Talk about The Lotus *SPOILER*

[ChaoticEdge]

The Lotus turn out to use to be human until she was created as sentient as a mimic being as same goes with other one referring to mother, so this is sentient revenge against the orokin because they use to be human and trying to stop the returning of the orokin returning into power but mostly I might disagree with revenge thing for which I think the lotus is confused and also feel like also lost child.  To think about it Lotus has been fighting alone whole time using warframe frames to go out to fight and using the sentient mimic that she controls.  Noted she said sentient is a piece of her flesh like those infested (which it would be good time Rick & Morty make a joke about that about now how she got crabs or something like that) for wondering who is the original sentient who started the sentient colony which no one ask about that...we get to that later to the main topic.

As time being we know Lotus had a family and use to be a normal life but the weird thing is where she even speak about it which no dice for that which another subject is interested me that she knows the void is in the operator and she does believe its a living thing which I went back the mission every time to farm mods from the boss which got me wondering about how much does she knows the void or the being that lives there?

For there is so little answer for I wonder did she still love the tenno or seek for a hope in the children to change their destiny who they are or what they will become, I am always curious about lotus thoughts even in her long memories for which one is she for is she Marglest or Natah or he could be both or neither.  I hope we don't have to make a sacrifice of the Lotus for what I wanna sacrifice is that Ballas guy because he wanted to be beautiful than anything but beauty doesn't stay so I recommended then I shall give him be beautiful in death for he shall be.

[SprinKah]

No dude, Sentient was all machine, created by the Orokin, but they gained sentience and....well...the Orokin feared that and they tried to destroy them. I mean if they were humans, Natah (Lotus) wouldn't have said things like....became craving for life and stuff in the Ropalolyst boss fight.

Lotus was born from mama and papa sentient, dunno how they procreate and stuff though but we know that they were capable of doing so before their...mass infertility. Natah stated that she's a mimic, to deceive and infiltrate, that's why she has a human-ish face. 

Anyway, I hope Natah stays a villain like this, it's way more interesting. or at least for a long while. And she sounds pretty....in-control tbh. 

[Ephemiel]

41 minutes ago, ChaoticEdge said:

The Lotus turn out to use to be human until she was created as sentient as a mimic being as same goes with other one referring to mother, so this is sentient revenge against the orokin because they use to be human and trying to stop the returning of the orokin returning into power but mostly I might disagree with revenge thing for which I think the lotus is confused and also feel like also lost child.  To think about it Lotus has been fighting alone whole time using warframe frames to go out to fight and using the sentient mimic that she controls.  Noted she said sentient is a piece of her flesh like those infested (which it would be good time Rick & Morty make a joke about that about now how she got crabs or something like that) for wondering who is the original sentient who started the sentient colony which no one ask about that...we get to that later to the main topic.

As time being we know Lotus had a family and use to be a normal life but the weird thing is where she even speak about it which no dice for that which another subject is interested me that she knows the void is in the operator and she does believe its a living thing which I went back the mission every time to farm mods from the boss which got me wondering about how much does she knows the void or the being that lives there?

For there is so little answer for I wonder did she still love the tenno or seek for a hope in the children to change their destiny who they are or what they will become, I am always curious about lotus thoughts even in her long memories for which one is she for is she Marglest or Natah or he could be both or neither.  I hope we don't have to make a sacrifice of the Lotus for what I wanna sacrifice is that Ballas guy because he wanted to be beautiful than anything but beauty doesn't stay so I recommended then I shall give him be beautiful in death for he shall be.

I don't think you understood at all what she was saying.

[sleepychewbacca]

33 minutes ago, Ephemiel said:

I don't think you understood at all what she was saying.

It could have also been allegory vs being directly literal. 

"My father was a carpenter, my mother a farmer" - the Sentients were terraforming machines, it is possible that they were also separated depending on their particular roles; a "carpenter" would make furniture/buildings/tools while a "farmer" would take care of matters related to the cultivation of plants. The light that the Sentients were given is their purpose, the creation of a new home for the Empire. The form of the sentence, that they were to bring the Orokin a better world, is also a direct analogy to the same sentence said by Ballas in the Vitruvian. Heck, Natah aslo refers to the Ropalolyst as being her "same flesh", or similar. 

