Shield gating is essential - for certain frames to be useful at high levels

[(PSN)BattleCry1791]

19 hours ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

I think it's your build man.

I want to post my builds but I'm afraid that they'll get mainstreamed and nerfed.

With that in mind, I wouldn't mind helping you initiate a push to have some of the inferior frames get better damage reduction properties but we need to realize that the problem isn't the frame...it's DEs refusal to put balance first.

Enemies shouldn't have infinite scaling damage, they should have a cap.

The difficulity in in facing enemies shouldn't be a result of their armor value but a measure of their mechanics and their sheer number.

Finally, Warframe powers need to be toned down. There's no teamwork stemmed from having self sufficient frames that can instantly melt an entire map at the push of a button. Actually, there isn't much of a game with that in mind.

None of that solves for Mag being one shot in rotation B Arbitration from behond

[LarryOtter]

Shield gating (2-4 sec) and umbral redirection would help shield frames a lot

[Tinklzs]

On 2019-05-13 at 1:49 AM, MonsterOfMyOwn said:

I agree with that and overshield don't really help a lot. 

Shield gating for all ? I don't think it's the solution, but shield buff, yes please.

Then just make it so overshield (for all frames) gives large damage reduction say 70-80%, that doesn't stack with adaptation. When the overshield's "break" you get shield gating effect of 1-2 second invulnerability. When normal shields deplete, shield-gating kicks in again, but it jump-starts your shield recharge (starts at 40-60% total shield capacity) so when invulnerability from shieldgating #2 happens, you're near full shield again (80ish %). 

I think that's a good medium between the two.  Gives more of a use for overshields, while they're nice, since they don't offer damage reduction right now, it's just 1-2 more bullets you can tank (which is nothing).

 

[(PSN)les2zamours]

This thread shows how idiot most of the people playing this game are. If I put you in front of a lv200 corpus technicielan with a nyx nothing will save you, NOTHING, the technician will deplete your energy in 2 sec if you ever try to put on assimilate, your quick thinking will not even bother to work, your adaptation will never reach 90%, your armor will be useless.

Shield gating is NECESSARY for ENDURANCE PLAYERS, not the people that play against lv70s because at this level you have many ways to survive.

Due to enemy damage scaling most solutions/frames will be useless lv300/400, at this point you put an ancient and you pray to only take 1 bullet from a lancer, at this point only Wukong and a Tenno on the move can stand a chance.

 

I don't think blueberries should ever come in these conversations to expose their ideas, because it just doesn't solve anything, you're writing pointless arguments.

 

Yes, I am very aggressive, but most will understand that after waiting 2 years for endgame content and still seeing blueberries that think sorties are hard coming here and try to explain why aDaPTioN WorKs U DoNt NeeD AnyThiNg Else LuL is VERY obnoxious. 

Now be quiet and let the adults talk.

 

Yes, we need Shield Gating, i would say keep Hyldrin's passive but reduce the duration to 1-2 seconds and add a cooldown of 10-15 seconds max.

Thanks for bringing this topic to the table.

[AzureTerra]

The trouble with "needing" it is that till now with one frame that actually has it we have managed to do without it just fine. 

[(PSN)Onder6099]

Put Mag, Nyx, Ember and, for example, Banshee and you don’t need Shield gating.

Problem: Players playing Solo or headlessly jumping into PuGs. Recruiting doesn’t exist, except Tridolon hunts and Radshares, like it’s some kind of shame to recruit for another specific missions.

Solution: Recruit, set your Frame, Arsenal, Operator and Companions and Communicate, for best result.

[(PSN)Glitchoid]

Gotta say,I do just fine against 130's with Nyx. Yeah,I get dumped on quite often,but she has 85 armor as her prime and her kit is meant to redirect enemy targeting. I run adaptation,p.flow,rolling guard,quick thinking, Constitution & the corrupted range mod. For her aura,power donation because I run her as a support cc,not a walking energy dump 4th.

Movement is 50% of survivability in this game to me,always has been. Sure my tankier frames let me be as lazy as I want,but that where I enjoy the change. I can survive on mag by allowing my team to eat everything by stripping that armor. She can also be used for extreme bubble spam.

Ember is just in a bad spot bc we lack the mods to re-adapt her to late level gameplay. When I see a arbi with infested I laugh,then I realize it was a bad idea after 30 min bc line-of-sight does not apply to enemy auras. RiP energy. Out of that tho,she is manageable as long as her kit is being used in synergy. 

