Iron skin vs Nullys

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

I'd like to advocate a change between iron skin and other abilities like inaros' ult... With nullifiers.

Instead of iron skin instantly being dispelled. I'd like to suggest that instead iron skin loses say 5% health every second he's in the Nullys bubble. When he's effected by the Nullys alternative units like scrambus, he instead loses 10% health from iron skin, instead of instant dispel.

[Firetempest]

Or shoot the satellite.

[Kuestenjung]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Firetempest:

Or shoot the satellite.

Not allways so easy due to glitches or weird spawns, but nevertheless you are right.

@OP: What are we supposed to discuss here, except the fact the are called Nullifier and not Reducers?

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

57 minutes ago, Kuestenjung said:

Not allways so easy due to glitches or weird spawns, but nevertheless you are right.

@OP: What are we supposed to discuss here, except the fact the are called Nullifier and not Reducers?

Some abilities shouldn't be nullified merely decreased/weakened. For example, mutation stacks, Rumblers, etc.

[SweetJackal]

The strength of Iron Skin isn't in its damage shield, it is in the limited status immunity it provides.  Immunity to knockdown and toxic effects are very powerful and having the Nullifier only degrade or damage Iron Skin effectively removes the enemy as a remote threat to the player.

 

Inaros's 4 is already redundant, his base armor and health are high enough to use basic mods to give him insane levels of effective health and his kit includes a good amount of life steal which can be compounded with a life steal melee weapon.

 

Not that Nullifiers are really good for the game in the first place as they don't fulfill the purpose they were put in for.  They were something that fit in seamlessly into the basic structure of meta strategies and required little change to deal with, if any at all.  Further neutering them serves no purpose, doubly so when that change doesn't assist the frames that are gutted by a nullifier but instead seeks to improve frames already suited to hunting them and not really hurt by them, merely inconvenienced by them.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

32 minutes ago, SweetJackal said:

The strength of Iron Skin isn't in its damage shield, it is in the limited status immunity it provides.  Immunity to knockdown and toxic effects are very powerful and having the Nullifier only degrade or damage Iron Skin effectively removes the enemy as a remote threat to the player.

 

Inaros's 4 is already redundant, his base armor and health are high enough to use basic mods to give him insane levels of effective health and his kit includes a good amount of life steal which can be compounded with a life steal melee weapon.

 

Not that Nullifiers are really good for the game in the first place as they don't fulfill the purpose they were put in for.  They were something that fit in seamlessly into the basic structure of meta strategies and required little change to deal with, if any at all.  Further neutering them serves no purpose, doubly so when that change doesn't assist the frames that are gutted by a nullifier but instead seeks to improve frames already suited to hunting them and not really hurt by them, merely inconvenienced by them.

The stalker being able to dispel abilities... Makes since. Grineer having magnetic proc doors draining energy makes since. Magnetic anomolies makes since. Nullifiers being able to instantly drop iron skin but only reducing mutation stacks or draining Rumblers/shadows health... Doesn't make since. Some abilities I can understand being nullified, but some abilities like iron skin being instantly destroyed doesn't.

Just like khora ult isn't instantly destroyed when it hits a Nully... Instead the Nully only destroys the part it touches leaving the rest intact.

Hallowed ground should be effected similarly as well as cataclysm and many other Warframe abilities.

It shouldn't be an instant destruction of certain abilities.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

As a Nidus player I support this. Our stacks drain over time while in nully bubble. The fact that things like iron skin and warding halo just vanish upon contact is kinda bs.

[aswitz87]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

As a Nidus player I support this. Our stacks drain over time while in nully bubble. The fact that things like iron skin and warding halo just vanish upon contact is kinda bs.

Compare how long it takes your stacks to build compared to iron skin.  At least in this case it’s balanced.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

26 minutes ago, aswitz87 said:

Compare how long it takes your stacks to build compared to iron skin.  At least in this case it’s balanced.

Nidus stacks significantly increase damage output. Iron skin doesn't. Nullys need to react to both abilities equally.

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

1 hour ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

The stalker being able to dispel abilities... Makes since. Grineer having magnetic proc doors draining energy makes since. Magnetic anomolies makes since. Nullifiers being able to instantly drop iron skin but only reducing mutation stacks or draining Rumblers/shadows health... Doesn't make since. Some abilities I can understand being nullified, but some abilities like iron skin being instantly destroyed doesn't.

