DE are confused about how they want the game to work, and DPS warframes that aren’t self buffers are taking the worst hit from this.

[(NSW)MasterDarkwingz]

At this point it would be wise for DE to consider that maybe they already have enough Warframes, and reconsider how convenience can potentially be monopolized on the Cash Shop.

If everyone wants to collect them all, and a certain percentage of players don't actually put forth any effort to loot or craft, then the activity level of your servers could decline exponentially.

There have been topics spread across the forum for years. New players struggle with Mastery Rank, Mastery Rank 6's wave 3 is glitched, so on and so forth.

Fix the bugs first and foremost, then focus on developing new content. If the same bug from a few years ago reappears, then you need a system wide inspection.

This game has been running for six years, and it somehow floats. Why? What are people actually spending money on, and can that be obtained in game for free?
If not, then do you feel as if that transaction might appear a little forced? 

Right now DE got ignored as much as Canada in Hetalia (an anime that personifies countries), no one even noticed Rebecca in E3's Press Conference because she only showed a single minute of... essentially space. 

There was nothing noteworthy, and Avengers outshone what could've been a really cool tease on the expansion. Instead, you opted to stay close to home with Tennocon updates.

Who are you, and most of all... why should we as players stick around? The way enemies flail about when they die is old, outdated, merely another old meme.

You need advancements in AI in order to keep your multitude of weapons/frames balanced.

You're spending too much time on re-balancing them, and are too hyper focused on painting one single zone for one single expansion.

You're small, you admit that constantly, but you need to buck up. Work with someone big, spread yourself out, give yourself some time to think about how technology has grown.

How can you improve the entire Warframe experience after six years of a loot and shoot? Nightwave is an event, at best. It's not a wins all, beat all.

Edited June 16, 2019 by (NSW)MasterDarkwingz

[Tiltskillet]

8 hours ago, peterc3 said:

What if the dev is evaluating that feedback and just doesn't agree with it? They incorporate the good things they find but ignore the vast majority of the flood of nonsense?

 

 

13 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

incorporate the good stuff and discard the rest

 

8 hours ago, peterc3 said:

Why are the players experts on someone else's game?

They're not. The only relevant expertise most of us  have is on our own opinions.  For instance, I'm a total expert on me thinking the Veldt Prime needs to happen right now.  😜

I'd guess nearly all of that feedback fails when it gets away further away from "what, when, and where" and starts getting into "why" and, worst of all, "how".  Lots of exceptions, of course.

[Atsia]

7 hours ago, (NSW)MasterDarkwingz said:

Fix the bugs first and foremost, then focus on developing new content. If the same bug from a few years ago reappears, then you need a system wide inspection. 

DE has already explained how they CAN'T do this. Like all F2P, they live and die on the content they put out, which includes new warframes. They can't focus on fixes or they lose money and the forums devolve into another stream of content drought threads,so they do their best to manage doing both. Most of those big fixes and changes needed aren't things that are gonna come out quick, like Melee 3.0. They need to take their time with it.

 

7 hours ago, (NSW)MasterDarkwingz said:

This game has been running for six years, and it somehow floats. Why? What are people actually spending money on, and can that be obtained in game for free?
If not, then do you feel as if that transaction might appear a little forced? 

Most of their money probably comes from general plat purchases for stuff like Rivens, etc., then Prime Access, then maybe Tennogen.

Edited June 16, 2019 by Atsia

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

If you looked at all the frames that have fallen out of favor and how their abilities function in the most recent content, that should be a major clue to DE.  Hell some of those frames are even newer ones.

I'm not saying it was bad content at all, but it excludes a lot of frames that just so happen to need a rework to bring them in line:

Banshee, Wukong, Vauban, Ember, Frost, Nekros, Nyx, Titania, Hydroid, Harrow, Baruuk, etc.  Some are not bad, but the fact that most players would (and in some cases should) pass over them for better frames with more damage and defense speaks volumes.  

My feedback?  More content based on using your brain rather than seeing who can get their nuke off first.

Edited June 16, 2019 by (XB1)Thy Divinity

[Maka.Bones]

19 minutes ago, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

If you looked at all the frames that have fallen out of favor and how their abilities function in the most recent content, that should be a major clue to DE.  Hell some of those frames are even newer ones.

I'm not saying it was bad content at all, but it excludes a lot of frames that just so happen to need a rework to bring them in line:

Banshee, Wukong, Vauban, Ember, Frost, Nekros, Nyx, Titania, Hydroid, Harrow, Baruuk, etc.  Some are not bad, but the fact that most players would (and in some cases should) pass over them for better frames with more damage and defense speaks volumes.  

