The Duviri Paradox

KelsierSurvivor · July 9, 2019

12 hours ago, Lost_Cartographer said:

I don't think it's that our operator's will grow up so much as that it's because of transference that they lost their original bodies.

Think about it - the Zariman 10-0 was a military vessel, not a civilian transport. The Tenno were running from adults that lost their minds while stuck aboard a vessel that had no business carrying children in the first place. What. Does. Umbra. Do. When we transfer out of him? Before we calmed him? What did proto-Rhino do without a Tenno transferring into him in his codex? What are the last few lines in Ember's codex?

The Tenno bring a calm to the storm, so to speak.

DE's game design may always be shaky in its execution, but their over arching story writing is stellar.

HOLY... I never noticed that... oh /gosh/... And I thought I was a lore nerd... X,'D

(PSN)Silverback73 · July 9, 2019

22 hours ago, DLDeath said:

Funny I'm in the same boat. I feel our tennos are ageless due to exposure in the void and who knows how much more while we were in the pods asleep. Since the moon was in the void too. Could be our body is like Vor's which is made of energy and truly can't die.

Warframe at it’s best has always been “Strength and enjoyment by Choice”.

The prudent offering would be both with sliders that adapted to the character rig as it changed.

DrakeWurrum · July 10, 2019

Naw. The Void follows it's own rules of space and time, so things are really crazy in there.

DrakeWurrum · July 10, 2019

15 hours ago, Lost_Cartographer said:

I don't think it's that our operator's will grow up so much as that it's because of transference that they lost their original bodies.

Think about it - the Zariman 10-0 was a military vessel, not a civilian transport. The Tenno were running from adults that lost their minds while stuck aboard a vessel that had no business carrying children in the first place. What. Does. Umbra. Do. When we transfer out of him? Before we calmed him? What did proto-Rhino do without a Tenno transferring into him in his codex? What are the last few lines in Ember's codex?

The Tenno bring a calm to the storm, so to speak.

DE's game design may always be shaky in its execution, but their over arching story writing is stellar.

Mmm... I'm still not sure that our bodies and minds were split.

That DOES sound a lot like the constant theme of duality that runs through the entire game's lore, mind you. So it wouldn't surprise me.

But this would suggest that our minds are being represented by children, which isn't logical to me. It also wouldn't make sense that we would lose all memory of this, and be so completely confused as to refer to these adults as our parents within our own memories. Why would the MIND half of our split have such messed up memories, when the body clearly lacks it as well?

I'm still thinking that, simply, the chaotic energies of the Void that infused our bodies transformed us as a result of how time works in this unique dimension. Alternatively, it could be that the adults of the ship were lost within the Void for so long... and were able to somehow carve out a life in that weird place, eventually having children that were BORN in the Void. Resulting in our unique properties.

The fact that we can see the Zariman Ten Zero in the trailer, off in the distance, is the biggest clue of all. We know that ship came back out of the Void. But in this open world area, we see it there... as though a crashed ship. This whole thing will involve twisted timelines.

Edited July 10, 2019 by DrakeWurrum

Lost_Cartographer · July 10, 2019

15 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Mmm... I'm still not sure that our bodies and minds were split.

That DOES sound a lot like the constant theme of duality that runs through the entire game's lore, mind you. So it wouldn't surprise me.

But this would suggest that our minds are being represented by children, which isn't logical to me. It also wouldn't make sense that we would lose all memory of this, and be so completely confused as to refer to these adults as our parents within our own memories. Why would the MIND half of our split have such messed up memories, when the body clearly lacks it as well?

I'm still thinking that, simply, the chaotic energies of the Void that infused our bodies transformed us as a result of how time works in this unique dimension. Alternatively, it could be that the adults of the ship were lost within the Void for so long... and were able to somehow carve out a life in that weird place, eventually having children that were BORN in the Void. Resulting in our unique properties.

