Slow console updates

[FlusteredFerret]

45 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

They have less than 200 employees (Might have gone up, I haven't checked lately) In order to get a QA team that does as well as the entire PC playerbase does, they'd have to hire several hundred people.

Right now, DE just has to put out an event to get hundreds of thousands of players to play the Hek out of to find the larger, easier to find bugs and exploits and then ship it off to consoles once they're fixed. 

That saves them a lot of money, why should they change that when it works so well for them?

Well according to Google search they currently have 310 employees.

https://www.google.com/search?q=digital+extremes+video+games&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLUz9U3MEkuiy9RQjC1JLKTrfSTy9L10xNzU-NzE7NTi6xAzOJFrDIpmemZJYk5CqkVJUWpQCGFssyU1HwFsDQARz9A11EAAAA&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjb7LLypNriAhUHExQKHdX8DFwQzTooATAfegQIDhAC

 

However what many people here forget is that companies have admin / HR staff, finance staff, legal staff, not to mention sales / promotion staff too.

So one thing we can say for sure is that DE don't have 310 people working on Warframe.

Just making a wild guess here, but I'd be surprised if the number of people actively involved in game development was more than 200...probably less.

 

 

Edited June 8, 2019 by FlusteredFerret

[DatDarkOne]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

Still more than the 5 an indie developer has that releases more polished products BUT ok I'll stop now.

Come on Man.  You're stretching things with that one by a large margin.  Stop it, and come back to the real world. 

[Kuestenjung]

vor 46 Minuten schrieb MagPrime:

Oh, sweet, overreaction and comparing two different things.

Guess there's not point in trying to engage you in this topic anymore, since you're just going to lash out with self deprecation and exaggeration. 

I hope your day improves, Clem.

That´s what he/she does from the very beginning. And seeing that almost every second post is from Cubic Clem....well.

[(NSW)Sk0rp1on]

On 2019-04-29 at 6:55 AM, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

The Nintendo Switch would like to have a conversation with you about that x'D

Stable game? Haha x'D The switch version needs some serious TLC down the road.

I’m no expert, but switch might have some hardware limitations and idiosyncrasies that other consoles don’t 

[(PSN)drollive96]

On 2019-04-29 at 8:07 AM, (XB1)Deathwar101 said:

I have played this game for awhile and know i have realize that they could careless bout console its always a problem with tennogen yup we still stuck at 14 pc gets skins yes we still have no atlas deluxe they just update pc every time i look around but console we have to wait months to catch up de hasntrealize they should just stop updating pc and let console catch up but noooo they just keep with the pc updates there on tennogen 16 we still on 14 what is the deal i know people are goin to take de side and thats the problem long as yall keep let them slide with these trash console updates they will keep letting it go on like know there focus on pc to give them a new update while console sits and wait like a unwanted step child

 

Get used to it, thats just the way waframe works. dont like it? Too bad

[(PSN)UltroAdsunt]

Atlas deluxe is on console.

Damn it's the 1st thing you see when you log in.

[EmberStar]

13 hours ago, Shalath said:

Have you watched the NoClip documentary on Youtube? Several investors/publishers flat out said that Warframe would fail because it looks extremely good for a F2P game and they didn't think DE could pump out content of that quality quick enough to stop the players consuming everything and just leaving.

Consoles are a relatively easy win as they are fixed platforms with all consoles of their type being equal. PC on the other hand is an unholy Frankenstein of a platform with any number of combinations of hardware, OS/driver versions and additional software like overlays (which regularly cause issues) that DE simply can't test every combination of. Us PC players acting as a secondary QA are one of the things that allow DE to push content fast enough. Once the kinks are ironed out and they have a build they are happy with they send it to cert.

It really isn't a difficult business model to figure out. If DE did all of the testing themselves we would be weeks/months between updates while they tested every bit of content (of which there is a lot) and bugs would still slip through making the delay for the submission to cert likely longer.

