These last few days of Nightwave threads are why DE doesn't take the forums seriously.

[TeddyTalker]

People really just feel OCD knowing they can actually miss challenges. Give it time. They will get over it like they get over fortnite season pass challenges being missable

 

[Xylia]

3 hours ago, Xaxma said:

Who's to say it's limited time only?
Who's to say it won't come back?

Who's the say it's exclusive content? 

The only "limited time content" arguable here is the armor set and sigils, which in of themselves aren't only not necessary, but ought to only be rewarded to people who are invested enough to put the effort into them. Last I checked, Nitain, creds, potatoes, helmets, slots, and forma aren't going to magically disappear when the season is over. 60% of the challenges is a fairly reasonable assumption to be making in my opinion if you want to complete all the tiers in a timely fashion, plus you actually get a 3k standing mission on a daily basis if you haven't checked, plus you can randomly get those dudes to capture, which have been hinted as increasing in spawn as the event goes on alongside the Wolf ...

Moreover, why not argue against events as a system? "You snooze you lose" is a mantra repeated throughout life, hon. If you are not there to participate and do your part in an event, in-game or IRL, you miss out. That's how life works. Simple as that. The party does not stop if you not present, it just moves on without you.

You are not forced to do anything, please stop repeating this.

You don't actually NEED to have this armor set and sigil.

You WANT this armor set, alongside the Umbra forma, alongside the mountains of Kuva, alongside the whatever it is you want at higher tiers. Do you know what you do about things you want? You get them. Simple.

If you cannot get it for some reason? If you have an excuse? Nobody cares. Do you have a vacation? Nobody cares. Do you have a family obligation? Nobody cares. Do you have a job that requires every ounce of your time? Nobody cares. YOU are unmotivated, while others are game on this and have already put the work towards the final objective? Nobody cares, I don't want you getting the rewards. Nobody is going to part the red sea and stop the presses because one guy among several can't keep up.

That's the most ridiculous expectation I've ever heard. It's selfish.

I guess the no-lifers gotta have their special shinies to validate having no lives that they can play Warframe 5+ hours per day while the rest of us have jobs and families to tend to, lol. I guess they gotta have something to show off to everybody else that they have all this time to dump into a game, because how dare someone who has a life only get 10 hours a week or so to play Warframe and finds it difficult to get the 30k standing per week to make the minimum cut to get all the stuff that's being offered.

Seems to me it's rather selfish to go "I PLAY THIS GAME FOR WAY LONGER THAN YOU I DESERVE TO HAVE THINGS THAT YOU WILL NEVER GET ACCESS TO!!!", but whatever. *shrugs*

I guess you just need something to feel good about yourself for dumping so much time into one singular game?

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

1 hour ago, Xylia said:

I guess the no-lifers gotta have their special shinies to validate having no lives that they can play Warframe 5+ hours per day while the rest of us have jobs and families to tend to, lol. I guess they gotta have something to show off to everybody else that they have all this time to dump into a game, because how dare someone who has a life only get 10 hours a week or so to play Warframe and finds it difficult to get the 30k standing per week to make the minimum cut to get all the stuff that's being offered.

Seems to me it's rather selfish to go "I PLAY THIS GAME FOR WAY LONGER THAN YOU I DESERVE TO HAVE THINGS THAT YOU WILL NEVER GET ACCESS TO!!!", but whatever. *shrugs*

I guess you just need something to feel good about yourself for dumping so much time into one singular game?

its all weeklies, there is 168 hours in a week, amusing u sleep 8 hours a day and work 8, u still have 65 hours left, and u only need to play 5 total hours in a week, and not even in 1 sitting

and if u dont want to play 5 hours a week? well thats ur problem 

Edited March 4, 2019 by (PS4)Spider_Enigma

[SordidDreams]

23 hours ago, Xaxma said:

New system literally leagues above old system (Lol 500 credits and 12 Plastids) 

If you're an old player thirsty for something, anything to do, yes. For new players it's prety damn harsh, having to grind for things that previously could be earned in a single mission, while also progressing the grind slower due to not being able to do all the challenges.

23 hours ago, Xaxma said:

get way more nitain than you could ever need

Thereby defeating the whole point of it, its scarcity. It now becomes the same as every other resource, just something that accumulates in your inventory until you lose track of how much you even have because you stand no chance of ever running out. The whole point of resources is to make you manage them, if they're so abundant that you never need to do that, they're pointless and might as well not exist.

