If Anthem is WF’s future competition, then Vanquish is its past

[Falconer777]

People leave money in Warframe no less, or even much more than in paid projects. Already tired of reading this argument about "free".          This is just a model for selling product. If this game really was free and did not sell anything - it would have died in the first month. It exists ONLY because people pay for certain items in it.

I am sure that "Anthem" will be good. And I will buy it. 
That will not prevent me from returning to Warframe, at the time when Railjack is released, and look at this content. 
And again - buy something. I see absolutely no fundamental difference between these purchases.
Arguments about "greed - virtues" - this is for trustful children, I'm sorry. All companies - game developers, are interested in maximum profit.
This is actually normal - people have worked - people get money.

[German]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb AdunSaveMe:

If you boil them down to literally the most basic aspects of either game then they have a couple of things that could be similar. But they are not similar games.

No, there aren't. There are a couple of similar genre aspects. Borderlands is sci fi and has loot, is that like Warframe? No, it isn't.

Comparing games as if they're similar to each other based on the broadest and most vague traits is silly. Yeah, they both have loot, they're both sci fi. But everything within those categories is entirely different. They work entirely differently. They are not competitors any more than Quake is a competitor to Gears of War, or Star Trek is a competitor to Star Wars, despite the broad similarities they share.

If things are similar and share certain aspects people compare, nothing wrong with that. They don't have to be exact clones to be comparable. And Anthem and Warframe share more than enough similarities.

People need to stop seeing comparisons as an aggression, how much do you think DE looks at their competitors and games they share aspects with? Why do you think they introduced open areas and are now working on railjack? They look at other games that share some things with Warframe and think "hey what would that look like in our game", if anyone is comparing Warframe too much with other games then it's DE. But why should they stop?

[Ermiq]

53 минуты назад, Falconer777 сказал:

People leave money in Warframe no less, or even much more than in paid projects. Already tired of reading this argument about "free".          This is just a model for selling product. If this game really was free and did not sell anything - it would have died in the first month. It exists ONLY because people pay for certain items in it.

I am sure that "Anthem" will be good. And I will buy it. 
That will not prevent me from returning to Warframe, at the time when Railjack is released, and look at this content. 
And again - buy something. I see absolutely no fundamental difference between these purchases.
Arguments about "greed - virtues" - this is for trustful children, I'm sorry. All companies - game developers, are interested in maximum profit.
This is actually normal - people have worked - people get money.

Warframe - selling warframes which are have to be leveled by player manually anyway, in PvE game.

Battlefront 2 (EA) - selling perk cards which give instant advantage to a buyer, in competitive PvP game.

I feel sad for you because you don't understand the true difference here. It's not about Free2Play vs Pay2Pay. It's about fair microtransactions vs predatory game breaking microtransactions. Some day you'll understand that, I hope.

[Veridian]

Old Bioware games were my favorite, but Tor was a WoW clone, DA3 was...a single player MMO, ME:A repetitive and bland, even though the combat was fun. I'm not taking any chances with Anthem sooner than 3 months after release.

My Warframe play time can only be threatened by Cyberpunk at this time, since most AAA developers are churning out cheap turds. Bethesda, Activision, EA. Ubisoft has some redeeming qualities, but they're on the same track as well.

[Lanadra]

9 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

...We'd better hope.

We all know how goofy EA gets when they have a bonafied hit.

If Anthem is a smash hit, it still won't be good for the Bioware that fans of their older works, KoTOR, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, expect to see. It will pretty much put the nail in the coffin of the ''Bioware style singleplayer RPG'' as they'll likely remain largely all-in on Anthem. And if Anthem flops, it will most likely mean Bioware gets axed, maybe, maybe they'll be given the time to finish and release the new Dragon Age, but I doubt it.

Either way, Anthem being the ''all-in, this is it'' for Bioware's existence is probably the worst thing that could have happened, even if only because Anthem runs counter to everything that has put Bioware on the map in the first place.

4 hours ago, Shadow-Spawn said:

Anthem is made by EA - so you will pay for a full priced game at launch and then EA will add lootboxes and micro-transactions to their live-service game.

BioWare has gotten it's soul sucked out by EA - all the great devs left years ago, so don't expect that the C-team will launch anything good on that front.

Warframe is made by DE - and it's Free! 

The devs at Digital Extremes have got more heart and soul in one coding finger than all of EA and EAWare combined!

It's not a difficult decision to make - I chose Warframe above EA forever and ever!

 

This, all of the key figures that made things like KoTOR, Mass Effect and Dragon Age great.. they've all left Bioware by now.