There is continued by reference to "the Golden Lords" ie the Orokin; it's a name for them that has appeared in the game previously, or the reference to the "Golden Wrath", which is obviously the Old War. So allegories are very possible, vs her making a literal statement. 

We'd only know for certain when the New War hits. But in the meantime, the possibilities are quite chilling. I'm quite excited for Natah as an enemy that we'd have to beat. 

Edited May 24, 2019 by sleepychewbacca

[Chewarette]

6 minutes ago, sleepychewbacca said:

It could have also been allegory vs being directly literal. 

I've only made one run but the first part of her monologue ends with "or so we were told", which seems to refer to the "I took mercy" part but that could perfectly refer to everything she said before. Like, it was what she was indoctrinated to believe. So maybe this carpenter father and farmer mother were just the "foundation backstory" of Lotus' or Margulis' personality which was used to control Natah.

Edited May 24, 2019 by Chewarette

[ChaoticEdge]

15 minutes ago, SprinKah said:

No dude, Sentient was all machine, created by the Orokin, but they gained sentience and....well...the Orokin feared that and they tried to destroy them. I mean if they were humans, Natah (Lotus) wouldn't have said things like....became craving for life and stuff in the Ropalolyst boss fight.

Lotus was born from mama and papa sentient, dunno how they procreate and stuff though but we know that they were capable of doing so before their...mass infertility. Natah stated that she's a mimic, to deceive and infiltrate, that's why she has a human-ish face. 

Anyway, I hope Natah stays a villain like this, it's way more interesting. or at least for a long while. And she sounds pretty....in-control tbh. 

 

no then why the sentient lore said they are alive and say stuff about their glow part has a soul screaming in agony as to the orokin didn't have the technology or otherwise they would of made fail-safe switch button from the sentient that might go rouge long time ago which it wasn't created by Orokin, people said and theory something created out of the beyond reach to make these as sentients. Lotus is made from the memories of Margols and the same time being Natah for don't forget that which possible evident Margols might able obtain kuva during that time and the only weapon can really kill kuva might be the paramices which ballas which he does have cleaver trick in his hand to transfer Margol into the sentient mimic.

 

  The sentient like Natah would of remember her origin exactly but this proves the point that Margol is really living inside in Natah for its like that fallout game about character name "Dog" (the super mutant) and there is that other guy the smart super mutant of his personality which possible of Natah and Margol is doing the same thing having split personality and sharing faults memories with each other to correct this for sign of disabilities within instance there.  This proves even more that  timeline she spoke about was the sentient to exact which they came down from the sky and kill everyone for could be that or it could be exactly the orokin did except they were trying make sure they kept the immortal which it wouldn't make sense why the sentient need kuva but proof they are alive is the Eidolon guy lore spoke about it the Eidolon learn that not destroy the tower but become it to gain its sources to believed.

At the time being we don't know the full truth about the lore for the fact people pointed out the orokin ship out the space beyond the reach of their own kind and sentient robotic come out that one for claim other viewers.  At the time being we have to leave that point are the sentient are they really alive or that we assumed that to be they are souless machine.  For the time will tell who is right and who is wrong.

[0_The_F00l]

Here's what it sounds like to me:

Natahs 'parents' were responsible for Terra forming tau. 

They changed, or became sentient somewhere along their long journey. 

They came to the conclusion that orokin are the enemy. 

They realized the tenno are their most lethal weapons. 

They could not defeat the Orokin directly. 

They created a spy, natah, a mimic. 

Natahs objective : Sabotage the tenno, 

Natah is captured by Ballas , at the same time Margulis that was taking care of the tenno is executed. 

Ballas heartbroken experiments and tries to bring back Margulis using the mimic, and forms a partnership with the sentients.

He succeeds partially, the new entity is neither Margulis or natah but has drives of both (Margulis love for tenno and the sentient objective to destroy orokin) 

Lotus is born and her agenda finds a median, protect the tenno and use them to destroy the Orokin. 

Tenno still love lotus / Margulis and agree to help overthrow the Orokin. 

The great betrayal ensues, the lotus then tries to protect them by pushing the moon in the void. 

Years pass. 

The tenno re awaken. 