I'll throw you a challenge if none of that makes any sense to you. Run every planetary node, every sortie combination, every invasion and every other piece of content there is (whole maps, no speedrunning) and note down how long that takes in terms of hours. Oh, you need to do the same for every language the game supports as well as typo's are bugs. Let's pull an imaginary number of 50 QA people out of the air and divide your hours by that. Add the number of hours to actually develop the content and tell me how frequently your fully QA'd updates will ship after your QA process is run. Not a small number is it? Are you prepared to wait that long for every new bit of content including hotfixes? That is how the "proper" QA you refer to works.

Yes, I work for a software house 😉

Don't forget that you also need to run each node with each warframe, every weapon, every cosmetic, every pet.  And preferably every possible *combination* of those things, because there have absolutely been bugs in the past where a specific flaw only shows up for ONE warframe and no others, or only a handful of them.  Mirage + Spamulor.  Trinity + Link + shooting HERSELF in the face with stupidly high power self damage weapons to instantly kill everything linked to her.  There have been other bugs that only affected one or two weapons or warframes, but in a completely negative way.  But since "Warframe X instantly dies when they try to fire this weapon" bugs don't make good youtube clickbait, those tend to only show up in bug reports.

Right now, they're still ironing bugs out of the new "Emissive and Energy Colors" system.  Octavia's Mithra skin applies the *energy* color to her pigtails.  So does Revenant's ghost fire.  Is this a bug?  Because it looks like a bug to me, when every other Warframe I've checked only applies the Energy color to their *powers* now.  And they're probably still working through the metrics (and bug reports, and gameplay footage) of the new Disruption mode and Ropalolyst fight to see if there are super serious edge case spikes.  "Okay, most teams got X amount of Disruption points in half an hour.  Except we have this cluster here where somehow people were getting points thirty times faster than that.  What the hell is going on here?  Do we have a bug report on this?  Can we reproduce it?"  (Totally fictional example, I have no idea if there was any issue with Disruption.)

And even with consoles being "supposedly" uniform hardware, there can be weird bugs.  There was a game, I forget which, that would completely crash one of the older XBox models.  But only one specific version of that kind of XBox, which originally shipped with a twenty GB hard drive.  People originally assumed it was because the 8GB game wasn't fitting onto the 20GB hard drive.  Until people started reporting that they had that version but with aftermarket upgraded hard drives, and it still crashed.  Uh oh.  So now a console that should have a completely uniform motherboard... obviously does not.

[EmberStar]

13 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Except that isnt true.

PC would be the platform that would get your current waiting times instead, because the two platforms are different and need different attention. Otherwise you'd end up with a "Chaosbane" release for PC where everything would be tweaked towards consoles, leaving the PC players with a peasant experience.

 

Or Monster Hunter World, where the PC port was delayed for like six months and still sucked like a black hole because the Japanese devs were all like "Mouse and keyboard?  What heresy is this?  We do not understand this 'mouse and keyboard' sorcery you speak of!"  It's better now, but playing it with a mouse and keyboard still feels a bit weird.  Or like Nier Automata, which NEVER got a PC patch but is at least mostly playable.  Or Arkham City, which not only never got a patch for the PC port, the publisher flatly said they had zero intention of TRYING to patch it because they'd already reassigned the dev team to make DLC.  And honestly didn't care about the PC version, because the PC sales were "disappointing" and they didn't think patching it was worth the return on investment.

[FlusteredFerret]

17 hours ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

I said I'll stop now.. don't fuel me. I'm angry because of reasons. Like the untouched outdated network code causing massive issues with all this host migration nonsense, causing me to lose loot, forcing me to cancel every mission I start because I need to make sure that I'm the host so I'm not affected. And it works, haven't had others joining me say anything negative.

Well I do have sympathy for you and other players on that score. It is one of the game's Achilles heels, but unfortunately its a legacy of how the game was created. Its one of those things thats pretty difficult to change, once its done.

