We need to talk, DE.

[Toppien]

Justo ahora, Zeclem dijo:

and what good is that gonna do for the frame? a good majority of the tilesets arent made for that, it would be just a clunky feature that nobody is gonna be relying on. tail wind at least gets the job of quick movement done. 

look at titania and hildryn, thats what we wanted for the mayority of tilesets, im forced to play titania over zephyr on those maps cuz titania's movement system when flying actually works, and i dont think theres much being asked, just a better controll for zephyr while in the air, a more durable hover, but no, apparently new frames get that priority

[Zeclem]

3 minutes ago, Toppien said:

look at titania and hildryn, thats what we wanted for the mayority of tilesets, im forced to play titania over zephyr on those maps cuz titania's movement system when flying actually works, and i dont think theres much being asked, just a better controll for zephyr while in the air, a more durable hover, but no, apparently new frames get that priority

so you wanted a quick movement skill to be changed to either a hovering skill thats stupidly slow(which doesnt fit the theme at all btw) or an archwing ult that doesnt make sense on zephyr's theme of being a wind warrior. got it. and the hover she gets on tailwind is pretty damn enough. 

also drop this act like what you want is what community wants. i use zephyr too, and im very much happy with her airborne potential. 

Edited March 9, 2019 by Zeclem

[Toppien]

hace 1 minuto, Zeclem dijo:

so you wanted a quick movement skill to be changed to either a hovering skill thats stupidly slow(which doesnt fit the theme at all btw) or an archwing ult that doesnt make sense on zephyr's theme of being a wind warrior. got it. and the hover she gets on tailwind is pretty damn enough. 

being honest my only problem is that mediocre hover zephyr has right now (tho changing the one direction jump for a really fast hover seems more fun),and dont bs me is enough cuz its not, its literally a stay frozen in an awkard position for a jokingly short period, just look at this:

what is this? "oh give me a minute to charge my hov-" ups too late you are already dead, not to mention the height linked to charge time is just dumb, many times i end up hitting the sealing of even the big room tilesets

now what is this? you cant move! what a nice feature!, it even lasts and behaves the same as aimglide for some reason...lets try the normal aim glide that works on every warframe...

oh wait IT was an aim glide with a really long charge time, uncontrolled height and with no movement while gliding, wow, oh sure it is enough for zephyr, well designed too, not at all just a copy/pasted mechanic slapped on top of another with more inconveniences, oh no...

[Zeclem]

*facepalm* you do realize, its easier to shoot things when you are stationary right? thats why it doesnt have movement, cus as you said, thats the job of aimglide. also, i cant stress this enough, use turbulence and stop complaining. 

[Lord-Taco-the-Great]

On 2019-03-06 at 6:54 PM, moooooski said:

Man the games free u getting frames if u don't like it don't play it simple its free don't complain.

I dont agree with every point OP makes, but this is honestly a terrible argument to make. The good ol "it's free, don't complain" line has been around since I joined the game in 2013, and never accomplishes anything. The consumer has a lot of say over what happens in game, just look at vacuum. I remember there being a firm "no" from the devs eons ago, and what changed it was consumer based feedback. Also, insinuating that OP not play warframe anymore just because of a few problems with a couple warframes seems like making a mountain out of a molehill. OP can enjoy the game while also criticizing it.

[Toppien]

hace 18 minutos, Zeclem dijo:

*facepalm* you do realize, its easier to shoot things when you are stationary right? thats why it doesnt have movement, cus as you said, thats the job of aimglide. also, i cant stress this enough, use turbulence and stop complaining. 

 

OMG  loosen up the blindfold a little dude, the changes to tailwind were mediocre and that hover is just painfull to use,its evident, and you know it, you are just defending a lost argument here.

use turbulence? ive been using it since zephyr came out, but guess what, thats not the only skill that should work properly on her

either DE fix their bs or they remove the description for zephyr "dominating from above" cuz she doesnt fly nor hovers, she just jumps

[Zeclem]

6 minutes ago, Toppien said:

 

OMG  loosen up the blindfold a little dude, the changes to tailwind were mediocre and that hover is just painfull to use,its evident, and you know it, you are just defending a lost argument here.

use turbulence? ive been using it since zephyr came out, but guess what, thats not the only skill that should work properly on her

either DE fix their bs or they remove the description for zephyr "dominating from above" cuz she doesnt fly nor hovers, she just jumps

so because i disagree with your tantrum filled ideas, i have a blindfold? alright, so much for a proper discussion. go be salty in your own corner i guess.

