This new melee thing makes me not want to play warframe.

[Cephalycion]

I don't think people know what is the meaning of first phase.

The devs are only giving us a peek into melee 3.0, and the rest of the work needed to fully implement melee 3.0 is probably already underway. The fact that melee 2.5 didn't break the whole system is a good sign. 

It will get better.

[Arocken]

8 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

Force-equipping melee weapons on strike has many flaws.

1. Stance melee ruins your freedom of movement. It's got combos that force you to either stop moving or which forcefully move you in some direction which you're not actively pushing the WASD keys to move towards. Those combos get triggered by trying to move around, or when you pause your attacks briefly to close the distance with an enemy. This is basically the same effect as trying to play a game using a malfunctioning controller. I do NOT appreciate the game taking control away from me - this is one of the main reasons why I never once used dedicated melee mode. And before someone mentions melee only sorties, the first thing I did in those was to pull out the synthesis scanner to force me back into quick melee mode. When the game's throwing my character around at random, taking control away from me, it breaks the flow of combat.
2. You can't use alt-fire on your gun when in melee mode. This is a problem for Corinth users in particular, but I imagine that Penta fans would also suffer from this. This breaks the flow of combat, making things less fluid than before.
3. Previously, if you emptied your magazine and then hit someone with your sword, the gun would reload automatically when you were done swinging. This doesn't happen any more because the gun's no longer equipped. This is especially punishing for low or single round magazine weapons (eg. Exergis). This, once again, breaks the flow of combat and makes the game more clunky.
4. Previously, you could zoom in with something (weapon or scanner) to better center your aim with the Redeemer's charge shot. This no longer works. Zooming in and holding down the melee button for a shot results in you swinging the weapon precisely once... and nothing else. Yet again, this breaks the flow of combat.

All this update has done for me is to make the game extremely clunky. Quick melee was loved because of its fluidity - because it doesn't get in the players' way. The polearm quick melee was the absolute pinnacle of fluidity - two repeating hits with great reach, coverage and which never interfered with your movement. You could swing while running at full tilt in every direction. I don't remember whether any other weapon classes allowed you to actively sprint while swinging, but I can't recall of them actively fighting your control input (it's possible that they did, but if that's the case then I would have confined them to the dustbin immediately because of that). You could always change direction and continue moving through any attack.

 

Those of you who defend the forced use of stances - do you seriously enjoy the game taking control away from you whenever you use your own sword? Do you actively like it when your character spazzes out, flies in some direction and ignores your directional inputs simply because you were moving while striking, or paused your attacks? Stunlocking is for enemies, not your own equipment.

 

That's a huge problem which DE seems to have with their game. They are obsessed with getting in the way of the player, actively interfering with what they do. Some other examples: sortie bosses blocking out half the map screen, refusing to just shut the hell up. No, really. Shut the hell up, Vor. I don't give a crap about your Janus key and I never gave you permission to obscure my screen. The nightwave radio host spamming our screen (and ears, if you haven't yet set the transmission volume to zero) with useless crap. The changed abilities page in the arsenal which not only shows less information than before (changes to ability stats when levelling up), but now makes us do completely un-necessary actions to show information which would (and did) easily fit on the screen.

Great breakdown of the problems with the new system!  It has broken more things than it has fixed for sure and being locked into stance animations has only slowed down game play.  DE seems to have forgotten the old rule of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"  I hate the missing animations of weapon changes.  I just magically have whatever weapon in hand depending on if I hit melee or the mouse button?  I can now just passively block incoming fire by standing there?  I no longer have a quick melee attack?  None of these changes improved the game and actually made it more clunky, as people are saying, and I really hope DE is listening.

