Decrease ESO leeching by preventing joining with weapons under Rank 30.

[EinheriarJudith]

1 hour ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

First off, focus comes from affinity.  Secondly, it's your opinion that ESO is for focus farming.

its is not opinion its fact. every portal after the first gives you convergence at the beginning. Synthetic eidolon shards are also in its drop table. the affinity component is for focus because of how focus is lvled up through killing, so all they need to do is just make focus xp to replace affinity.

if you want to lvl up go somewhere else. as ive said affinity is quite easy to get and has no place in end game modes that are geared towards equipment that no longer need affinity.

Edit: pretty sure DE talked about this in a dev video.

Edited May 16, 2019 by EinheriarJudith

[Buttaface]

10 hours ago, Luxpluff said:

In another thread, you complain about:

I find it oddly amusing how you can be so salty about both "lowbies" and "curbstompers" simultaneously.

I find your laughably strained false equivalence/comparison oddly amusing. What on Earth is the relation between the leeching problem in higher level content, the topic of this thread, and epeener tryhards using mapclear cheeze in the lowest tiles to deny content to starting players, the topic of the other thread? Nada, nothing.

I find the thread-stalking strange, but eh, gaming forum so that kind of strangeness and false comparisons come with the turf I guess.

Edited May 16, 2019 by Buttaface

[Buttaface]

9 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You're being ridiculous. I often find myself in a Rhino, and trying to keep up with a good Equinox on Hydron, and occasionally I almost make it. I will often be the one who carries, even though I'm in the "support" frame. I can count on one hand the number of times I faced the Wolf and was outdamaged, and just so we're crystal clear I farmed the hammer and the mask long before the alert, always in a pug, often on Hydron.

I can manage to do that with just one good weapon at a time while ranking up MR fodder. If you are unable to do that, then I'd question your ability to pull your weight. And if after all of these years you're unable to grasp that MR is a meaningless metric for experience, I am left to wonder what you've been doing in this game all this time.

Yes leeches can be an issue. But the suggestion that having any sub-30 gear is the hallmark of a leech, is nonsense. 

Expanding a rationalization of leeching already dealt with prior into a whole post doesn't make it any less of a weak rationalization.

Edited May 16, 2019 by Buttaface

[Buttaface]

6 hours ago, xV3NOMx said:

Your comment is very conflicting.

You argue that low-level gear should be restricted on certain planet nodes and missions, but each planet does have a "Dark Sector" that enables increase of experience points and higher enemy level gains too. Earth is a planet available for low Mastery Rank players, which restricting them from doing Eidolon runs makes no sense. 

[If Players are capable to sustain and support their squad members with low-level weapons equipped, then who cares if they are also taking advantage of the affinity bonus gained.] 

 

If "leeching" is a problem for you, then host and form your own squads or play the game on "Invite Only" or "Solo" modes.

Not "conflicting." No idea what you are trying to say with the dark sector comment, as I have already argued that the whole starchart except for specialized higher level tiles should be open to leeching, and compounds the "form your own squad if you don't like it" rationalization dealt with in a prior post.

[Buttaface]

6 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

i said it before. remove affinity from ESO. ESO is for focus farming. replace affinity with focus strickly drop/items (even if it has to be created). this will removing people going into ESO to lvl.

there are so many ways to gain affinity that no end game mode should reward it at all. arbitration? replace affinity with endo since this mode is for farming endo.

This would be another way to "skin the leeching cat." Removing affinity from a very -few- higher level content modes would address leeching nicely.

For every forum rationalizer who claims they personally are contributing when leveling weapons in high level modes/nodes, have already formaed the gear several times, and all the other rationalizations, there are ten who are most certainly NOT contributing anything or very little to the team.

It's plain that DE wants to limit leeching because they require max rank frames to do certain content. It's also plain that they haven't gone far enough because the problem is widespread.

"If you don't like leeching, form your own squad" doesn't prevent leeching in the least and moreover is a bassackwards way of looking at it. The game should limit leeching in certain few high level content modes, the players shouldn't be tasked with doing it.