[Toppien]

hace 22 minutos, Zeclem dijo:

so because i disagree with your tantrum filled ideas, i have a blindfold? alright, so much for a proper discussion. go be salty in your own corner i guess.

says the one that thinks calling people salty is a good escape to respond properly, the level of hypocresy in your comment XD

[Deimorne]

On 2019-03-07 at 12:09 AM, ObviousLee said:

magnets require a magnetic field to be isolated in its current along predetermined pathings in order to facilitate controlled oppositional forces of magnetism. Hyldrn does not follow those laws based on whats been presented from her kit. but that could be updated upon release.

You're arguing about scientific laws in a game where you play futuristic space ninjas who have organic metal skin... I honestly can't believe someone is this upset over something this trivial. Seriously, like so many have said already, if you're not happy, fine, you can voice your opinion, but trust me, moaning this much won't change anything. I personally don't have any real issue with her ability to FLOAT/HOVER (not fly) and it seems most people feel the same.

 

There's no issue here of other frames being stepped on or overlooked or even getting more favour than others. You need to also take into consideration that when the abilities of the frames are created/re-worked, they have to be so careful to make them unique and not make them similar or at least too similar to the abilities of other frames. Another thing to take into consideration is that Hildryn is the first frame to have no energy, she uses her shields. DE likely juggled several kinds of ideas before concluding the set she has was the best option for her. (At least for the time being.) Overall, her abilities are just what they are, her abilities. I see no real overshadowing of any other frame when it comes to Hildryn. I like her, but nothing about her makes me want to play her more than others nor do I also feel that she's been given an unfair one-up over other frames I play.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

On 2019-03-08 at 11:07 AM, (PS4)caoshen0625 said:

Now that Hildryn is out we can safely say her 4 cannot use as a movement skill. It's more like an ability that aesthetically lifts you in the air. Call it flight or not, you won't use it to fly, will you? 

I personally think zepher has the best "fly" skills in the game, cos it's fast and safe, unlike titania (I hate archwing's movement control and she is just too fragile)... I know you want a controlled flight ability, which zepher's1 is not, but I don't think she had it worth than titania and hildryn. 

Someone tell me how long it takes helga or whatever to "fly" from one side of orb vallis to the other. Then someone tell me how fast zephyr can do it. Then someone tell me how Hillary can fly better.

But oh no we gotta have people arguing about what "flight" is.

Both of their aerial abilities are different.

Zephyr is mediocre because 1 ability is just bad except for CC to a degree, maybe, her flight is complete useless in MOST of the game, her divebomb doesnt have enough radius, direction, or damage to be useful, and the tornadoes are inconsistent. Her best ability is turbulence but there are other frames that can tank or avoid damage that dont have a gimped kit.

 

None of these things are hindenbergers fault.

[seprent]

1 hour ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

hindenbergers

i read that as dinkleberg then Edinburgh and then Lindbergh before reading it as Hindenburger 

now i want a hamburger   

[lennieplop60]

This is a joke, right?

[sorinmarkauv]

I totally think it would be cool if zephyr could fly! it would be cool if her 2 was more useful at least!!!!!!!!!! i am so glad the rework changed her 1 and its really nice. but the 2 doesnt seem to live up to its new rework maybe with that she could use it to throw a single tornado (with large tornado!!!!!) and her 4 gives flight with the ability to channel her 1. so it would just turn on the ability to cast 1 for free with a faster speed but lower range and infinite glide time with her 1's ability to hover, all the time! idk cool ideas

[ObviousLee]

On 2019-03-08 at 9:52 PM, Zeclem said:

ok this is just too funny not to reply. but first, legit answers.

