Jovian Concord: Waste of great potential

[--Aegis--MR9]

How long it took DE to make Jovian Concord? 3 months? 6 months? I dont know. But I can tell, it took a while. Its a huge update. Lots of new content. 

How long it took me and my friends to be done with it? 1 day. And we have no reason to revisit it again in future. 

# We explored the new gas city and its remastered missions. Gas city is amazing, loved it. 
# We played a lot of disruption, finished the event, farmed enough hexenon for Wisp and new weapons. 
# Killed Ropalolyst few times, farmed wisp, helped people farming wisp, collected some new mods. 
# We made wisp and all new weapons .. rushed wisp and took her to hydron lol.

All done in 1 day and thats it. There isnt anything else to do that interests me.

Disruption is amazing, I LOVED it. But there are no reasons for me to play it again after collecting all hexenons I needed. Reward table isnt worth the effort. Arbitration is much better than disruption, we all need endos right?

Ropalolyst fight is meh, but it was nice to hear from Lotus after so long. I have no reason to fight Ropalolyst again, unless someone asks to help him farm wisp. 

What I am trying to say is, Jovian Concord wasnt sustainable, if that makes any sense, my English isnt very good. DE worked for months and we burnt through it in a day. While Jovian Concord is a great addition to the game, it isnt a solution to the content drought issue. 

Nightwave was a step in the right direction and now season 2 is being delayed by a lot. Nightwave seasons need to be back to back. Disruption can be fixed with better rewards but the hype is gone for me. Ropalolyst needs to man up and not die so easily. TBH, spidolon, flydolon, all feels like trash mob compared to Tridolons, which is still the most challenging fight in the game. DE, you think easier Bosses attract new players more, which may be true, but it makes the content boring very fast. 

I wanted to post this long before, but never managed to make the time. Sorry for the long read. Just logged into my orbiter and I kinda feel empty, with nothing to do. Except farming more kuva and rolling more rivens. Which is, needless to say, very boring. 60 rolls on my catchmoon and got nothing good. I am just frustrated overall. 

Love Warframe, Love DE, fingers crossed. 

[SpicyDinosaur]

Honestly, if you are breezing through content that fast, then there's nothin DE can push through that will entertain you for more than a day or two

[--Aegis--MR9]

7 minutes ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

Honestly, if you are breezing through content that fast, then there's nothin DE can push through that will entertain you for more than a day or two

Yes they can. Nightwave for example. Arbitration. Tridolons. They released many sustainable content, Jovian Concord wasnt one of em. 

I would love to farm Disruption and Ropalolyst if there was better reward and better challenge. But thats not the case. 

The key to keep players busy in any game, for a long time, is to create a loop, encourage the player to complete the loop with attractive reward, and do all this in a way that doesnt feel like a loop. 

[Xzorn]

It's just a tileset. I mean what potential did you expect? I finished it in a day also.

Lua, kuva, Ceres, Earth remaster and the others weren't game changers either.

It was just over hyped which DE does a lot.

Nightwave, Arbitrations, Tridolons, ect also aren't sustainable content either. Esp for long term players which is generally who sustainable content is for. When you own every Arcane and maxed Focus why would you do Tridolons? Similarly when you own every mod / ephemera in Arbitrations why would you do it? The only sustainable content DE has had is the same they've always had which are endless missions which they've shunned to the point no one wants to do them anymore and Arbitrations are just a gimpy version of those with limited loot. Maybe once in a while you'll get an Aura forma for a new frame but there's no Relics, no Kuva, no Riven or anything else you'd want long term. In theory Nightwave could be sustained but DE has already shown they can't do it.

...Oh and Kuva.farming is sustainable content; if you hate yourself enough.

Edited June 9, 2019 by Xzorn

[--Aegis--MR9]

50 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

It's just a tileset. I mean what potential did you expect? I finished it in a day also.

Lua, kuva, Ceres, Earth remaster and the others weren't game changers either.

It was just over hyped which DE does a lot.