Just like khora ult isn't instantly destroyed when it hits a Nully... Instead the Nully only destroys the part it touches leaving the rest intact.

Hallowed ground should be effected similarly as well as cataclysm and many other Warframe abilities.

It shouldn't be an instant destruction of certain abilities.

I actually only use my min duration Rift Torrent build against Corpus because Cataclysm is worth less than a politician's word against nullies.  

You guys got my support

[Obviousclone]

If you are nothing without the iron suit then you shouldn't have it

[(XBOX)peter1187]

4 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

I'd like to advocate a change between iron skin and other abilities like inaros' ult... With nullifiers.

Instead of iron skin instantly being dispelled. I'd like to suggest that instead iron skin loses say 5% health every second he's in the Nullys bubble. When he's effected by the Nullys alternative units like scrambus, he instead loses 10% health from iron skin, instead of instant dispel.

I'd rather it stays the same. 

Way too many unskilled people use Rhino/Prime as a crutch.  I wouldn't want to make things easier for them.

Edited November 28, 2018 by (XB1)peter1187

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

1 hour ago, Obviousclone said:

If you are nothing without the iron suit then you shouldn't have it

I have a iron Gunner build in which barely use it. Regardless. It's broken as all get out allowing a nullifiers to nullify some Warframe abilities instantly like iron skin, but only reduce other Warframe abilities like Rumblers etc. 

Nullifiers need a balance pass. Scrambus and comba do too.

 

 

Edited November 28, 2018 by (PS4)big_eviljak

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

1 hour ago, (XB1)peter1187 said:

I'd rather it stays the same. 

Way too many unskilled people use Rhino/Prime as a crutch.  I wouldn't want to make things easier for them.

So leave a broken aspect of the game broken because some people play a certain way that u don't like? 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

wouldn't be a terrible idea. I'm all for anything that makes steamrolling nullies even easier than it already is, though DE still want them to be something of a threat, so i doubt we'll get it.

[SilvaDreams]

There is a big difference between Rhino's Iron Skin and Nidus' mutation stacks.

Rhino uses his void energy to maintain the barrier around him thus nullifiers remove it instantly.

As for Nidus he is biological, the void energy is used simply to guide the mutations and biological matter he creates thus is can't simply be stripped away but it does mean he loses their use over time.

[NocheLuz]

5 hours ago, SilvaDreams said:

There is a big difference between Rhino's Iron Skin and Nidus' mutation stacks.

Rhino uses his void energy to maintain the barrier around him thus nullifiers remove it instantly.

As for Nidus he is biological, the void energy is used simply to guide the mutations and biological matter he creates thus is can't simply be stripped away but it does mean he loses their use over time.

Void energy? wut? All Warframe ability are from it's mutated Armor. You don't need void energy to use them. Else, Operator energy pool should be able to replenish Warframe energy pool without the using of Zenurik. Also, without the void energy any Nidus stack he has will also go away... like how biological animals are go away after the bait is gone.

[RX-3DR]

Imagine Nidus losing all of his stacks instantly, how long would it take for him to get it back? Now, you lost your Iron Skin, how long does it take for you to get it back? Not a level comparison. 

How would it work with buffs? Do we apply across the board and drain out the duration of buff skills? What about things like Snowglobe, do we slowly drain those out too? Cataclysm? Or is this just a thing we implement only for Rhino because Rhino is weak trash and incapable of taking hits without Iron Skin unlike the Nova who ran into a Nullifier Bubble, lost her Null Star and tanks hits like nothing?

Edited November 29, 2018 by Flandyrll

[NocheLuz]

3 minutes ago, Flandyrll said:

Imagine Nidus losing all of his stacks instantly, how long would it take for him to get it back? Now, you lost your Iron Skin, how long does it take for you to get it back? Not a level comparison. 

How would it work with buffs? Do we apply across the board and drain out the duration of buff skills? What about things like Snowglobe, do we slowly drain those out too? Cataclysm? Or is this just a thing we implement only for Rhino because Rhino is weak trash and incapable of taking hits without Iron Skin unlike the Nova who ran into a Nullifier Bubble, lost her Null Star and tanks hits like nothing?