To make it a server-based game would require a major hardware / infrastructure overhaul and the game's code would have to be amended to take out all the P2P networking stuff...which would then have to be QA'd.

It would be a very resource-intensive exercise, both financially and in terms of the number of personnel they'd need to do this. If you think game development is slow now, I'm pretty sure it would grind to a complete halt for several months, or longer.

Sure they could keep the game running on the P2P system, while they worked on the server version, but its likely we would not see any new content for quite a while. I mean the art & design teams could keep producing stuff, but it couldn't be tested & incorporated into the game.

 

[(XBOX)WarThenDeath]

Slow updates its just sad there should be no slow updates console has to wait to long for a update then de be on some new stuff for pc ,like tennogen 16 we still on 14 something wrong wit that picture

 

 

[Horaciozhao]

They can update pc anytime they want but each time they update console they need to ask for permission from either Microsoft, or Sony, or Nintendo and pay for it. Because PC doesn´t have a supreme overlord company.

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

Still people complaining about consoles being a tad behind??? 

Get used to it, Ive been playing for years. It dosent bother me, the only time I was worried was last year as I was attending Tennocon and they got it out just in time. 

Its a PC game first, feel lucky that consoles got the game at all. 

[(PSN)Cephalon_ghost80]

On 2019-06-08 at 10:33 PM, -AiLuoLi- said:

That's the price of being a console peasant.

 

Hows borderlands 3 going for you and epic exclusives

[-AiLuoLi-]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)dropnation40 said:

Hows borderlands 3 going for you and epic exclusives

I only play Warframe so...

 

Edited June 12, 2019 by -AiLuoLi-

[(PSN)Cephalon_ghost80]

1 minute ago, -AiLuoLi- said:

I only play Warframe so...

 

Question where did you find that pc gamer gif because it hilarious 

[-AiLuoLi-]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)dropnation40 said:

Question where did you find that pc gamer gif because it hilarious 

Reddit if I'm not wrong but it was a few years ago so I don't remember anything else.

I don't care about pc master race much, I just want opportunity to use that gif because it's hilarious.

Edited June 12, 2019 by -AiLuoLi-

[(PSN)Cephalon_ghost80]

5 minutes ago, -AiLuoLi- said:

Reddit if I'm not wrong but it was a few years ago so I don't remember anything else.

I don't care about pc master race much, I just want opportunity to use that gif because it's hilarious.

I dont blame you that S#&$ is hilarious when i saW

[Sealthrux]

On 2019-04-29 at 2:11 PM, (PS4)Hikuro-93 said:

How cute that you've been playing for a while. I've been here for years, and I know that updates have been coming much faster recently. Before you'd have to wait 1-2 months minimum for every update. Now we've had it reduced to an average of 2 weeks, and using the same "PC Beta test, port and cert" method, which means it's the same system, but much faster.

And those are just the facts. As far as my opinion is concerned I wouldn't mind 1 month at all. Specially because ever since Exploiter Orb Mother I've been seeing a lot of bugs, and bad ones at that. Which means that the faster updates come at a cost of lower performance. And I play consoles mainly because I like the trade-off of waiting more but not having to worry about my game running well and polished. Unless something like cross-play/cross-save becomes a thing someday I don't want faster updates. The only instance where I'd accept a more unstable build on consoles would be if I could switch between platforms, which doesn't seem to be happening anytime soon. And right now we still have to wait, but we also have more bugs. So yeah, all that whining from us players got us was the bad sides of both worlds, and I hope it doesn't get worse.

Now, as far as Tennogen and "Console negligence" are concerned, 2 things:

• A new player, Nintendo Switch, has entered the arena. This means renegotiating most deals that existed before regarding Tennogen. Give them a chance to catch up ad don't be entitled, because both PS4 and XB1 had to go trough the same and you wouldn't have liked if PC told DE to disregard consoles because most players and money are on PC.
• Before speaking of console negligence, see that we have exclusive packs, we can buy Tennogen with plat (even if that advantage is balanced out by the lower plat rates) and they have made an incredible effort to appease to the people whining about the waiting times between updates, which I mostly disagree with for the reasons stated above.

