Nyx rework 1.5 (More to Psychic themed)

[Kontrollo]

59 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

I would wholeheartedly agree with this if the game wasnt in the state that it currently is. We really dont need or make use of any CC. Damage simply does a better job at it. This sadly puts the CC frames in a bad position, a reason why Vauban and Nyx are two frames people want reworked. Many of the other frames have atleast one CC ability for the odd moments when it is needed. Why bring a whole frame that is more or less just centered around CC, survival and not much else?

It is silly to have a frame that sits with a map covering CC ability that lasts 25 seconds unmodded when even the toughest content gets wiped in seconds. There may have been a time long ago when the game simply had a different pace and damage model, where CC was useful. That just isnt the WF we have now. This is pretty much the reason I'd like her to get damage added to her chaos, so it can actually help kill whatever stands in the far distance slapping their friends in the face.

Just because we don't need any CC right now doesn't mean that we won't need it in the future, either. We'll see if that's still the case when we actually see some more Sentient enemies, that's probably where they'll ramp up the difficulty again. At least that's what one would expect. Also, they'll try to work on/explore some options with the power scaling in Railjack I think? See last dev stream summary.

Maybe you just haven't been around when CC was very useful and desirable in this game. It actually still is when you don't go and put a dedicated team together to cheese the game mechanics to their fullest. Besides, there are already enough Warframes that do what you want a Warframe to do. No need to slap a variation of AoE nuke on every single Warframe out there.

You mean damage to enemies affected by Chaos? You can still get hit and downed by stray shots, so that's definitely not useful. They'd have to rework health and damage scaling first.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

Giving Nyx a chance or even an option to disarm enemies has always been a terrible design choice. The same can be said for Mag’s Magnetized Discharge.

Removal of enemy weaponry to switch them into melee mode for Frames that benefit from enemy gunplay has always been extremely unsuitable for their kits.

[SneakyErvin]

25 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

Just because we don't need any CC right now doesn't mean that we won't need it in the future, either. We'll see if that's still the case when we actually see some more Sentient enemies, that's probably where they'll ramp up the difficulty again. At least that's what one would expect. Also, they'll try to work on/explore some options with the power scaling in Railjack I think? See last dev stream summary.

Maybe you just haven't been around when CC was very useful and desirable in this game. It actually still is when you don't go and put a dedicated team together to cheese the game mechanics to their fullest. Besides, there are already enough Warframes that do what you want a Warframe to do. No need to slap a variation of AoE nuke on every single Warframe out there.

You mean damage to enemies affected by Chaos? You can still get hit and downed by stray shots, so that's definitely not useful. They'd have to rework health and damage scaling first.

If they do indeed introduce content where CC will be useful then sure, Nyx has some use. But for all we know sentients may also be immune or adaptive to CC, making it even worse than it currently it. But it isnt something we know yet. 

And no I wasnt around when CC was useful, or well, I was because it is useful early on in the game until you have gear to simply render it obsolete. Currently at what we can call end-game I've not run into a single instance where there has been a need to CC anything really, aside from making sortie defense quicker/safer by disarming everything with Loki. And even in those situations I rather just take a Saryn to wipe it all out. I wouldnt count long endless runs to the list because even DE have said that their game balance is not designed around those outliers.

As for chaos and damage. Either add a DoT or a feedback effect to enemies controlled by chaos. Feedback would likely be the most appropriate, dealing damage to the target whenever it performs an action, maximum 1 time per second so full auto mobs wouldnt just kill themselves instantly. Damage increases with ability strength. This way two mobs shooting at eachother wouldnt be like watching paint dry and it would have less of a negative slowdown effect on missions like defense and survival.

[Howtoshootgun]

Good lord, if that`s the kind of feedback DE was basing this rework on im not surprised anymore. Not talking about the OP but some of the responses. Literally "CC sucks, more damage"

My last two cents on this: New passive is trash, if i could get one thing id have this reverted. Not bothering making an effort post laying down the reasons why again, not interested in further discussion again. Theres been alot of good feedback threads by alot of people all obviously ignored for the "i dont play Nyx at all/i played for 10 mins but i think she should have more damage" crowd. I dont get it. Saryn and Banshee already exist, you can play them now. Must be all the Nyxes constantly joining Hydron farms and slowing things down. Well whatever, damage is done. Peace out

 

[BemoGuinness]

All I have to say is good thing OP doesn't work for DE......

[Joe_Barbarian]

6 hours ago, GinKenshin said:

isn't this another 'these are the nyx changes I want' thread from you? 

There is already 8 threads created by @XenMaster in the last month in regards to Nyx abilities.

[GinKenshin]

3 minutes ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

There is already 8 threads created by @XenMaster in the last month in regards to Nyx abilities.

I don’t doubt that. It’s getting ridiculous at this point, might spam report it tbh or merger request it 

[Xzorn]

/\

Well, it's not like Nyx had a large fan base and likely has even less now.

Most Nyx players I know dislike the charges and the rest either went back to playing whatever or just didn't realize Nyx was good in the first place.