I don't want to see Loki on this list & he's the one frame I can say needs a  buff to his decoy. His kit? Just fine.

Limbo,can abuse the void.

Khora,has her cat.

Ivara,is the unseen huntress.

Your build + play style determines how well your survive. Not every frame can be used like a inaros and just ADS the entire time while ignoring enemy count/DPS against yourself.

 

I've reverted back to my solo play style as of late,unless it's a clan/alliance member asking for help or wanting to run something,I run whatever frame I want for whatever reason I feel like. I survive just fine that way too.

[TaylorsContraction]

+1 I feel the same way. The moment I experienced Hildryn's passive I thought, my god, every frame should have this.

 

This is the shield gating we've been waiting for given to one frame not like this 😞

Edited May 18, 2019 by TaylorsContraction

[Kontrollo]

13 hours ago, (PS4)les2zamours said:

This thread shows how idiot most of the people playing this game are. If I put you in front of a lv200 corpus technicielan with a nyx nothing will save you, NOTHING, the technician will deplete your energy in 2 sec if you ever try to put on assimilate, your quick thinking will not even bother to work, your adaptation will never reach 90%, your armor will be useless. 

Shield gating is NECESSARY for ENDURANCE PLAYERS, not the people that play against lv70s because at this level you have many ways to survive.

...

Disagree that it's necessary. I do endurance on Nyx just fine. The trick is to not get aggro, then you won't get hit, either. What will save you in that specific situation you brought up are your 1, 3 and 4 buttons.

The most problematic for me at the moment are invisible and inaudible grenades in a sea colourful spam. They already fixed some of that in 24.8.3:

On 2019-05-10 at 7:58 PM, [DE]Megan said:

Fixed anti-stationary-target grenades thrown by Corpus Crewmen having their explosion timer being set to 0.5s upon landing on the ground. Now they are on par with Grineer grenades again (3~4s lifetime).

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

The issue is that squishy frames are way harder to use in higher difficulty contents than tougher frames.

When you compare mods options between HP / armor and shield, the options for HP / armor are better : Umbral mods, max health aura, "rage" that resplenish energy.

On the shield side you still need HP because of slash / toxin proc, the shield increase is "twice" lower than an HP increase when you take into account armor, and the only specific mods are those that grant % of shield while casting, and are not good enough because most squishy frame with probably have 30% efficiency.
Even overshields are very limited (many effects are not effective on overshields), have the same value for all frames (except one), and don't have consistent way to keep them up unless you play Mag (but then again it requires NPCs at range and an energy expense).

I think that a few tweak could be made :
- mods that resplenish shields should have increased values (when Augur set is maxed, I want a 4th that cost 100 energy to resplenish up to 500 shield value)
- an aura mod that increase overshield value (+400)
- a mod that add damage reduction to shields (30% to shield and 50% to overshields ?)
- increase the shield base value to all frames that have less than 200 armor (the lower the armor, the higher the shield), something like +175 for armor lower than 65, +150 for armor around 65 and 85... +50 for amor around 125, even with this boost Hildryn shield value should stay at top.

 

[BL4CKN0ISE]

On 2019-05-12 at 3:10 PM, Chipputer said:

I did, actually, because you offered it as a solution to a frame like Nyx. If you understood how it worked you'd realize that it's not a solution for her, or frames like her, at all.

You can actually use it with every frame if you want. Most people know how the mod works. The problem is most people probably don't know how to benefit from it with every frame. If you need to take damage to build up a resistance to that damage, how do you make that happen on a squishy frame? If you answer that, you can use it on every single frame. There are many ways in Warframe to make your frame tanky enough to get even tankier with Adaptation. There's even a mod that released right alongside Adaptation that helps with this. Rolling Guard, Arcanes, Channeled blocks, Focus schools, etc. can all help you while you build up damage resistances. 

 

[TaylorsContraction]

29 minutes ago, BL4CKN0ISE said:

You can actually use it with every frame if you want. Most people know how the mod works. The problem is most people probably don't know how to benefit from it with every frame. If you need to take damage to build up a resistance to that damage, how do you make that happen on a squishy frame? If you answer that, you can use it on every single frame. There are many ways in Warframe to make your frame tanky enough to get even tankier with Adaptation. There's even a mod that released right alongside Adaptation that helps with this. Rolling Guard, Arcanes, Channeled blocks, Focus schools, etc. can all help you while you build up damage resistances. 

