Do you haggle? (Tenno bazaar...)

[novalery]

Quote

Bargaining or haggling is a type of negotiationin which the buyer and seller of a good or service debate the price and exact nature of a transaction. If the bargaining produces agreement on terms, the transaction takes place. Bargaining is an alternative pricing strategy to fixed prices. Optimally, if it costs the retailer nothing to engage and allow bargaining, s/he can divine the buyer's willingness to spend. It allows for capturing more consumer surplus as it allows price discrimination, a process whereby a seller can charge a higher price to one buyer who is more eager (by being richer or more desperate). Haggling has largely disappeared in parts of the world where the cost to haggle exceeds the gain to retailers for most common retail items. However, for expensive goods sold to uninformed buyers such as automobiles, bargaining can remain commonplace.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bargaining

i’ve read many post of players complaining about them being blocked by a seller/buyer because they put an offer plat less/more than the asking price. And some other thread complaining things that are rooted from a similar problem, i.e. buyer/seller starting to haggle. And some that view haggling as negative

 so i tried to look it up on why.. is haggling simply not part of their culture? The wikipedia article summarized that it might not. Yes. i know wikipedia should not be used as a base of scientific information but the bold line can be used as a hypothesis.. 

so i would like to ask

Where do you live? and do you think the bold line is true in your country/area?

How often did you guys/girls haggle in real live or in game?

if a buyer/seller try to haggle your price...

Do you feal that they’re being dishonest? That they’re trying to scam you?

Or do you feal that this is simply a normal occurrence? That haggling is part of trade?

 

Edited October 4, 2018 by novalery
Hopefully fixed the rich text problem

[-SR-Nellielsg]

There’s a difference between haggle and lowball..... e,g someone was selling an item for 500, but you lowball him for 50. Haggle is give a reasonable price that both the buyer and seller willingly consider to pay and sell for. I believe most players that were being ignored/block are lowballing rather than haggle.

[RetroNomad]

--------------
And to answer the topic. Nah. I welcome haggling. The smart seller lists in preparation for it and the smart buyer tries to get the best price.

Just don't try to knock 200 plat off a 400 item or I may laugh and ask you to be realistic.

Edited October 4, 2018 by RetroNomad

[krc473]

18 minutes ago, novalery said:

Where do you live? and do you think the bold line is true in your country/area?

This is entirely irrelevant. Where I live, people do haggle for some stuff. If I want to buy a new PC setup, I will haggle, if I want to buy a loaf of bread I won’t.

 

In WF, I am happy for people to haggle. There is no issue with suggesting mutually agreeable prices, lowballing is the problem. 

• Look at it this way: you are trying to sell a riven for 10k platinum. I offer you 200 platinum. Is that haggling? Would you negotiate with me? 
• How would your response differ if I offered 9.5k platinum?

 

Your whole post is fairly pointless, you have not differentiated between genuine negotiations and people just giving stupidly low prices.

• I have not encountered a single person that will not negotiate if you give a sensible offer. Even the people that say “no negotiations” will.

Edited October 4, 2018 by krc473
Autocorrect is useless.

[kgabor]

I can see why people who put a price for the item see it as a negative thing, they want to sell at a fix price which they consider optimal and you're wasting their time with haggling, as simple as that.

Imo. giving small discounts to frequent/good buyers can be justified but otherwise there is no reason for any seller to do so unless they themselves decide to lower their prices.

I also see it as something unnecessary to push when i'm buying and i never bother people with pmo-s or irrealistic prices.

[(PSN)Pizza_Parker]

I usually dont if i am the buyer.

If i want something, i will ask and buy for the price that i think its fair for both.

I wont haggle if i am selling a low cost mod, but i will with medium and high cost items.

Example: was trying to sell chroma p days after he came out, i said i wanted 350 plat for it.

2 players contacted me, the first one said: "sell it for 150".

Minutes later the other said: "can you do it for 300?"

You can see the difference in plat to understand who was thinking for himself and who was thinking about getting a fair deal without losing too much.

Now, this is not a rule, but those who made a fair deal with me are usually the ones that asked for it, not demanded like the first guy.

I would guess that when they demand a price people usually try to pressure you into selling to them, but i could be wrong.

[novalery]

36 minutes ago, krc473 said:

This is entirely irrelevant. Where I live, people do haggle for some stuff. If I want to buy a new PC setup, I will haggle, if I want to buy a loaf of bread I won’t.

 

In WF, I am happy for people to haggle. There is no issue with suggesting mutually agreeable prices, lowballing is the problem. 

