Nightwave induces me to not play the game.

[Hobie-wan]

3 hours ago, Mad5cout said:

Thank you for agreeing with my main point, which is that Nightwave induces people to play other games instead.

That makes no sense. If it was back on alerts, did having an alert pop up make you log out of the game and do something else? Did you just waste time in chat hoping for an alert to pop up before? If playing the game isn't enjoyable for you on its own and you only care about waiting for the 'best' time to min/max things, it sounds like you just want to be working a job.

[MagPrime]

On 2019-07-08 at 8:47 AM, Mad5cout said:

Sure I come in to do my daily and weekly nightwave missions but now I find myself doing things like not gilding or forma'ing items I normally would grind to min-max because I know that eventually nightwave is going to come along and ask me to do it.  If I min-max new gear that I actually like and use as a high MR player, then I know I am just going to have to forma a weapon that doesn't matter to me at all to complete nightwave tasks.  The end result of that for me, as I manage my time, is to simply not min-max new gear until nightwave comes along.  So, rather than play the game, I log off and wait for nightwave to catch up.

 

Specifically for the Forma; with the new catch up mechanic, you have the ability to do the challenges you want and bypass the Forma or Gild ones and then you can plan on doing them at another time.

[(XBOX)Calliber]

You're basing your play time/decisions around Nightwave instead of doing what you like to do or would normally do, that's a problem you've decided for yourself.  As of now there's only 2 challenges that require pre-planning of sorts, Forma and Gilding.  Neither of which need to be done to hit 30 by the end of the season.  Remove the governor you put on the game, go play as you normally would and peg away at the challenges when you're looking for something else to do.  

[(XBOX)RPColten]

Why is 'ignoring the Forma task' not a valid solution?

[Vox_Preliator]

1 hour ago, (XB1)RPColten said:

Why is 'ignoring the Forma task' not a valid solution?

I lost count of how many Elite missions I didn't do last time, for most of it I think I left at least one undone per week, and still reached rank 31 without even focusing on Nightwave most of the time.  Granted, if there are Emissary equivalents to Saturn Six Fugitives I haven't seen them, so there might not be any alternate way of getting standing.

[Oldskinzz]

I'd say it's simple to handle with this new nightwave series. With catch up implemented, you can just skip the task for now and get back to it later on if you find something to forma in the following weeks. 

And if you get to a stage where you find you don't need that 4500 nightwave points then simply let it go.

Edited July 11, 2019 by Oldskinzz
Grammar

[Steel_Rook]

8 hours ago, (XB1)RPColten said:

Why is 'ignoring the Forma task' not a valid solution?

Because it does't address the issue. For a rather crass metaphor, it's akin to leaving poop in my salad and asking me to eat around it. I could, yes, but that's not the point.

Inventory challenges are not engaging. Either the player has the items needed on-hand, in which case the challenge is trivial, or the player doesn't have the items on-hand in which case they go about their business doing other challenges and acquires the said items along the way. Worse, inventory challenges are often tedious both from the perspective of players feeling hesitant to use up their inventory and from the perspective of players feeling compelled to use up inventory they might perhaps wish to save.

Again, I'd much rather have a 30-minute Survival or 20-wave defence mission or even a Tridolon than "do you happen to have 3 Forma on hand right now?" The former cause me to go out and engage with the game. The latter causes me to dig through my inventory.

[Teridax68]

While I wouldn't go as far as to say that Nightwave makes me stop playing the game entirely, I have to agree that the inventory challenges have indeed been making me hold off on consuming certain resources. It's not just that I can catch up on the Forma later, it's that applying Forma to current items means that if the challenge pops up in the future, I'll have "wasted" my Forma consumption. The same can be said for Ayatan sculptures, and gilding modular weapons is always going to feel like a waste after I've already maxed out every part. Removing these "use X resource" challenges would eliminate what I'd say is the single biggest issue with Nightwave right now.

