If you had a Nyx in public run what would you prefer?

[Eirshy]

34 minutes ago, SirTobe said:

Assuming you're smart enough to carry a weapon that can easily deal with nullfiers, the ONLY threat against Nyx is leeching infested. Other than that Nyx is untouchable, top tier survival frame.

Hey, weapon choice doesn't save you from getting a surprise nulli from behind. I'd say flanking nullifiers are a bit more of a threat than leeching infested simply because the infested have a bit shorter of a range and won't instantly pop your shield.

Incidentally that was the only time I've died in an Arby on Nyx. In spite of the flanking vulnerability, she's still one of the few frames that does well holding D on that orokin defense map turned interception map (the trident-junction by the entrance), due to how incredibly safe she is. Just need to make sure your head's on a swivel in later waves, otherwise it's all but luck as to whether you'll be able to 5 out of the 4-cancel's animation.

Edited January 24, 2019 by Eirshy

[SirTobe]

4 hours ago, Eirshy said:

Hey, weapon choice doesn't save you from getting a surprise nulli from behind. I'd say flanking nullifiers are a bit more of a threat than leeching infested simply because the infested have a bit shorter of a range and won't instantly pop your shield.

I guess it happens, but situational awareness is more up to the player than Nyx and her weapons 😉 I do tend to unintentionally jump into nullifiers sometimes with melee combos, but that is my fault. At least you have a second to react during animation when she's popping the bubble. Since there is no cooldown you can just quickly dash away with your operator and reactivate it. Also, wont the bubble still knock nearby enemies down from absorbed damage, even if nullified? Can't remember.

Anyway, when I deal with waves of enemies in absorb it is usually in a larger room to be able to move around and where nullifiers and other specific enemies can be spotted in time. In tight spaces where nullifiers can surprise you through walls and ceilings I usually just use absorb as a panic button anyway. I'm having more problems with infested leechers because they are so hard to spot. Suddenly your energy is blank and the moment your bubble is popped you get hooked by three ancients and completely destroyed as you're dragged across the floor 😄 High level infested can really turn the game in a second if you lose control like that, lol. 

[SneakyErvin]

16 hours ago, SirTobe said:

Dude, you really don't know what you're talking about. Have you even used her for more than mastery xp? By using absorb assimilate you always put her in the middle of the enemy, just slashing your way through them all like nothing. You easily move around quickly by dashing with the operator, or certain melee combos to jump between enemies and shorter distances. Chaos is mostly used for the rest of the team, or whenever you need to deactivate absorb when there are still enemies around. Assuming you're smart enough to carry a weapon that can easily deal with nullfiers, the ONLY threat against Nyx is leeching infested. Other than that Nyx is untouchable, top tier survival frame.

I do arbitrations with Nyx almost daily, and I had one hour in survival just a few hours ago against the currupted. Ironically it was just me and another guy playing Loki left of the squad, and we extracted because we got bored and had to take a piss, not because things got sweaty. Arbitrations is about survival, not powerful offensive abilities. Nyx ace this.

Dude, how can you fail to get the point?

All of what you describe can be better done by other frames, that is the whole point. Why should I pick Nyx over Baruuk or Rev for the survivability? Assimilate means no slide attacks, which means inferior melee when slide is useful (like versus drones), you need specific weapons with specific combos for good momentum during assimilate, or rely on operator to get around. All of that wastes kill time that the other frames dont suffer from. And this is only when comparing hard immunity survival skills, outside of the 3 mentioned frames you also have Chroma, Rhino, Nezha, Inaros, Nidus, Khora, Valkyr and Oberon that are tanky enough without an invulnerability skill. All of them also bring much more damage potential with their kits or TTL for their team, sometimes both. Not only do they bring the survivability, they also dont need their melee (or a special stance for a specific weapon) equipped in order to get around quickly, so they can run around shooting and chopping seamlessly as needed.

Why pick the least offensive frame to get a skill that the offensive frames can get aswell without drawbacks or augments needed in the process? Why go through several extra steps when you can do it in one with the right equipment?

 

[Eirshy]

14 hours ago, SirTobe said:

I guess it happens, but situational awareness is more up to the player than Nyx and her weapons 😉 I do tend to unintentionally jump into nullifiers sometimes with melee combos, but that is my fault. At least you have a second to react during animation when she's popping the bubble. Since there is no cooldown you can just quickly dash away with your operator and reactivate it. Also, wont the bubble still knock nearby enemies down from absorbed damage, even if nullified? Can't remember.

