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Valkyr Rework?


Crystal_Ignition
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does she need a rework?
Her 1 is rarely ever used, few players use her 3 and in high level areas even a maxed armored agility and steel fiber means you have to closely watch her health (outside of hysteria)
but what do people like about valkyr? her 4th, when asking people it always came back to hysteria
So here is my rework suggestion it incorporates her current playstyle, enhancing it with hysteria at its core, the thing people like about valkyr
 

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(1)
Passive

Complete Rework
Valkyr gains energy per hp lost as a ((% of health points lost) / 2)


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(2)
hysteria

when exiting hysteria % of damage redirected into a stored in a buff as bonus armour for valkyr, this amour is represented as a energy streak from
valkyrs arm to her shoulder
maximum armour increase is 600 but the buff can store infinitely
stored amount is drained per second, drain amount increases incrementally per second drained. Damage received also drains the stored amount

Power
Strength: damage % stored
Duration: armour increase
Buff is stored in a similar manner to nidus so it gets its own icon and is not removed by nulls only drained faster

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(3)
Paralysis -> Primal threat

Complete rework: reworked paralysis moved to an augment at the bottom of the post

Drains -> disables shields to create a zone spreading outward, enemies within this zone are forced to attack valkyr,
Initial spread works like novas 4, (press to deploy then can move around while its expanding)

Increases valkyrs max health (not restoring health) for each enemy within the zone, killing enemies within the zone with finishers heals for % of max hp
Pressing 3 again stops the field spread adding to ability duration based on valkyrs remaining sheilds and unused spread
Press again to stop the shield drain, once the expansion stops press 3 to redeploy it

Power
Strength: increases hp gain and life steal
Duration: effects how long the ability lasts

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(4)
Warcry -> Wolfs Cry

Complete rework: Splits warcry into 3 modes

War Animal: % of damage externally received is redirected to next attack (primary, secondary, melee, exalted) as base damage (before any multipliers).
Redirection is calculated after hysteria damage recording

Apex Predator: Killing enemies with finishers increases valkyrs melee attack speed (X2 for hysteria), animation speed, and sprint speed

Beast Rage: Killing an enemy adds additional power strength to the next activated ability

Can be applied to multiple abilities, cannot be applied to one ability twice
If told to the engine will simply deny the target (keeping the buff ready to go as it wasnt applied), unless however the previously applied buff, isnt maxed. 
Abilities that have beast rage gain a fire effect on them, size of the flame reflects if their max or not (so only 3 flame designs needed)
(1 for partially full, 1 for full and one for any amount stored but mode deactivated)
Power strength increase is stored as a buff so that recasting the ability does not remove it, also effects the whole ability so all modes benefit

Pressing 2 switches between each modes, holding 2 channels the current mode and removing it from being selected allowing 2 modes (max) to be activate
Combined names:
War Predator
War Beast
Apex Rage
Hold 2 again to deactivate channel

Main color is chosen energy color of valkyrs talons while highlights corresponding the activated mode the highlights, (perhaps a wolf tail?)
Blue: War Animal
Green: Apex Predator
Red: Beast Rage
PS: War Animal does not factor in hysteria exit damage because it counts as self damage and thus cannot be redirected


War Animal
Strength: % damage
Duration: Damage is stored until entering null, out of bounds, exiting mission or used for an attack

Apex Predator
Strength: Attack speed, animation speed, sprint speed amount
Duration: How long each stack is stored

Beast Rage
Strength: Maximum power strength stored and increase amount (always 10 kills to max)
Duration: How long each buff lasts

^^ values are stored as a buff when switching, even health increase, they just cant be added to or take effect until the mode is reactivated ^^

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(5)
Ripline

Hold 1 : Same as current rip line
Press 1: Shoots a ball of tether that upon impact wraps around an enemy stunning them and turning them into a bound enemy opening them up to finishers.
Enemies under the effect if bound or partial bind as receive a corrosive proc, if a bound enemy dies the tether explodes outwards partially wrapping
onto nearby enemies inflicting them with partial bind (finisher and corrosive but no explosion or stun)