That's about it. It's what we have, and it's quite fair, much better than it once was overall. Playing the poor sobbing victim card whenever it suits one is truly shameless and disgusting, from this smaller complaint, to bigger issues such as racism, sexism or other problems.

Funny how you call us beta testers, but the update was bug free by the 2nd day and we had everything and did everything before you were even able to download it

[Sealthrux]

52 minutes ago, (PS4)dropnation40 said:

Hows borderlands 3 going for you and epic exclusives

You do realize, its still the same right ? Many ppl, me included, dislike epic BUT I rly want BL3 so I will most likely just buy it there. Not a huge problem, I just gotta open a launcher I dont like. No biggie. Hows inferiority going for you tho ?

[Sealthrux]

On 2019-06-08 at 4:10 PM, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

I just love when PC players say that (not aimed at you!), first of all important hotfixes can actually be fixed, we've had it in the past with like 4 hotfixes a day.. so they can do it.

And second, always this talk about how unplayable and disgusting the game is before all the fixes, yet veterans breeze through and get everything in 24 hours so hm? What's unplayable there..

Ya. I killed ropalolyst as soon as it dropped and then farmed some hexanon for my clan. By day 2 I had everything there was to have.

[Sealthrux]

Idk, ask sony and microsoft to fix their dumb system.

[Sealthrux]

On 2019-06-08 at 3:33 PM, -AiLuoLi- said:

That's the price of being a console peasant.

 

hell ya gamer

[FlusteredFerret]

1 hour ago, -AiLuoLi- said:

I only play Warframe so...

 

Love that GIF...absolutely epic! 

All hail the PC Master Race! 

 

Edited June 12, 2019 by FlusteredFerret

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

On 2019-06-12 at 2:50 PM, SealthruxTV said:

Funny how you call us beta testers, but the update was bug free by the 2nd day and we had everything and did everything before you were even able to download it

So I compliment and thank pc for what they do, and what they are, and you decide to act like a drama queen about it? You are beta testers (and oh boy do pc players make sure we know it, reminding us daily of it) whether you like it or not, if not the updates would be universal and cost DE much more. You are the one seeing it as a bad thing and being toxic about it. 

 Btw by your posts I can see you are one of "those"... The ones who need to have a platform war in their lives to give them some meaning. Warframe is not the place for that. It's pretty rare to see platform war pettiness around here, almost non existant, so I suggest looking for that drama elsewhere. 

On other topic, what do you think the delay of consoles is for, genius? Of course you have to try and *beta test* everything out so DE can port it to us with no issues.

In any case, cheers. I won't fuel your sad attempt at elitism.

Edited June 14, 2019 by (PS4)Hikuro-93

[Sealthrux]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)Hikuro-93 said:

So I compliment and thank pc for what they do, and what they are, and you decide to act like a drama queen about it? You are beta testers whether you like it or not, if not the updates would be universal and cost DE much more. You are the one seeing it as a bad thing and being toxic about it. Fragile pride, is it?

 Btw by your posts I can see you are one of "those"... The ones who need to have a platform war in their lives to give them some meaning. Warframe is not the place for that. It's pretty rare to see platform war pettiness around here, almost non existant, so I suggest looking for that drama elsewhere. 

Quite a huge stretch there. But no, we arent beta testers. Yes the game comes with a few bugs, but they are fixed. Thats not how betas work tho. It comes from the simple fact that you do not know what a beta tester is. And no, the updates arent universal because sony and microsoft like taking their time slowly reviewing everything and having problems with everything.
Ya the Jovian update had bugs, for like 2 days. Then it was just normal warframe. You had to wait like what, 3 weeks ? Ya, DE wasnt reviewing bugs by then bud, microsoft and sony were just doing their thing. 
Also, ever wonder why updates are TAILORED more towards the PC playerbase ? Because we matter more. PC is the main platform for warframe.