As a max MR, several year player with ~600 forma in my gear, I have used regular starchart leveling tiles to level gear efficiently. I have never used ESO, Arbitrations, top bounties, sorties, etc. to level gear because it is cheezy on a common sense level to do so whether the game allows it or not. I don't mind carrying less experienced players, quite the contrary, do it all the time, what I mind is the 30-40% of the playerbase who is being trained to be permacarried by having leeching allowed in higher level content. This has led to a game situation full of high MR bads and noobs, not to mention a very high % of the playerbase who apparently thinks "playing" the game is being permacarried. Limiting leeching from higher level content wouldn't solve that problem of course, but I wager it would make it significantly better.

 

Edited May 16, 2019 by Buttaface

[Buttaface]

22 hours ago, Xavori said:

I hope this letter finds you in better spirits than when you posted your wrong...

In short, no.  Do not exclude anyone from any game mode just because they make your feels sad. 

(emphasis added)

What a joke, but nicely summarizes all the rationalizations for the leeching flaw in WF in a florid way easily dismissed as the rationalizations they in fact are.

Dearest Xavori,

Do you think you are fooling anyone that the unnecessarily snide letter format full of bias and charged language is a reasonable response to OP's feedback? You aren't.

Your bestest bestest friend for3ver,

Buttaface

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

1 hour ago, EinheriarJudith said:

its is not opinion its fact.

So, people who do is for the rewards or for fun are doing it wrong in your opinion....sorry in fact?  Good to know.  Simply because a mode is made to facilitate one factor of a game doesn't mean that that is its sole purpose.  If it were, then what need would we have for rotation rewards?

1 hour ago, EinheriarJudith said:

the affinity component is for focus because of how focus is lvled up through killing, so all they need to do is just make focus xp to replace affinity.

Yup, they just need to add more stuff to the game to fix a non-problem and a system that isn't broken.  Sounds like a not-so-great idea.

1 hour ago, EinheriarJudith said:

if you want to lvl up go somewhere else. as ive said affinity is quite easy to get and has no place in end game modes that are geared towards equipment that no longer need affinity.

Why not?  What difference is there between my MR 27 4 forma weapon or the 5th forma I just put on it and is now rank 0?  Is a non-potatoed, non-forma'd, rank 30 weapon going to outperform me?  If I only use 1 weapon, why can't my other weapons be under-leveled?  This all makes no sense.

This is also quite amusing, because it's quite clear that the OP doesn't actually care whether you have unranked weapons or not, just whether you are the host and whether you stay for 8 full rounds if you are.

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

15 minutes ago, Buttaface said:

It's plain that DE wants to limit leeching because they require max rank frames to do certain content. It's also plain that they haven't gone far enough because the problem is widespread.

You are aware that frames gain power as they rank up while weapons don't (minus the mod slots that open up to allow more mods, which is hardly a concern for high MR players)?

[Buttaface]

Just now, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

You are aware that frames gain power as they rank up while weapons don't (minus the mod slots that open up to allow more mods, which is hardly a concern for high MR players)?

No, having leveled every frame in the game but one, including all primes and all weapons but three, and having applied hundreds of forma to my gear over 3.5 years without ever leeching higher level content to do so, I wasn't even remotely aware that frames gain powers as they level up and weapons do not. What an amazing revelation.

Now, do you have anything to say about the fact that higher level game modes in WF are full and overflowing of leeches who contribute nothing to the team, that no rationalizations of that game reality are valid or possible, and that myself and many others think the problem is widespread enough for DE to either require all max gear or to remove affinity gain for certain -very few- higher level game modes?

 

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

8 minutes ago, Buttaface said:

No, having leveled every frame in the game but one, including all primes and all weapons but three, and having applied hundreds of forma to my gear over 3.5 years without ever leeching higher level content to do so, I wasn't even remotely aware that frames gain powers as they level up and weapons do not. What an amazing revelation.

Yet you don't seem to realize why frame restrictions are used by DE but not weapon restrictions?