Holding 1 on a bound enemy or partial bind rip lines pulls the enemy to valkyr, inflicting a finisher (custom animation) dealing X3 hysteria claw
damage as a slash proc (the slash proc is applied as finisher damage)
If a bound enemy is hit with any finisher the range is tripled but the X3 slash proc is only applied via ripline finisher
Bound non massive air enemies drop to the ground

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(6)
Changed Augments

Eternal war: Also stops armour buff drain for 2 seconds, enemies killed by finishers grant additional energy regen when exiting hysteria.
Regeneration starts slow and then increases per second for each enemy killed with a finisher for 10 seconds

Hysterical Assault: Doing an hysterical assault on a bound enemies produces the same result and holding 1
activates all Wolfs cry modes when in hysteria, increases effects of apex predator on hysteria, doubles beast rage effects on hysteria

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(7)
Added augments

Pack leader: allies within a 20 meter radius gain the active ability of wolfs cry
The adopted abilities work off valkyrs power stats

Primal Scream: when deploying primal threat valkyr stands her ground and lets out a primal scream sending a second independent wave, holding 3
releases the primal scream without redeploying or effecting primal threat.
Wave knocks enemies onto the ground, draining their health and bounding them to the ground for 3 seconds, drained health is added to valkyr as energy.
Power range effects spread radius and strength effects energy gained

Optional: grandeur of the scream's visual and sound effects is enhanced when in hysteria
 

If your reading this, thank you. i hope the effort ive put into this suggestion shines through, thank you for giving it the time of day and i would love to see opinions on it below

Edited by Crystal_Ignition
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I'll say it one time and one time only: NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

keep out 1 of my favorite rames out of this, please!
there are other frames out there that need some real change, Valkyr is PERFECT AS SHE IS and is amazing! she is immortal, quite literally, and her 4 isn't even needed for that

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I don't think your idea's of all the wolf related stuff would really fit that well. They are great ideas (in my opinion anyway) but Valkyr is pretty much a cat themed warframe. One of her helmets, The Baset helm https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Valkyr_Bastet_Helmet is a reference to Baset the Egyptian goddess of cats  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bastet

Since your idea's clash with the original theme a lot I suggest using the wolf tail and your other wolf themed idea's on an entirely new warfame. I know it might be a lot of work to come up with one from scratch, but you've almost did that already in this post. Just needs a little more work really.

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Только что, koryfunny сказал:

I'll say it one time and one time only: NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

keep out 1 of my favorite rames out of this, please!
there are other frames out there that need some real change, Valkyr is PERFECT AS SHE IS and is amazing! she is immortal, quite literally, and her 4 isn't even needed for that

PFFF. Прошу. She NEED rework. 3 of her skills are bad/useless and Warcry is effective only with augment. Immortality ruins hysteria, Paralysis is a waste of power slot, Ripline is only effective as mobility tool. She have shields and toons of evergy with nowhere to spend it, cus she got no skills to use. Just press warcry and you are done.

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I do think she needs work, but I'm not sure this is right for her. 

I agree with @Agentcheese that this would be better suited to a new frame concept. Frame Reworks need to keep the theme of the frame and their playstyle intact. DE also mentioned a while back they were going to void completely replacing abilities whenever possible, and only adjust the ability as needed to make it functional. I assume because it's far easier and cheaper from a development standpoint.

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thanks for the replies
though reducing the suggestion to just tweaks i would say
1: ripline brings air units such as ospreys to the ground and half the animation time, it just takes to dam long

2: increase paralysis base range and make it actually knock enemies on their asses instead of slightly discomforting them

3: make hysterical assault a part of the ability instead of an augment and when melee 3.0 comes out more ways to utilize her claws over sliding

4: something when executing enemies on the ground to give paralysis and rip line a bit more meaning to it (i would suggest energy simply because its more fun for new players and vets)

now moving past that and turning this into its own warframe, i wold love that as much as a valk rework. i dont mean to toot my own horn but i think its fun the suggestion above
so should i leave it as it is for now?