Nightwave, Arbitrations, Tridolons, ect also aren't sustainable content either. Esp for long term players which is generally who sustainable content is for. When you own every Arcane and maxed Focus why would you do Tridolons? Similarly when you own every mod / ephemera in Arbitrations why would you do it? The only sustainable content DE has had is the same they've always had which are endless missions which they've shunned to the point no one wants to do them anymore and Arbitrations are just a gimpy version of those with limited loot. Maybe once in a while you'll get an Aura forma for a new frame but there's no Relics, no Kuva, no Riven or anything else you'd want long term. In theory Nightwave could be sustained but DE has already shown they can't do it.

...Oh and Kuva.farming is sustainable content; if you hate yourself enough.

I hear you. Still, its a brand new game mode and a brand new Eidolon. I was expecting more than a days worth of gameplay. 

I am down to farming kuva these days .. 😞

[DrivaMain]

1 hour ago, Xzorn said:

When you own every Arcane and maxed Focus why would you do Tridolons?

I still play Tridolons even after I got all the things I needed. The reason is that the Arcanes have plat value, So it incentivize me to play the boss fight over and over even even after I got what I needed.

If DE includes some tradable rare rewards that enchance the gameplay to The Ropalolyst or Disruption it would definitely be sustainable (those new mods don’t count because they are very situational), Arcanes are the example of this.

Edited June 9, 2019 by DrivaMain

[(PSN)Onder6099]

Speed runner complains about content drought and businessman stockpiling Plat is trying to say us: “Everything must be well rewarded to become worth to play”. Nice.

[Steel_Rook]

4 hours ago, MR9BCI said:

All done in 1 day and thats it. There isnt anything else to do that interests me.

Yeah, too bad they couldn't have made an entire new Tileset which is now going to spawn Alerts, Nightmare missions, Kuva Siphon/Flood missions, Syndicate missions, Arbitrations and Sorties, not to mention most of the game's standard mission types. If only they'd done that, then the content would have been infinitely replayable with the bulk of the game's content even outside of its launch window.

[Xzorn]

2 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

I still play Tridolons even after I got all the things I needed. The reason is that the Arcanes have plat value, So it incentivize me to play the boss fight over and over even even after I got what I needed.

If DE includes some tradable rare rewards that enchance the gameplay to The Ropalolyst or Disruption it would definitely be sustainable (those new mods don’t count because they are very situational), Arcanes are the example of this.

 

I agree that trade value for items keeps longevity but I don't really give Tridolons credit for that. It does work but not for long term players and in the end that type of commodity could be put in any content type. Tridolons as content never changes, never adjusts to power creep and only gets easier. It's strictly the bait of Arcanes that keeps players interested and not the content itself. The trade value will continue to drop until it's no longer sustaining players because all it's really providing is static reward bait.

Players drop out, new players come in. The whole supply / demand thing but it's all just the items while the content never changes.

I guess where I'm going is that "Sustainable Content" for me is something that changes, adapts to power creep and has both a trade / non-trade value. Kuva, Rivens and Ducats are examples of enduring currency / items. They maintain value since they're disposed. If something like Arbitrations dropped items like this instead of one-and-done items added to scaling difficulty / rewards that would be truly sustainable but sadly DE can't reward extra effort because the game is so broken.

[TaylorsContraction]

jovian concord is just a remade tile set.  it is an active effort by de to keep the game fresh graphically.

overall they did a great job,  the new Jupiter tile set is amazing.  everything else released with the remastered tile set is bonus candy.  it doesn't matter if you finished the new content in one day.

the tile set is here to stay forever and so is the new mode.  i have already ran tons of missions on Jupiter for sorties, invasions,  kuva missions,  relic farming. My pointis this new content will be enjoyed again and again as you normally play the game, and imo you missed the point of the update entirely.

[--Aegis--MR9]

On 2019-06-09 at 6:28 PM, TaylorsContraction said:

jovian concord is just a remade tile set.  it is an active effort by de to keep the game fresh graphically.

overall they did a great job,  the new Jupiter tile set is amazing.  everything else released with the remastered tile set is bonus candy.  it doesn't matter if you finished the new content in one day.

the tile set is here to stay forever and so is the new mode.  i have already ran tons of missions on Jupiter for sorties, invasions,  kuva missions,  relic farming. My pointis this new content will be enjoyed again and again as you normally play the game, and imo you missed the point of the update entirely.

Most of you guys missed what I was trying to say. 