• Look at it this way: you are trying to sell a riven for 10k platinum. I offer you 200 platinum. Is that haggling? Would you negotiate with me? 
• How would your response differ if I offered 9.5k platinum?

 

Your whole post is fairly pointless, you have not differentiated between genuine negotiations and people just giving stupidly low prices.

• I have not encountered a single person that will not negotiate if you give a sensible offer. Even the people that say “no negotiations” will.

I ask for your location and whether or not haggling is a common occurance in that area because the wikipedia article that i post suggest that there is a regional differences. I’m trying to find out whether this is true or not and whether this is to a point where haggling is consider as not the norm.

I’m trying to find out whether or not the interaction between those who think haggling is the norm and those who think it’s not the norm might be the reason why there is some friction in trade.

My questionaire is simply revolve around haggling. As mention above there is a difference between haggle and lowball. if you offer a price with an unrealistic differences then i’m pretty sure you would understand that that is not a haggle.

45 minutes ago, -SR-Nellielsg said:

There’s a difference between haggle and lowball..... e,g someone was selling an item for 500, but you lowball him for 50. Haggle is give a reasonable price that both the buyer and seller willingly consider to pay and sell for. I believe most players that were being ignored/block are lowballing rather than haggle.

I didn’t know the reasons why most player ignored/blocked others in trade. But i have read posts in this forum wondering why they got ignored simply because they ask for different price than the seller offer and one where he/she is simply were trying to confirm the asking price.

[krc473]

14 minutes ago, novalery said:

I’m trying to find out whether or not the interaction between those who think haggling is the norm and those who think it’s not the norm might be the reason why there is some friction in trade.

In my experience, the only issue really is people giving lowball offers. Haggling is not the issue. The problem is people wanting to get stuff far cheaper than everyone wants to sell it for.

 

Haggling is not the norm where I live. But it happens with certain retailers. 

• Do you haggle at the grocery store? No*
• Do you haggle at the petrol station? No
• Do you haggle at a car dealership? Yes

*I have negotiated more favourable pricing for fundraisers, not for profit things etc at the grocery store. (we get the stuff cheaper, but we promote your company kind of thing) This is where "goodwill" comes in.

 

You are trying to determine if something that depends primarily on the retailer is dependent on the country people live in. It really isn't. Most retailers are not open to negotiation on price. But for expensive goods and/or services people tend to be more accepting of haggling.

 

Do you understand why I think that particular question is irrelevant?

Edited October 4, 2018 by krc473

[novalery]

1 minute ago, krc473 said:

In my experience, the only issue really is people giving lowball offers. Haggling is not the issue. The problem is people wanting to get stuff far cheaper than everyone wants to sell it for.

 

Haggling is not the norm where I live. But it happens with certain retailers. 

• Do you haggle at the grocery store? No*
• Do you haggle at the petrol station? No
• Do you haggle at a car dealership? Yes

*I have negotiated more favourable pricing for fundraisers, not for profit things etc at the grocery store. (we get the stuff cheaper, but we promote your company kind of thing)

 

You are trying to determine if something that depends primarily on the retailer is dependent on the country people live in. It really isn't. Most retailers are not open to negotiation on price. But for expensive goods and/or services people tend to be more accepting of haggling.

 

Do you understand why I think that particular question is irrelevant?

and this is why i ask the question. as you mention in certain retailers haggling still happen. and according to your experience in the area/country where you lived in haggling tend to be acceptable for expensive goods and service. but where i come from haggling for cheaper stuff like usb cables or even a taxi ride is relatively normal. it could be perhaps because the relative % of retailer that accept haggling where i come is still higher then where you are. a comparison study for others perhaps.

hopefully you also understand why i like to know the possible correlation between different region/country/area to how a person perceive haggling in general.

[Calistin]

I don't haggle.  I use the market website to check price low to high and just put stuff for sale in the low range which IMO means I cut out the haggling to sell stuff at the lowest price I feel is fair.  Same thing when I look to buy something I look at the warframe market and look to buy for the low price range, same as I use when selling.