[Solarsyphon]

Night wave is in practicality great but it has an odd psychological effect on people. People stress out by the mere fact it is timed even though the time is very generous and people feel the need to complete every task even though they don't need to. I think this is unavoidable with this kind of system.  I think the tasks people hold off on like the guiding and forma-ing should be removed.  They should be replaced with more missions specific tasks like kill juggernauts or orb mothers. 

 

[vomder]

Yep, these kind of "challenges" are quite annoying. And given that if you don't do all of them and maximize what you can get from nightwave, you are shooting yourself in the foot in regards to future content and the resources you are going to need to make things. So effectively it's an illusion of choice as you are forced to do it. Making players play a game not the way they want but the way someone else wants is very bad.

[FeralKuja]

My solution to gilding modular items or polarizing three times challenges?

Cetus and Fortuna rep are easy enough to get, in fact I've been sitting capped on both because I don't use it outside of these challenges (I have my four kitgun builds with 5 forma each, a handful of Zaws I'm invested into, etc.), but when I have to gild a modular item I'll just throw together a nonsense Zaw with whatever strike, grip, and links that strike my fancy, gild it, and then immediately recoup my rep losses by donating it to the Cetus militia.

As far as polarizing items three times? I've got frames out the wazoo and some old garbo primaries, secondaries, and melees that I can afford to drop one forma each on if the challenge pops up because I have forma in the printer 24/7 as long as I take a day to farm up more forma blueprints, and lately I've been doing Lua, Plato and happening upon the song challenge room and getting supplementary forma for that besides.

I personally like how Nightwave is forcing me to diversify where and how I play for the weeklies, try new things, and overall experiment more. Overall the Nightwave rewards are one thing, but I also find the experience of changing up my play time each time I log in to also be appealing. I used to get so burned out because I had one "white whale" I was going after with all my fire and fury, not getting it, and getting disappointed and doubling down into grinding for it. Now I'm spreading myself out more, doing more mission types, more types of content, and even meeting new types of players and even newer players (A group of under MR10 players who were after Nitain on Lua and then splitting off when they swapped to Ghoul Purge bounties).

Variety is the spice of life, and Nightwave gave me a good push to open that cupboard and sample a bunch of them each week.

[killaflex90]

4. Grind plat

5. do new content

6. pvp (lol)

7. help other players

I feel like you just listed the first 3 things that came to mind. There are many things to do in Warframe end game, and you listed only the 3 things YOU like to do endgame. 

I like the NW system. I usually don't grind all of it because I can get much of if incidentally. But you CAN grind it, compared to the old Nitain system, which IMO makes it superior. 

[Test-995]

On 2019-07-11 at 9:21 AM, (XB1)RPColten said:

Why is 'ignoring the Forma task' not a valid solution?

Because next week's nightwave challenge could be all forma acts.

[Mad5cout]

To answer all the detractors, many of whom don't think about the problem for more than 3 seconds to see why their criticism of my comment is invalid.

1.  "If nightwave were back on alerts..."  Not the same.  In the alert system, I could target only those missions that had the specific thing I wanted.  In the nightwave system, to get the things I actually want (20K Kuva, Aura Forma, Umbral Forma, Operator Armor, etc.) I have to grind through several tasks and work through the levels of everything I could give a crap about to get there.

2.  "The catch up mechanic"  They don't add content fast enough for this to matter for inventory challenges.  In order for this to work, they would have to drop new gear several times in one nightwave "season."  While we have had a lot of content drop recently, that is due to the fact that it is summer and near tennocon, where they are trying to keep kids' attention in off school months.  During the school year, content drops slow down to a crawl - sometimes 6 months apart.

3.  "You've made the choice" and "why don't you just skip them" I have already addressed this.  I could skip them.  But the point of nightwave was, in part, to give MR27 players something to do.  What I am pointing out is that these particular missions do the exact opposite of that - they make me not play the game when those particular challenges are not active.  This isn't a hard concept people.  This has nothing to do with me not wanting to go through the trouble of formaing gear.  I USED to do that daily.  Now I wait and sometimes log off to play other games because I value my time.  I would rather wait to forma a piece of gear I care about than to waste forma on crap gear that I never would normally.  Yes, that is a choice but a rational one.  The ever loving point of my comment is that these challenges provide a perverse incentive to not play the game for many people.