 

[SprinKah]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

12

59 minutes ago, ChaoticEdge said:

no then why the sentient lore said they are alive and say stuff about their glow part has a soul screaming in agony as to the orokin didn't have the technology or otherwise they would of made fail-safe switch button from the sentient that might go rouge long time ago which it wasn't created by Orokin, people said and theory something created out of the beyond reach to make these as sentients. Lotus is made from the memories of Margols and the same time being Natah for don't forget that which possible evident Margols might able obtain kuva during that time and the only weapon can really kill kuva might be the paramices which ballas which he does have cleaver trick in his hand to transfer Margol into the sentient mimic.

 

  The sentient like Natah would of remember her origin exactly but this proves the point that Margol is really living inside in Natah for its like that fallout game about character name "Dog" (the super mutant) and there is that other guy the smart super mutant of his personality which possible of Natah and Margol is doing the same thing having split personality and sharing faults memories with each other to correct this for sign of disabilities within instance there.  This proves even more that  timeline she spoke about was the sentient to exact which they came down from the sky and kill everyone for could be that or it could be exactly the orokin did except they were trying make sure they kept the immortal which it wouldn't make sense why the sentient need kuva but proof they are alive is the Eidolon guy lore spoke about it the Eidolon learn that not destroy the tower but become it to gain its sources to believed.

At the time being we don't know the full truth about the lore for the fact people pointed out the orokin ship out the space beyond the reach of their own kind and sentient robotic come out that one for claim other viewers.  At the time being we have to leave that point are the sentient are they really alive or that we assumed that to be they are souless machine.  For the time will tell who is right and who is wrong.

Do you know that the Sentient were basically like...the Sentinels, bio-mechanical machines, we all know now that Orokin hasn't really used...actual, alloy metal and stuff for all of their creations, everything has something organic. Anyway, they were sent to the Tau system to do...terra forming or whatever the Orokin wanted to do. But they gained sentience, intelligence, soul. Orokin didn't make a fail-safe button lmao, that's what lead to their downfall that's for sure.

If you paid attention to the Sacrifice Vitruvian dialogues, you would get the full story of the Sentient. I hope you played it, if not:

 

 

 

 

3

Spoiler

"What led us here? You did, you vile blasphemies. Machines... Thinking... Breeding... You were to bear us a new, promised land. But when you arrived at that distant world, you knew that in time, we would bring ruin to it as well, as we had to Earth. And so it was... we came to war." It's simple really. 

That's the line from the Sacrifice that Ballas addressed to the Sentient, or Natah per se as she's shown during that dialogue. 

As for Natah, Sentient Lotus. I'm PRETTY sure that she was originally sent to destroy us, sent to us to play the role of a...mother, mimic a mother ̣̣(An advanced Mimic sentient per se). But I suppose she got too....comfortable and forgot her original goal, or maybe Ballas made her like that...idk. But she forgot what her original objective is. And after the Sacrifice...she's here now, as a sentient. 

Now who knows, maybe they WERE humans, turned into Orokin "machines" that were sent to Tau that became the Sentient. 

 

[AltheusV]

Lotus doesn't love us anymore, she has her new children now.

[Ced23Ric]

I feel like we need to talk about where the Sentients came from.

 

Orokin sit around, being smug blue shining demigods.

Corpus bro walks in.

Corpus: "Ay yo, maybe don't execute me, because I made a thing like you wanted."

Ballas: "It's a DANGOROUSE THANG"

Orokin: "Nah fam, the thing is kinda doodoo, let's off you."

Corpus: "But it can travel through space and then colonize Tau and it's gonna be a hoot. Look."

Thing is shot, and regenerates, but is also now resilient to the meme-ammo of the Orokin guards.

Ballas: "VER DANGER!"

Orokin: "Well, that's kinda neato, and we want that, so, uh..."

Ballas: "DANGER DANGER, THING WILL BE THE WORST BEST KILL NOW"

Orokin: "No, shut it, Ballas, we really kinda like the thing now, and the Corpus guy, too. So no execution."

Ballas: "Awh. Kay."

Some time later.

Ballas: "lol I tricked them all, ur machine is go"

Corpus: "You're a douchenozzle, Ballas."

Ballas: "dohohohohohohohohoho."

 

This is canon. A Corpus researcher created the very first blob of Sentient "thing" to travel space and prep Tau for Orokin parties. No one wanted it, because it spelled doom right from the get-go (Like, Skynet-levels of doom), but Ballas manipulated the other Orokin by a) showing off how cool the thing is, and b) then threatening to destroy it, under the nebulous guise of danger, insinuating fear with the other Orokin. In turn, they all voted to spare the researcher and push the Sentient project along. 