My feedback?  More content based on using your brain rather than seeing who can get their nuke off first.

I gotta agree with this. 

Banshee isn't bad. She's still one of the best frames by far, but many players don't want to use her because the "nuke build"  isn't as effective anymore. Most players who think she's no longer good, just want to kill everything with minimal effort. So they ignore the rest of her kit, as if her 4th ability was the only thing that was good about banshee. 

Having more content that's based on using your brain, would give players a good reason to use all these other awesome abilities. 

Edited June 16, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

15 hours ago, Xzorn said:

I'd argue CC has gotten the worst of it.

CC frames have been under constant fire for years and without opposition they've slowly lost value even without DE actively murdering the role.

Debuff frames aren't in a great spot either with their recent immune frenzy but I imagine it's going to soon blow up in their face.

No one likes this cheese of effectively cheating their own rules. If the rules don't work rewrite the book. Every exception to a rule only turns out worse for the game as a whole. Rules like the Damage system are meant to be follow by both Enemies and Players. Consistency is key and it's something DE doesn't like following it seems. Take Revenant and Wisp 4th abilities not working on Nullifier Bubbles. Nothing in the game follows that logic. They just made an exception because they didn't like the result.

We need Damage 3.0. Enough of this cheap shortcut crap.

Basically just echoing this person here.  It feels like I actively have to find a way to break the games rules in end game/pinnicle content rather than finding new ways to do said content.  Consistency is DE's biggest issue.  And big problems like these almost never get attention because DE is too concerned about constantly putting out content for people.  I don't speak for others but personally i'd be fine with taking a whole damned year off content wise if we actually managed to change some of the core things about Warframe.

[Maka.Bones]

31 minutes ago, moostar95 said:

No, players don't want that. I think it'll be nice. but in this nuke era we're in. Players just want to instantly win and with DE's push of "bite-sized" content. The concept of having a endgame where player's thinking in general is laughable. I made a thread on this but I think players and maybe DE themselves don't want an endgame. Players hated when their nukes didn't work on the wolf and their nukes don't work on that new game mode on at all. If you offer an endgame that forces people to think. THEY'LL WHINE AND CRY the challenges away. I'm with op in the vein that the power gap between frames has going out of wrack for way too long. This game is at a point where to the players that cry out for a challenge, SOMETHING is going have to get nerfed. and we all know how awful DE is with reworking anything unless Pablo is helping. Endgame is unneeded. Frames need to be better balanced before we can talk about having one. Better games would have had all of these issues sorted out before a endgame or increase in challenge was ever brought up. But knowing DE's rocky start with warframe and how unsuspectedly successful it got. This issue of balance can be seen as a oversight. 

Woah man... i get your disgruntledness but if players didn't want that, then why is the ropalolist fight getting so much visibility and positive feedback?

Also, [DE] Steve said they're looking into making more end-game oriented content. I believe that they're starting to take this direction more, and more now. If you notice a lot of the new warframe designs & reworks, they're moving away from the "nuke" builds and taking a direction that's more dynamic and interactive. 

A lot of work & changes still need to be done, yes... but it's not as if they're not trying to move in that direction. We do need more though...

You're right about many players whining when change does happen, and many people just wanting it to be easier... they're already accustomed to something.. It'll happen till they understand whats new and they get more used to the changes--it's growth pains. There needs to be a balance maintained of "easy content" and difficult/challenging/thought provoking gameplay, as they add more challenging concepts--a growth curve.

But there definitely needs to be *more* thought provoking gameplay, that also lets us use the full capacity of our gear/warframes.  There needs to be a clear, contrasting, difficult setting or missions that are oriented around a clearcut "endgame" or something that's supposed to be an obvious challenge we're not supposed to beat. It's hard for people who are/have been spoiled, to accept change (i say that for myself too) but sometimes it's what we need. 

Edited June 16, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[Maka.Bones]

43 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

Basically just echoing this person here.  It feels like I actively have to find a way to break the games rules in end game/pinnicle content rather than finding new ways to do said content.  Consistency is DE's biggest issue.  And big problems like these almost never get attention because DE is too concerned about constantly putting out content for people.  I don't speak for others but personally i'd be fine with taking a whole damned year off content wise if we actually managed to change some of the core things about Warframe.

THISSSSSSS YES. Also, to catch up all the primed warframe releases. 