I am not greedy

You can then buy or not when I am selling or sell or not when I am buying.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

3 hours ago, novalery said:

Do you feal that they’re being dishonest?

well, most people nowadays use the Warframe. market, but I don't bother as it's rare I trade anyway, and I can usually get by with haggling. normally in everyday settings, at least here in the UK, Haggling is reserved for transactions between friends/family, as well as expensive purchases like a new or used car. I have managed to apply it successfully in other areas before though; I've haggled with my ISP on occasions where their service has been sub-par and I see what they can do to make it up to me. sometimes it does end up being an ultimatum like "you either lower my payment for your sub-par service or I walk", and 9/10 times I come out on top. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that if you're confident enough to try it, you'd be surprised what you can get out of people if you haggle.

i don't feel people are dishonest, as I try to look at it from their perspective: they want something cheap, so would I. they want to make Grofit, so would I, but the very nature of trading sees these forces collide and so you have to compromise. I usually just think of two numbers: a price and a fallback. when selling I advertise for the price to try and get the full amount I want, but I keep the other number close to my chest and use it if the other agrees to it in advance, or if the trade is in jeopardy. then it boils down to willpower: the sellers will to earn profit, vs. the buyers will to pay. ideally the latter should be higher, but some traders get greedy, and it can be their downfall.

there's certainly an art to "wheeler dealing" as it's sometimes called where I'm from, and it takes time to master. I am by no means an expert on it though, if it's even possible to be an expert haggler when you consider each individual has different limits to what they are willing to compromise at.

[Erytroxylin]

Generally, I don't bother. It's not worth my time over a few plat. If someone tries to haggle with me I just tell them the price is set and they can take it or leave it.

Edited October 4, 2018 by Erytroxylin

[(PSN)death404]

I sold niche vinyl records for about a decade with a similar market in that, at the time, there were no set prices (pre discogs) so it was valued by the buyer and seller and up to us to come to an agreement.

I use the same tactics here: if a price is listed and I want it I generally pay it with no haggling. If no price is listed I decide what I'll pay then ask the seller what he wants for it. If close or cheaper I buy, otherwise I counter offer. If their offer is too cheap I offer them a bit more. People remember things like that and although I've only been playing for months I'm already seeing, and buying from, regular sellers.

Never lowball someone. You'll get blacklisted so fast.

[Rustmonger42]

5 hours ago, krc473 said:

This is entirely irrelevant.

 

It most definitely is not. In my experience there are cultures around the world where they haggle for absolutely everything.... no price is set in stone. Whereas in other cultures the price is the price and you either pay it or you don't.

 

Personally, as someone in the US, I will only haggle if I am only slightly short on plat, say 480 for an asking price of 500. Otherwise, I expect to pay the asking price and offering any less would be considered insulting.

[krc473]

3 hours ago, Rustmonger42 said:

In my experience there are cultures around the world where they haggle for absolutely everything.... no price is set in stone. Whereas in other cultures the price is the price and you either pay it or you don't.

I understand that. But I have not found a single region in Warframe people don’t haggle. I have put something at 20 platinum and been offered 10 in the NA region. (I even had someone offer reduced plat with prime parts for my item) I am just not sure how much someone’s country will change this. If people think they can get a better deal, they usually ask.

Edited October 4, 2018 by krc473

[(PSN)Pizza_Parker]

16 hours ago, novalery said:

I didn’t know the reasons why most player ignored/blocked others in trade. But i have read posts in this forum wondering why they got ignored simply because they ask for different price than the seller offer and one where he/she is simply were trying to confirm the asking price.

I was once blocked for not accepting someone's haggle  ¯\_(ツ)_/ ¯

[novalery]

thank you for the answers so far

so far the following data is what get from your posts. sorry if i fill the table incorrectly. all of you guys have a great discussions, so its hard for me to really understand what your answers of the questions .. its not really necessary, i only need the rest of the information, but i'm gonna put your name in the list. do let me know if you think i don't have to.

(v : yes, x : not)

name                 II   haggle/don't      II haggle in wf is acceptable    II     country/region    II             haggling in said country/region        II          how often you haggle  

• RetroNomad     II       v                      II                        v                        II                 ?               II                     ?                                                   II               ?            
• krc473               II       v                      II                        v                        II                 ?               II            has largely disappeared                        II            rarely
• kgabor               II       x                      II                        x                        II                 ?               II                    ?                                                     II                 ?          
• Pizza_Parker    II       v                      II                        v                        II                 ?               II                     ?                                                    II             almost never           
• Calistin              II       x                      II                        ?                        II                 ?               II                     ?                                                    II            never            
• robotwars7        II       v                      II                        v                        II             UK                II           has largely disappeared                          II             rarely
• Erytroxylin         II       x                      II                        ?                        II             ?                   II                    ?                                                     II             ?
• death404           II       v                      II                        ?                        II             ?                   II                    ?                                                      II             often
• Rustmonger42  II       x                      II                        x                         II             US                II                    ?                                                      II             almost never   
• Novalery           II       v                      II                        v                         II             SEA               II                    Still exist                                          II             sometimes   

for others who like to fill in their take on haggling, can you please answer these questions first before typing down you thought in your post. it'll help a lot.