I already consider this a waste of time though. There's not enough players who care to get the attention of DE and help them understand the mistakes they've made. It seems obvious whoever did these reworks hasn't put much time into Nyx even going as far to give her an out-of-theme damage buff when an in-theme one was already within reach by allowing Nyx and her team to benefit from Eximus aura damage buffs and immunity when she has the MC'd.

I would take the old Nyx I put 900 in-mission hours into in a second. I just play Loki for CC now. G'luck to DE trying to get people to play whatever she is now.

[Kontrollo]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

If they do indeed introduce content where CC will be useful then sure, Nyx has some use. But for all we know sentients may also be immune or adaptive to CC, making it even worse than it currently it. But it isnt something we know yet. 

And no I wasnt around when CC was useful, or well, I was because it is useful early on in the game until you have gear to simply render it obsolete. Currently at what we can call end-game I've not run into a single instance where there has been a need to CC anything really, aside from making sortie defense quicker/safer by disarming everything with Loki. And even in those situations I rather just take a Saryn to wipe it all out. I wouldnt count long endless runs to the list because even DE have said that their game balance is not designed around those outliers.

As for chaos and damage. Either add a DoT or a feedback effect to enemies controlled by chaos. Feedback would likely be the most appropriate, dealing damage to the target whenever it performs an action, maximum 1 time per second so full auto mobs wouldnt just kill themselves instantly. Damage increases with ability strength. This way two mobs shooting at eachother wouldnt be like watching paint dry and it would have less of a negative slowdown effect on missions like defense and survival.

It's still useful even now, there just aren't that many nodes where it's needed. But that's from the perspective of a decked out player anyway. It's definitely not something for the regular farm missions.

For example, Interception doesn't need you to kill anyone. It's useful in Arbitrations (esp. Survival/Excavation/Interception). Law of Retribution was basically mass CC with puzzles.

And of course it depends on the enemy faction. Chaos can help a lot against Corpus, Corrupted and Infested, potentially even speeding up a round of Defence when used right. Of course not against Star Chart mooks that get facerolled if you blink in their direction.

Chaos idea might work for her, but as pointed out you don't always want to kill everything, so that'd be more fitting on an augment imho (excluding the lost slot from that consideration).

[Kontrollo]

2 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

/\

Well, it's not like Nyx had a large fan base and likely has even less now.

Most Nyx players I know dislike the charges and the rest either went back to playing whatever or just didn't realize Nyx was good in the first place.

I already consider this a waste of time though. There's not enough players who care to get the attention of DE and help them understand the mistakes they've made. It seems obvious whoever did these reworks hasn't put much time into Nyx even going as far to give her an out-of-theme damage buff when an in-theme one was already within reach by allowing Nyx and her team to benefit from Eximus aura damage buffs and immunity when she has the MC'd.

I would take the old Nyx I put 900 in-mission hours into in a second. I just play Loki for CC now. G'luck to DE trying to get people to play whatever she is now.

It's not all bad now, but I wouldn't mind going back half a year, either.

Funny thing is, her Bolts were never all that popular but they still found a way to mess them up somehow. Must've been some effort. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[SneakyErvin]

16 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

It's still useful even now, there just aren't that many nodes where it's needed. But that's from the perspective of a decked out player anyway. It's definitely not something for the regular farm missions.

For example, Interception doesn't need you to kill anyone. It's useful in Arbitrations (esp. Survival/Excavation/Interception).

Interception I can see the use for it in, atleast on arbitration levels, but when we start talking survival and excavation I personally get frustrated when playing with a Nyx because the mobs are simply too far off for efficient life support or battery drops. I'd rather have other frames for the job, preferably Loki in excav to remove all shooting while also bringing the mobs close so we dont have to run around and look for drops. In survival I'd just want someone reliable like Rev that can kill and survive as needed.

[Xzorn]

11 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

It's not all bad now, but I wouldn't mind going back half a year, either.

Funny thing is, her Bolts were never all that popular but they still found a way to mess them up somehow. Must've been some effort. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

What disappoints me most is the Rad proc on her Bolts was removed in addition to not being able to spam it while at the same time making her only able to have one instance of Chaos active then implying we should use 130% Power Strength for Armor Strip which means no Overextended. All in turn making that Rad proc more needed than ever to maintain control. Esp in large areas like Vallis / PoE since Bolts has a 60m range regardless of Power Range.

There's also how near useless they made her Bolts augment by creating that cast limit.

The entire exercise is an overall nerf for her roll as a DE defined "Defensive CC frame". She was exactly that before and she was good at it.

I dunno what she is now. Feels like she has Old-School Oberon syndrome or Atlas syndrome. She does stuff but none of it's good.

[Kontrollo]

1 minute ago, Xzorn said:

What disappoints me most is the Rad proc on her Bolts was removed in addition to not being able to spam it while at the same time making her only able to have one instance of Chaos active then implying we should use 130% Power Strength for Armor Strip which means no Overextended. All in turn making that Rad proc more needed than ever to maintain control. Esp in large areas like Vallis / PoE since Bolts has a 60m range regardless of Power Range.