[Maka.Bones]

On 2019-06-15 at 6:33 AM, (PS4)FK2P said:

Yeah, I think they should just prioritise making all warframes have roles like they had in LOR and make their ability’s WORK, like nyc could kind control vay hek! Nova could slow anything, BUT at least you knew where you stood with all the frames and you could design teams around it quickly, I had to test each and every frame and ability VS the demolysts because of the inconsistency...

I actually love that we don't need/use roles in this game. I don't play other traditional games, because i'm fedup with that system. 

I don't want to have to wait for a healer. Or rely on poor dps/tanks, or have to fit in one specific role. I appreciate the versatility we have now; I like that everyone can pull their own weight somehow. 

Edited June 16, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[Maka.Bones]

12 hours ago, (PS4)FK2P said:

No your wrong. Embers accelerant only works VS mobs and it’s DISGRACEFULY weak. Banshee has no self buffs only CC which works against... you guessed it, mobs. I said MESA to some extent because disputes her buffs, she cannot use peacemakers where DPS really matters. You talk like you speak the truth when actually you have no idea what’s going on dude. These frames are supposed to be DPS frames, but it’s not fair how some DPS frames buff themesleves and can steamroll any content, and others are locked to only work against basic mobs. The point I am making is that if they want to make DPS, CC irrelevant, they need to decide wether to keep it or not and then make ALL abilities work in their intended roll throughout all content. Banshee needs to either paint targets on eidolons, or have a backup roll in this situation where people can take her into this content and have some use to a team. I don’t understand how trying to make DE make a final decision on ability rolls and how they want the game to function without just making the new stuff immune to entire frames kits is wrong? All I want is to be able to choose a roll and have it work. DE needs to set down its rules and apply them properly. It used to be that raids were more difficult, but ALL THE POWERS worked as intended. The squad had to think... will I take a nyx and risk not being the closest in range of Vay Hek, or will I take nova and slow him to reduce his aiming speed? Will I take trinity for energy? Will I take valkyr for revives? Will I take Loki to disarm all of the small mobs? Will I take vauban for one particular part of the raid where people have to not be knocked off of buttons and we need hard CC with good coverage, but he might not be as useful at the final stage of the raid... That’s when warframe was good IN MY OPINION. Choosing roles that functioned and planning a strategy. The raids need to be effected by abilities but they need to up the difficulty so we are forced to choose roles and use our entire kits to be successful.

You're*

Btw have you not seen her sonar ability....? She has one of the highest damage abilities in the game man. That sounds like a dps frame.

The only weakness banshee has, is that she's squishy. Otherwise, idk what banshee you're playing but it definitely doesn't sound anything like my experience with her. Whenever i do 1hr index runs, banshee, nova, and rhino are a requirement. We literally cannot kill any enemies without banshee's sonar. 

It's not even a matter of opinion dude... Fact: banshee has one of the best damage abilities of the game.  You can get up to millions of damage with her sonar. 

Also, I think you forgot that banshee can drop her 4 now... and it works pretty effectively as a CC ability.  

 

P.S. why are you so dead-set on forcing players into roles? no ty man. You can play as whatever you like, so let me play as whatever i'd like. Thanks~

Bringing back raids--or something similar--would be fun though. But even raids were a joke back then; You literally only did one thing over and over, and a raid could be run with 3 people. I hope whatever they make next, is much more challenging and fun.

Edited June 16, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[EinheriarJudith]

2 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

You're*

Also, have you not seen her sonar ability....? She has one of the highest damage abilities in the game man. That sounds like a dps frame.

The only weakness banshee has, is that she's squishy. Otherwise, idk what banshee you're playing but it definitely doesn't sound anything like my experience with her. Whenever i do 1hr index runs, banshee, nova, and rhino are a requirement. We literally cannot kill any enemies without banshee's sonar. 

It's not even a matter of opinion dude... Fact: banshee has one of the best damage abilities of the game.  You can get up to millions of damage with her sonar. 

sonar is a debuff. frames that self buff are: rhino (roar) chroma (vex armor) mirage (eclipse) octavia (metronome), garuda (passive), Ash (passive), harrow (covenant). as far as i know.

also sonar does not deal damage.

[Maka.Bones]

2 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

sonar is a debuff. frames that self buff are: rhino (roar) chroma (vex armor) mirage (eclipse) octavia (metronome), garuda (passive), Ash (passive), harrow (covenant). as far as i know.

also sonar does not deal damage.