Edited by Crystal_Ignition
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A good percentage of my time is spent playing Valkyr and I can generally out damage and out kill if I set out to do so....

But I don't think that means she doesn't need a rework. A frame can be fun, powerful and have a use, but still need a rework. Just because they don't need it as much as other frames (Wukong) doesn't mean that they should forever go untouched. I don't think that it means that EVERYTHING in the kit needs to change either @koryfunny

A tweak I would define as adding minor additional effects or statistics to abilities as they are.

A tweak is technically a rework, on a smaller scale as reworks by definition are to make changes especially to make something more up to date. For some reason people fear this word like it means uprooting what makes the Warframe and changing it into something else. "Revamp" may have better connotation, but ultimately what ever you call it I like to think it's just a spectrum of change toward improvement.

 

1 hour ago, koryfunny said:

she is immortal, quite literally, and her 4 isn't even needed for that

I think it's fine to enjoy and love her as she is, heck I do. But I think this statement in of itself is pretty telling. 

Her abilities don't really work together....and the more experienced you are the less abilities you need. Unless one simply wants to go for Endurance Hysteria, Obex Paralysis, or Spiderman Ripline, but these are pretty niche exceptions to just.....swinging wildly and not dying, Especially in terms of core gameplay/effectiveness.

 

Anywho, in terms of the rework presented itself. It's a bit hard to follow. I can't tell if you're changing her abilities around or just listing off changes. Context makes me think changing her abilities around. 

There are many great ideas here, but ultimately they feel out of place in terms of what the ability does (each of them seem to have too many steps and not feel properly placed key wise) and the theme is far left of Valkyr. I think you're better off making a wolf frame instead of trying to paint Valkitty as one.

 

If you are interested in how I would revamp Valk, I'd love your feedback 🙂

Spoiler

 

 

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1 hour ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

She's good, but nowhere near perfect. A Warframe is perfect when all four abilities are fully usable and serve a purpose 

Vauban. Press 3 and 4. LoL 😄

 

 

29 minutes ago, GPrime96 said:

You know Valkyr’s a berserker and not Wukong or a wolf?

Are you really gona argue about naming things in a rework concept? It could be named as "giga lazor out of bum" and it doesn't even matter. What maters is Valk is sucky "press 4 to play" frame and if anything Garuda just took a solid chunk of Valkyrs identity in just her passive.

Valk needs a rework. Stop crying about naming conventions.

 

Edited by deothor
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7 minutes ago, deothor said:

Are you really gona argue about naming things in a rework concept? It could be named as "giga lazor out of bum" and it doesn't even matter. What maters is Valk is sucky "press 4 to play" frame and if anything Garuda just took a solid chunk of Valkyrs identity in just her passive.

Valk needs a rework. Stop crying about naming conventions.

This Rework is something you would see in the Fan Concepts. Not something you use as a rework since this would make her abilities make less sense than she got now.

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7 minutes ago, GPrime96 said:

This Rework is something you would see in the Fan Concepts. Not something you use as a rework since this would make her abilities make less sense than she got now.

And why is that? Cause you don't see her being ok after the rework? Because her reworked kit doesn't make too much sense? What about her current abilities, do they make more sense? A grappling hook on a frame that never invest in range makes sense? You know that if we'd take some logic into warframe, a solid half of abilities in warframe make no sense what-so-ever? Either way, you commented about the naming sense OP used. Now you try to wriggle and find other argument to  oppose to the rework idea. Pathetic. 

Edited by deothor
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2 minutes ago, deothor said:

And why is that? Cause you don't see her being ok after the rework? Because her reworked kit doesn't make too much sense? What about her current abilities, do they make more sense? A grappling hook on a frame that never invest in range makes sense? You know that if we'd take some logic into warframe, a solid half of abilities in warframe make no sense what-so-ever? Either way, you commented about the naming sense OP used. Now you try to wriggle and find other argument to  oppose to the rework idea. Pathetic. 

Does getting rid half of a Frame’s abilities and putting in different abilities that don’t fit a Frame’s theme make sense?