Anyway, when I deal with waves of enemies in absorb it is usually in a larger room to be able to move around and where nullifiers and other specific enemies can be spotted in time. In tight spaces where nullifiers can surprise you through walls and ceilings I usually just use absorb as a panic button anyway. I'm having more problems with infested leechers because they are so hard to spot. Suddenly your energy is blank and the moment your bubble is popped you get hooked by three ancients and completely destroyed as you're dragged across the floor 😄 High level infested can really turn the game in a second if you lose control like that, lol. 

Any enemy inside a nulli or arby'd is unaffected by it. You do get to keep the iframes for most of the animation, but they drop shortly before you touch the ground again (and regain control). If you had been using Chaos you'll probably live long enough to operate out, but if your chaos was arby'd then, well... As for the situational awareness, yeah yeah, I know... but if you recognize the tile I tried to describe you'd know exactly how.... distracting one direction is compared to the other, since something like 1/3 to 3/5 of the entire map's spawns go through that point lol

I personally tend to sit in it, since the arcane energy generator combo is so strong. And yeah, in open spaces nullifiers really aren't a threat at all, definitely a point there. Buuuut I still pretty regularly glance at my energy pool due to how much training pre-Blitz pre-AE Titania gave me in energy management, so I tend to notice and react to esiphons relatively quick.

[Eirshy]

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Dude, how can you fail to get the point?

How can you?

Nyx is one of the safest frames in the game, with far better practicality and reliability than any other mechanic in-game save Limbo's rift. At the same time, Nyx isn't limited in how she can fight while in it, only in speed- which you can compensate for by operating, one of the fastest modes of transit in the game. For "offense", her 3 turns off auras (like the 50% DR aura of a frost eximus, or the DR and Status Redirect of an Ancient Healer), and it does this while providing a level of incoming fire reduction to her allies.

Both of those together are large boons. The addition of her 2 being able to insta-strip large swaths of shield/armor is, albeit more situationally, useful, and her 1 being able to commandeer one of those auras similarly so.

Other frames can do similar things, no other frame can do exactly what she does. Is she more reliant on premium equipment to perform well? Sure. But she does a better job of getting your plat's worth out of the gear you giver her than most other frames, due to what her 4/3 provide.

Edited January 25, 2019 by Eirshy

[SneakyErvin]

2 minutes ago, Eirshy said:

How can you?

Nyx is one of the safest frames in the game, with far better practicality and reliability than any other mechanic in-game save Limbo's rift. At the same time, Nyx isn't limited in how she can fight while in it, only in speed- which you can compensate for by operating, one of the fastest modes of transit in the game. For "offense", her 3 turns off auras (like the 50% DR aura of a frost eximus, or the DR and Status Redirect of an Ancient Healer), and it does this while providing a level of incoming fire reduction to her allies.

Both of those together are large boons. The addition of her 2 being able to insta-strip large swaths of shield/armor is, albeit more situationally, useful, and her 1 being able to commandeer one of those auras similarly so.

Other frames can do similar things, no other frame can do exactly what she does. Is she more reliant on premium equipment to perform well? Sure. But she does a better job of getting your plat's worth out of the gear you giver her than most other frames, due to what her 4/3 provide.

No, no, just no. There is a reason why barely no one players her and so many want her reworked into something good. Nothing she has is top of the line. It may be unique, but that doesnt mean they are great options or the best you can get. You simply get the same value out of other frames. As I said, Loki does a better job with disarm than Nyx, even when it comes to the confuse part. You dont need more than a few seconds worth of confusion to remove the "danger" that ancients and similar enemies bring. And wow, Nyx can control one whole eximus that gives a beneficial aura, well Rev can control 7 of them, also removing them from the battle and letteing people kill them during that time.

And how exactly does she bring more worth out of the gear? That makes no sense whatsoever. She kills slower than several frames, time vs reward is the main thing in the game. Killing slower means you get less out of your "expensive" gear. What part of her 3/4 makes her perform better with her gear than an offensive frame with backup CC? No part does. She moves around slower and she stops enemies in their tracks waaaay off in the distance. How exactly does that help anyone?

If it takes you that long time to kill things that you need to rely on the long CCs of Nyx you should maybe reconcider your loadouts.

[Eirshy]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

There is a reason why barely no one players her and so many want her reworked into something good.

And lot of players take Brozime's wrong opinions as gospel. Sheep aren't known for intelligence, and they're especially not known for wealth. A frame like Nyx almost requires Arcane Energize to get the most out of her, meaning the peasant classes can't really unlock her power. And honestly, until Energy Generator came out, I would have only really kept her around for collection and for when I was bored of Limbo in mobdef. That mod single-handedly took her from usable to godlike.