After almost 1700hrs gameplay, 450+ consecutive daily logins, and almost everything completed in the game at MR22,  quite simply, there is no real new content to play in this game anymore.  Having a new waframe every couple of months is not enjoyable for me or for most I would guess.  Most of my clan no longer plays this game because, like me, they know every tileset, every level, every mission type and there is nothing new to really see and do.  And even when they have put new content into the game (i.e. profit-taker), it small scaled and poorly implemented (yeah, let's make a boss that has a giant billboard above its head telling everyone what damage type can kill it!)  DE needs to do something way more creative and engaging.  Why not have a rift appear on the navigation chart where an alternate universe or dimension has broken through.  Wouldn't it be fun to really mess with players by creating a "zone"  where normal physics didn't apply or everything is upside down!  There is so much more that could be done with this game because it is (was?) amazing.  

Instead of adding more new stuff easily (like more archwing missions), they re-work the combat system?  If anything needed re-work, it's the focus system.  I said a while ago in a post that energizing dash should be the base tenet of every school of focus, or at least a basic function of every operator.  Because of that, almost everyone uses only Zenurik.  What's the point in having a waframe with abilities if you have no energy to use them?  And now channeling is going to suck that energy away even faster?  How is that helpful?

I'm a founding Warlord of a clan that, like many others, is dying.  I've enjoyed the motion and melee dynamics of this game for a long time and consider melee 2.0 to be at the pinnacle of gameplay in the gaming market.  That's why I continued to play this game for so long, even without new maps, bosses or even new frames.  But now, I choose not to have to relearn how to fight in this game.  And since there is nothing new to do, I too am leaving the game.

[M3tallius]

Not gonna lie, only skimmed this topic, but for real; trying to re-map everything to make it feel and control like your prior game of choice seems to be the culprit here on the whole. Seems like folks experiencing problems with it had some custom press z to left click and y to X on the any key 3 times from what I'm seeing. From what I'm personally experiencing right now, if you bothered to learn the game controls as the developer intended, instead of trying to make it feel like Call of Doody, this is a great push forward. Zero problems.

[DoomFruit]

25 minutes ago, M3tallius said:

Not gonna lie, only skimmed this topic, but for real; trying to re-map everything to make it feel and control like your prior game of choice seems to be the culprit here on the whole. Seems like folks experiencing problems with it had some custom press z to left click and y to X on the any key 3 times from what I'm seeing. From what I'm personally experiencing right now, if you bothered to learn the game controls as the developer intended, instead of trying to make it feel like Call of Doody, this is a great push forward. Zero problems.

Actually, the game's default controls for melee are utterly terrible. E? Seriously? The button right next to the movement keys? The keys that you're almost guaranteed to be pressing at the same time you're using melee strikes, because moving around is kinda important in close combat?

[M3tallius]

So pressing R for reload is a problem for you DoomFruit? Pressing F to activate things is? 1? 2? 3? 4? 5? Shift? Control? Q? They're all just so close to those movement keys... My point is that if you rigged up a foot pedal under you desk to press space bar because it feels more realistic to you than tapping the space bar, why is that their problem? Pressing E for melee is not, nor has it ever been a problem, in any game. Ever. Nor pressing F to pay respects.

[Ventricle8]

 

[DoomFruit]

2 hours ago, M3tallius said:

So pressing R for reload is a problem for you DoomFruit? Pressing F to activate things is? 1? 2? 3? 4? 5? Shift? Control? Q? They're all just so close to those movement keys... My point is that if you rigged up a foot pedal under you desk to press space bar because it feels more realistic to you than tapping the space bar, why is that their problem? Pressing E for melee is not, nor has it ever been a problem, in any game. Ever. Nor pressing F to pay respects.

The use key is E for me, the same as it has been for every single game since Half-Life. This is the first game I've ever seen with melee on E by default. Reloading is not an issue, as you either won't typically need to do that while at maximum manoeuvre or it'll happen automatically once your magazine runs dry. 1-5: I use them only rarely, activity select is mouse wheel for me with activation on the mouse wheel button. Shift and Control can be pressed with the little finger, completely independent of the movement keys. Q is the item menu and only ever gets used for infrequently accessed items, all others are bound either to the numpad (for all 12 hot items) or V, B and N for the frequently used items.