 

when rolling guard is active you done take damage thus shouldn't be getting adaptation stacks.

 

all the git gud comments, but the fact is all squishy frames will drop in one shot at higher level content while more defensive frames will not.  it only takes one wrong move.  i use qt with rolling guard and often am staggered to death that I can't even roll.  in any case, I play squish frames a lot in higher level content because i like the challenge. there is little recourse for not insta dying, which means players were given no time to adjust to a threat they may not have been aware of.  enemy spawns everywhere.  shield gating that hildryn has is a great way to let players know just how much danger they are in without simply dying.

[BL4CKN0ISE]

5 minutes ago, TaylorsContraction said:

when rolling guard is active you done take damage thus shouldn't be getting adaptation stacks.

 

all the git gud comments, but the fact is all squishy frames will drop in one shot at higher level content while more defensive frames will not.  it only takes one wrong move.  i use qt with rolling guard and often am staggered to death that I can't even roll.  in any case, I play squish frames a lot in higher level content because i like the challenge. there is little recourse for not insta dying, which means players were given no time to adjust to a threat they may not have been aware of.  enemy spawns everywhere.  shield gating that hildryn has is a great way to let players know just how much danger they are in without simply dying.

You can take damage and not lose health or shields. Adaption is all about damage. I don't think it works with Harrow's 4th, but it definitely works with Rolling Guard. 

[Tinklzs]

1 hour ago, BL4CKN0ISE said:

You can take damage and not lose health or shields. Adaption is all about damage. I don't think it works with Harrow's 4th, but it definitely works with Rolling Guard. 

It doesn't work with his fourth. 

Still think that two band-aid mods kind of are self-explanatory for why we need shield-gating to begin with.

The fact that adaptation/rolling guard exist is for squish frames, it just makes tanky frames that much more broken. 

[Kontrollo]

1 hour ago, Tinklzs said:

It doesn't work with his fourth. 

Still think that two band-aid mods kind of are self-explanatory for why we need shield-gating to begin with.

The fact that adaptation/rolling guard exist is for squish frames, it just makes tanky frames that much more broken. 

Shield gating would be an even bigger band-aid.

Yes, when comparing different frames it's clear defence mechanics are broken in this game, as many other things are. But shield gating is not the fix. They need to come up with something better than that.

And in the meantime: group up with a Trinity and bring a Ancient Healer Specter. There, fixed for the whole mission.

[xmegarockx]

add 250 armor to every squishi frame, problem solve!

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

I used to think it, but then I didn't. Ember, for example can be seen as squishy... So I just use her for infested (who don't have guns). With a well developed set up, she seems fine for a few hours of infested survival. I've found that banshee with an ignis works great on infested as long as you don't let them touch you. Having good ways to aquires health is always welcome. I recommend those operator arcanes that give you health from doing things like transference. Using equilibrium with the broken scepter is also extremely useful (be careful when sucking out those orbs).

[Tinklzs]

5 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

Shield gating would be an even bigger band-aid.

Yes, when comparing different frames it's clear defence mechanics are broken in this game, as many other things are. But shield gating is not the fix. They need to come up with something better than that.

And in the meantime: group up with a Trinity and bring a Ancient Healer Specter. There, fixed for the whole mission.

The "true" fix is a completel rebalance, next best thing is shield-gating.  Adaptation works best with already tanky frames, it works.. okayish with squish frames. Rolling guard I'd argue is more situational / has synergy with some frames over others (like limbo for example), but in general can be useful - but won't see much action unless you're playstyle involves it.

[Kontrollo]

6 hours ago, Tinklzs said:

The "true" fix is a completel rebalance, next best thing is shield-gating.  Adaptation works best with already tanky frames, it works.. okayish with squish frames. Rolling guard I'd argue is more situational / has synergy with some frames over others (like limbo for example), but in general can be useful - but won't see much action unless you're playstyle involves it.

Not necessarily. They could fix frames that need it like they fixed Nova.

Shield gating is just another band-aid.

My playstyle on a CC frame involves not getting hit in the first place, or at least not as much that I drop dead instantly. The occasional bullet isn't one-shotting anyone until hours into an endurance run. And if you have trouble earlier in the game, I've outlined what you can do about that above.

[80think08]

Instead of a complete invulnerability, why not nullify overkill damage applied on shields instead of applying them on health? That way you have somewhat an invulnerability but far less powerful and more controlable for DE. That and a simple internal timer to avoid shield recharge exploits.

Edited May 19, 2019 by 80think08