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9 minutes ago, GPrime96 said:

different abilities that don’t fit a Frame’s theme make sense?

From my perspective Valkyrie has no theme. She's supposed to be some kind of berserker but WHAT THE HELL DOES BERSERKER NEED A GODDAMN GRAPPLING HOOK? Is she a.... hooker? badum-tssss. 

Only 2 out of her 4 abilities make sense berserker-wise. And even then only 1 is used for the most part. 

---

My point was to stop with disagreeing with the rework just because weird naming sense. Suddenly you came up with the idea that her new abilities wouldn't make sense. If you dislike the idea, just say it rather than sneer and wriggle trying to find just anything to belittle the idea. 

 

Edited by deothor
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1 hour ago, deothor said:

From my perspective Valkyrie has no theme. She's supposed to be some kind of berserker but WHAT THE HELL DOES BERSERKER NEED A GODDAMN GRAPPLING HOOK? Is she a.... hooker? badum-tssss. 

Melee frame needs a gap closer. See it as a pounce like the cat visuals or a grand leap done by the winged Valkyries of lore. Make it into a "practical"/real thing and it becomes a grappling hook.

1 hour ago, deothor said:

Only 2 out of her 4 abilities make sense berserker-wise. And even then only 1 is used for the most part. 

War Cry makers total sense, burning your defenses to stun your foes makes sense, going into a blind rage with a risk if you don't annihilate the enemies around you makes sense. Add in a thematic gap closer that could reasonably be closer to Hysterical Assault and you have a berserker in the world of Warframe.

2 hours ago, deothor said:

What maters is Valk is sucky "press 4 to play" frame

If you only know Valkyr as a press 4 to win frame, you haven't played her.

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Valkyr fills a gap and no mistake. In the frame hidden away is a setup that requires no energy, no buffs to damage, range, duration or efficiency and yet  is a frame that can do great damage simply by surviving. Especially at very high levels.

IF there were to be any changes I would like to see something that offered something along the berserker theme. Her 4 is strong, her 2 and 3 are OK but nothing more and her 1 is i would suggest one of the least used individual abilities in game of any frame, so I think there is wiggle room in there for change but I fear the day it happens

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Seeing how little Valkyr brings little to a team, I think it makes the most sense to change/improve Warcry. Lower the strength needed for maximum slow on enemies to ~160%, and make it recastable. You could also make her 1 track multiple enemies and have it yoink and slam them on the ground in front of Valkyr, rather than flying off to god knows where. Of course it would be better to replace her 1, but elaborate frame changes virtually never happen.

Edited by Neightrix
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41 minutes ago, Neightrix said:

Seeing how little Valkyr brings little to a team, I think it makes the most sense to change/improve Warcry. Lower the strength needed for maximum slow on enemies to ~160%, and make it recastable. You could also make her 1 track multiple enemies and have it yoink and slam them on the ground in front of Valkyr, rather than flying off to god knows where. Of course it would be better to replace her 1, but elaborate frame changes virtually never happen.

How little she brings to a team? Are you kidding? 

My umbral valkyr gives everyone in my range a 137.5% armour and melee speed boost.  Not to be sniffed at.  And that buff stays up as long as I'm in warcry which is almost forever given how mobile she is moving from one enemy to another.  I then usually out kill everyone on my team using melee only.

She's an unbelievable mobile tank.  I've got over 4k armour in warcry and if my health does take a hit I just pop into hysteria for a a few seconds and bam, back to full health again (which is over 1k by the way).

For me warcry beats hysteria all day long.  Great team buffs and no danger of killing yourself when warcry does run out, unlike hysteria.  She's fast and mobile and looks great.

Her 1 could have more functionality but is handy for swooping in on mobs.  Her 3 though is a pretty good oh S#&$ button for when you do get mobbed in a corner, just stun them and then slaughter them.

I'm in love with warcry valkyr and sacrificial build parasecis just now running berserker, maiming strike, blood rush and body count.  Red crit everywhere.  You're like a rampaging blender of destruction, nothing stands a chance.  Try it, you'll be impressed. 