The fact that we can see the Zariman Ten Zero in the trailer, off in the distance, is the biggest clue of all. We know that ship came back out of the Void. But in this open world area, we see it there... as though a crashed ship. This whole thing will involve twisted timelines.

You're assuming all mentions of parentage in Rell's quest happened aboard the Zariman - a military vessel that wouldn't have children "because it would violate procedure."

Notably, a specific time period is never mentioned. To clarify - Rell's memories could have been made decades before the Zarimen set out on its fateful voyage into the Void. They could have been made after the incident, and he clinged to a mother figure assigned to him to deal with his special needs. Or perhaps, being fabricated, their memories could be false to heighten the emotions of teen aged people, which the Man-in-the-Wall may very well feed on. We honestly don't know what he wants, but he certainly isn't performing charity, and I think that whole light-and-dark dial will have some impact regarding him in the future.

Edited July 10, 2019 by Lost_Cartographer

DrakeWurrum · July 10, 2019

10 minutes ago, Lost_Cartographer said:

You're assuming all mentions of parentage in Rell's quest happened aboard the Zariman - a military vessel that wouldn't have children "because it would violate procedure."

Notably, a specific time period is never mentioned. To clarify - Rell's memories could have been made decades before the Zarimen set out on its fateful voyage into the Void. They could have been made after the incident, and he clinged to a mother figure assigned to him to deal with his special needs. Or perhaps, being fabricated, their memories could be false to heighten the emotions of teen aged people, which the Man-in-the-Wall may very well feed on. We honestly don't know what he wants, but he certainly isn't performing charity, and I think that whole light-and-dark dial will have some impact regarding him in the future.

When I say that the Void energies transformed us, I mean that we WERE adults... and then the Void transformed our physical forms into that of children. That this could be part of why the Orokin see us as abominations.

Possibility: Only some of the Zariman crew were transformed. Those who were not reacted the same way the Orokin did... by seeing as us devils. Monstrous and ugly. Perhaps they weren't feral... simply prejudiced, because of the Orokin ideology. Perhaps Rell's "mama" has some other relation to him, but acting as his "mama" seemed easiest. Then the Void powers manifested...

More likely though: Our memories of what happened in the Void have been just as twisted as everything else about us. I've been watching the latest season of Agents of SHIELD, and one of the characters (Robin) is able to see through time, but it's all jumbled up and our of order, and she isn't always present in her current time. I imagine making sense of events in the Void must be very taxing on the human mind, for a similar reason.

For all we know, what happened is that we go "back" to what happened, but in adult bodies. And we, ourselves, are what we remember as being our parents. That being said, I don't see us hunting down our own Void-powered Tenno selves from the past, so... not likely? Unless we're merely not remembering correctly.

Edited July 10, 2019 by DrakeWurrum

(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx · July 10, 2019

35 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

When I say that the Void energies transformed us, I mean that we WERE adults... and then the Void transformed our physical forms into that of children. That this could be part of why the Orokin see us as abominations.

Possibility: Only some of the Zariman crew were transformed. Those who were not reacted the same way the Orokin did... by seeing as us devils. Monstrous and ugly. Perhaps they weren't feral... simply prejudiced, because of the Orokin ideology. Perhaps Rell's "mama" has some other relation to him, but acting as his "mama" seemed easiest. Then the Void powers manifested...

More likely though: Our memories of what happened in the Void have been just as twisted as everything else about us. I've been watching the latest season of Agents of SHIELD, and one of the characters (Robin) is able to see through time, but it's all jumbled up and our of order, and she isn't always present in her current time. I imagine making sense of events in the Void must be very taxing on the human mind, for a similar reason.

For all we know, what happened is that we go "back" to what happened, but in adult bodies. And we, ourselves, are what we remember as being our parents. That being said, I don't see us hunting down our own Void-powered Tenno selves from the past, so... not likely? Unless we're merely not remembering correctly.

I actually like your narative that the tenno were adults who a biproduct of the void corruption changed them into this... But I doubt it's what happened...