Ballas has been in this from day one, and every single whoopsie-daisy leads back to him.

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

I can't wait until we get to finally kill Space Mom. So sick of her patronizing BS.

[Babak_the_gaurdian]

6 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Here's what it sounds like to me:

Natahs 'parents' were responsible for Terra forming tau. 

They changed, or became sentient somewhere along their long journey. 

They came to the conclusion that orokin are the enemy. 

They realized the tenno are their most lethal weapons. 

They could not defeat the Orokin directly. 

They created a spy, natah, a mimic. 

Natahs objective : Sabotage the tenno, 

Natah is captured by Ballas , at the same time Margulis that was taking care of the tenno is executed. 

Ballas heartbroken experiments and tries to bring back Margulis using the mimic, and forms a partnership with the sentients.

He succeeds partially, the new entity is neither Margulis or natah but has drives of both (Margulis love for tenno and the sentient objective to destroy orokin) 

Lotus is born and her agenda finds a median, protect the tenno and use them to destroy the Orokin. 

Tenno still love lotus / Margulis and agree to help overthrow the Orokin. 

The great betrayal ensues, the lotus then tries to protect them by pushing the moon in the void. 

Years pass. 

The tenno re awaken. 

 

that actually makes sense.....

but what about Lotus's sense of motherhood and her well-known desire to have a child?

[Babak_the_gaurdian]

Does anybody think NoraNight might come back to take Lotus's place as our guide?

 

[Veridian]

8 minutes ago, Babak_the_gaurdian said:

Does anybody think NoraNight might come back to take Lotus's place as our guide?

 

If there was ever a suggestion that would make me quit.

Remimds me of what happened with the game prototype when they replaced an awesome anti-hero with some angry black dude stereotype.

Still:

#changethebloodyhologramalready

Edited May 24, 2019 by Ver1dian

[Ephemiel]

13 minutes ago, Babak_the_gaurdian said:

that actually makes sense.....

but what about Lotus's sense of motherhood and her well-known desire to have a child?

Again, she explains in the Ropalolyst node, all that was a lie, not one she told us in an attempt to trick the Tenno, but what she was brainwashed to believed. All of that could ultimately be the Margulis personality's desires.

[0_The_F00l]

15 minutes ago, Babak_the_gaurdian said:

that actually makes sense.....

but what about Lotus's sense of motherhood and her well-known desire to have a child?

It was margulis desire, same reason she cared for the tenno in the first place. 

[Babak_the_gaurdian]

17 minutes ago, Ephemiel said:

Again, she explains in the Ropalolyst node, all that was a lie, not one she told us in an attempt to trick the Tenno, but what she was brainwashed to believed. All of that could ultimately be the Margulis personality's desires.

do you know how can i reply her new message?
i repeated the mission but it didn't play anymore

[Ephemiel]

27 minutes ago, Babak_the_gaurdian said:

do you know how can i reply her new message?
i repeated the mission but it didn't play anymore

So far, just play the Assassination node, she seems to always talk.

[ChaoticEdge]

11 hours ago, SprinKah said:

Do you know that the Sentient were basically like...the Sentinels, bio-mechanical machines, we all know now that Orokin hasn't really used...actual, alloy metal and stuff for all of their creations, everything has something organic. Anyway, they were sent to the Tau system to do...terra forming or whatever the Orokin wanted to do. But they gained sentience, intelligence, soul. Orokin didn't make a fail-safe button lmao, that's what lead to their downfall that's for sure.

If you paid attention to the Sacrifice Vitruvian dialogues, you would get the full story of the Sentient. I hope you played it, if not:

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

3

  Reveal hidden contents

"What led us here? You did, you vile blasphemies. Machines... Thinking... Breeding... You were to bear us a new, promised land. But when you arrived at that distant world, you knew that in time, we would bring ruin to it as well, as we had to Earth. And so it was... we came to war." It's simple really. 

That's the line from the Sacrifice that Ballas addressed to the Sentient, or Natah per se as she's shown during that dialogue. 

As for Natah, Sentient Lotus. I'm PRETTY sure that she was originally sent to destroy us, sent to us to play the role of a...mother, mimic a mother ̣̣(An advanced Mimic sentient per se). But I suppose she got too....comfortable and forgot her original goal, or maybe Ballas made her like that...idk. But she forgot what her original objective is. And after the Sacrifice...she's here now, as a sentient. 