[rune_me]

3 hours ago, Tsardova said:

You'll have to forgive me for being skeptical as all hell but EA's track record has been nothing but anti-consumer as all heck that any title under their belt I'll have to take with a massive grain of salt. That and with how they're handling game access to online only akin to Destiny 2, I can't shake the feeling that they (Bioware/ EA)'ll go with "Episodic" approach and make us pay an extra 150+ bucks for the complete game as well.

For what the devs themselves have said, this is the approach they will take. Anthem won't have lootboxes or any pay2win mechanics. Anything that gives you power will have to be farmed in game, while microtransactions are purely cosmetics. But you have to pay for the game and future expansions.

Which I'm actually fine with. Sinking 150+ bucks into a game over the course of several years is not a problem. I've sunk way more than that into Warframe.

Edited December 12, 2018 by rune_me

[SneakyErvin]

Anthem isnt very similar to Warframe though. The movement seems considerably slower for that fast paced gameplay WF has. It looks more like a modern realistic looking Firefall if anything. It also seems to play more like Destiny, which isnt very much like WF.

Wearing a suit or being a "living" suit controlled by mental kids isnt very similar. Looking at the mechanics the games slide apart even more.

Anthem has far more incommon with Firefall, Titanfall, MechWarrior and Destiny. Heck I'd say it has more incommon with Space Marine aswell, since a dude is wearing a suit while shooting and ripping things apart.

[Toran]

From what I've seen, Anthem isn't that impressive. It looks great (not as great as the pre-alpha footage though), sure, but the gameplay reminds me too much of Spongbob-Master Destiny. And coming from EA I don't expect much more than hype, money-grab, silence.

I'm curious if the game will focus on the same lousy PvP-aspects as Destiny 2 instead of providing regular, quality PvE-content.

Someone compared Destiny 2 with Warframe once and how it kicks Warframe's ass. My reply: to make them comparable you have to remove 90% of Warframe's content first. How long did it take for Destiny 2 to land on humble bundle, about eight months?

Maybe Anthem will become the better Destiny - that depends on how much leeway EA will be giving to BioWare. Even then I don't see the game as direct competition, the vibes are just too different.

 

[Rakosta_Kai]

1 hour ago, Lanadra said:

If Anthem is a smash hit, it still won't be good for the Bioware that fans of their older works, KoTOR, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, expect to see. It will pretty much put the nail in the coffin of the ''Bioware style singleplayer RPG'' as they'll likely remain largely all-in on Anthem. And if Anthem flops, it will most likely mean Bioware gets axed, maybe, maybe they'll be given the time to finish and release the new Dragon Age, but I doubt it.

Unfortunately, those days are already dead...Most of the people that made BioWare what it was have retired iirc.

Likewise, BW saw how much revenue lootboxes in ME3 multiplayer made.

...Add that to the cartel crates in SWToR.

The upside is they don't typically skimp on story.

1 hour ago, Lanadra said:

Either way, Anthem being the ''all-in, this is it'' for Bioware's existence is probably the worst thing that could have happened, even if only because Anthem runs counter to everything that has put Bioware on the map in the first place.

How so?

We don't really know exactly how much story Anthem is going to have, how much resources they will devote to keeping it moving, or how individually divergent it might be.

Anthem could be a great game...It's got all the right bones. But it's coming from a developer that has only really had accidental success in the online space.

The smartest thing they could do, imo, is learn from a group like DE as opposed to assuming they have the answers already.

 

DE had to learn a lot of this stuff the hard way over time.

It was my largest complaint about the company back in the day—That they simply didn't know what they were doing and needed to have hired experts to guide them.

DE, right now, is darned near Oprah in the online space because of how hard they worked to get their audience. 

 

BW doesn't have a clean enough slate to hazard learning the hard way this time and the takeaways from SWToR aren't useful as Anthem won't have the same rabid following out of the gate because it's a new IP and they've burned  the pure BW fans multiple times now.  

Management, direction, and quality is where the real differences and comparisons are going to surface imo...Just like they did with Destiny.

If BW decides to handle Anthem like they have their other online endeavors, release a marginal product with a smile, and interact with their audience in the same way too, someone is going to hold DE and WF up as a litmus and they can't help but look bad compared to it.

The smartest thing BW can do is come out the gate with an awesome product, a Reb quality CM (good luck with that), and events and free stuff with huge thank yous for buying the game, etc.

...They probably won't though and will get their wig split for it in the process. 

[Lanadra]

5 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Unfortunately, those days are already dead...Most of the people that made BioWare what it was have retired iirc.