Anyway I stand by my position that I will tolerate anything they do as long as they don't force me to play an adult character because it breaks the internal narrative I have about my character...and wastes a lot of expensive cosmetics. Either way I am solidly of the position that Tenno were around for a long time, some of which probably even sense the collapse. The fact that one grew old and died does not for me mean that it's a natural process.... Something may have been leaching off his powers all that time... Or. Perhaps tenno do age... It's just extremely slowly, and the character was much older than we think.

(PSN)AyinDygra · July 10, 2019

My first thought in that video: 'Ok, we've been transferenced into an adult...'
Moments later: 'Ok, that's us, in an adult body trying and failing to use our void blast.'
Oh hey, look, the Zariman 10-0. We're in the past... in an adult body without void powers.
The lore says children weren't supposed to be on the Zariman. Maybe there weren't any children on the Zariman... some adults turned into children, and others went mad. If we were stuck in our older (younger) selves, it would certainly be before we obtained our void powers. Perhaps attaining our void powers was the only thing that kept us alive in the void, while the adults went mad... so we turn ourselves into the Tenno to save ourselves. (and thus, we owe us for saving us... and giving us our powers... yeah, a little convoluted, but makes sense to me.)

This led me to thinking also, since we were wearing that mask... that we're the guy sitting on that throne.

The only nagging thing that kept me from solidly going with this, is the whole Rell comic where Rell considered the other colonist to be his mother... hey, maybe she was just really old when they hit this void sandbar, and got aged down to her thirties, while her adult son became a teenager. The Orokin seem to have long lives, so I wouldn't put it past them.

Alternatively, the Tenno were totally born in the void. Colony ships are generally made up of couples to reproduce and continue the colony. Who knows how long they were stuck in the void? Having children was a natural thing. Being born in the void could be the whole reason they have their void powers. It's possible the "Man in the wall" entity (if not entirely our alter-ego, and is an entity taking on our form) took an interest in the children, and drove the parents mad (kidnapper). This doesn't explain the whole grown up operators thing, unless we went forward in time, to a point after we defeat the "man in the wall" and no longer have the powers he gave us. We might have to become the new "man in the wall" for ourselves somehow, in the future-past that we saw in that video...

How this all ties in with the Planes (yes, not Plains) of Duviri and the "Duviri Paradox" title, is a little harder to piece together, since we know so little about these Duviri. The Fortuna residents seem to know something about them, having built pleasure lakes and stuff, being super rich, beyond the corpus barons. They could be Orokin elite who survived the collapse, for all we know. Their Planes... could be pocket dimensions in the void, little pleasure planets or just estates where they live... places like this could be where Ballas hid out for a few centuries, under the radar.

I have no idea, currently, how they fit in here... although, we can surmise that the Duviri (people who own moons perhaps) were ones who attempted to talk to the Unum, but were turned away, choosing to only talk to the Quills. (cited in some lore codex entries... I think the thousand year fish thing)

DrakeWurrum · July 11, 2019

22 hours ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

The only nagging thing that kept me from solidly going with this, is the whole Rell comic where Rell considered the other colonist to be his mother... hey, maybe she was just really old when they hit this void sandbar, and got aged down to her thirties, while her adult son became a teenager. The Orokin seem to have long lives, so I wouldn't put it past them

That's my snag as well. It's entirely possible that Rell's "mama" isn't actually his mother, though. It's possible that, though we remember our parents being on the ship, those we are referring to were not actually our parents. Either the Void messed with our memories, or else it's the case that not all crew were changed into children... and the adults ended up looking after the children as parental figures. Until the Void powers manifested.

22 hours ago, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said:

I actually like your narative that the tenno were adults who a biproduct of the void corruption changed them into this... But I doubt it's what happened...

I'm mostly trying to figure what the meaning behind the Ember Prime Codex entry could be. Either we were formerly adults, the Orokin were covering up the truth, or else... We were born in the Void while the ZTZ was lost. I think the first one is a more interesting story, tbh, but it also does work well with what we saw in the Duviri Paradox teaser.