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21 minutes ago, (XB1)Hyperion Rexx said:

How little she brings to a team? Are you kidding? 

Not kidding. Put her on a team with a DPS. What does she do? Well, she lives, and melee is fun and powerful within its range - but many warframes will trash enemies without knowing a Valkyr is present. Gara, Icy Avalanche Frost, Trinity, all add more survivability. To be fair, it's more a problem with the power level of the game than Valkyr herself. Huge armor numbers used to be a lot more valuable. I really like Valkyr but I don't feel like I'd be honest if I said she brings enough to a team. And I don't think my suggestion is a mind-blowing improvement, just trying to make her do better what she already does. Warcry needs a LOT more strength to slow enemies than Molecular Prime, and doesn't have the other benefits of that ability. Additionally, if you try building for the slow effect it basically kills her other best builds.

Edited by Neightrix
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3 minutes ago, Neightrix said:

Not kidding. Put her on a team with a DPS. What does she do? Well, she lives, and melee is fun - but many warframes will trash enemies without knowing a Valkyr is present. Gara, Icy Avalanche Frost, Trinity, all add more survivability. To be fair, it's more a problem with the power level of the game than Valkyr herself. Huge armor numbers used to be a lot more valuable. I really like Valkyr but I don't feel like I'd be honest if I said she brings enough to a team. And I don't think my suggestion is a mind-blowing improvement, just trying to make her do better what she already does. Warcry needs a LOT more strength to slow enemies than Molecular Prime, and doesn't have the other benefits of that ability. Additionally, if you try building for the slow effect it basically kills her other best builds.

Put most frames on a team with a high dps like saryn or mesa and they don't do much though.  Are there tanker frames, yes.  I love gara.  Inaros is immortal, nidus almost so.  Rhino takes some killing.  But so what?  What you're asking for is power creep - oh look such and such frame kills enemies without even seeing them, buff this frame so it can do that too.   And ask a rhino what they think about a 137% armour buff, or saryn for that matter and I bet they'll be in favour.

Also, you don't need to buff everything for your teammates to be a useful member.  Trinity is the ultimate support frame but doesn't kill much.  Chroma and inaros are both selfish with their abilities.  Saryn will kill the whole map but doesn't give you any buffs.  Volt can give you a speed buff that sends you crashing into walls but can also kill the map.  Different frames for different jobs and play styles.    Valkyr is fun, you have to be active and be able to move fast, she gives better buffs than a lot of frames and she can kill enemies for fun while being very tanky.  She's not the highest dps (although i often am) and there are frames that have more survivability  (although not many) but she has a good balance of both.

And why would you want to build for the slow effect? You want enemies coming at you fast so you can keep warcry and your melee counter up.  Slowva is pretty niche imo, speedva has more use, especially in defence and survival which are the most popular mission types.  

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Valkyr does require some changes, but I don't think they need to be huge. She doesn't need to be "made better", just given more variety.

 

Her 1 is...bad, but fun. Just allow it to benefit from melee mods like Khora/Gara's lashes do, and extend the re-cast timer to maybe 5 seconds, 1-second is way too short. Another option would be to let using it count for the combo counter. If we're worried about flinging enemies too far, then perhaps holding the button pulls Valkyr to the enemy so it could have more uses. I dunno, there's a lot that could be done to it without totally changing it, but really any of these would make it more useful.

Her 2 is fine. The eternal war augment is good. Maybe it's a little overcosted at 100, but like...it sees use.

Her 3 has no real identity. Valk doesn't usually have shields to use it, usually kills faster without the melee finisher. The damage is bad. This is the only ability of hers I'd really say could use a complete re-design. The idea is clearly supposed to be like, borrow some huge overshields and kill people by spamming 3 for 5 energy a pop, but as implemented it doesn't work and the idea is really clearly dated in terms of design. I'm not sure what to replace it with. What do we think she needs?

Her 4 is something I am worried will get nerfed if she is ever reworked. Please don't remove my busted as S#&$ i-frames 😞

Edited by GreyMaiden
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