23 hours ago, Xaxma said:

free weapon and warframe slots; previously a paid feature

Uh, yeah, one of each per two and a half months. Even a new player should be able to farm up enough plat to buy that in that time. It's nice, sure, but nothing to write home about.

23 hours ago, Xaxma said:

free potatoes and forma bundles

free cosmetics

The old system gave you those as well, so that's not a step forward. They take more time to earn than in the old system, so it's actually a step back.

23 hours ago, Xaxma said:

people still complain because they see the rewards being time-gated, despite literally every other facet of warframe being time-gated such as foundry building, day and night cycles, special alerts, mastery, challenges, etc.

Yes, and maybe people are fed up with that precisely because it's everywhere.

23 hours ago, Xaxma said:

choosing beggers

Oh yeah, insult people, that'll go over well. For the record, nobody's a choosing beggar. It's a f2p game, you either pay with money or with your time.

Edited March 4, 2019 by SordidDreams

[Femuru]

tbh i feel that i would of taken the feedback more seriously if players dint type as if theyre screaming at their computer screen instead of taking a step back to look at the system as a whole for over time effect rather than immediate effect as its definitely more beneficial over time but if they gave a clear/calm/reasonable request such as maybe make the ayatan 2 instead of 5, plain runs into general open world runs for choice option, clearer explanation only 60% work is needed to be done to get everything, or perhaps a more consistent way of getting creds throughout instead of getting a large amount after max rank since we are gonna get more once its all finished would all been ideas im fine with but players act as if its the end of the world.

Edited March 4, 2019 by SutomuDrgn

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

8 minutes ago, SutomuDrgn said:

tbh i feel that i would of taken the feedback more seriously if players dint type as if theyre screaming at their computer screen instead of taking a step back to look at the system as a whole for over time effect rather than immediate effect as its definitely more beneficial over time but if they gave a clear/calm/reasonable request such as maybe make the ayatan 2 instead of 5, plain runs into general open world runs for choice option, clearer explanation only 60% work is needed to be done to get everything, or perhaps a more consistent way of getting creds throughout instead of getting a large amount after max rank since we are gonna get more once its all finished would all been ideas im fine with but players act as if its the end of the world.

exactly this and i dont understand why they need to yell at DE as if they r all quitting less its changed

[(PSN)Aneres_Omega]

My main concern is for players that join in too late(past halfway point) to really get anything.

This new system is not new player or true casual players whom have a life, family, and jobs to deal with that can easily prevent them from playing the game the way those who lack any real responsibilities.

 Many work more than 8 hours a day, some work 50 - 80+ hours a week so popping on here and there are about all they can do.

 Then depending on family life some only get a few hours free and they tend to want to spend time with family which limits their time leaving their weekends.

Yes that's extreme example but not unheard-of.

New player example can and most likely will happen.

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

There's going to be more complaining later once players reach max rank of 30 way before the season is even over. "There's nothing left to do. Standing should carry over to the next season. I have no use for those wolf creds. There should be better rewards." DE has the numbers. Who jumps into alerts. Which alert get's the most attendence. What time of day has the most active players. No doubt they took all that into consideration before coming up with this new system.

[ShortCat]

13 hours ago, Xaxma said:

60% of the challenges

It is not 60% of the challenges, but 60% of the weekly standing. This is a huge difference. Miss elites, 1 weekly, 1 daily - done.

Other than that, @(PS4)Jedi_Arts_ dissected your post pretty well. You view this only from your perspective and deny any possibility of other game habbits, and entirely ignore new player experience. Nightwave is not just an addition, it is a replacement for old alert system and as such it fails to deliver in its current state.

 

[Kriegerurteil]

On 2019-03-03 at 3:30 AM, Xaxma said:

>free weapon and warframe slots; previously a paid feature

>free potatoes and forma bundles

>free cosmetics

none of them are "free", you pay with time and things get more and more expensive with each update in that regard, also the old alert system was leagues ahead of what we got now. Nightwave might have worked as an event but to replace the Alerts when it is worse both in terms of mechanics and lore just doesn't work.

[Xzorn]

1 hour ago, ShortCat said:

It is not 60% of the challenges, but 60% of the weekly standing. This is a huge difference. Miss elites, 1 weekly, 1 daily - done

 

Kinda depends if they were factoring those random prisoner spawns. Though I do think they should give more per Encounter.

Killing the Wolf gives no Rep at all which seems very out of place.

[Steel_Rook]

16 hours ago, Xzorn said:

Something that strikes me as odd about the entire process is that Alerts don't feel like they needed to be removed.