Now who knows, maybe they WERE humans, turned into Orokin "machines" that were sent to Tau that became the Sentient. 

 

Ahh that where is the twist plot come in for sentinels are original made by orokin but remember Ordius how he become a machine for he was made bio made or brain casing for everything, most of all the part I mention about the Eidolodon absourbing kuva and kuva is still living essances of some orokin for which don't for get these are Teshin's words.  As time being we know Eidolodon can fused or absourbed Kuva essances for proof they can drink kuva (in weird matter way), for it could be possible Margoul already have kuva of small possible to be or either Ballas made sure she had part kuva for her to be vaporized so he can grab part her remaining memories becoming in mimic machine in Natah.  Surpisingly funny thing about it I haven't seen 1 sentient being dress as gold (mind bubble trying imagine if sentient really colored gold). 

Anyway again, this prove that Lotus is having the same dialog like the character name "Dog" from fallout

Spoiler

a person in trouble crists dealing with double personality except for Lotus is more likely in unstable which all following the link again disabilities of truamas effects.  Pretty much Ballas will treat as it was a machine and still he was hoping to die beautiful and stay dead (until he got his plan screwed over for he was hoping he'll die of his sins).  Personally we were able link the mind of Umbra Excal for his mind was traumatized following the statement of rage.  This lead to the view Lotus is suffering one those symtoms of one the odds that she is in the same spot self tantrum as well (mother tantrum).

[(PSN)wintersfrozen]

15 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Natah is captured by Ballas , at the same time Margulis that was taking care of the tenno is executed. 

Ballas heartbroken experiments and tries to bring back Margulis using the mimic, and forms a partnership with the sentients.

He succeeds partially, the new entity is neither Margulis or natah but has drives of both (Margulis love for tenno and the sentient objective to destroy orokin) 

 

The great betrayal ensues, the lotus then tries to protect them by pushing the moon in the void. 

So touch on one or two things.

1) We don't know if it was Ballas that made Natah into the Lotus. (Its likely he over saw the program or had a hand in it but we also tend to forget he isn't the only Orokin and with his soon to be passing [face it were gonna have to use the sword he gave us to kill him with] its likely we will be introduced to more shortly)

2) Its not actually confirmed that it was Natah that put the moon in the void only that she lied to the tenno and kept it secret. With the revelation that she was captive on Lua with us its not too surprising that she would know where it was and our first meeting with the lotus takes place only after we enter lua and pull it from the void. (her putting our tenno in their chair and asking them some questions that only change your starting school). The next time we go to speak with her face to face we are greeted by her flashback of leaving and her lone helmet on the ground. The final time we see her is during the sacrifice where she runs off with nearly dead dad ballas.

3) Natah's memories as the lotus are super jacked. As in its in bits and pieces and she isn't really sure what's real and what isn't. The Mirage quest has bits of memory in it she recalls but at the same time doesn't. As though it itself is a dream to her. There are also things she takes credit for (or is assumed she takes credit for based on her responses) only to find out that it was an action Margulas did instead. (its like a lore friendly ret-con)

As a bit of a side (in a theory I saw somewhere) someone mentioned how the concept of the lotus might just be the helmet itself. Which would be an interesting take as Natah fights against being a sentient for as long as she is wearing the helmet saying how she has given all of that up for us, the tenno. Yet the first time we see her without the helmet she is mostly sentient in appearance and pretty much tells us to leave her alone and then goes home to her own mother. With the new dialogue before the flydolon fight she goes even further to more or less tell us that she isn't our mother anymore and that she never was. So with that the helmet changing so much of Natahs personality its possible that the Helmet might house a sort of AI (the lotus) that we will allow us to resurrect the lotus in the future. Keep in mind though it was just speculation and would need more research to back up completely. Though personally I find it an enjoyable concept that might allow Lotus lovers to get some peace with the "but I miss my space mom" while still giving those who felt less fond feelings to her due to the lies, deceit and reveals over the games course a satisfying conclusion.

[Loza03]

Genetic algorithms are a thing that exist.

It's likely that Sentients were programmed with the ability to meld individual charactersitics to produce new abilities. In this case, combining a 'farmer' with the ability to replicate organic matter for terraforming farmland and a 'carpenter' who can build new structures to produce an entity capable of replicating pre-existing organic structures - a mimic.