Likewise, BW saw how much revenue lootboxes in ME3 multiplayer made.

...Add that to the cartel crates in SWToR.

The upside is they don't typically skimp on story.

How so?

We don't really know exactly how much story Anthem is going to have, how much resources they will devote to keeping it moving, or how individually divergent it might be.

Anthem could be a great game...It's got all the right bones. But it's coming from a developer that has only really had accidental success in the online space.

The smartest thing they could do, imo, is learn from a group like DE as opposed to assuming they have the answers already.

 

DE had to learn a lot of this stuff the hard way over time.

It was my largest complaint about the company back in the day—That they simply didn't know what they were doing and needed to have hired experts to guide them.

DE, right now, is darned near Oprah in the online space because of how hard they worked to get their audience. 

 

BW doesn't have a clean enough slate to hazard learning the hard way this time and the takeaways from SWToR aren't useful as Anthem won't have the same rabid following out of the gate because it's a new IP and they've burned  the pure BW fans multiple times now.  

Management, direction, and quality is where the real differences and comparisons are going to surface imo...Just like they did with Destiny.

If BW decides to handle Anthem like they have their other online endeavors, release a marginal product with a smile, and interact with their audience in the same way too, someone is going to hold DE and WF up as a litmus and they can't help but look bad compared to it.

The smartest thing BW can do is come out the gate with an awesome product, a Reb quality CM (good luck with that), and events and free stuff with huge thank yous for buying the game, etc.

...They probably won't though and will get their wig split for it in the process. 

Since you sound like an SWToR veteran.. not unlike myself, even if I've personally not played for a few years now, I'd say you already know how Anthem is likely going to go down.

SWToR, as much as I loved part of it, has in my experience of playing MMO's always been the absolutely most restrictive and predatory MMO in regards to it's F2P model. Before I played SWToR I had never before seen a game hold basic MMO functions hostage behind a paywall. It had been inconceivable to me that I had to pay to have things as basic as multiple skill bars or basic customization options.

Granted, it has been years and I'm sure Bioware has likely learned from the mistakes made with SWToR.. if they even consider that F2P model to have been a mistake. But right now my faith in Bioware is at an all time low. They screwed me once already with Andromeda.

I reckon Anthem can be great for those that consider it their kind of game, but to me, Anthem is the big bad that took a quality Mass Effect game straight from my hands. Andromeda sucked because the team that made the original Mass Effect games was too busy with Anthem instead. Leaving Mass Effect in the hands of a team that was, as the end product showed, clearly not up to par.

[Autongnosis]

Il y a 4 heures, Ermiq a dit :

Anthem - Destiny - Warframe

1) Main jenre: Shooter

2) World setting: Sci-Fi

3) Multiplayer type: Coop with public hubs

4) Main gameplay: repeatable grinding at same zones again and again

5) Gameplay's purpose: leveling up and getting new better guns, collecting items

6) RPG elements: suits/classes which provide different abilities and gameplay styles, class/suit/weapon builds, levels, loot

7) PvP: instanced, no open-world PvP, PvP is not a part of the lore and it's just for fun (don't know about Anthem's PvP actually but pretty sure it will be the same (IF it will be exist)).

Nah, nothing similar.

Exactly. 

1) anthem looks like a shooter, destiny is definitely a shooter, warframe is a musou. Nope. If anything their common ground is being a looter. The only thing warframe has in common with a shooter is that you can phisically aim your gun, otherwise it would be even more like dinasty warriors than both anthem and destiny as far as combat goes. 

2) that's right. 

3) just like every other MMO and MMO lite ever made. 

4) just like every looter ever made. 

5) that's true and false at the same time. They have the same, at least loosely, progression model but anthem we know not enough yet, destiny has a very clear progression aim in raids and strikes and other endgame activities, while warframe is about only getting more powerful and collecting things. Hardly the same. 

6) just like every other RPG ever. Also, the way destiny and warframe handle leveling is polar opposite of one another. The only points of contact here are the fact classes are "suits" and rivens. Every other kind of mechanic is completely different, from the skill tree vs mods scenario, to how they handle player choice to equioment progression. Also, items themselves do not level at all in destiny.

7) cant say yet about anthem but the pvp systems in Warframe and destiny couldn't be more different, from the way they handle mechanics, power progression, movement etc. They are however both old style instance based pvps. The other big different is that the crucible is a core part of the destiny game, while conclave is a minor, tacked on addition that is sorta just there. 

[Falconer777]

2 часа назад, Ermiq сказал:

Warframe - selling warframes which are have to be leveled by player manually anyway, in PvE game.