[Meatsikle]

I'm finding that the combo out of the gate to be a bit much now. Too many times I hit the melee and I'm off in another direction with the combo going and I can't stop it and I end up somewhere I don't want to be. I see in recent posts that I'm not alone in this. I miss running, rolling, doing a bullet jump strait up and kicking my feet out gaining air momentum all the while killing anything with any weapon I choose all on the fly with nothing taking control out of my hands. That seems to be gone for me with this new installment of melee two point whatever it is. When I heard that they were going to redo the melee system all I thought was: “why?!? They got that part of the game right and the movement system.” 

Don't even get me started on the auto blocking....GRRR!

(Little off topic)
I'm not a big fan of the open world stuff, I love the base game. I love doing a survival mission and staying until you are forced to scramble for the exit before the mission fails. I could do that all day every day. Love that shat! I really wish DE would do something new for content and leave the controls alone.....YOU GOT IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!! No fixy needed!!

Here is an idea how about open a worm hole to Alpha Centauri where all the factions Grineer, Corpus. Etc. went thousands of years ago and have evolved into a whole new versions. Distorted and more corrupted then before with new Grineer enemies who look different and fight different on new tile sets with with the same vibe as before but a whole new twist on things. Have my railjack take me there with my crew of Tenno all the while fighting the bad guys and kicking them off our ship when they try and board. I could go on and on for new quests and shat like that. This is what I want to see in the game. That will make me throw more money at DE; not taking away my controls and totally screwing up my customization that I've worked on to make the game SOOO enjoyable for me.

I want to have an open mind about the new melee system but so far it's just confirmed my gut feeling that this wasn't going to be a good change for me.

I've spent a lot of time reading this and other posts about this change instead of playing the game. Which is not how I want to spend my time; this change has really hit a nerve with me. I'm reading a lot of posts from smart people saying lot of truths about this subject. What bothers me is people giving other people a hard time because they're either for or against this melee change or the melee weapon they use and how they set it up. That kind of crap is not helpful. It's like the guy in your mission that pays more attention to what you are doing instead of playing and enjoy it for them selves. You know the player I'm talking about, the micro manager self proclaimed General of the mission. They are the guy that gives you a hard time in chat/voice because your not doing what they want. I actually feel really sorry for those people. You kill the spirit of the game. Calling people out in these forums for not agreeing with them and picking apart quotes is the same behavior. Not helpful. Objective feed back is what DE needs to be reading not this trash talking BS.

At the end of the day I truly believe that DE is a group of amazing people who have given us one of the best games of all time. Cough...EA....cough....Activision...cough...Blizzard, could learn a great deal from the geniuses at DE. All we can do is hope DE is paying attention and I believe at the end of the day they will give us what we ALL WANT! It's in there best interest and its payed off in spades for them in the past. Lets all see how it plays out.

I became a founder 6 years ago because I saw the potential in this game and they have totally blown my mind with what they have done. It's F'n FREE for Christ's sake!!! I got what I paid for and then some!

They will do the right thing at the end of the day. So lets give them as much feed back as we can instead of insulting each other like a bunch of 6 year old's.

Ok end of rant. I'll get off my soap box.

I'm not much but I'm all I think about.😉

Edited March 12, 2019 by Meatsikle

[SilviaS12]

On 2019-03-11 at 1:06 AM, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

We can't even wall latch with melee anymore unless we unequip all other weapons.

And that my friend simply does not make any sense. So it's either you go melee play style alone or shooting play style but still have melee attacks. It's just not balanced like it used to be.

[OniDax]

7 minutes ago, SilviaS12 said:

And that my friend simply does not make any sense. So it's either you go melee play style alone or shooting play style but still have melee attacks. It's just not balanced like it used to be.