Edited July 11, 2019 by DrakeWurrum

Morrow · July 11, 2019

1 hour ago, DrakeWurrum said:

I'm mostly trying to figure what the meaning behind the Ember Prime Codex entry could be. Either we were formerly adults, the Orokin were covering up the truth, or else... We were born in the Void while the ZTZ was lost. I think the first one is a more interesting story, tbh, but it also does work well with what we saw in the Duviri Paradox teaser.

The Tenno are the children of the Zariman Ten Zero, if they were adults they too would have succumbed to the same void madness that drove their parents to become infanticidal maniacs. The Ember codex details an Orokin investigator who broke procedure and tired to comfort one of the Tenno, who in turn severely burned her using their void powers, likely due to a very understandable fear of adults. The "We didn't. That would violate procedure," line was very likely an insinuation that, officially, none of this ever happened.

Edited July 11, 2019 by Morrow
Forgot a word

Waterbeacon · July 11, 2019

If I had to guess, the duviri is the "other side of the wall" an alternate dimension mentioned by the Lotus where versions of things that enter the void go. The zaraman as well as the fact that the adult versions of the Tenno where technically taken from them by the void. That's why we see void energy, everything is etherial and we have orokin creations form when they tried to enter the void. It also makes sense because in the Railjack void jump we see the snake and later on get ripped into duviri

Edited July 11, 2019 by Waterbeacon

DrakeWurrum · July 11, 2019

7 hours ago, Morrow said:

The Tenno are the children of the Zariman Ten Zero, if they were adults they too would have succumbed to the same void madness that drove their parents to become infanticidal maniacs. The Ember codex details an Orokin investigator who broke procedure and tired to comfort one of the Tenno, who in turn severely burned her using their void powers, likely due to a very understandable fear of adults. The "We didn't. That would violate procedure," line was very likely an insinuation that, officially, none of this ever happened.

That is how I'd always interpreted it. However, I'm suggesting that what we are seeing in the Duviri Paradox teaser suggests that, maybe... it wasn't a cover-up. It's entirely possible that was the truth.

Autongnosis · July 11, 2019

No idea if anybody noticed, but during the fold in the Empyrean demo at some point a serpentine construct appears outside the "safe channel". That construct is exactly the same as the one portrayed at the start of the duviri paradox trailer.

What's interesting is that they look very Orokin in design, as if the Orokin had jot just void towers but also populated the void itself with drones or something?

Then again it begs the question if the void allows for time paradoxes and justaxposition, like the zariman carcass suggests (since that technically hapoened before the tenno existed and we see a tenno appearing for a brief moment), and the orokin had in some way "colonised" the void, why would they let themselves be destroyed by the tenno?

Vlada91 · July 11, 2019

5 hours ago, Waterbeacon said:

If I had to guess, the duviri is the "other side of the wall" an alternate dimension mentioned by the Lotus where versions of things that enter the void go. The zaraman as well as the fact that the adult versions of the Tenno where technically taken from them by the void. That's why we see void energy, everything is etherial and we have orokin creations form when they tried to enter the void. It also makes sense because in the Railjack void jump we see the snake and later on get ripped into duviri

But if that snake is from other alternative dimensions but we seen him in our dimensions,then it is possible that we are just stuck get old we think that we got powers in their but we don't in that dimensions...And then when we kill that big snake boss maybe we can come back but we stay old because we are become older in time, and we cant go mature only in that dimensions. So in the end different dimensions its just let us get old only because we lost power....

(PSN)AyinDygra · July 11, 2019

On the practical side of things, people have invested too much money and time into creating and buying Operator Cosmetics to make this expansion age our operators to adults full time for the rest of the game.