My comment on getting more "worth" out of the gear? Well, first she rewards platinum plating on herself with invulnerability that is only less reliable than Limbo's, yet has almost no drawbacks. But beyond that, Nyx doesn't "get in the way" of what weapons she brings- in fact, she does the opposite.

The most extreme example of "getting in the way" is Saryn. She is want to bring something for spore spreading: wide AoE or long range anti-Nullifier. Meaning something like an Ignis or a Tenora are go-to options. Stronger weapons are still useful to her (for burning down heavy targets and making starting the plague less painful), but they offer very marginal gains in lethality, due to her 1/4 with 3 being leaps and bounds more powerful than basically anything you could put in your weapons slots.

Another is Limbo, who requires very creative play to keep alive outside of the rift, but cannot harm things outside if he's inside. This makes the best weapons for him bursty and easy to aim quickly, as you need to bring them to bear swiftly upon exiting the rift, and still be able to dodge back into the rift without losing too much of your contribution. He still scales greatly with weapon power- since he's doing all his killing with them- but he's got fairly strict limitations (good luck using a Lanka on him, for example), and you typically pick him when killing is secondary because of how strict those limitations are.

Nyx, however, lets you all but ignore damage and CC directed at you. Hand her a marksman weapon, and she can take her time to aim in the middle of a hallway, only concerned with vantage, not cover or outrange. Hand her high explosives and she can detonate them without worry for where the edge of the blast radius is. Hand her a hose, be it chemical, photon, or bullet, and you can operate to and deploy at optimal range without a care for how "in the middle of all of them" that is.

Edited January 25, 2019 by Eirshy

[Amhiel]

I don't mind Nyx casting Chaos as long as it's not a farming situation. If you're farming a defense or survival for resources or affinity it's better to have the enemies coming right at you as fast as possible in a tidy neat group to get disposed of faster. If they're affected by chaos they're busy tickling each other and you have to chase them through the map and it becomes a somewhat fun but very ineficient session. 

[SirTobe]

9 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Dude, how can you fail to get the point?

All of what you describe can be better done by other frames, that is the whole point. Why should I pick Nyx over Baruuk or Rev for the survivability? Assimilate means no slide attacks, which means inferior melee when slide is useful (like versus drones), you need specific weapons with specific combos for good momentum during assimilate, or rely on operator to get around. All of that wastes kill time that the other frames dont suffer from. And this is only when comparing hard immunity survival skills, outside of the 3 mentioned frames you also have Chroma, Rhino, Nezha, Inaros, Nidus, Khora, Valkyr and Oberon that are tanky enough without an invulnerability skill. All of them also bring much more damage potential with their kits or TTL for their team, sometimes both. Not only do they bring the survivability, they also dont need their melee (or a special stance for a specific weapon) equipped in order to get around quickly, so they can run around shooting and chopping seamlessly as needed.

Why pick the least offensive frame to get a skill that the offensive frames can get aswell without drawbacks or augments needed in the process? Why go through several extra steps when you can do it in one with the right equipment?

 

Like I said to the other guy, different playstyles. Obviously Nyx isn't a frame for you, since you can't get that same sense of flow and efficiency in her gameplay. I don't recognize the things you describe as "extra steps" or whatever, as it all works very dynamically for me, all depending on situation, equipment, team, mission, enemy, map, etc. It seems like you're just looking at her on paper and pointing out what you think don't work in your head rather from actual gameplay. You just seem too obsessed with numbers and meta to reason with in this matter. 

Sure, assimilate don't work with slide attacks, but do I really need it? No, not with the big swords I usually prefer to use anyway. For example, I tend to use Tempo Royale stance a lot, which has me jumping/leaping all around the place, bouncing groups of enemies up into the air, and just slashing through piles of them at the same time. Even an hour into T4 missions they die fast enough for spawns to barely keep up, so I really see no problem with killrate here. Is it the ultimate most efficient way to kill enemies? No. But is it fun? Very much yes, and that is what matters to me. I also don't feel forced to use specific weapons and mods to make it work, as I switch them around all the time depending on what I feel like and who I'm fighting. Half the fun with Nyx imo is that since she is a very defensive and independent frame you naturally put more focus on your use of guns and melee. The "press 4 to kill everything"-frames are honestly boring me to death. 