That's the long and short of it. If they'd simply left Alerts alone and added Nightwave as an alternative, I'm all but positive that you wouldn't see a fraction of the complaints you're seeing now. There would be some, but not to this extent.

Put it this way: You took away my Inaros and gave me a Rhino Prime instead. Sure, it's a more valuable, harder-to-get trade and it kinda-sorta does the same thing... But I liked my old Inaros a hell of a lot more than I'm ever going to like my new Rhino Prime, and I keep wondering why I couldn't have kept both. What's the downside?

Metaphors aside, I'd argue that simply restoring Alerts in their pre-Nightwave status IN ADDITION to keeping Nightwave as it is now would cut those complaints down to a whisper because the majority of the people complaining would just go back to doing alerts. And who knows, maybe they'll even eventually transition to Nightwave on their own terms. But I personally see no downside to keeping both systems, because they're barely related at all.

[Xylia]

6 hours ago, ShortCat said:

It is not 60% of the challenges, but 60% of the weekly standing. This is a huge difference. Miss elites, 1 weekly, 1 daily - done.

Other than that, @(PS4)Jedi_Arts_ dissected your post pretty well. You view this only from your perspective and deny any possibility of other game habbits, and entirely ignore new player experience. Nightwave is not just an addition, it is a replacement for old alert system and as such it fails to deliver in its current state.

 

^^

This right here.

Some of the Elites are ridiculous, but they count for a HUGE part of the standing. I mean, c'mon, 60 minute Kuva Survival? You're kidding me, right? I hate long missions because one DC or botched Host Migration means you lose EVERYTHING.

[Xaxma]

18 hours ago, Xylia said:

I guess the no-lifers gotta have their special shinies to validate having no lives that they can play Warframe 5+ hours per day while the rest of us have jobs and families to tend to, lol. I guess they gotta have something to show off to everybody else that they have all this time to dump into a game, because how dare someone who has a life only get 10 hours a week or so to play Warframe and finds it difficult to get the 30k standing per week to make the minimum cut to get all the stuff that's being offered.

Seems to me it's rather selfish to go "I PLAY THIS GAME FOR WAY LONGER THAN YOU I DESERVE TO HAVE THINGS THAT YOU WILL NEVER GET ACCESS TO!!!", but whatever. *shrugs*

I guess you just need something to feel good about yourself for dumping so much time into one singular game?

>never get access to
>literally ignore entire premise of previous reply

lol ok

I am a manager in fast food work, if that's indication to how much time I have to spend away from home. I can still get this nightwatch thing done. If I can't, then I can't.

Get on my level.

[CarrotSalad]

17 hours ago, SutomuDrgn said:

tbh i feel that i would of taken the feedback more seriously if players dint type as if theyre screaming

Its the voice in your head thats screaming. Thats these meta complaints in a nutshell.. People can only read these from the most extreme angles.. lol

[(PSN)Aneres_Omega]

5 minutes ago, CarrotSalad said:

Its the voice in your head thats screaming. Thats these meta complaints in a nutshell.. People can only read these from the most extreme angles.. lol

Agreed.

Unless people are typing in all caps then they are not screaming, or did some forgotten that?

[Tzolkat]

Okay, so in my opinion the Nightwave system has some strong points, and some weak points. On the one hand, it is an improvement over dealing with the 'snooze-you-lose' nature of RNG with the old system. On the other, it seems to have been balanced around aggregate data about the playerbase as a whole, without taking into account outlier cases that would skew the average significantly towards 'playing more than is healthy', often repeating the same things over and over to amass large amounts of some resource. As a result, you get challenges like 'you have less than a week to slot 5 ayatans', or 'give yourself a repetitive motion injury by staying in a survival mission for an amount of time many would consider warped'. These clearly need a bit of balancing, and from what I heard on the devstream, DE seems to realize that.

The old system also had strong points and weak points. One of their strongest points was that they were spontaneous, which was great for public matchmaking on alert nodes. Additionally, lower level alerts were a boon to very new players, both because of the ease of matchmaking and the resource rewards. Imagine a level 7-10 survival alert that rewarded players with an Orokin Cell, and how that would affect a brand new player. They can't yet reach a planet that drops those on their own, but acquiring just one of them opens the door to building so many things that will be critical for them as they progress.