"Grown-uperator" (as someone else coined), is likely either only for the story sequence like our limping selves during the War Within, or a form we take on the Planes of Duviri only. It is also possible that the Planes of Duviri are a "star chart encompassing" element that exists as an alternate world, like Link traveling between the light and dark worlds or his version of time travel in Ocarina of Time. This means, on missions, we could transition to the planes of Duviri that occupies the same location as the mission node we're playing, and access our adult form at that time only. So, it may not be a new open world.

Just throwing that out there, so people have expectations grounded a bit.

Morrow · July 11, 2019

3 hours ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

On the practical side of things, people have invested too much money and time into creating and buying Operator Cosmetics to make this expansion age our operators to adults full time for the rest of the game.

What if they made adult (not that kind of adult) versions of the operator cosmetics, and just gave freebies of all the ones you already had child versions of?

(PSN)Silverback73 · July 11, 2019

On 2019-07-07 at 1:55 PM, iLightning13 said:

It's probably just a different reality. Cephalon Cy says "tears across five dimensions". If they were implying it is time travel, it would say four (x, y, z, time) but as it's five it's probably something else. Remember that Quill Onnko has already confirmed the existence of multiple worlds in the Warframe universe.

Also, the Dax-bot looks completely different from current Orokin creations. They make fancily decorated, very solid things. Compared to that, the Dax even more ornate than the Orokin designs. That makes me think that the Orokin are still alive in this reality, meaning the Tenno didn't kill them.

Finally, our alternate reality Tenno wears a 'Duviri' mask that's in all the marketing. The Dax-bot is hostile to him. That makes me think that a portion of the Tenno still want to dismantle the Orokin Empire, and are fighting back under the name Duviri while the ones who still serve the Orokin call themselves Tenno.

That's just my interpretation. I would be surprised if they decided to do time travel, as we already know a lot of the events of the Old War. If they switched to a different reality, there would be loads of ways they could go with it and it would be less predictable from a story standpoint.

It may be a mixture of both as well. The alternate reality idea doesn't account for the word 'Paradox' in the title. Perhaps there's a time traveller who interferes, causing the Tenno to stay their hand against the Orokin so the Collapse doesn't happen. Maybe even Wally, as he hasn't had a huge effect on the plot as of yet.

You are onto something. Beyond the Red Dead Redemption Vibe and your Operator the theme is entirely Inorganic, often lacking in color.

Perhaps being Organic is what makes you susceptible here.

It very much has that “Wizard of Oz” vibe for me, almost as if some malicious intelligence is hiding behind a false presentation being created all around you.

That Dax ISN’T a Dax.

LOOK CLOSELY AT THE INORGANIC INSECTOID-LIKE FACE STARING AT YOU before it raises it’s helmet to charge.

Your face mask is a false presentation of Ballas-like Orokin perfection.

That Orokin transport seems headed in the direction of the Zariman Ten-Zero.

Is the ship’s AI alive and controlling reality here? Enslaving everything like a Neural Sentry?

We shall see.

Edited July 11, 2019 by (PS4)Silverback73

evilChair · July 11, 2019

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/554729021448126484/598935589441765377/unknown.png

charger claw marks on the suit?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/554729021448126484/598935245429014534/unknown.png

on a more interesting note, we can see that the tigris that we mailed to ourselves from the past and pull out of the hole (a visual pun on "ace in the hole"?) is fossilised, and stays such when the Grownup Operator is on horseback.

evilChair · July 11, 2019

On 2019-07-10 at 4:05 AM, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

Alternatively, the Tenno were totally born in the void. Colony ships are generally made up of couples to reproduce and continue the colony. Who knows how long they were stuck in the void? Having children was a natural thing. Being born in the void could be the whole reason they have their void powers. It's possible the "Man in the wall" entity (if not entirely our alter-ego, and is an entity taking on our form) took an interest in the children, and drove the parents mad (kidnapper). This doesn't explain the whole grown up operators thing, unless we went forward in time, to a point after we defeat the "man in the wall" and no longer have the powers he gave us. We might have to become the new "man in the wall" for ourselves somehow, in the future-past that we saw in that video...