There's also how near useless they made her Bolts augment by creating that cast limit.

The entire exercise is an overall nerf for her roll as a DE defined "Defensive CC frame". She was exactly that before and she was good at it.

I dunno what she is now. Feels like she has Old-School Oberon syndrome or Atlas syndrome. She does stuff but none of it's good.

Totally agree, it's really awkward what they did there. So I simply went back to Overextended -- why bother with these Bolts or the augment at all? If I'm going to put power strength on someone, that someone will be Oberon.

Her max range Chaos is still about as good as it was. A bit less reliable with the one instance and the short window of no Confusion, but you can have the initial stun whenever you want now, at least. Chaos Sphere wasn't touched, either (after they broke and fixed it *ahem*).

No animation lock to grab Ancients and Eximi is nice, too, as is that bit extra range and the self-buff of her 4. Although the latter two are more of a gimmick, just like the whole thing with her MC.

[Xzorn]

5 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

Totally agree, it's really awkward what they did there. So I simply went back to Overextended -- why bother with these Bolts or the augment at all? If I'm going to put power strength on someone, that someone will be Oberon.

Her max range Chaos is still about as good as it was. A bit less reliable with the one instance and the short window of no Confusion, but you can have the initial stun whenever you want now, at least. Chaos Sphere wasn't touched, either (after they broke and fixed it *ahem*).

No animation lock to grab Ancients and Eximi is nice, too, as is that bit extra range and the self-buff of her 4. Although the latter two are more of a gimmick, just like the whole thing with her MC.

 

The one-hand cast on MC is nice though... gimmicky. Like it didn't matter much before cuz she had better CC. If that make sense.

And I didn't bother with the Armor Strip either. Guns do that job fine without sacrificing a frame's survival.

I feel she was best right before the rework. She could only have one instance of Chaos at that time but that window between casts could be mitigated with Natural Talent and let her spam Bolts faster again with the Rad proc keeping her safe. I was much happier being able to keep 50% of enemies disarmed and stunned the entire time. Her 2 is just a dead ability now and sadly I think if DE realizes she can stun-lock by casting 3 every 2 seconds they'd nerf that even though she's always been able to do it with a 13% Duration build.

[XenMaster]

Example of good change is that from Avengers Age of Ultron, Scarlet Witch mind controls every resident of Sokovia (Sukovia?) and tell them to move out the house.

 

If we apply that to Nyx, adding new set of skills into Psychic Bolts into 4 set, telling chaos affected enemies to go into one place, she could be the second Speed Nova while also "preventing" enemies from shooting our team.

 

Why DE never thought about this?

[Cubewano]

We don't need more Saryn's in the game. >:C

Edited February 4, 2019 by Cubewano

[XenMaster]

5 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

We don't need more Saryn's in the game. >:C

Not over nuke lol, but rather "Overbuff" the frame.

[Cubewano]

8 minutes ago, XenMaster said:

Not over nuke lol, but rather "Overbuff" the frame.

fair

[NocheLuz]

I think at first mind control seem like a great ability. Until you realize that kill them is much faster and simple solution (lol).

My thinking is that maybe Psychic Bolt will make Mind control Target get buff? Like Mind control Target will either deal more damage to them or take less damage from them or both. Or them Chaos enemies will now thinking that Mind control Target is their commander and will sometime shoot at the same target as the one Mind control does.

Either Way, she do needed a rework.

[XenMaster]

24 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

I think at first mind control seem like a great ability. Until you realize that kill them is much faster and simple solution (lol).

My thinking is that maybe Psychic Bolt will make Mind control Target get buff? Like Mind control Target will either deal more damage to them or take less damage from them or both. Or them Chaos enemies will now thinking that Mind control Target is their commander and will sometime shoot at the same target as the one Mind control does.

Either Way, she do needed a rework.

Mind Control should do damage that rivals player's primary weapon dmg. Because the ability supposedly her only source of damage.

[XenMaster]

Grineer weapons : all IPS, Heat, Electric, Blast, Toxin

 

Corpus : all IPS, Electric, Magnetic, Blast, (maybe radiation or not)

 

Infested : all IPS (mainly slash), Toxin

 

So, lets just say Nyx accumulated 10k damage. And only toxin, slash and puncture atm are the one absorbed.

 

Now she can proc and deal

 

10k toxin and its status effect

10k slash and its status effect

10k puncture and its status effect

 

Not to mention your friends suddenly shoot you with viral and corrosive weapon, she now become the next saryn.

 

Cant DE just overbuff her?

[GinKenshin]

Can't you stop making multiple threads and make a big one with all your suggestions?

[(PSN)robotwars7]

53 minutes ago, XenMaster said:

Cant DE just overbuff her?

overbuff? as in make deliberately Overpowered? I somehow doubt they would want that. 

[(PSN)watt4hem]

2 hours ago, XenMaster said:

Cant DE just overbuff her?

Short version of the answer : no

[yles9056]

Fun fact: DE is more likely to read your suggestions if you post them in feedback section instead of general discussion.