1-zephyr doesnt have any more anim lock on her 1 after her rework. you can cast tailwind downwards to get out of it, just like before.

2-zephyr's 3 got a slightly longer animation cus it completely eliminates any kind of non melee attack. now rest of her kit is actually usable a slight compensation nerf was needed. and dont tell me it was some "huge" nerf to wait for half a second before casting it, i wont buy it. 

3-zephyr doesnt have flight surfaces, none of her surfaces are shaped or widened properly create lift. none. zero. it matters little (realism in this game lol) but i had to explain it since this never stopped being one of your main arguments. 

ok now, less legit answers.

1-i am an aerospace engineer in training. im building an army of little drones to bomb every oil resevre in the world so nobody is gonna fight over them anymore, and thus, bring world peace.

2-i have expert degree on every military flight simulator programming across the globe. remember that unbeatable planes in the model XI-53? that was my self inserted character.

3-i led the royal airforce in world war 2 into victory by using my time machine that i stole from doctor pilot, who is also secretly, a pilot. 

You're right. I actually legit forgot that the only way to get out of tailwind is to use more power. Tim Taylor would approve. Except that doesn't allow you to change vector, or avoid slamming into walls.

and in response to your non-legit answers? Basically amounts to experience and knowledge is worthless. Nice.

On 2019-03-09 at 9:07 AM, FlusteredFerret said:

Thats hilarious! 

 

I suspect the answer is far more likely to do with people getting far too salty, which the mods tend to deal with fairly swiftly, if its considered unconstructive / off topic / abusive / trolling etc.

 

It always amuses me just how heated people can get over the most trivial of matters.

 

If its trivial to you, why bother even responding? What I find amusing is how people with either nothing or very little invested in the frame that's in question herecome simply to oppose when it won't really affect them.

On 2019-03-09 at 9:31 AM, Zeclem said:

and what good is that gonna do for the frame? a good majority of the tilesets arent made for that, it would be just a clunky feature that nobody is gonna be relying on. tail wind at least gets the job of quick movement done. 

On 2019-03-09 at 9:42 AM, Zeclem said:

so you wanted a quick movement skill to be changed to either a hovering skill thats stupidly slow(which doesnt fit the theme at all btw) or an archwing ult that doesnt make sense on zephyr's theme of being a wind warrior. got it. and the hover she gets on tailwind is pretty damn enough. 

also drop this act like what you want is what community wants. i use zephyr too, and im very much happy with her airborne potential. 

Maybe if you'd read my flight mechanic rework, you'd know that what you're saying isn't what we want. We want fast, controlled flight and the hover mechanic to have an actual use. If hildryn's flight mode were the new hover for zephyr, and we had a more high speed version for other than "stationary" flight, it'd be exactly as we want it.

And by, the way, it is what the community wanted. every. single. time. it was brought up. When DE asked actual zephyr mains, you know, those of us with millions of affinity and an overwhelming usage rating versus time played? They did that. They reached out to me, another named CaptainBMF, and a few others with as they put it "extraordinary" usage. We all wanted some form of controlled flight. Thaylien made a series of(although I disagree with the direction they wanted) fantastic aerial reworks that could have still been better than turkey mode.

What did we get? Turkey mode. The hover mechanic hyldrin got? suggested for Zephyr. The flight mode Titania got? requested for Zephyr. Granted yes Titania uses archwing mechanics, and yes she has her size reduced.

However, the introduction of Zephyr in U12 saw the increase in hall width, and height as well as widening several open tilesets by several meters. They adjusted the playspace to acomodate something that broke from mechanical and traditional norms at the time. 

Now? We have archwing with the use of normal weapons. We have massive open spaces. And all that would need happen for Tailwind to give zephyr players of all playstyles what they want, is already present in the mechanic as it currently functions. Literally only needs to be re-aligned.

So, please, if you're going to argue against myself, know what you're talking about? Don't sit there trying to tell us what we want isn't going to work when you don't even know what we want.