8 minutes ago, Buttaface said:

Now, do you have anything to say about the fact that higher level game modes in WF are full and overflowing of leeches who contribute nothing to the team, that no rationalizations of that game reality are valid or possible, and that myself and many others think the problem is widespread enough for DE to either require all max gear or to remove affinity gain for certain -very few- higher level game modes?

Leeching is a problem...when people are actually leeching.  If someone brings a gun that isn't fully ranked and still contributes, they are not leeching.  Additionally, requiring max rank weapons will not stop leeching (actual leeching) as people will still want the rewards for no work.  They just won't be able to double dip while leveling (although I'm sure there are people who bring max rank stuff to AFK and get rewards already).

I'd ask why I can't run with under-ranked stuff with friends, or why you seem to think a rank 30 weapon with no forma and no potato is better than a freshly forma'd weapon with potato and a high MR, but you've already hand-waved all of that away as "rationalization" as if that's some sort of answer.

[Tsukinoki]

20 minutes ago, Buttaface said:

Now, do you have anything to say about the fact that higher level game modes in WF are full and overflowing of leeches who contribute nothing to the team

And do you honestly think that limiting them to max rank gear or removing affinity gains would change anything?
Focus leechers are still going to sit there and passively soak up focus while doing absolutely nothing.  Exactly like they do now.  Because they just want to get the focus and cant be bothered to actively play for it themselves.
Reward leechers who are there just for the wave rewards will just sit there and passively get those rewards while doing absolutely nothing.  Exactly like they do now.  Because they just want the rewards and can't be bothered to actively play for it themselves.

The leechers your'e complaining about wouldn't suddenly start contributing or start leeching less...they would just do exactly what they are doing now.
The only difference is that people who want to level gear and contribute....now can't.  Meaning less players of that variety and a higher chance of running across an actual leach.

[Buttaface]

10 minutes ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

Yet you don't seem to realize why frame restrictions are used by DE but not weapon restrictions?

Leeching is a problem...when people are actually leeching.  If someone brings a gun that isn't fully ranked and still contributes, they are not leeching.  Additionally, requiring max rank weapons will not stop leeching (actual leeching) as people will still want the rewards for no work.  They just won't be able to double dip while leveling (although I'm sure there are people who bring max rank stuff to AFK and get rewards already).

I'd ask why I can't run with under-ranked stuff with friends, or why you seem to think a rank 30 weapon with no forma and no potato is better than a freshly forma'd weapon with potato and a high MR, but you've already hand-waved all of that away as "rationalization" as if that's some sort of answer.

1. As to the first sentence, you are making that up. My point was that DE has taken some steps to limit leeching in a few higher modes by requiring max frames, and I and others claim there is more needed in these limits. We all know that frames gain powers as they level, and that is a tangent.

2. Would have no problem whatsoever with no restrictions on fully invite only squads. But again, that does not address the main point that the higher level game modes are full of leeches and shouldn't be.

3. WF higher level game modes are crammed full of leeches and this shouldn't be the case. Either support that or not, but please stop the tangents and rationalizations. Either you think leeching is a problem or you don't, but that -some- players can function with unleveled gear, have recently applied forma, etc., does not change the fact that the higher level game modes ARE full of leeches who contribute nothing.

[Buttaface]

12 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

And do you honestly think that limiting them to max rank gear or removing affinity gains would change anything?

Yes, absolutely, it would. If there is no affinity gain in a few high level modes, they will not be full of leeches seeking to get affinity on the cheap. The types of "players" seeking to leech would do so on OTHER TILES where they can still leech affinity. Wonder of wonders, they will be far more likely to be able to kill things on tiles like Hydron as well. They won't simply carry unleveled gear into modes where there is no affinity to leech. That was easy.

Will restrictions on a few higher level modes cure WF's problem of bad, permacarry players totally? Of course not, but it will be a good first step.

Edited May 16, 2019 by Buttaface

[Aldain]

Is it really that hard to use recruit chat if you want to go long in ESO?

I mean really, it isn't like being told to LIFT A STEAMROLLER WITH YOUR TEETH, its just....use recruit chat and get three other people who want to contribute.

Honestly it just screams "lazy" to me that you have a tool to work around the issue but you flat out refuse to use it.