Battlefront 2 (EA) - selling perk cards which give instant advantage to a buyer, in competitive PvP game.

I feel sad for you because you don't understand the true difference here. It's not about Free2Play vs Pay2Pay. It's about fair microtransactions vs predatory game breaking microtransactions. Some day you'll understand that, I hope.

I also hope that someday you will understand that the tricks of the F2P games are no better than microtransactions.

One example - in every topic about the auction on this forum, perhaps the main argument of opponents of its introduction is that the auction can reduce the purchase of platinum from DE, since players will not need to spend so much time on this atavism in the form of trade chat. That is, the absolute inconvenience of trading de forces players to pay real money. The same with grind, with boosters, with frame creation latency - do you love your time? To pay! With beginners who have not yet understood the game, and buy resources and credits (!) for platinum. Etc, etc.

I feel sad for you,  that you do not see these obvious things.

 

[Rakosta_Kai]

6 minutes ago, Lanadra said:

Since you sound like an SWToR veteran.. not unlike myself, even if I've personally not played for a few years now, I'd say you already know how Anthem is likely going to go down.

SWToR, as much as I loved part of it, has in my experience of playing MMO's always been the absolutely most restrictive and predatory MMO in regards to it's F2P model. Before I played SWToR I had never before seen a game hold basic MMO functions hostage behind a paywall. It had been inconceivable to me that I had to pay to have things as basic as multiple skill bars or basic customization options

Yup.

Which is why I am saying they need to not lean on what they think they know this time.

DE will split that wig for them if they do.

6 minutes ago, Lanadra said:

Granted, it has been years and I'm sure Bioware has likely learned from the mistakes made with SWToR.. if they even consider that F2P model to have been a mistake. But right now my faith in Bioware is at an all time low. They screwed me once already with Andromeda.

I Completely Understand.

 

7 minutes ago, Lanadra said:

I reckon Anthem can be great for those that consider it their kind of game, but to me, Anthem is the big bad that took a quality Mass Effect game straight from my hands. Andromeda sucked because the team that made the original Mass Effect games was too busy with Anthem instead. Leaving Mass Effect in the hands of a team that was, as the end product showed, clearly not up to par.

Not unreasonable opinions to hold.

They'd better bring their "A" game this time around.

If Warframe goes down in history for doing nothing else, they raised the level of expectations for this genre and online game management across the board.

So when people say, "They aren't comparable"... All I got is "nopes".

They'd better be, at least, as good as the F2P AAA game that gives stuff away every couple of months.

Given the upfront cost? ....They'd need to be even better than that.

[(PSN)Lowk721]

51 minutes ago, Toran said:

I'm curious if the game will focus on the same lousy PvP-aspects as Destiny 2 instead of providing regular, quality PvE-content. 

I have some doubts about pvp even being a thing let alone good. Until now, most of bioware's multiplayer experiance regarding shooter has been co-op. Meaning that should they add pvp its going to be a learning experiance. Which seems like a big risk to take on something that could make or break your company.

They even mention no pvp for loot reasons.

No PvP. This decision allows us to have a much wider array of weapons and gear and makes the loot chase more interesting

— Mark Darrah (@BioMarkDarrah)

 

Edited December 12, 2018 by (PS4)Lowk721

[(PSN)robotwars7]

there's actually a good chance that Anthem will be superior to warframe in just about every area..

Spoiler

but only if you pay a ridiculous amount of money to EA in microtransactions, of course. we aren't getting the full game on release, it'll be chopped up and sold as expansions, because that's how they do things these days.

 

[Sziklamester]

There are similarities here and there but  if you want an ancestor then I could mention the Evolva （not evolve）. Evolva is a scifi partly coop single/online game where you manage 4 gene hunters whom can adopt in some situation by eating creatures and take their genomes. Not a nowaday game and in that time the multiplayer options were limited but you can test out now since it got some fixes to run on modern operating systems.

There are other games aswell and some people mentionned other games I just wanted to put this here.

 

Edited December 12, 2018 by Sziklamester

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

I loved Vanquish...I wish it was like Warframe...I would be playing it now if had taken the same route as DE...There's a lot games out there that would've done well with De's model of adding content, PVE, and free to play like Strike Vector Ex, EVOLVE. and Dreadnought....but they need to be like Warframe not in there current UIs or gameplay...but the art designs, movement, and power fantasy would've carried them far in the PVE market.

[Lanadra]

26 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

there's actually a good chance that Anthem will be superior to warframe in just about every area..