You want me to confirm this?

Exhibit A: Historical practice in the West has been to exile convicts into colonies. Australia as a colony was formed that way. It might be that the Zariman population was also mostly made up of convicted adults sent to Tau in a similar programme, and that the Zariman itself was what is known as a "generation ship".

Exhibit B: The Mara Detron, used by Orokin-era space outlaws, sold by Baro Ki'teer.

Exhibit C :

Taken together, one could infer the following:

It just might so happen that "Mara" is the owner's last name engraved on that Detron, and not the series/make/model name. If that's the case, then the capital-O Operator is very, very likely the child of a convicted space pirate with the last name of Mara. Oh, and Baro stumbled upon your mom's/dad's old gun in the Void and sold you back your heirloom.

Edited July 11, 2019 by evilChair

Ammisro · July 11, 2019

I bet my tinfoil hat that since there was supposed to be no children on Zariman, Tenno were actually adult initially. Their adult body got stuck in the void while something... created a child representation that ended up being operators in the normal world, they are 'void demons'. Perhaps The Man In Wall is actually our real self trying to call us back and break us free, perhaps integrating and becoming what we really are again, perhaps all our Tenno's life is a lie. Demonstrated by Lotus turned into a villain.

(XBOX)Kavriel · July 15, 2019

On 2019-07-09 at 4:27 AM, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said:

Were all of the tenno just that one warframe being woken by vor? No that was you. So who are the rest of them? What are there stories? Who built the tenno relays? Why are there absolutely no adult tenno? Were all tenno woken when the stalker made a deal with the Sentiments? Did each and every one of them have the same experience of fighting him on the Orbiter as Ordis watched helplessly? There are many tenno out there. Common sense tells you that life is taking all of them down different paths and journeys. The one you've seen is just ours. There is too much that doesn't make sense if we are just mortals with odd powers.

This might be completely absurd, but what if they were all the same Tenno? I know being an MMO type game means they technically are but the story assumes differently, but the way Onko talks about multiple timelines and with the plot of the Duviri Paradox still up in the air, what if all of the Tenno were really just one person, and the Zarimon incident fractured them into every possible version of themselves? That's why when they came back from the void they were still able to channel it, because it was still surrounding them and every version of themselves.

That would explain several inconsistencies in the storyline, and explain why every Tenno experiences the same major plot points in the story, because they're all the same person. When the Lotus put them into the Dream, they all slept, because they were all the same - and when Vor awoke one, they all awoke.

So when you play with other Tenno, you're playing with other versions of yourself who have experienced the same fixed points in time (the cinematic quests) but have taken very different paths there, and the Duviri Paradox explains this as you venture into the wreckage of the Zarimon and uncover the truth as you converge on your joint future.

(NSW)UltPumpkinPie · July 18, 2019

So uh it's been awhile since I made this thread and last Monday I was going to do a wrap up on this thread and keep going with it but I noticed that I made this post on the wrong account because it generated a second account when i migrated to the Nintendo switch even though I opted for a single forum account. I made a support ticket but so far no one has gotten back with me on it yet.

I might just made a separate post with my new "theory" on my actual account. Because since originally making this thread (which was at 4am est after tennocon) I've spent a lot more time thinking about this and reading up on lore and other people's ideas and theories and I have come up with something kind of completely different but along the same idea of "things are not quite as they seem" but it's a bit more malleable and fits in this new faction and trailer and even the old/new war a bit more.

I do wanna to go back and watch some devstreams that I haven't seen before I do that. I'll try and see if I can get the post up by tomorrow just in case there ends up being a devstream (I don't think there will be but I need to be able to tell people I told you so just in case.)

Just figured I'd give anyone following this one a heads up

DrakeWurrum · July 18, 2019

On 2019-07-07 at 12:55 PM, iLightning13 said:

It's probably just a different reality. Cephalon Cy says "tears across five dimensions". If they were implying it is time travel, it would say four (x, y, z, time) but as it's five it's probably something else.