No one complained about the new tileset, its fantastic. Hands down great job DE. 

But when you add an entirely new game-mode and an entirely new Eidolon fight into the game without enough intensive to revisit them, that is a potentially great content wasted. 

We still do index and we always will, why? The reward is important. We need credit. 
How many hours we spent in the Arena? Because the most important resource in this game is endo.
Arbitration got popular over time because of the same reason, we all need lots of endo.
Tridolons are not only fun with a proper team, its rewards are valuable. 
Even SO ESO has some value reward wise. 

Tell me how can disruption compete here after you farm all the hexenon you need, which only takes few runs. It is fun, but no one is going to repeat that for the fun of it. Same goes for Mr. Ropalolyst. 

This is a 7 year old game. We need contents that can survive a bit longer. Nightwave for example, I am 100% sure nightwave took very little time to develop compared to other game-modes and it has much better chance to keep players busy and nightwave can get better. Its not even a game mode, just a system to keep players engaged via better reward. How come they added an entire game mode that rewards .. relics? 😞

I appreciate Jovian Concord for what it is. But like I said, potential wasted. What if rail jack comes with some relics or bullet jump mods as reward? 

Edited June 15, 2019 by MR9BCI

[krc473]

1 minute ago, MR9BCI said:

Tell me how can disruption can compete here after you farm all the hexenon you need, which only takes few runs. It is fun, but no one is going to repeat that for the fun of it. Same goes for Mr. Ropalolyst. 

I don’t agree with this statement. If you have nothing else to do in the game, why not just play fun modes? Even when you have stuff to do, surely it’s a nice break to just do something fun in the game. Yes, it’s a grinding game, but having a break from grinding and just doing stuff for fun, and only fun, is good. 

 

I do do agree with you though. There is some potential in these modes. But there really is no reason to repeat them once you have what you need. I was done in less than two hours. It is possible that DE will add this incentive later though. 

[--Aegis--MR9]

On 2019-06-09 at 2:57 PM, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

Speed runner complains about content drought and businessman stockpiling Plat is trying to say us: “Everything must be well rewarded to become worth to play”. Nice.

If you arent a speed runner and businessman in Warframe, you are missing most of the fun. But seriously dude, I slow paced this update as much as I could, after farming my own wisp, I helped farming 10 other guys just so to have a reason to do the new boss fight few more times. We even did an endurance run in disruption just to see how long we can survive. It still got done in a day. 

Actually, most of my time in warframe was spent on trade chat. Its not about getting rich, its actually part of the game where you can spend some good time and get rewarded for it. Thanks God for warframe trading system! I can buy plat if I need to, but that feeling of selling my first narrow minded for 25p .. and buying that slot I was dying for .. thats quality gaming 🙂

Edited June 15, 2019 by MR9BCI

[(PSN)Voriki0]

I don't even know if there is a point to posting this, as endgame players will likely not even be able to have this perspective. But overall enjoy how you play any game that you choose.

Every game no matter how vast or unique, HAS A LIMIT. To the people who burn through literally all of warframe content from the biggest essentials to the most minute trade decisions: Nothing, no update, no item addition, NOTHING will supersede the fact that you have actually (in a practical sense) BEAT the game. 

It's not DE's fault and it's not anyone's fault. But claiming a content drought in a game that could actually take someone hundreds of hours to even get a single item they want through effort, or powerhouse the entire game with 1 warframe just to speed run it - means that you found the end. It doesn't mean there wasnt enough content. It means that from now on short of you being given a mission that's literally too hard to simply beat, there is nothing more for you to find in warframe except that which you love. These games are about personal goals as well as content. Have you beaten every mission node with just a melee? Have you lost yourself in slowly exploring a map rather than bullet jumping to a goal you have completed a thousand times prior to make it different for yourself?

Any game created is limited not by content (e.g. smash bros) but by the interest a player has in its platform, story, and experiential options of gameplay.  If you are burned or burning out on warframe, then may I suggest taking a break? Or at least having the awareness to be happy with how far you've come in the game without insulting the game for not constantly feeding our addiction to the procedural systems that make up its gameplay. 