It buffs your eyes, so you're able to see enemy weakpoints. It increases your damage, more than any other ability... and why does it need to deal damage, when your gun can already do that? So what if her ability doesn't need damage; you already oneshot everything with sonar. 

Oh my bad, it's not a nuke... true. It's more fun like that though, even if it costs a little more effort. 

Edited June 16, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[EinheriarJudith]

1 minute ago, Maka.Bones said:

It increases your damage, more than any other ability... and why does it need to deal damage, when your gun can already do that? So what if her ability doesn't need damage; you already oneshot everything with sonar. 

Oh my bad, it's not a nuke... true. It's more fun like that though, even if it costs a little more effort. 

i dont disagree, but the other poster is talking about self buffers not debuffers like ember, banshee, nova, and the like.

[Maka.Bones]

5 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

i dont disagree, but the other poster is talking about self buffers not debuffers like ember, banshee, nova, and the like.

Ok, fair point.

[EinheriarJudith]

10 minutes ago, moostar95 said:

~snip~

one of the reasons i still play mass effect andromeda MP, killing floor 2, and considering redownloadng vermintide 2.

Edited June 16, 2019 by EinheriarJudith

[Maka.Bones]

2 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

one of the reasons i still play mass effect andromeda MP, killing floor 2, and considering redownloadng vermintide 2.

I'll have to check out vermintide 2

[EinheriarJudith]

1 minute ago, Maka.Bones said:

I'll have to check out vermintide 2

one of the things most important in vermintide 2 is teamwork. the hordes are massive.

[Pixues]

I just want to say this is a great topic and thread.

This right here, this is what DE needs to focus on. The old stuff, the core of the game. 
Where most games feel like a thought out dish, Warframe feels like a pot with random ingredients being thrown in. 
In of the patch notes, DE Rebecca mentioned they have been 'just kicking the can'. They seem to be aware. 

I'm just waiting for that day they release Dev Workshop where they state that they are going to turn Warframe into a dish. Not melee 3.0, not parkour 3.0, not damage 3.0. I want to see Warframe 3.0.

There is no consistency and they are experimenting on the fly. New bullet jump and air glide mods? Like that is suddenly going to make people actively play an air styled Warframe. Those are going to help alot when we play in tunnels most of the time, or against the level 80 grineer. There are more useful things to fill you slots with.
Maybe they are useful in the new jupiter map, made for parkour? Its not like i can use *spoiler* mode and dash through all of that space. Everything is trivialised by something in the game. Because this game is based on random ingredients. Please tune content in context of content. 

Damage Warframes trivialise mobs.
Stealth Warframes trivialise spy missions. 
Nothing should be trivialised, some challenge should remain.

Its only getting harder and harder with all the new ingredients they keep throwing in the pot. 

Edited June 17, 2019 by Pixues

[TheInternetGuy]

DE should really take a break from making new warframes. If they want to release new content then they already have some qued up. New warframes are at the core of this game. I'm starting to feel that they're releasing them willy nilly without regard for its effects on the game. Some warframes need some work and keeping track of around 40 frames is tricky as it is already.

[ZeroBladeTV]

I concur. The "new" content they add is inconsequential, the longest one up to date was the Jupiter remaster and it took a few hours to get everything you need from it.

Now, the Plague Star 'event', which took less than 2 hours to get the zaws. (Not farming like crazy for useless arcanes of formas).

I don't care about cosmetics, so fashion frame is a dead end for me and I ain't spending my time farming for useless stuff. I got a lot of people gawking over the smoking body epherma when they got it and it actually looks like crap. At least make the smoke look good.

I love new content for a game I love, but I would much more prefer for the game to actually exit it's endless beta and become a real, finished, polished game. Fix all the god damn bugs. Fix that damn netcode and host migrations. I don't want to get a new frame if it's gonna fail 4 out of 5 times due to bugs. Stop releasing unfinished boss fights and taking 2 weeks to actually fix it (almost). Treat your players as you would like to be treated.

[(PSN)FK2P]

11 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:

You're*

Btw have you not seen her sonar ability....? She has one of the highest damage abilities in the game man. That sounds like a dps frame.

The only weakness banshee has, is that she's squishy. Otherwise, idk what banshee you're playing but it definitely doesn't sound anything like my experience with her. Whenever i do 1hr index runs, banshee, nova, and rhino are a requirement. We literally cannot kill any enemies without banshee's sonar. 

It's not even a matter of opinion dude... Fact: banshee has one of the best damage abilities of the game.  You can get up to millions of damage with her sonar. 

Also, I think you forgot that banshee can drop her 4 now... and it works pretty effectively as a CC ability.  