And no, absorb is imo superior due to not only how it completely absorbs incoming attacks, but also enemy abilities and knockdowns (except for leeching and nullifying), so you can focus more on steady aiming and killing more efficiently that way. It will also protect your sentinel, and can act as cover for your team mates or an objective. And as someone mentioned above, it will prevent selfdamage from your own explosive weapons. For all that I think the slow walking speed is an acceptable tradeoff, considering there are still several ways around that limitation which is really no biggie when you get used to it. Other frames tough-to-kill mechanics require more attention to maintain, as well as constant evading on high levels since you are not truly invulnerable. 

Another cool thing about Nyx is that since she doesn't make any good use of ability strength, she is one of the few frames that is suitable to use the Power Donation aura to constantly buff your team with a pretty decent amount of extra power strength. Depending on the buffs your team provides, this can be quite rewarding for you as well. Useful when playing with friends at least. 

But honestly all this talk about what's best for the team is actually pretty "meh", considering most people play pub or solo where that kind of efficiency simply does not exist. And to be fair I'm not saying Nyx is a good choice for all types of missions. I especially use Oberon, Rhino, Saryn, and Nova a lot as well. They are not competing with Nyx, as they offer completely different playstyles for different jobs. 

[DanteYoda]

You know this game has issues when you can't even play a warframe as intended without people complaining..

 

Roll on Anthem imo..

[SneakyErvin]

17 hours ago, Eirshy said:

-snip-

Not sure who Brozime is and I doubt very much that it is a sheep thing. Also what are peasant classes? Classes? Are you trying to call players who dont enjoy or like nyx peasants?

Anyways, just that you bring up that she "requires" Arcane Energize to work means she is in a bad position, even when heavy platinum investments dont even take her beyond subpar. I'm also not sure what the "get in the way" refers to. I said she brings nothing that makes her performance with weapons better. Also, please learn to Saryn. You simply bring a Arca P and a Pyrana on her with a long reach melee, that gives you all the range and AoE needed to start the spead, take down Nullifiers (why do you even see them as an issue?) and kill heavy targets. Spore spread is then handled by Miasma, simple as that.

And sure Nyx cant get CCed, but she already has a hard CC on her with assimilate, preventing slide attacks and general mobility among other things. All to achieve what Rev can also do with no drawback, like running around with high explosive weapons blowing up the enemy face to face. And why bring a marksman weapon if you are hall/corridor/CQ fighting? You take all the pointless things and slap them on Nyx as examples of how she is good?

10 hours ago, SirTobe said:

-snip-

While you may not see it as extra steps it is still extra steps. For every extra button you need to press in order to achieve the same thing you take an extra step. She is mobile as a brickwhen it comes to WF movement, yes sure she might be able to get around horizontally (hmm that sounded dirty) through specific weapons and stances, she still doesnt have the fluidity other frames have. Bullet jump and everything else is locked out for her if you want access to her defense, something that isnt the case for other frames. That means she is pretty much confined to fairly "flat" levels and just cant get around as other frames do. Plus if she wants to get around she needs to have her melee equipped, which means no shooting etc. when she moves around on a map.

As you say it isnt the most efficient way to kill enemies, hence why she isnt a top frame, which was my whole point. She simply isnt needed anywhere or for anything, because another frame will simply be a better choice. It is all OK to like her and think that she is fun, but it doesnt make her a top frame. Heck I enjoy Ember, I still think she is in a bad position, same as I enjoy Vauban from time to time. They are still mediocre frames.

Rev also has the same option when it comes to self damage aswell as ignoring heavy hitting mobs high up. Rev is as unkillable versus a level 1 mob as he is versus a level 500 mob when his skin is active. Fire patches can wreck him though if you are really careless. Plus he comes with passive CC, so a mob cant shoot you twice in a row (besides some OV elite mobs).

[ThumpumGood]

On 2019-01-23 at 3:03 PM, Eirshy said:

And only max-range limbo. Min-range is a bro.

ok... I'll give you that. My limbo's void buble is just big enough to protect what needs protecting. HUGE voids are just "You dont get to kill anything... they ALL belong to me." Any time I see a void on the end... I will stand outside it and let it time out. Any time I see a huge void anywhere else... I wander off somewhere it doesnt reach.

 

[Xzorn]

I've played Nyx 900 in-mission hours. She was my main pick CC frame and I can tell you with firm confidence; Nyx has no place in a pub game.

The only thing she can do for team value is Armor strip up to 6 enemies at a time ( if they're still alive ) and shoot her gun.

The reason she was underplayed is her kit being entirely CC was only needed at the highest levels of play where 90% of player's don't go anymore. Esp since Relics. It has nothing to do with Nyx herself but in fact was bite size Warframe aka "The new direction of Warframe" which can be illustrated more clearly through this document....