I went through the whole universe mostly alone, with nothing but default Mag, Oberon, and limbo. Then I dropped off when I hit my own cieling. When I came back, there was so much to do I couldn't decide where to start. I've come so far from those days and still I love walking the plains of eidolon, I love seeing fashion frames, I love arbitrations, nightwaves, my favorite warframes that I worked and built all without paying for any item but slots. 

What I mean is that I sympathize with anyone craving more to a game theyve played a ton and loved. I want more content from warframe all the time! But if it's not fulfilling you anymore, if you've reached the pinnacle for what you've been striving for and cannot create any new goals yourself to follow or aspire to, then I highly suggest finding a different game to supplement your interests, or just take a few months away from the warframe universe so that when you come back maybe your mind won't be so dulled at the expectations you have for the game you chose to play into the ground. 

Tl:dr - Love what you play and love how you play. But don't fault any game without being aware that it was you who chose to burn the candle at both ends to its logical conclusion - beating a game. The gamer decides how fast, how fun, and how they will create themselves in any game, so please, make it a good experience for yourself and if you get burned out I'd advise trying not to blame the game for how you personally chose to approach it. Gg ty and have fun everyone! 

Edited June 16, 2019 by (PS4)Voriki0
Typo

[TurboWonka]

This update was made for average(most) players, and it is normal.
If i was average player, i would take some quite some time clearing this content.
And let's be honest, most people got their Disruption goal by teaming with 20+ mr guys with top frames and weapons.
My is point is you too "tryhard" in warframe, there is will be no endgame content for likes of us anytime soon.

Edited June 16, 2019 by TurboWonka

[Talonflight]

Tbh, while I love Jupiter, Im kinda salty that it got a visual update. There's still planets out there that use the exact same tileset as other planets. Why wasn't this opportunity taken to update one of the planets that ISNT used/updated much?

EDIT before someone starts screeching at me about being wrong:

Neptune and Pluto share a tileset, it uses Corpus Ice Planet (Europa) and Corpus Ship, and doesn't have its own.

Mercury and Saturn share tilesets - Grineer Galleon and Grineer Asteroid, another couple of "placeholder" tilesets.

Phobos uses Mars Grineer Desert.

Sedna is a mix of Grineer Shipyard (Ceres), Grineer Asteroid, and Grineer Galleon.

 

Edited June 17, 2019 by Talonflight

[Aldain]

Ralph is the best designed boss that DE has put out in years.

I take that as a win regardless of anything else in Jovian.

[--Aegis--MR9]

13 hours ago, (PS4)Voriki0 said:

I don't even know ---- have fun everyone! 

Dude you missed my point entirely. I wasnt complaining about content drought, I wasnt complaining about gas city rework. I was complaining about missed opportunity.

Warframe needs sustainable content, its not a complain, its a fact and even DE admitted it couple of times. Now DE worked on this update for many months. Good resources were spent on it. But how many hours of gameplay it offered? There is a new game mode a new Eidolon Boss. Why am I done in a day? Is it because I am end game player and have everything in game? No. My mr12 friend can solo disruption and Ropalolyst with his Inaros or Revenant. 

We all can see how much work and effort went into this massive update. Thats why its a missed opportunity. They could have provided better rewards for disruption, something that would encourage us to farm it, run it beyond the need of hexanons. Ropalolyst could be more tough more challenging, something that doesnt die when u press a button! 

It was a good opportunity to provide some sustainable content to keep players busy for longer period of time, but no .. where is the fun in that? 

Edited June 17, 2019 by MR9BCI

[Teridax68]

I don't think the criticism really works here, because outside of the Ropalolyst, none of the other bits of content you mentioned can truly be said to be finished after a day: putting aside how Wisp and the update's associated weapons are meant to be used more often by people who like them, not just for MR, the new Gas City tileset is a permanent improvement that will affect the core game forever. Did you play that Spy Sortie mission on Jupiter? Congratulations, you're playing content from the Jovian Concord. Doing a fissure on Jupiter? Jovian Concord.