[Rivyn]

18 hours ago, SprinKah said:

No dude, Sentient was all machine, created by the Orokin, but they gained sentience and....well...the Orokin feared that and they tried to destroy them. I mean if they were humans, Natah (Lotus) wouldn't have said things like....became craving for life and stuff in the Ropalolyst boss fight.

Lotus was born from mama and papa sentient, dunno how they procreate and stuff though but we know that they were capable of doing so before their...mass infertility. Natah stated that she's a mimic, to deceive and infiltrate, that's why she has a human-ish face. 

Anyway, I hope Natah stays a villain like this, it's way more interesting. or at least for a long while. And she sounds pretty....in-control tbh. 

I don't mind her being the villain, so long as I get the choice to side with her. Mama's boy all the way.

[0_The_F00l]

2 hours ago, (PS4)wintersfrozen said:

So touch on one or two things.

1) We don't know if it was Ballas that made Natah into the Lotus. (Its likely he over saw the program or had a hand in it but we also tend to forget he isn't the only Orokin and with his soon to be passing [face it were gonna have to use the sword he gave us to kill him with] its likely we will be introduced to more shortly)

I was being brief, I do not mean that he literally welded natah and margulis with his bare hands. He could have manipulated people into getting it done by multiple means. 

 

3 hours ago, (PS4)wintersfrozen said:

2) Its not actually confirmed that it was Natah that put the moon in the void only that she lied to the tenno and kept it secret. With the revelation that she was captive on Lua with us its not too surprising that she would know where it was and our first meeting with the lotus takes place only after we enter lua and pull it from the void. (her putting our tenno in their chair and asking them some questions that only change your starting school). The next time we go to speak with her face to face we are greeted by her flashback of leaving and her lone helmet on the ground. The final time we see her is during the sacrifice where she runs off with nearly dead dad ballas.

True, there is no specific mention of lotus pushing it into the void. Might have been an orokin last ditch effort to seal the tenno away by some means. But the dialogue between lotus and Alad V when first discovering Lua has strong implications that she did it. Further story development may give more details. 

 

3 hours ago, (PS4)wintersfrozen said:

3) Natah's memories as the lotus are super jacked. As in its in bits and pieces and she isn't really sure what's real and what isn't. The Mirage quest has bits of memory in it she recalls but at the same time doesn't. As though it itself is a dream to her. There are also things she takes credit for (or is assumed she takes credit for based on her responses) only to find out that it was an action Margulas did instead. (its like a lore friendly ret-con)

Effects of the experiment? Sure could have leftover memories from either party.

3 hours ago, (PS4)wintersfrozen said:

As a bit of a side (in a theory I saw somewhere) someone mentioned how the concept of the lotus might just be the helmet itself. Which would be an interesting take as Natah fights against being a sentient for as long as she is wearing the helmet saying how she has given all of that up for us, the tenno. Yet the first time we see her without the helmet she is mostly sentient in appearance and pretty much tells us to leave her alone and then goes home to her own mother. With the new dialogue before the flydolon fight she goes even further to more or less tell us that she isn't our mother anymore and that she never was. So with that the helmet changing so much of Natahs personality its possible that the Helmet might house a sort of AI (the lotus) that we will allow us to resurrect the lotus in the future. Keep in mind though it was just speculation and would need more research to back up completely. Though personally I find it an enjoyable concept that might allow Lotus lovers to get some peace with the "but I miss my space mom" while still giving those who felt less fond feelings to her due to the lies, deceit and reveals over the games course a satisfying conclusion.

Imagine this : Lotus is the first amalgam prototype. we know Cephalons are made from personalities and memories (not always allowed to keep memories) of once living beings (Ordis lore is so nice why can't we have more stories like that?) the lotus helm may very well hold the core Cephalon data of margulis. 

[(PSN)Silverback73]

3 hours ago, (PS4)wintersfrozen said:

So touch on one or two things.

1) We don't know if it was Ballas that made Natah into the Lotus. (Its likely he over saw the program or had a hand in it but we also tend to forget he isn't the only Orokin and with his soon to be passing [face it were gonna have to use the sword he gave us to kill him with] its likely we will be introduced to more shortly)

2) Its not actually confirmed that it was Natah that put the moon in the void only that she lied to the tenno and kept it secret. With the revelation that she was captive on Lua with us its not too surprising that she would know where it was and our first meeting with the lotus takes place only after we enter lua and pull it from the void. (her putting our tenno in their chair and asking them some questions that only change your starting school). The next time we go to speak with her face to face we are greeted by her flashback of leaving and her lone helmet on the ground. The final time we see her is during the sacrifice where she runs off with nearly dead dad ballas.