1. Where do you live? and do you think the line "Haggling has largely disappeared" is true in your country/area?

2. How often did you guys/girls haggle in real live or in game?

3. if a buyer/seller try to haggle your price...

> Do you feel that they’re being dishonest? That they’re trying to scam you? that it is unacceptable.

Or

>do you feel that this is simply a normal occurrence? That haggling is part of trade? that it is acceptable.

 

thank you

Edited October 5, 2018 by novalery
forgot to put my answer

[Zi-Sui]

1. I live in Finland, north europe and haggling has disappeared from my area as far as I can see it. But then again, I didn't haggle for my PC nor do I own a car.

2. I've never haggled in real life nor in game.

3. If somebody in-game tries to haggle me, I feel it's just normal since we're from different cultures and I heard arabs like to haggle. Which is fine by me.

[kgabor]

1. Hungary.

It mostly was and maybe still is in marketplaces, not sure since i'm not visiting such places anymore and the part about haggling is a childhood memory.

2. I tend to avoid people irl. (yes, i'm one of those special snowflakes, lol)so there were not many cases when i could even haggle to begin with but i did it once when i bought something from the net, i got a kind of salty response to that so i have not felt like doing it again.

3. Not necessarily, i just think it's a waste of time and thus shouldn't be the norm especially in a chat room because i'm a slow typer and don't like to get into long, drawn out discussions. (not to mention, my english is far from perfect)

I think that personal experience has more relevance in this question than cultural differences when someone forms a personal viewpoint on trading in trade chat as it's less of a traditional form of trading and in such, different rules apply.

[Artekkor]

I always haggle if i feel the price isnt quiet what i expected. Im a WTB hunter, who sells things to people that need them. So i already hunt for people who want things for cheap usually. Before selling the item i always check nexus data for average price and ready to sell the item for up to 70% of its' price, but not less (save for rare exceptions) and will haggle for it. If the buyer does not agree - we depart on peaceful note.

So far haven't met anyone getting toxic when haggling.

[Goodwill]

Always haggle.

If player tries selling something for 500p, I'll offer 400p.
If they refuse, I up the offer to 400p and a prayer every 2nd day of the week.
If that doesn't work, 400p, prayer every 2nd day of the week plus I'll burn them some incense those days except on Sunday.
If they are still being stubborn, I'll offer 500p, plus I'll send prayers to their inbox everyday and pictures of my incense shrine.
Then usually they'll lower the price down to 450p just to get rid of me.

Edited October 5, 2018 by Goodwill

[(PSN)Eluminary]

I do not.

 

I don't make offers, anyone with a wts without a price listed in the auction will not hear from me.

 

I have always wanted a more formal bazaar kiosk kinda trading system.  Where you can put in stuff you want to sell at what price set it and forget it.  Also the same kiosk you could browse other sellers and buy directly through that.  I've seen this in other games I always wished warframe would implement it.  I would participate on the economy alot more if they ever did.

 

It's largely not a popular idea with the more active traders, in game now, who generally like the aggressive haggling/tricking people who don't know the value of things.

[AzureTerra]

Not generally. I like to know what they are selling it for and if i find it a reasonable price i'll buy it and if not i'll thank them for their time and move on. Asking me to "offer" is a quick way to have me lose interest

[(PSN)Pizza_Parker]

On 2018-10-05 at 6:22 AM, novalery said:

 

1. Where do you live? and do you think the line "Haggling has largely disappeared" is true in your country/area?

2. How often did you guys/girls haggle in real live or in game?

3. if a buyer/seller try to haggle your price...

> Do you feel that they’re being dishonest? That they’re trying to scam you? that it is unacceptable.

Or

>do you feel that this is simply a normal occurrence? That haggling is part of trade? that it is acceptable.

 

thank you

1) brazil, and if you consider asking for a discount without demanding a price as haggling, then yeah, otherwise no. (But this is only when it comes to my personal life, i can see it happening with street sellers.

2) in real life: never, only if you count discounts as haggling, then its every 3 or 4 weeks when i go out to buy stuff or eat outside.

3) eh, in real life i would not feel confortable accepting it. I accept it ingame cause its not real money, so i dont mind much.

[Orblit]

My version of "haggling" is usually just me trying to reach that meme plat count, or just to reach an even number.

 

Say I have a Bullet Dance stance back when it was going for 50plat each...and I have 563 plat...I'd ask for the 50, then try to get them to agree to 37.  Provided they didn't instantly block me after the first counter offer.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Orblit
Added more