 

Spoiler

 

Chaos is used to help her team avoid damage but it slows enemy kill rates and wave completions so it's not wanted unless enemy damage is dangerous which doesn't matter in pubs. Her Mind Control is slow and clunky, the AI ridiculous and is mostly a waste of time outside it's original use which was to pacify key units, kill them and drop MC. Her Absorb plays no role outside simple eHP which you can get on frames that offer much more to a group at the levels a pub game generally plays.

Seriously, if it's under lvl 300 enemies and there's a Nyx I would probably just get mad at her and I am/was a Nyx player.

Oh, bright & unnatural work best for Energy color. Her default green isn't bad. Pink, Aquamarine, most of the Easter Color pallet, things like that.

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

On 2019-01-22 at 7:49 AM, Blatantfool said:

 This isn't completely true. Loki can use irradiating disarm but the confusion is actually shorter than chaos. When Nyx uses Chaos on enemies they become unable to operate interactables like Intercept points. Her Chaos is actually better lockdown for that reason.

 On top of that, Disarm has a base range of 20m and Chaos has a base range of 25m at max level. This means Nyx will snag foes from further away and for less energy.

Edit: Since I checked this out for another thread to, posting it here.

 Confusion Duration:

Loki - 9 seconds base. Effected by Ability Duration.

Nyx - 25 seconds base. Effected by Ability Duration.

Range:

Loki - 20m base.

Nyx - 25m base.

 

Except Loki disarms and Nyx only gets the added confusion, which is lackluster at best. Loki's Radial Disarm is still vastly superior as the confusion is optional and the disarm is guaranteed. And let's be honest, a properly modded Radial Disarm has more than enough range for 95% of all tiles.

[XenMaster]

On 2019-01-22 at 6:32 PM, Chewarette said:

Recasting 1 breaks the mind control, resulting in (very often) the death of the mind controlled target

Which you have waste your ammo pumping up on MC target, then after 30 sec of killing every enemy, then you gonna pump it up again.

 

I wish DE still going to rework her and put more tweaks on the AI

[Howtoshootgun]

10 hours ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

Except Loki disarms and Nyx only gets the added confusion, which is lackluster at best. Loki's Radial Disarm is still vastly superior

No dude disarming is bad because then the enemies cant do their superior damage (ps this is sarcasm)

Regarding OPs question with Chaos use:

I guess the only reasons you'd maybe want to pub is maybe arbitration defense (absolutely possible to solo but such a drag) and excavation (excavators die so easily, ya dont pay attention and one droned dude takes half their health) and maybe sorties (if youre not full on trash rivens and endo). When i still did those before i had said trash rivens and vitus coming outta my ears and then a trash rework came around which made me so salty i stopped playing i actually never had anyone complain at me in arbies. Really good pubs on average whereas in "normal" pubs you could get the occasional ADHD 24/7 speedva hydron farmer mewling at you for using chaos (oh no now i gotta run all over the map like a mong to kill those chaosed enemies, diverting me from my routine of running all over the map like a mong to kill not chaosed enemies).

So if you for whatever reasons pub a normal starchart mission i guess be nice and dont spam chaos until theres actual pressure. Its stupid but the OGOGOGOG FAST subset wont pop an artery and everyone is happy. Better advice would prolly be if you actually need to pub anything sub-arbie on the starchart for any other reason than its a boring defense alert or something and having other people around might be entertaining up your Nyx game brah. Or do what you goddamn please and ignore em. Its pub games after all, if they wanted something specific they shoulda used LFG.

On higher levels everyone understands the value of CC in general in my experience. Anyone complaining at you there if you use Chaos well is prolly stupid.

 

 

 

Edited February 5, 2019 by Howtoshootgun

[Marvelous_A]

What I want: don't use her if the mission is about killing stuff coz Chaos messes up enemies pathing and is an unnecessary waste of time.

Also don't mind control anything other than an ancient healer coz all of them deal negligible damage. Don't MC a bombard even if it's an eximus. It's pointless.

[(XBOX)Shodian]

1 hour ago, Marvelous_A said:

Don't MC a bombard even if it's an eximus. It's pointless

I dunno, my 800% damage dealing bombard does pretty well. 😉

[birdobash]

As long as it isnt a mission where you have to kill things to progress (defense, survival if ur chaos is slowing down life support to abysmal amounts) any other mission is generally fine for chaos.

Best missions to use chaos in are interception and mobile defense since killing doesn't affect how fast the mission progresses, otherwise in other missions you're better using mindcontrol and psychic bolts.