3) Natah's memories as the lotus are super jacked. As in its in bits and pieces and she isn't really sure what's real and what isn't. The Mirage quest has bits of memory in it she recalls but at the same time doesn't. As though it itself is a dream to her. There are also things she takes credit for (or is assumed she takes credit for based on her responses) only to find out that it was an action Margulas did instead. (its like a lore friendly ret-con)

As a bit of a side (in a theory I saw somewhere) someone mentioned how the concept of the lotus might just be the helmet itself. Which would be an interesting take as Natah fights against being a sentient for as long as she is wearing the helmet saying how she has given all of that up for us, the tenno. Yet the first time we see her without the helmet she is mostly sentient in appearance and pretty much tells us to leave her alone and then goes home to her own mother. With the new dialogue before the flydolon fight she goes even further to more or less tell us that she isn't our mother anymore and that she never was. So with that the helmet changing so much of Natahs personality its possible that the Helmet might house a sort of AI (the lotus) that we will allow us to resurrect the lotus in the future. Keep in mind though it was just speculation and would need more research to back up completely. Though personally I find it an enjoyable concept that might allow Lotus lovers to get some peace with the "but I miss my space mom" while still giving those who felt less fond feelings to her due to the lies, deceit and reveals over the games course a satisfying conclusion.

DK theorizes that the entire “Lotus” persona was not the result of Natah tapping into the collective Tenno memories to create Mimic-Margulis, but rather the result of being caught by the Orokin and imprisoned in Lua and subverting her skills into a tool to use against her Sentient family by supporting the Tenno and making her forget who she is.

[TARINunit9]

22 hours ago, ChaoticEdge said:

The Lotus turn out to use to be human until she was created as sentient as a mimic being as same goes with other one referring to mother

Completely wrong. Natah was always a Sentient ever since she was "born". She was transformed from a Sentient Civilian to a Sentient Mimic during the Old War, a process that was carried out voluntarily

22 hours ago, ChaoticEdge said:

so this is sentient revenge against the orokin because they use to be human

Nope. Sentients were artificial lifeforms, not transmogrified humans

22 hours ago, ChaoticEdge said:

but mostly I might disagree with revenge thing for which I think the lotus is confused and also feel like also lost child.

This is the only part of your posts that I semi agree with. Natah is trapped in multiple layers of brainwashing, yes

22 hours ago, ChaoticEdge said:

As time being we know Lotus had a family and use to be a normal life but the weird thing is where she even speak about it which no dice for that which another subject is interested me that she knows the void is in the operator and she does believe its a living thing which I went back the mission every time to farm mods from the boss which got me wondering about how much does she knows the void or the being that lives there?

Natah would have stolen a LOT of information about the Void when she first infiltrated the Orokin. In addition, Ballas has probably told her quite a lot as well

20 hours ago, ChaoticEdge said:

Lotus is made from the memories of Margols and the same time being Natah for don't forget that which possible evident Margols might able obtain kuva during that time and the only weapon can really kill kuva might be the paramices which ballas which he does have cleaver trick in his hand to transfer Margol into the sentient mimic.

One, it's spelled "Margulis". Two, Margulis wasn't killed by conventional means, she was killed by a special Orokin execution method called "jade light". This is clearly meant to invoke a perma-death that would prevent Kuva-based revival methods. While it is possible that Natah was forced to take some of Margulis's memories, Margulis isn't coming back

20 hours ago, ChaoticEdge said:

At the time being we don't know the full truth about the lore for the fact people pointed out the orokin ship out the space beyond the reach of their own kind and sentient robotic come out that one for claim other viewers.  At the time being we have to leave that point are the sentient are they really alive or that we assumed that to be they are souless machine.  For the time will tell who is right and who is wrong.

It's been pretty obvious for a while now that the Sentients are alive and aware, nobody was really arguing that they were 100% mindless killdroids. They USE mindless killdroids as frontline soldiers, but the commanders are clearly sapient, that much was obvious just my listening to Hunhow