Yeah. It's a problem, imo, and that's why I say melee is worse off than it was before, because there are simply things you can no longer do with melee weapons that you used to be able to do. Whereas, with guns, there are now more things you can do with guns (like having access to full melee combos). It's a melee rework that really provides more for gun play styles than melee play styles. The only real benefit that melee gains is directional slam attacks, but it loses melee block, melee wall latch, and melee aim glide. What we also lose is the choice to have dedicated gun and melee modes, instead getting one hybrid mode. This rework attempts to bridge two separate play styles (guns with quick melee and dedicated melee) into one. I don't care what people say. That objectively reduces play styles, not increases them, making it, imo, an objective loss. A true Melee 3.0 improvement would allow for three play styles: guns and quick melee, dedicated melee, and the hybrid Melee 2.99..97 mode we have now.

[Kuldor]

On 2019-03-11 at 1:14 AM, dragnhuntr666 said:

No more light melee attacks

This is a problem, not a good part.

[TalonBlue]

I haven't tested all of my melee weapons, but so far I feel like I'm doing less damage overall as most of my builds are Blood Rush builds.

Final Harbringer feels really bad, I'm missing very often and I'm jumping past the enemies I'm trying to kill.I switched Eleventh Storm. Not having control of blocking with my shield feels awful.

Small sample size, need time to test everything.

[(XBOX)Papa Requiem]

On 2019-03-10 at 5:14 PM, dragnhuntr666 said:

C'mon, people. The melee update is actually good. No more light melee attacks, now we have full melee as if our melee is right there ready to go. Blocking is now automatic, so that is less we have to mess with. We no longer have to manually switch between ranged and melee. Everything about the melee 2.999999999 is streamlined to be faster and almost all of it is better. As far as channeling, how many people actually channel anymore.

 

Now if you can provide actual constructive criticism on how they can improve melee 2.999999, then please be very drescriptive. Otherwise, everything is still there, you should read the patch notes and go to the codex, if you haven't done so already.

Auto blocking is dumb and ruins the easiest combos in the game 

[Ascarith]

7 hours ago, M3tallius said:

Not gonna lie, only skimmed this topic, but for real; trying to re-map everything to make it feel and control like your prior game of choice seems to be the culprit here on the whole. Seems like folks experiencing problems with it had some custom press z to left click and y to X on the any key 3 times from what I'm seeing. From what I'm personally experiencing right now, if you bothered to learn the game controls as the developer intended, instead of trying to make it feel like Call of Doody, this is a great push forward. Zero problems.

Enabling custom key binds and then failing to adequately think through the ramifications of fundamental game mechanic changes on said custom key binds suggests incompetence (in the worst case) or oversight (probably more realistic case). I'm inclined to think DE spent most of their time/energy on making sure the system did what they wanted first, and simply ran out of time or forgot to consider custom key binds. In DE's defense, accounting for all possible impacts of a change is nearly impossible, even if you have a robust QA team (<insert your favorite joke about DE's testing here>). There's a reason companies collect feedback about changes and changes they didn't personally realize is one of them. 

For me in particular, I rebind my keys for all games (where it is possible) because the layout I use is more comfortable for me. My left hand does not lie naturally on WASD and holding it there for any prolonged period of time is liable to make my hand cramp. WASD is also inefficient if you're playing a game in which you want easy access to many keys (heaven forbid you play a game where you have more than 4-5 abilities). I couldn't care less about trying to make WF controls match some other game's controls. I do care about having WF controls match the controls I use for every game.

I can also see this being particularly beneficial for people who have injuries or other physical obstacles that make it easier to use custom setups. In some ways, people who rebind their keys are more flexible and adaptable than people who don't. We will constantly experiment with different key bindings to try and make things work for us.

I think you are being pretty unfair in how you are painting these folks. And for the record, the melee changes do not really affect my custom setup. 

 

Edited March 12, 2019 by Ascarith

[Rabbio]

It seems like there was a stealth fix to my biggest issue of unequipping melee when turning in a power core. Just ran an excavation mission and didn't have my pistol forced on me once.

I'm steadily getting more used to modeless melee now, and the forced swapping is down to a minimum.

[JeskaiAdept]

20 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

You should already have secondary fire bound to something, that is the same button used for channeling. And channeling is now toggled, so you just need to activate it when you enter a mission (not adviced on exalted melee frames) and it keeps channel on even if you switch back and forth between melee/ranged.