While the 4th dimension is time, the 5th dimension is alternate timelines/alternate realities that are all based on the minute changes and differences that could have occurred (probability, free will, etc).

According to theoretical physicists, every dimension must be perpendicular to all previous dimensions.

So you're not entirely wrong.

My personal belief is that this adult self we control will be an adult version of ourselves that never gained powers, and that our goal will be to help our past selves within the Void to gain those powers. This may even be how we originally got those powers and finally left the Void. Hence... paradox. (I also believe that we were originally adults when we entered the Void, so things may get REALLY weird - but that's just because of the Ember Prime Codex entry)

On 2019-07-11 at 12:49 PM, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

That Dax ISN’T a Dax.

LOOK CLOSELY AT THE INORGANIC INSECTOID-LIKE FACE STARING AT YOU before it raises it’s helmet to charge.

Actually... it's design reminds me of Ayatan sculptures, especially that "devouring maw" from The War Within. Not to mention that leviathan that we saw at the beginning of the tease.

Edited July 19, 2019 by DrakeWurrum

SilentMobius · July 19, 2019

On 2019-07-07 at 4:25 AM, (NSW)UltPumpkinPie said:

But what I think really happens to the Tenno themselves is this: Zariman gets lost in the void, comes back, Margulis puts the Tenno into the second dream. These same Tenno wake up in present time with no memories of what happened between the two parts of the timeline because It. Hasn't. Happened. To. Them. Yet.

I don't think so at all.

Firstly DE aren't doing "The Old War" anytime soon, if ever, It's too much work in map-building, Too many new assets,. The planes of Duviri look like a distinct place with specific effects, not a portal to different times, The design aesthetics there are specific, Orokin, but salvaged, scavenged, stripped down (Possibly because they are trapped or exiled and resources are scarce).

Compare the Orokin Era weapon the Griner use in the NPE trailer vs the Duviri version from the art panel

Next we have the fact that the intent behind the game start has aways been quite clear, here is game-file text Circa U8

Quote

After centuries of sleep you are
awake. Your Warframe armor is
weak. Your skills all but forgotten.
A Grineer General, Vor, stands over
you...
"You are mine, Tenno!"

Quote

Directive
Do you hear that my Tenno? The
silence of tyrants who fell by your
blade? Your sacrifice is complete

and you should rest. The cryo-
chamber will wipe away the

unpleasantness of what has passed.
When you are called to wake, it
must be because the system is once
again out of balance. Perform your
duties then, as you have now.
Until we meet again

Lotus

At the most we might see/participate in bobbles of the past within the planes, like the past bubbles in the Lua spy missions and some terporal games with characters in the Planes (Interacting with both young and old version of the same person)

But not literal out-of-the-void time travel.

Edited July 19, 2019 by SilentMobius

(PSN)xxav1xl6ivax · September 3, 2019

On 2019-07-06 at 9:03 PM, BGamer18 said:

Do you think that the skeleton horse like thing is an orokin creation or something else unknown? The guy riding on it kind of resembled a Dax is why I am asking.

The resemblance to a Dax is intentional. That it is NOT a Dax is overwhelmingly apparent.

On 2019-07-07 at 4:37 PM, LupoDWolf said:

I think this is a form of referencing the loose canon with all players being the main character so far

Onkko does (very tellingly) directly reference the “multiverse.” The direct implication OF that is, that the ORIGIN SYSTEM is a SIMULATION.

Indirect implication abounds. Simaris building his Sanctuary as a eternally running “ancestor simulation.”

The descriptions of Ordis’ Phantom Memory are visualizing the contrast between a “low fidelity” simulation, and a virtual “sim” layer which oversees it, as a sort of “cyberspace” used by The Orokin. (A theoretically stable means of breeding an autonomously capable, self aware “AI” within a interdependent System.

The intention has remained (ever since the “old idea” was resurrected, but reimagined as more of an MMO), that the players should assume the role of ... themselves.