Like using a screwdriver to pound a nail into wood when there is a hammer to the right, and then blaming the screwdriver for not being like a hammer.

Edited May 16, 2019 by Aldain

[Tsukinoki]

36 minutes ago, Buttaface said:

 That was easy.

Yes so easy you couldn't be bothered to read beyond one sentence!

How about you address the fact that there are more reasons to leech than just affinity, and that your "solution" won't really decrease leaching in the end since they'll just leach for other things.
Stop people from gaining affinity in ESO?  People will still leach for focus or the rewards, and nothing would have changed.  You'll still run across the same leaches and have the same complaints because they aren't doing anything and leave early.
Same goes for any mode that you try to "fix" to stop the leaching.

Edited May 16, 2019 by Tsukinoki

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

1 hour ago, Buttaface said:

1. As to the first sentence, you are making that up. My point was that DE has taken some steps to limit leeching in a few higher modes by requiring max frames, and I and others claim there is more needed in these limits. We all know that frames gain powers as they level, and that is a tangent.

It's not a tangent.  Why do you think DE hasn't required max weapons?

1 hour ago, Buttaface said:

2. Would have no problem whatsoever with no restrictions on fully invite only squads. But again, that does not address the main point that the higher level game modes are full of leeches and shouldn't be.

Are they though?  I don't know what your experience is, but again I have to ask what your definition of leeching is, because it seems like your definition means anyone who doesn't bring a fully maxed out loadout, whether they are contributing or not.

1 hour ago, Buttaface said:

3. WF higher level game modes are crammed full of leeches and this shouldn't be the case. Either support that or not, but please stop the tangents and rationalizations. Either you think leeching is a problem or you don't, but that -some- players can function with unleveled gear, have recently applied forma, etc., does not change the fact that the higher level game modes ARE full of leeches who contribute nothing.

Why do things have to be one or the other?  That's a false dichotomy.

Regardless, I do think leeching is a problem, depending on how one defines leeching, and I'm very sure that we don't have the same definition.  Again, if your definition is anyone who doesn't bring a fully maxed out loadout, then we don't agree on definitions.  I don't see an issue with bringing under leveled gear provided the player is contributing to the mission.  If your concern is people not contributing, then requiring max weapons isn't going to achieve what you want and will simply keep people from playing the mode.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

2 hours ago, Buttaface said:

No, having leveled every frame in the game but one, including all primes and all weapons but three, and having applied hundreds of forma to my gear over 3.5 years without ever leeching higher level content to do so, I wasn't even remotely aware that frames gain powers as they level up and weapons do not. What an amazing revelation.

Good thing that you know it now, I suppose, but it suggests that you are singularly unobservant when it comes to this game, and possibly other things as well. Which leads us to:

3 hours ago, Buttaface said:

Expanding a rationalization of leeching already dealt with prior into a whole post doesn't make it any less of a weak rationalization.

Your inability to comprehend what others have said ≠ them saying whatever strawman you decide to build. 

A squad with 4 players, each with at least a single good weapon capable of carrying if need be, isn't going to be the same a squad of leechers, by any definition. 

If you need 3 people in fully levelled, fully forma'd gear to carry you, that's one thing. Many players don't seem to need anything close to that. I know that I don't depend on others to carry me, so I really dgaf what they carry as long as they are able to contribute as needed. 

[Unagi604]

Just go to recruiting chat or set up your own squad. Seriously. Don't ask the world to change for you if it's a problem that you can already fix yourself.

[xV3NOMx]

6 hours ago, Buttaface said:

 I have already argued that the whole starchart except for specialized higher level tiles should be open to leeching, and compounds the "form your own squad if you don't like it" rationalization dealt with in a prior post.

The "higher level tiles" in Warframe are Dark Sector nodes of planets, which is used for gaining Affinity bonuses per kills.

[ You haven't rationalized or explained your points, instead just adding more confusion to what is not a problem in Warframe.]

 

I suggest you should accept the advice of other Players and "form your own squad if you don't like it" or play the game in "Solo" mode.