 

On 2019-03-09 at 1:33 PM, Saratheia said:

You're arguing about scientific laws in a game where you play futuristic space ninjas who have organic metal skin... I honestly can't believe someone is this upset over something this trivial. Seriously, like so many have said already, if you're not happy, fine, you can voice your opinion, but trust me, moaning this much won't change anything. I personally don't have any real issue with her ability to FLOAT/HOVER (not fly) and it seems most people feel the same.

 

There's no issue here of other frames being stepped on or overlooked or even getting more favour than others. You need to also take into consideration that when the abilities of the frames are created/re-worked, they have to be so careful to make them unique and not make them similar or at least too similar to the abilities of other frames. Another thing to take into consideration is that Hildryn is the first frame to have no energy, she uses her shields. DE likely juggled several kinds of ideas before concluding the set she has was the best option for her. (At least for the time being.) Overall, her abilities are just what they are, her abilities. I see no real overshadowing of any other frame when it comes to Hildryn. I like her, but nothing about her makes me want to play her more than others nor do I also feel that she's been given an unfair one-up over other frames I play.

And that is your view. Your view doesn't super-cede the view of anyone else, and it's quite rude to declare that something trivial to you, should be trivial to others. Those of us who fell in love with the frame at launch have used her for years as a favorite. I myself mained her exclusively for close to three years straight. So, when the developers ask those of us who are deeply attached to the frame what it is we'd like to see in her next balance pass. and the desired change is almost unanimous for "we want her to fly" and what we get is not "she can fly" but "she's the turkey of the sky" and now hyldrin has something that we genuinely feel would have been a massive QoL buff for our beloved zephyr.

 

This, is the issue. We are tired of being asked specifically what it is we want about a specific frame that we choose to sink time into, only for the things we ask for in direct relation to being asked what we want, being given to another frame without so much as a "sorry bruh it wouldn't have worked" as a response.

[Syndrella]

I am not bothered with the fly no fly question but good to see this simple mechanic got a huge attention here. I can actually imagine that Zephyr will fly once because her de de de DElayed deluxe skin had wings and that indicate she can get something related to fly. Even if she just get jets hidden in her armor then we can say space magic and accept the fact she fly. The current way is bursting herself which means she has a built in jumper / engine inside her armor so basically they could turn her out to similar like the grineer helions. If they want to go different way and make her able to fly like a bird then they can add an energy wing set so you can customize her wings also become able to fly for more duration. There is always options how to make it her able to fly but it depends on the devs vision mostly so if they did not do that then it is simply because they see her differently. No need to find logic about she is a bird in look because there are birds which cannot fly. The best example is Ember our number one chicken.

[Zeclem]

4 hours ago, ObviousLee said:

You're right. I actually legit forgot that the only way to get out of tailwind is to use more power. Tim Taylor would approve. Except that doesn't allow you to change vector, or avoid slamming into walls.

and in response to your non-legit answers? Basically amounts to experience and knowledge is worthless. Nice.

your "experience" means nothing to the scale of this game, and i very highly doubt its relevant to the scale of actual engineering, for you somehow think that zephyr has flight surfaces when she clearly does not have any. 

and it was always like that before the rework, so idk why are you complaining about. but ofc you will deny that you are wrong so whatever.

Quote

Maybe if you'd read my flight mechanic rework, you'd know that what you're saying isn't what we want. We want fast, controlled flight and the hover mechanic to have an actual use. If hildryn's flight mode were the new hover for zephyr, and we had a more high speed version for other than "stationary" flight, it'd be exactly as we want it.

why would i read your rework suggestion when at every single comment you made on this thread was attacking de and/or attacking those who point out your bullcrap? zephyr is fine. 

Quote

And by, the way, it is what the community wanted. every. single. time. it was brought up. When DE asked actual zephyr mains, you know, those of us with millions of affinity and an overwhelming usage rating versus time played? They did that. They reached out to me, another named CaptainBMF, and a few others with as they put it "extraordinary" usage. We all wanted some form of controlled flight. Thaylien made a series of(although I disagree with the direction they wanted) fantastic aerial reworks that could have still been better than turkey mode.

yeah, i still dont see any proof that backs up this claim. like, none at all. communities arent made up of people who have "millions of affinity" btw. 