Nidus can get back his stack kinda fast... if there are enemies for him to hit. He both get a stack and attack an enemies at once. But Rhino only defense himself. Also, if Rhino get the treatment. Other would get it too. Because Rhino's Iron Skin is Health-base ability. Other health-base ability would also get the same treatment as Rhino (which is slowly drain it's HP away. If we talk about channel ability or time-base ability. It could also get the same treatment too. Like increasing the energy per second or increase the reduce time-rate of buff (like from 1 per second to 3 per second until the time-base buff is expire... like 30 second ability will only last 10 second in nullifier).

[RX-3DR]

Just now, NocheLuz said:

Nidus can get back his stack kinda fast... if there are enemies for him to hit. He both get a stack and attack an enemies at once. But Rhino only defense himself. Also, if Rhino get the treatment. Other would get it too. Because Rhino's Iron Skin is Health-base ability. Other health-base ability would also get the same treatment as Rhino (which is slowly drain it's HP away. If we talk about channel ability or time-base ability. It could also get the same treatment too. Like increasing the energy per second or increase the reduce time-rate of buff (like from 1 per second to 3 per second until the time-base buff is expire... like 30 second ability will only last 10 second in nullifier).

So this is really just a disguised topic on nerfing Nullifiers. Nidus still has to do more than press 1 button to get his stacks back.

[NocheLuz]

Just now, Flandyrll said:

So this is really just a disguised topic on nerfing Nullifiers. Nidus still has to do more than press 1 button to get his stacks back.

You can only press 1 too to get (atleast 1 stack if you hit enemy) back you know? Also, you don't seem to be happy about how Nidus may get this buff like Rhino and don't want to get Nidus buff at all... Nullifier Nerf is not a bad idea if you seen it as balance. Or just make his drone stationary instead of hover in the direction he facing.

[RX-3DR]

10 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

You can only press 1 too to get (atleast 1 stack if you hit enemy) back you know? Also, you don't seem to be happy about how Nidus may get this buff like Rhino and don't want to get Nidus buff at all... Nullifier Nerf is not a bad idea if you seen it as balance. Or just make his drone stationary instead of hover in the direction he facing.

What's harder to get, 50 Energy on Rhino to use Iron Skin or 20 stacks on Nidus? Nidus already has this where his stacks get drained out when standing in a Nullifier's bubble. It doesn't need to be ported to Rhino because Iron Skin is a single use ability, you're either buffing up Iron Skin against Nullifiers because Rhino, or you're nerfing Nullifiers across the board against abilities coming into contact with it.

The ultimate endpoint is that toggle abilities will not be disabled but only have an increased drain rate so just bulldoze through all those Nullifiers with Valkyr without a care in the world.

[NocheLuz]

12 minutes ago, Flandyrll said:

The ultimate endpoint is that toggle abilities will not be disabled but only have an increased drain rate so just bulldoze through all those Nullifiers with Valkyr without a care in the world.

I'll not talk about how you seen Rhino's Iron skin as 'easily takeback' again... or else it would end up like if iron skin have like 100k HP got taken all away what would get back harder between try to get 100k damage in 3 second or Nidus stacks... Soooo.... yeah... I'll not touch that Topic...

TBH, you can also buff the HP of Nullifier, or make any elite unit deploy Nullifier bubble like in Orb Vallis. Right now the only problem I'm having with nullifier is his drone facing the way he does. When we engaing him, first thing he'll do is facing us for 2 second before running away... you only have 2 second to destroy his drone before it's facing the way he running (which is away from you). Make his drone hover in the top would make targeting the drone easier. You may think shooting the bubble would be faster. But with weapon like Sniper rifle and Bow. It's not that easy to deplete the bubble until it's pop (sometime it is faster to just wait for it's bubble to pop on it's own). With those high output weapon the easy way to fight Nullifier is to destroy his drone. Which you have about 2 second to target the nullifier, target his drone and try to destroy it in 1 shot without missing.

In conclusion, even if they're don't nerf the nullifier I'd like to have them change the drone pattern. If they do change however, like you said Valkyr would still attack those nullifier without care... which is what they do even if they have their ability seal anyway (lol)...

[---Merchant---]

OP is right,the only reason to not change it,is to promote sales of Nidus :^) change my mind

[Veridian]

I absolutely agree to this change.

After all, even skilless 3 year olds should be able to play the game.

Comparing Nidus to Rhino is plain idiotic. How is losing 50 stacks comparable to Iron Skin dropping?

Most Rhino players should stick to CoD anyway.

 

Edited November 29, 2018 by Ver1dian