 

P.S. why are you so dead-set on forcing players into roles? no ty man. You can play as whatever you like, so let me play as whatever i'd like. Thanks~

Bringing back raids--or something similar--would be fun though. But even raids were a joke back then; You literally only did one thing over and over, and a raid could be run with 3 people. I hope whatever they make next, is much more challenging and fun.

Yeah banshee is great, but only against MOBS, that’s my point. Mobs can be killed by many things without banshee, the content in the future is looking to completely ignore debuffs, so where is banshee going to fit into that? She has 2 soft CC ability’s and another debug which won’t likely work unless against mobs.

Why would I play banshee in new content, when I could play as rhino, and my DPS boost will work against ANYTHING in front of me guarenteed, while also having CC and the tanking. Banshee is meant to be risky, but it’s only worth risking if you have the damage that she’s promised.

[Maka.Bones]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)FK2P said:

Yeah banshee is great, but only against MOBS, that’s my point. Mobs can be killed by many things without banshee, the content in the future is looking to completely ignore debuffs, so where is banshee going to fit into that? She has 2 soft CC ability’s and another debug which won’t likely work unless against mobs.

Why would I play banshee in new content, when I could play as rhino, and my DPS boost will work against ANYTHING in front of me guarenteed, while also having CC and the tanking. Banshee is meant to be risky, but it’s only worth risking if you have the damage that she’s promised.

I'm sorry, but I don't follow.... 

1) What else is there besides mobs? You mean eidolons?

2) How do her CC's not work against mobs? (and why are you mentioning them, if you're saying that future content isn't just mobs?)

[Teridax68]

To some extent, this reminds me of League of Legends, the MOBA: in that game, one of the core objectives for each team is to destroy the enemy team's structures, right down to their base. Trouble is, those structures are immune to all abilities, so most characters can't nuke them... but the characters with steroids can do so no problem, because they can pump themselves full of damage, effectively forcing a rigid metagame centered around these steroid-based, attack-based characters.

In this respect, DE should have known better than to address the game's balance and design issues via immunities on enemies: while the intent may have been different from that of League's designers, the end result is the same. The intent may have been to want to prevent nuke and CC frames from becoming too dominant, but when the balance work is done purely by changing enemies, and so via binary immunities, the obvious consequence is that frames whose power comes from buffing themselves end up unaffected.

Additionally, I also feel that the current course of balance should be a pretty plain demonstration of why refusing to accept any nerfs to frames is ultimately bad for those frames: don't want DE to touch your easymode Slash AoE Equinox? That's cool, hope you like enemy status immunity. Don't want your Cata+Stasis Limbo defense strat to suffer any direct nerfs? Sure thing, hope you're ready for Nullifiers and Rift-immune enemies to ignore or literally burst your bubble at a moment's notice. Enemy immunities are terrible for gameplay and consistency, and outright exclude many nuke and CC frames from a lot of high-level content, but at the end of the day, there needs to be some sort of counterbalance to frames that can kill or disable enemies without any real interaction: the current answer clearly doesn't work, as it's far too harsh, but something's gotta give, and if it's not the frames, it's going to have to be through annoying enemies.

[Mu_Gera]

On 2019-06-15 at 9:23 AM, (PS4)FK2P said:

DPS roll warframes like banshee, ember, Mesa to SOME extent, saryn, equinox were great damage warframes back in the day, but now as more content requires more damage to be done against large non-mob threats, most of these frames don’t work at all, and what’s worse, most of these frames have no counter abilitys because when they were designed, damage was their strength, and their kit was designed as glass cannons

I mean mesa, saryn, and equinox can still reliably dps at higher levels with mesa and, to some extant, saryn being actually decent tanks.

[(NSW)MasterDarkwingz]

On 2019-06-16 at 9:59 AM, Atsia said:

DE has already explained how they CAN'T do this. Like all F2P, they live and die on the content they put out, which includes new warframes. They can't focus on fixes or they lose money and the forums devolve into another stream of content drought threads,so they do their best to manage doing both. Most of those big fixes and changes needed aren't things that are gonna come out quick, like Melee 3.0. They need to take their time with it.

 

Most of their money probably comes from general plat purchases for stuff like Rivens, etc., then Prime Access, then maybe Tennogen.

Like I said, work with someone big, spread yourself out.

How can you be quite certain where Platinum sales are, if the Cash Shop shows everything for Platinum by default?

It could be quite literally everything selling due to consumer confusion. (Too many options.)