To be honest, I'm kind of irritated by the OP, because I too have criticized DE in the past for putting inordinate amounts of work into throwaway content: Sanctuary Onslaught and Arbitrations are both very recent game modes, but ultimately none of them really add durably to the game, because once you get all the rewards (and those rewards are limited), there's no real reason to go back to them. The Plains of Eidolon and Orb Vallis are both absolutely gorgeous bits of content, but are completely isolated from the rest of the game, meaning the player has similarly no real reason to return after getting all the different rewards there. I'm of the opinion that DE should put less work into those... because I want them to put more work into updating core parts of the game, which includes tilesets. Updating a tileset means literally every piece of content that takes place in that tileset also gets to benefit from that update, and in this respect I think the Gas City tileset was perhaps one of the most durable content updates we've seen to date. Because of this, I think the Jovian Concord is the sort of update DE should be encouraged to make more of, not dismissed simply because one person blazed through all the content (an argument made all the more silly by the fact that we can blaze through any content, no matter how tough it's meant to be).

Edited June 17, 2019 by Teridax68

[KIREEK]

Updates have alot of things because each player decide on what they will do with said updates.

Personal decisons such as "get everything" are not DE's decision, it's yours.

But if you lack things to do, here are a few tips.

 - Certain rooms, especially very rare ones seem like they are geared towards something big, like the next updates, the trials replacement for example. Better practice them.

 - Certain rooms have relative complex entrances with breakable fans, but they lead to empty rooms with lockers, these rooms however have multiple orange doors, meaning they are a gateway for something in the future.

 - Spy and assassination reveal the next big upcoming boss batle, so you can prepare by exploring the enemy itself and by checking out the fight arena.

 - Secret rooms not only have sentient (and sentient drops) but have unique amalgam enemies that have unique drops, so that's new scans to do and new drops to aquire, as per usual in warframe, the more you get, the more you can sell, by selling something you can prepare yourself for future content, including the bypass of future grind, you can also use the excess for your clan, if you care that much that is

 - Fragments are scatered in various tilesets, unlocking new pictures and new lore.

 - oddly enough there are purple light bateries scatered around jupiter in very peculiar places, as if intentionally placed there, while it may have been replaced by fragment scaning, it's possible that will be part of a future update, so start looking for them and take notes, you might need them.

 - Exploring the maps in jupiter is recomended so you can take the most out of it ina survival for example, statues, stars, resources, all of that makes the difference.

 - hexenon farm is recomended since it's likely to be required in future updates, like railjack, not taking it seriously enough may cause problems in your clan, i for example will soon be requesting players to donate the resource

Edited June 17, 2019 by KIREEK

[Steel_Rook]

2 hours ago, MR9BCI said:

It was a good opportunity to provide some sustainable content to keep players busy for longer period of time, but no .. where is the fun in that? 

I suspect you're the one who's missing the point. The way I see it, the Jupiter Remastered tileset is the point of the update, and where the majority of the effort went. Both the Disruption game mode and the Ropalolyst fight are neat, but nowhere near the major selling point of the update. Not for people who haven't done everything and are only in it for the Skinner box, anyway. They're neat little additions, sure, which serve to advance the plot and give the game some more breadth (it IS a new game mode), but not even remotely the point.

Yes, Warframe requires sustainable content. Updates to an entire tileset potentially host to nearly all of the game's content is far more sustainable than whatever grind you could put into it. I'm going to keep saying this 'till I'm blue in the face - "things to do" are ultimately what keep a game compelling long-term. You can put all of the "things to earn" in the game you want, but you're never going to outpace your veteran players' ability to get it unless you make it pointlessly unfun to actually progress through. Rewards have a heavy diminishing return, both in terms of power creep and in terms of "I have everything I actually want now."

I've brought up Payday 2 a lot, and for good reason. That game's approach to adding more guns and more heists at a steady pace eventually rolled it over a "content hump." Past a certain point, there was so much to do that every time I looked at Crime.net, I could find some heist that made me think "Oh, hey! I haven't done THAT in a while!" Yes, rewards help with player retention. Ultimately, though, what helps by far the most is having a fun game with broad enough content that not a single piece outstays its welcome. The Jovian Concord would have been a success even if all it did was update the Jupiter tilset and add nothing new, as far as I'm concerned. Because the value of THAT is far greater than "a game mode" and "a boss fight."

As far as I'm concerned, we need to now see the same happen to a lot of other tilesets, especially for higher-level planets which just copy preexisting tilesets.