Quote

What did we get? Turkey mode. The hover mechanic hyldrin got? suggested for Zephyr. The flight mode Titania got? requested for Zephyr. Granted yes Titania uses archwing mechanics, and yes she has her size reduced.

oh please every frame has a skill that was suggested for another by the community. 

Quote

However, the introduction of Zephyr in U12 saw the increase in hall width, and height as well as widening several open tilesets by several meters. They adjusted the playspace to acomodate something that broke from mechanical and traditional norms at the time. 

good on them

Quote

Now? We have archwing with the use of normal weapons. We have massive open spaces. And all that would need happen for Tailwind to give zephyr players of all playstyles what they want, is already present in the mechanic as it currently functions. Literally only needs to be re-aligned.

"literally only needs to be realigned" did you ever actually code anything in your life? and please stop pretending as if you represent the community when you still dont have any proof towards it.

Quote

So, please, if you're going to argue against myself, know what you're talking about? Don't sit there trying to tell us what we want isn't going to work when you don't even know what we want.

oh i know what im talking about, more than you do about aerospace engineering appearently. since you are clearly putting words in my mouth as if i was talking against whole group of people when all i did was reply to 2 people and adressed them and them only. but hey, keep claiming that you have expertise in the field as if realism was ever a reasonable point of argument in this games design. 

Edited March 11, 2019 by Zeclem

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

7 hours ago, ObviousLee said:

*snip*

Honestly the arguments here and this thread make me hope DE nerfs zephyr just because.

 

Evidently DE doesnt share your opinion of what zephyr "should do" and no amount of snark to other forum users is likely to change that.

Sitting here arguing about what "real" flight is, is just silly.

Not every frame needs to be, can be, or should be too tier.

[LustAndLace]

For a wind based frame, as much as I hate to say I would like it if she were Japanese themed and based on Temari rather than a mutant bird fish. Hear me out.

Fan weapon she keeps on her waist that can grow in size Monkey King staff style so when she pulls it out for skills it grows as big as her.

 

First ability would be a front facing cone shaped wind blast with the fan that applies "razorburn" (or some aptly named) debuff.

Second ability sends out a bunch of little tornadoes that shoots gusts of wind out sort of like mobile turrets and proc the "razorburn" debuff to weaken defenses so everyone can hit them harder this way it actually gives her some team based utility.

Third ability she'd bring out the fan and spin to win Garen style keeping the reflect projectile theme while doing serious damage to baddies close enough. She should be able to levitate slightly off the ground in this form to give more freedom of movement to the spinny part. Make her immune to movement impairing effects for the duration. 

Her ultimate she would mount the fan surf board style, be able to fly around freely and bombard the area with wind bullet barrages laughing manically the entire time. If they had the "razorburn" debuff and it was triggered by her second skill, her ultimate would make them hurt themselves when they attack or use an ability. Could even make it bypass boss armor to make her the go-to boss killer frame. Obviously the weakness here would be she can still get knocked outta air like you can in the open world areas of Earth and Venus. 

 

Maybe it sounds awful to you but I think that's a hellavuh lot cooler thematically than a fish-bird that gets stuck in walls, corridors and ceilings. 

Edited March 11, 2019 by LustAndLace

[Midas]

On 2019-03-06 at 6:59 PM, ObviousLee said:

Hovering, and hover is a method of flight.

Zephyr can hover.

[xXIcyBladeXx]

*sees a "DE LISTEN" post in General* 

Yikes.

 

 

 

 

[xXIcyBladeXx]

How is Hyldrin being able to hover make less sense than Titania being able to Shrink her entire body including attachments and fly around with butterflies...

Its a sci-fi   f a n t a s y  game. Theres alot of other frames that can do things that can only be explained with "Orokin tech amrite?"