That is why this thread has convinced me that both Nightwave and the old alerts system could exist just fine in the same space with some adjustments. It's technically still in the game code, because DE can still push Gift of the Lotus alerts and other special cases. The way I would envision it working is like this:

There would be 4 tiers of alerts, much like that of void fissures, with up to 6 available at a time. Tiers 1 and 2 could have up to 2 alerts going at a time, while tiers 3 and 4 would have one each. The bottom two tiers would offer varying amounts of credits along with some amount of a resource that drops on a planet with enemies in the tier 3 or 4 range, respectively. Obviously, the lower tier alerts would be mostly skippable for veteran players, but they would be a boon to newbies. Tier 3 and 4 alerts would offer some amount of Nightwave creds or standing (one or the other, not both). This would correct for the net loss in reward-for-play when comparing alerts to the creds store, either by directly adding to the number of creds players can get, or allowing more players to reach rank 30 and potentially gain more credits via prestiging.

After you do an alert, it disappears for you and you cannot earn the reward again by repeating it with someone else (traditional alert behavior), so DE could easily balance this concept by changing the length alerts stick around. Maybe they refresh every 4 hours instead of hourly, because most of the trivial/trash/one-time drops (with respect to your level of progression) have been taken out of rotation.

[Xylia]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Aneres_Omega said:

Agreed.

Unless people are typing in all caps then they are not screaming, or did some forgotten that?

Basically, this works like any MMORPG forum, pretty much.

Any time someone posts something they don't agree with, it's "crying" or "whining" or "screaming" (even if it's well-articulated, and perfect grammar and typography). Basically, they don't like the opinion, they don't agree with the opinion, so they have to attack the opinion by belittling it, or trivializing it, or they will attack the person giving the opinion.

The former is basically a Strawman is probably the easiest way to describe it, and the latter is simply an Ad Hominem attack.

It just gets old after awhile.

EDIT: I would also argue that all-caps doesn't even automatically mean yelling/screaming, because sometimes it is done for EMPHASIS, especially if someone doesn't feel like using BBCode or clicking the buttons to format.

 

As for Alerts, I had an idea earlier today:

 

Have 3 tiers of alerts: Common, Uncommon, Rare.

Commons are around for 2 hours, 12 times a day. When one expires another immediately takes its place and it rotates through a list of Common Materials.

Uncommons are around for 4 hours, 6 times a day. When one expires, another immediately takes its place and it rotates through a list of Not-So-Common Materials (Morphics, Oxium, the faction resources, etc).

Rare is for stuff like Orokin Cells, Neural Sensors, Neurodes, Argon Crystals, Tellurium, etc and they are around for 6 hours, 4 times per day, the next popping when the previous expired.

 

All of these should go through the entire list, but randomized, the list resetting when all of them have spawned once.

That way, there will always be 3 Resource Alerts up at any given time (until/unless the player completes one of course), and it gives players opportunities to target resources whenever they're up. I miss the 150 Oxium Alerts, for example. Yeah sure you can do missions and sometimes get 30-50 Oxium in a Capture or what-not.... but yet other times you do the same mission and you only get 10. It was nice to have that extra little buffer to beat the RNG and get guaranteed results once in awhile.

Edited March 4, 2019 by Xylia

[Femuru]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Aneres_Omega said:

Agreed.

Unless people are typing in all caps then they are not screaming, or did some forgotten that?

the ppl typing in caps are the ones im talking about lmao

[(PSN)Aneres_Omega]

2 minutes ago, SutomuDrgn said:

the ppl typing in caps are the ones im talking about lmao

I was actually referencing Xax.

[Xaxma]

22 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

If you're an old player thirsty for something, anything to do, yes. For new players it's prety damn harsh, having to grind for things that previously could be earned in a single mission, while also progressing the grind slower due to not being able to do all the challenges.

Thereby defeating the whole point of it, its scarcity. It now becomes the same as every other resource, just something that accumulates in your inventory until you lose track of how much you even have because you stand no chance of ever running out. The whole point of resources is to make you manage them, if they're so abundant that you never need to do that, they're pointless and might as well not exist.

>resources must be managed
>resources that are abundant might as well not exist
Okay, then get rid of Plastids, Alloy, Ferrite, Rubedo, Nano Spores, Oxium, Control Modules, Cryorite, Neurodes, etc.
Actually, let's also just build things for free.
>players hate time-gated things
Get rid of Foundry build time, day and night cycle, etc too. Solves "pain" of paying with time and money.

Did you actually have a reason to reply to me or are you just gonna keep contradicting yourself in angst?

Edited March 5, 2019 by Xaxma

[birdobash]

The only issues I have with the new system is that they're abnormally less accessible to newer players than old alerts (but the rewards are much better than the old system) and somewhat strange challenges such as the stated slot 5 austan sculptures mission (although it was really easy for me since I never slot my sculptures).