But i need to use channeling only when i'm low on hp or my dps is not enough (playing funny not broken weps).

[Yunjuwo]

On 2019-03-11 at 11:47 AM, Meatsikle said:

Let me preface this post with I use total customization on my controls on PC. Haven't used stock controls in PC game in almost 25 years, I couldn't even tell you what default keys are any more. Sorry for the long winded post but people keep saying be more specific. So here's my take on it.

I totally agree with uAir! IMHO the melee wasn't broken so why fix it!! I've been nothing but frustrated with this change and is the first change in 6 years that has made me want to stop playing. I have played around with the options and feel I have a full understanding of how the old and new system works. Blocking was great in the old system for me and seem to add another level of skill to using melee full time. My block and aim were the same key (space bar) and I could always aim glide (gun or melee mode) using the same key. So blocking was easing because I was using a key that gets used a LOT! Also blocking while flying through the air aim gliding was awesome. Loved that animation.

My only complaint with the old system was the time in which it took to change modes. To me it seemed slow. What I think what should have been changed is the speed in which you change from full gun to full melee mode. If the key to change just became the new melee and you instantly used your melee and stayed in melee and still be able to use a key for quick melee, that would have been awesome. Being able to do a combo right out of the gate is great and not have to deal with the clunking transition between the two modes. 

I've tried this with “Melee with weapon fire input” on and off and I just can't get a balance. Sometimes it seems to work for some situation on and some off. I love to run and gun with the quick melee to crack crates and when you are needing to reload your weapon I would quick melee if I was being over run and didn't have any ammo in the gun and survival means quick action. 

The new system does what seems to be a quick melee but now your stuck in that mode when you don't want to be. (Melee with weapon fire input on) I find myself hitting a crate or bad guy and then try to shoot my gun. To get back I have to either aim or use switch weapon to get back; clunky. I find myself wanting to use quick melee and I want to reload my gun but I can't because Mr. gun is now on my back instead of in my hands wear it would be. If hitting reload took me back to the gun I was using (either main or side arm) that would work; maybe have an option for that. (Melee with weapon fire input off) I find myself wanting to use the melee and I fire (left mouse button) and takes me right back to my gun...GRRR!

The new ground slam is great love that.

Now on my melee only load-out (usually my Excalibur prime) I find I have to unequip my guns to get that setup to work the way I want with the new system which sucks because having a range weapon is very useful. Tying to take out a security camera with melee is a pain when you can just shoot it out from the other side of the room or through a barred door because the camera is red.

Please either bring back the quick melee and blocking or have an option to switch between 2.0 and 3.0 melee.....please please pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaase!! DE we know your listening and I know you are walking that line between keeping the game fresh and updated and keeping us happy. Your doing a great job DE keep up the great work! Love you guys and you crazy Tenno too. 😎

Ps someone mentioned having your scanner out and quick meleeing. That is another thing that sucks. Used to run a mission trying to find the scan target and just quick melee anyone who got close while I was tracking the target. Can't do that now.

The other thing I realized is since I use space bar to aim and block I find myself instinctively trying to block only to have my gun come back up when I want to stay in melee mode....GRRR!

You can actually still block in the air. Air -> Hold Aim -> Melee. Air -> Hold Aim -> Roll + Melee. Lots of ways. Just "another level of skill" if you want to be able to utilize it.

As for the whole clunky controls issue, I've been watching the devstreams, DE gave us fair warning (lots of overtime actually), and I've changed my control scheme like 5 or 6x to prepare for the new mechanics that Melee 3.0 will bring/have brought. Obviously after playing the game for a couple years I tripped up every time I changed them, both before and after Melee 3.0's release, but I adjusted quick enough and I'm having a blast with the new system, particularly in high level endless. And this is coming from someone who used to use Left Mouse for both weapon fire and melee attack.

[Meatsikle]

I know you can block and aim glide not really my issues at this point.