4. "I make it to max rank even skipping a bunch of challenges" - In nightwave one, you had the boss and adds constantly popping into missions giving you a way to literally grind nightwave without ever doing challenges.  That isn't the case this time.  We also never know how long the 'season' will be because they don't post an overall end date.  You might be willing to roll the dice.  I am not.  This also still doesn't change the fact that the inventory missions still provide the incentive to not do something I would normally do (forma and gild new gear) so that I don't waste my time.

5. "4. grind plat: I do, 5. do new content: Already have and finished it, 6. pvp: nope..., 7. help other players: I do."  Not one of those comments changes the fact that the addition of these nightwaves tasks essentially encourages high MR players to not forma their gear when they normally would.  Completely irrelevant information.

 

Edited July 12, 2019 by Mad5cout

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

I agree that the gilding and formaing challenges shouldn't be there at all. I've had issues where I was annoyed that I had just forma'd something right before the objective and got no credit for it, or that I will have to forma something unnecessarily when it comes or. Or create a whole new modular item just to gild.

But...it's entirely optional. You can easily get to max now only doing a fraction of them. They should be removed, yes. But skip them for now. With the "Recovered" options you can always make progress without being held up by them and stick to ones you're ok with. That's a better option then letting one optional aspect of the game prevent you from playing if there's other things in game you still want to do.

[Hobie-wan]

4 hours ago, Mad5cout said:

To answer all the detractors, many of whom don't think about the problem for more than 3 seconds to see why their criticism of my comment is invalid.

1.  "If nightwave were back on alerts..."  Not the same.  In the alert system, I could target only those missions that had the specific thing I wanted.  In the nightwave system, to get the things I actually want (20K Kuva, Aura Forma, Umbral Forma, Operator Armor, etc.) I have to grind through several tasks and work through the levels of everything I could give a crap about to get there.


 

And to say it again for those that don't think about random alerts for more than 3 seconds either: That's great if you're sitting at your PC 24 hours a day and can jump in at any moment when an alert randomly pops up and happens to randomly be something you need. But hey, even if we keep it to nitain, which everyone needs.

Alert for nitain popped up while you're asleep, at work, or sitting on the can paying for that questionable spicy street food you ate last night? Tough. Doing something with family and friends and have the app on your phone and one pops up? Are you the kind of misguided jerk with messed up priorities that tells everyone you'll "be right back" while you go jump in the game and grab it?

[Mad5cout]

On 2019-07-12 at 3:16 PM, Hobie-wan said:

And to say it again for those that don't think about random alerts for more than 3 seconds either: That's great if you're sitting at your PC 24 hours a day and can jump in at any moment when an alert randomly pops up and happens to randomly be something you need. But hey, even if we keep it to nitain, which everyone needs.

Alert for nitain popped up while you're asleep, at work, or sitting on the can paying for that questionable spicy street food you ate last night? Tough. Doing something with family and friends and have the app on your phone and one pops up? Are you the kind of misguided jerk with messed up priorities that tells everyone you'll "be right back" while you go jump in the game and grab it?

I prefer the nightwave and it was a solution to this problem.  But they created a second problem by using missions like this within the nightwave system.  I thought the best nightwave missions were things like do 3 of X mission type or Complete X number of nightmare missions.  These are the types of things that promote actually playing the game and often pushed me to do mission types I have not done in a long while.  The nightmare mission tasks added to rather than depleted my inventory.  They need to stick with these types of things.  I even prefer "pet your cat" to "forma 3 times."

[--Aegis--MR9]

You don't need to do all nw missions u know that right? You would get to max rank even if you skip few every week.

[Mad5cout]

13 hours ago, MR9BCI said:

You don't need to do all nw missions u know that right? You would get to max rank even if you skip few every week.

I have addressed this comment like 5 times in this thread.

[(XBOX)Nightseid]

I feel many of the riven challenges should really be nightwave challenges and unveiling rivens should just cost kuva.