[ZarTham]

most likely someone already said what i'm about to say....

Pre-made squad...

Stop trying to dictate wtf I should and should not do in a public run.

And yes, I do pub ESO to lvlup stuff, although I try to bring along something useful, and guess what, most of the time I get a S#&$ty squad, that's what I get for going ESO on public, life's a *@##$, deal with it.

That's what pre-made squads are for, to have a good setup for the mission, that's what clans are for, so you have ppl to rely on when you need, unless you have a S#&$ty clan ofc.

Edited May 16, 2019 by ZarTham

[Zelmen]

Or you know, make a mission that has enemies the same level as ESO so people can get the high XP ESO offers. I also don't rely on match making system. If I want to Min Max I don't leave it up to chance to get decent teammates. There is always one player that ruins the mission from leaching /afking to being just new and doesn't understand (can't get too mad at them)

I always tell people to bring buff frames, as long as you buff people to make up for not DPSing I think its a fair trade off. The thing that bothers me the most is those that leave at odd numbers. Stay one more and get the damn rad relic.

[(NSW)Lunavay]

Weapon level is not indicative of its power. I'm sure there are people with level 20 weapons dealing more damage than your level 30 weapon. Lol. 

And we haven't gone into the idea of some frames put out DPS using skills instead of weapons. 

[(NSW)Hatemachine]

This is what you get by playing PuG, you never know what your going to get & pretty much either have to suck it up & deal with it, or form your own groups, there is no reason to impose a penalty on anyone because you didnt put the effort out there to group up for a dedicated mission, your wanting to shirk your own responsibility in organizing a group to make things "easier" on yourself & putting the blame on DE & other players for doing what is human nature aka path of least resistance, thats why we have vacuum cleaners & dishwashers.

Granted i have ZERO tolerance for the tools who do nothing & truly leech or parasite onto a mission, but which is easier on DEs part to fix, insert & alter code dependant on each player accessing the mission tile to scan & check for adequate gear, MR & so on? or make players organize via chat functions teams to execute the mission they way they want?

Lord knows the buggy fun we already have with host migrations alone, you really think DE would get this limiting idea right? Let alone maintain it & keep another system from bugging out.

[(NSW)Hatemachine]

Actually, i think I can do ya better, so instead of an unnecessary systemn dedicated to a single game mode, why not a group search limiter? A means by which YOU set the search parameters for MR or DPS able players.

FF XIV has something like that & even WoW, just set the base to what your seeking in terms of player stats & so on, then others who match your selections are all you get teamed up with for PuGs accross the board in the waiting rooms, this would et you select from players looking to go truly endless to just 10 rounds then moving on, it puts the search in your hands instead of forcing DE to establish some arbitrary system of balance that could either be ineffective or detrimental to the desired purpose.

Just a thought.

[Buttaface]

22 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

Yes so easy you couldn't be bothered to read beyond one sentence!

How about you address the fact that there are more reasons to leech than just affinity, and that your "solution" won't really decrease leaching in the end since they'll just leach for other things.
Stop people from gaining affinity in ESO?  People will still leach for focus or the rewards, and nothing would have changed.  You'll still run across the same leaches and have the same complaints because they aren't doing anything and leave early.
Same goes for any mode that you try to "fix" to stop the leaching.

No. You offered yet another rationalization, that leeches will still leech focus and wave rewards. Of course -some- players will do this. No one said capping gear levels or removing affinity gain would alleviate all types of leeching altogether. Arguing against that, as you are doing, is a textbook straw man.

"My car has a gasket leak, is running through coolant and overheating, I need to get the gasket replaced."

"It won't do any good, your car still has a squeaky wheel bearing and a broken air conditioner, so replacing the gasket won't help."

So yeah, the first sentence was all that was worth addressing. Then you pressed the point.

A vast, undeniable majority of leeching in WF is affinity leeching, not focus or rotation leeching, so it's reasonable to conclude that removing the possibility of affinity leeching from a few higher level game modes will in fact remove many affinity leeches from those modes.

The rationalizations and fallacious tangents need to end, not replying to any more of them.