[541K4T]

On 2019-03-11 at 7:56 AM, dragnhuntr666 said:

Almost all the dozens of threads I have seen about melee 3.0 has mostly been complaining about how people don't like it, yet they all have failed to provide sufficient feedback on why

They did as soon as Change was in the air, the feedback was/is to keep the m2.0, as true melee players like me had no problem with it. But DE decided not to pay attention and force this change out of the blue. You obviously never played full melee and probably indulged in occasional quick melee and may be spin-2-win macro.

[DoomFruit]

23 minutes ago, 541K4T said:

They did as soon as Change was in the air, the feedback was/is to keep the m2.0, as true melee players like me had no problem with it. But DE decided not to pay attention and force this change out of the blue. You obviously never played full melee and probably indulged in occasional quick melee and may be spin-2-win macro.

Actually, dedicated quick melee users (like myself) despise the new system as well. I liked quick melee because the attack animations never once got in the way of your movement, so I could swing away at full sprint while being able to position myself freely. I hated dedicated melee mode and went to great lengths to avoid using it... and now it's been forced upon me.

[DynHamid]

On 2019-03-11 at 1:14 AM, dragnhuntr666 said:

how many people actually channel anymore

but life strike....

[tripimus]

basically what I'm reading here is i liked "my setup" and damn de for trying making it easier for people to play, honestly this change has not changed my play style at all i hated having to switch back and forth by holding e it annoyed me. If i accidentally hit it when i thought it was hitting w or r it sucked because then i had to switch out then switch back. For those of you who optimized for the old style quit be lazy learn the new system and optimize for that , you do it for your other programs,games,going from one car to another gosh darnnit changes were made get over it over come and be the best you you can be

[Buttaface]

Didn't read the whole thread. Always amusing to see players who very obviously do not specialize in melee and wouldn't know an Exodia Triumph from an Exodia Brave White Knighting a very defective, unnecessary new system. Could have sped up weapon switching and left as is. Instead we got the Hello Kitty version of a melee system.

Autoblock? BAD IDEA, and with less than perfect hosts bugs weapon switching and especially AW gun switching in Profit Taker and elsewhere. Nerfing block radius down to 45 degrees? BAD IDEA, overnerfed and should be AT LEAST 70-90 degrees. Channel toggle? BAD IDEA, combines with autoblock to waste energy unnecessarily, turns off when out of energy requiring a PITA of micromanagement that didn't exist prior.

Basically dumbed down and clunky compared to previous... for players specializing in melee. OF COURSE players who rarely meleed will find little difference between the old good system and the new bad one. And if you all think there's going to be some "reveal redeem" of this bad change in subsequent melee patches, when the "rest" of Melee Bad.Bad drops and it's essentially a rebalance and riven disposition update, and that's it, well...

Edited March 20, 2019 by Buttaface

[SilviaS12]

19 hours ago, tripimus said:

basically what I'm reading here is i liked "my setup" and damn de for trying making it easier for people to play, honestly this change has not changed my play style at all i hated having to switch back and forth by holding e it annoyed me. If i accidentally hit it when i thought it was hitting w or r it sucked because then i had to switch out then switch back. For those of you who optimized for the old style quit be lazy learn the new system and optimize for that , you do it for your other programs,games,going from one car to another gosh darnnit changes were made get over it over come and be the best you you can be

I think you need to recheck who is the lazy one here. 

[(PSN)RedGhost135]

On 2019-03-10 at 5:14 PM, dragnhuntr666 said:

C'mon, people. The melee update is actually good. No more light melee attacks, now we have full melee as if our melee is right there ready to go. Blocking is now automatic, so that is less we have to mess with. We no longer have to manually switch between ranged and melee. Everything about the melee 2.999999999 is streamlined to be faster and almost all of it is better. As far as channeling, how many people actually channel anymore.

 

Now if you can provide actual constructive criticism on how they can improve melee 2.999999, then please be very drescriptive. Otherwise, everything is still there, you should read the patch notes and go to the codex, if you haven't done so already.

The light melee made several weapons with kind of bad stances actually fun to use, this ain't fun