RPG indoctrination dies hard. It was a real ***** trying to get the idea across that the player is not playing a RPG type character. That there were no people in the Warframes.

Probably a big part of that derived from the Third Person POV. (If I’, supposed to be my own self, how can I be seeing me, as all these different [characters] Warframes?)

The Japanese market had no problem integrating the concept. (Heck, it’s like getting to do lucid “third person dreaming,” how cool is that!)

The Chinese market could not cope.

The benefit to having been forced to totally bend Dark Sector into something else, was getting to keep all the cool, unused stuff that made up a whole feel and style. The “worlds” are not at all directly related. The content and assets, however, are very much so.

It hardly took much to recognize the influences on a huge number of things in the Dark Sector Trailer (so long as you had experience of things that were’t just other video games ; )

What was framed, in the DS Trailer as being a Solar Rail, was an all too familiar form (to anyone who ever read The Metabarons ; ).

Much too large to be reused (until now, apparently) in Warframe. But the allusion was made to (a modified version of) it having been the Zariman (via the Vitruvian schematic in The Sacrifice). We still have not gotten a good look at any solar rail Stations in Warframe (The Solar Rail Towers, Orokin Junctions, and Tenno Relays all serve as our own means of access to the rails).

So the notion of The Zariman being part Ship and Part Solar Rail (to be activated from Tau) is hardly an unreasonable guess at a possibility.

There are numerous inferences made, and beliefs hinted at, that the Tenno are not from the Origin System.

In all practicality, we as players know this. We are here. We are in our solar system. We are ourselves. The image we get to create for ourselves “in game” is that of proxies, which “Exist on the fold between two worlds. (The Void & The Origin System, basically).

What was discovered along with the Zariman, which had been adrift for months (according to The Lotus) before it was found, was nothing like the crew that had been sent out. Ballas took them for Devils, while Margulis, peculiarly, tried to impress upon him that maybe the [Tenno] had been sent to save them. Sent? From where? By whom?

What, like sent from the “real” world, into the “sim” of the Origin System, to extract Margulis who had become trapped within it?

(OK, that’s just a wild fantasy type scenario, but aimed toward making a point, that the certainty of who and what the Tenno, The Origin System, and everything in and about it are actually supposed to be, is anything but certain, while all too easily alluding to being a simulation or “counterfeit world”).

The ease of seamlessly accessing simulacrum, datascapes, Sanctuary, and ... well, pretty much any environment.

The miniaturization in scale of EVERYTHING, making uniform gravity just a practical law of physics, providing Mercury with an ASTEROID FIELD (which despite the possibility of hypothetical Vulcanoids, is not possible ... in the “real” solar system).

The RECENT solar storm activity which can irradiate Sedna and Pluto.

Everything is much closer together, much smaller, far scaled down, as with a model, simplified, for the sake of a manageable simulation.

The Void is an artificial analogue of different aspects of Chaos (in Cosmogony).

The list of give-always is practically limitless. Most players probably just don’t notice because they’re too distracted by looking at their HUD (that’s just my POV, speculation, nothing personal, or critical really).

Now, something (or things) which have apparently gone undetected within just the Trailer:

A MAJOR point is that the younger apparition which plants the shotgun to be pulled out, is NOT the (or an) OPERATOR.

It is, what has been constantly, increasingly, and ever more inaccurately named “The Man In The Wall.”

(I do not bode with using that term. I have merely adopted the generic “doppelgänger” until a better quality of information/experience presents itself).

Boo!

Yeah, that apparent “operator” made a very deliberate hard look, directly into the virtual lens, to show the golden Glow of the System as seen from the “outside” within its “eyes.”

So, if you have a “theory” which assumes that the apparition seen planting the gun is the operator in relation to who is seen pulling it out, well, it’s not the operator. At least not in its present, conversant, and somehow more naturally familiar, but still not integrated state (of being other than, or not the doppelgänger, etc.)