Now we know that daily missions stack until the end of the week, meaning you're technically not obligated to log in everyday to meet your quota, you're able to theoretically finish all nightwave missions from an entire week in 1 really hardcore gaming session, which is something I wished other syndicates from open world would do because those feel hella time gated.

I agree that a minority with a loud voice on the forums sort of exaggerates certain issues that may be small but they point them out as if they're game breaking or immoral, some do have points, but a system without any sort of flaws that pleases the entire playerbase is hard and maybe even impossible to achieve. Personally in my clan theres only 1 guy who sort of complains about the nightwaves but he/she/it/they still agree that it's probably better than the old alerts.

Edited March 5, 2019 by birdobash

[Xylia]

1 hour ago, Xaxma said:

>resources must be managed
>resources that are abundant might as well not exist
Okay, then get rid of Plastids, Alloy, Ferrite, Rubedo, Nano Spores, Oxium, Control Modules, Cryorite, Neurodes, etc.
Actually, let's also just build things for free.
>players hate time-gated things
Get rid of Foundry build time, day and night cycle, etc too. Solves "pain" of paying with time and money.

Did you actually have a reason to reply to me or are you just gonna keep contradicting yourself in angst?

Did you actually have a reason to reply to them, or are you just gonna keep throwing out Strawmans?

Because you failed to actually address the actual points they made.

[SordidDreams]

1 hour ago, Xaxma said:

Okay, then get rid of Plastids, Alloy, Ferrite, Rubedo, Nano Spores, Oxium, Control Modules, Cryorite, Neurodes, etc.
Actually, let's also just build things for free.

Well that's one option, and not such a bad one IMO. These resources serve a purpose in the early game, but there comes a point where they become irrelevant. There are some games that just outright ditch entire gameplay mechanics and systems once you progress far enough, and I'd love to see DE experiment with that.

The other option is of course to introduce deep resource sinks so make these resources relevant again even in endgame, though the obvious problem with that is that there are tons of people with ridiculous stockpiles of them. That's why DE introduces new resources with every new bit of content, because that way everyone has to grind and veteran players can't just buy and build everything immediately. That's the easy solution, but it does result in a cluttered and messy game.

1 hour ago, Xaxma said:

>players hate time-gated things
Get rid of Foundry build time, day and night cycle, etc too. Solves "pain" of paying with time and money.

That would be awesome, but unfortunately WF is a f2p game and as such the devs have to insert such inconveniences into the game and then monetize their removal.

1 hour ago, Xaxma said:

Did you actually have a reason to reply to me or are you just gonna keep contradicting yourself in angst?

Yes, I do have a reason, though you're not it.

 

Edited March 5, 2019 by SordidDreams

[Xylia]

I really wish these forums would let you edit quotes instead of giving you a stupid WYSIWYG editor that will NOT let you break quote blocks up. Anyways....

Well that's one option, and not such a bad one IMO. These resources serve a purpose in the early game, but there comes a point where they become irrelevant. There are some games that just outright ditch entire gameplay mechanics and systems once you progress far enough, and I'd love to see DE experiment with that.

I've never played a such game myself, but I will say that sometimes some resources feel somewhat irrelevant. When I'm sitting on several hundred thousand nano spores, I have to ask myself 'what is the point of these anymore'?

I don't know if I'd advocate for their removal or for making them not necessary past a certain point though.

But I can understand the sentiment of them feeling useless. I suppose it's just there for technicality or flavor, perhaps.

The other option is of course to introduce deep resource sinks so make these resources relevant again even in endgame, though the obvious problem with that is that there are tons of people with ridiculous stockpiles of them.

They tried that with some things like the consumable gear requiring ridiculous amounts of stuff like Nano Spores, but sadly the things they introduced are things that nobody cares about.

What I'd love to see, is something like 1000 Salvage + 2000 Ferrite = 2 Neural Sensors. Or perhaps 1000 Plastids + 2000 Nano Spores = 2 Neurodes.

That would be awesome.

That's why DE introduces new resources with every new bit of content, because that way everyone has to grind and veteran players can't just buy and build everything immediately. That's the easy solution, but it does result in a cluttered and messy game.

^^

THIS THIS THIS so much THIS.

The game feels so convoluted and messy now with all kinds of different game systems, all of these resources that are only used for this, that, and that over there, different things that feel rather disconnected from each other, that the whole game feels like a big pile of ideas that is somewhat lacking cohesion.

Not saying Warframe is a bad game, I just think that some of this stuff could use a smoothing pass to smooth some of this stuff out, and make it feel more interconnected.