[ObviousLee]

5 hours ago, Zeclem said:

your "experience" means nothing to the scale of this game, and i very highly doubt its relevant to the scale of actual engineering, for you somehow think that zephyr has flight surfaces when she clearly does not have any. 

and it was always like that before the rework, so idk why are you complaining about. but ofc you will deny that you are wrong so whatever.

why would i read your rework suggestion when at every single comment you made on this thread was attacking de and/or attacking those who point out your bullcrap? zephyr is fine. 

yeah, i still dont see any proof that backs up this claim. like, none at all. communities arent made up of people who have "millions of affinity" btw. 

oh please every frame has a skill that was suggested for another by the community. 

good on them

"literally only needs to be realigned" did you ever actually code anything in your life? and please stop pretending as if you represent the community when you still dont have any proof towards it.

oh i know what im talking about, more than you do about aerospace engineering appearently. since you are clearly putting words in my mouth as if i was talking against whole group of people when all i did was reply to 2 people and adressed them and them only. but hey, keep claiming that you have expertise in the field as if realism was ever a reasonable point of argument in this games design. 

 

.I'm asking a genuine question here, with no actual hostility in my tone voice or what I'm attempting to communicate: Can you actually read? Is someone reading this to you, for you?

Show me exactly where I have attacked DE for starters, then by all means show me every post you claim I attacked them. Considering the scathing climate of "overprotection" on the forums and in game with censorship and the like, one would think that this thread would have already been deleted by someone if it were bashing or inflammatory in nature.

 

And yet, it lives. You think I've not gotten posts reported in this thread? You do realize that someone has come through and deleted several posts, yet this thread remains.

So again, can you read? Or at the least comprehend what you read?

No flight surfaces? guess those things on her forearm aren't canards and it's definitely not an empennage between her legs.

Doesn't read rework suggestion, but knows it won't work. Is this some kind of joke? What mystic psychic lands do you hail from, oh mighty Time Wizard?

putting words in your mouth? You literally have no idea what it that we want and you sit and criticize what we're asking for.

Lemme put this in clear words. That, is lunacy. Your argument boils down to, quite literally I might add " I don't know what you want but it won't work because it's stupid" as you pour boiling oil over your face. You're entirely ignorant on something that's easily accessible and you refuse to inform yourself, but still insist it won't work.

So, if you're going to continue to make asinine claims about how we're attacking developer staff members(not true) and tell us all how what we want that you don't even understand isn't possible(also not true) then please cease from adding your uninformed opinion out there? We who actually play the frame with frequent to full use kinda don't need someone telling us what we want. we kinda know, we want her to fly.

[Zeclem]

holy crap you are truly hopeless. its not even funny anymore. stop projecting for once and read the stuff you have been writing for past days dude. 

[ObviousLee]

49 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

holy crap you are truly hopeless. its not even funny anymore. stop projecting for once and read the stuff you have been writing for past days dude. 

Naw pimp. You made the accusation, burden of proof falls on you.

Show me where I bashed the developers, or retract your statement.

[(PSN)LeBlingKing]

YO, HOLY CRAP, THIS THREAD IS STILL OPEN?! Has long has it been? Like, a week? Two? 

DUDE, you ever heard of a flightless bird? There are multiple species of them!

Just because Zephyr's aesthetic (birb) is ONE thing doesn't mean it HAS to be incorporated with her theme (wind).

Besides, so what if Heather, or Hilda or whatever the hell her name is has a propulsion super? Try flying from one corner of the Plains to another using Aegis Storm.

Then use Zephyr and her Tail Wind, and see who makes it further.

LOOK! It evens says so on her ability wiki:

Activating Tail Wind multiple times allows Zephyr to propel herself farther into the air, effectively simulating flight.

SIMULATING FLIGHT. 

I don't know where in this topic you bashed anyone, if you even bashed anyone, and even if you did, unintentionally or intentionally, I don't care. But this thread has got to be one of the most baseless, POINTLESS arguments I have seen in my 2+ years browsing this forum.

I'm sorry DE hurt your little pilot feelings, but they're the ones making the game, and every decision they make doesn't revolve around you.