  Reveal hidden contents

but only if you pay a ridiculous amount of money to EA in microtransactions, of course. we aren't getting the full game on release, it'll be chopped up and sold as expansions, because that's how they do things these days.

 

It's kinda sad that we're even at this point when it comes to the game industry. To the point where fanboys/apologists think that ''It'll be good eventually!'' is a solid argument as to why it's okay to release a buggy, unfinished, broken mess at launch. We saw it with FO76 and with BF V as well.

Personally, it's -never- okay to release a buggy, unfinished, broken mess at launch and expect people to pay anywhere from 60 to 200 bucks for it.

[Corvid]

6 hours ago, Ermiq said:

PvP is not a part of the lore

Untrue in both Destiny and Warframe's cases (both the Crucible and the Conclave are in the lore as a means of training Guardians/Tenno to stay sharp), and PvP has been confirmed to be absent from Anthem.

[rune_me]

2 hours ago, Toran said:

I'm curious if the game will focus on the same lousy PvP-aspects as Destiny 2 instead of providing regular, quality PvE-content.

There's no PvP in Anthem so I don't know why you would be curious about that.

Straight from the developers, no PvP at launch and no current plans to ever add it.

[Lanadra]

6 minutes ago, rune_me said:

There's no PvP in Anthem so I don't know why you would be curious about that.

Straight from the developers, no PvP at launch and no current plans to ever add it.

That's a small plus in my eyes.. still won't make me consider Anthem. But hell, I'd say a full on coop experience is better then PvP.

[Sloan441]

18 hours ago, Lanadra said:

Hmm, Global Agenda's PvE was fairly minor. I'd say ME3 MP is the most accurate. Hell, I jumped from ME3 MP to Warframe myself because it felt so similar to me.

Also, anyone that gets Anthem before or on release is a fool. Bioware has not shown itself trustworthy in the last 2 years. Do yourselves a favor and wait for reviews, or risk, now more then ever, to get burned with a serious case of buyers remorse.

Quoted for truth. 

I, too, played ME3MP very extensively. I also was looking for something 'more' when the updates were done and it became apparent that eventually the game would be left behind by EA. I latched onto WF and haven't looked back. WF was similar but more...and became far more with time. 

Then we had ME:A. The multiplayer isn't bad (though the jetpacks were clownshoes), but BioWare seriously screwed the pooch in about every other way imaginable. I personally think the developer is thoroughly converged and can no longer perform its core function: make fun games and tell interesting stories. Initial glimpses of DA4 reinforce this suspicion; it's not looking good for BioWare. 

With this in mind, I would not buy any BioWare game at this point without a serious vetting amongst trusted reviewers. It's just that bad. Anthem has been setting off alarm bells for months now and I'm definitely waiting for reviews. Most of my gaming friends have no interest in it (they don't trust BioWare much at this point) and I'm very leery of it myself.

Same thing with any Bethesda game now. 

Wait for evaluation of the actual product, then make your decision. 

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

As someone who played the Anthem Closed Alpha I must say, it felt good. I had an Iron Man feel flying around, and the first weapon they give you is... a braton... Really I looked at the gun and all I could see was Braton. Not that I fnd it bad, it's just funny. The game felt great. Will it compete with Warframe? Doubt it. It's similar, at least more than Destiny, but Melee is very basic and I think appearance customization will never be at Warframe's level. And we know what we like as Tenno.

[DatDarkOne]

I would love to play Anthem as it looks interesting and the type of game that I would enjoy.  BUT (and it's a major one) the game is an EA game.  That alone means I won't ever be playing it.  I just can't support anything EA as the company has shown me time and time again over the last 20+ years that they are the bane of gamers.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

8 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

I would love to play Anthem as it looks interesting and the type of game that I would enjoy.  BUT (and it's a major one) the game is an EA game.  That alone means I won't ever be playing it.  I just can't support anything EA as the company has shown me time and time again over the last 20+ years that they are the bane of gamers.

I'm very wary of it too. And I'm not one of those hate/hype bandwagon players. Last game I played from EA was The Sims 4 and I never touched any other franchise. Anthem, however, has my interest for now. That's why I signed up for the Alpha, to try it out without paying. Feels great, specially for someone who loves the idea of a "operated-battle-frame" (Warframe's premise), and Bioware said they were including no lootboxes and if there's any microtransaction at all it'd be cosmetic only, like Warframe. This might be the first game I'm really interested in from EA, though I'll still wait for reviews and do my own research. If it turns out to be another fiasco like Battlefront or even like Destiny I might as well put the wallet down. Either way Warframe is my main game no matter what comes up, even if I take a break from it for a while.