The zhuge prime

[--DSP--]

51 minutes ago, sharkstrangler said:

How about they either

1. Completely remove self-damage, it has no 0 reason to exist in WF.

2. Make Cautious Shot do 100% Self Damage reduction instead of 99%.

I honestly don’t understand why 99%

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

Zhuge Prime is fine

Explosions are fun, and if you can't handle them; just use Normal Zhuge instead.

 

Think of Zhuge Prime as a Sidegrade with explosive tradeoffs, not a clear cut upgrade to Normal Zhuge.

 

I think Sidegrades are great; constant PowerCreep is not.

There's no need for the Prime/Vandal/Wraith version of a weapon to make the original totally obsolete.

I hope future Primes follow the example

[crackbeard]

the only thing with a sidegrade is that this weapon wasnt very good to begin with along with all the other crossbows so this was a chance to finally make a good one. powercreep is already in the game so i like when they use primes to help crappy weapons cach  up to the already good ones.

[crackbeard]

6 hours ago, birdobash said:

I don't find the self damage from this weapon in particular to be a problem at all, due to the fact that it does not one shot you and gives you time to react in 2 ways.

1. The bolts explosion is delayed, so you have time to jump away if you see you shot one too close to you.

2. The weapon does not do enough single shot damage to one shot most frames even fully modded, only one shotting the squishier side of frames without any survivability mods.

For example, it only kills a wukong with vitality with 5-6 shots without his defy buff up, Wukongs base stats themselves without abilities are about average to above average in tankiness. If you get killed constantly by this weapon, it is undoubtedly your own fault and slow reaction time, just like with the lenz, it gives enough leeway for you to avoid being killed by it, unlike other explosive weapons like the Zarr or angstrum where if you accidently kill yourself it is 100% the fault of the weapon.

if your damage is high it does one shot you lol. and the main problem is the delayed explosion causes you to kill yourself if youre moving forward while killing enemies which is what youre supposed to do for like 70% of mission types.

[crackbeard]

people are saying you just have to play around it and you can but playing around it means you cant move forward and shoot because the explosion is delayed and moving forward while killing enemies is a key part if playing warframe. not to mention there are tons of weapons with way more damage potential that dont have any self damage so it seems fair. plus all the crossbows are pretty weak and this was a chance ti finally have a good one.

Edited July 10, 2019 by crackbeard

[crackbeard]

i think they should make the explosions heal you a small ammount if they damage an enemy nd hit you at the same time, it would reward forward progression and add a reason to actually use a crossbow without being too op.

[crackbeard]

they should make it so the explosions heal you a small ammount if they hit an enemy and you at the same time. it would reward forward movement and be a fun reason to actually use a crossbow without being too op.

[Oreades]

IMHO they really shouldn't take weapons that have no self Damage and seemingly arbitrarily just add Self Damage to the Primed Variant. 

Just make the Explosions the Alt Fire for the Zhuge prime, problem solved,

 

[Oreades]

I'm firmly in the Move the explosions and self damage to the Alt Fire of the Zhuge Prime

They shouldn't duct tape Self Damage onto weapons that normally do not have it as the primary fire mechanic. 

[Oreades]

Just move the explosive/Self damage from the Primary to a Secondary Fire mechanic. 

Problem solved, but yeah adding Self Damage to a weapon that does not typically have it is not a great move ore precedent IMHO. 

Edited July 10, 2019 by Oreades

[MirageKnight]

I can kind of understand DE's logic behind making Zhuge Prime Alarming, as it does lob bolts packed with explosives. That being said, the logic is arguably flawed.

The firing mechanism and ammunition for a repeating crossbow would be (and in real life is) relatively quiet compared to an assault rifle or smg. Other crossbows in the game are certainly treated as Silent, even when modded to use Thunderbolt, which grants a chance of an explosion on impact. Heck, Zhuge Prime's bolts don't even detonate on contact.

That being said, for the sake of consistency, Zhuge Prime should be treated as a Silent weapon.

Also, why add all that Slash damage and not keep it Puncture-heavy like the regular Zhuge? Crossbow bolts are designed to pierce things, not cut them.

I swear, DE has an unhealthy obsession with Slash weapons...

[Tiltskillet]

Just now, Oreades said:

IMHO they really shouldn't take weapons that have no self Damage and seemingly arbitrarily just add Self Damage to the Primed Variant. 

Just make the Explosions the Alt Fire for the Zhuge prime, problem solved,

 

It doesn't involve a variant, but there's some similarity with the situation when they reworked the Staticor and added self-damage to it...and then removed it after a week or two.  I don't care too much either way, but maybe they'll be similarly responsive in this case.

[Oreades]

57 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

It doesn't involve a variant, but there's some similarity with the situation when they reworked the Staticor and added self-damage to it...and then removed it after a week or two.  I don't care too much either way, but maybe they'll be similarly responsive in this case.

Yeah but at least the Staticor kinda made sense since the base mechanic of the weapon involved a large AoE blast. The Zhuge makes next to zero sense because they took a weapon with arrows and said "whelp now they just explode, good luck tenno".

[Oreades]

1 hour ago, MirageKnight said:

I can kind of understand DE's logic behind making Zhuge Prime Alarming, as it does lob bolts packed with explosives. That being said, the logic is arguably flawed.

Waaaaaait, they have some strange timed detonation mechanic, does self damage..... and it's Alarming......

They literally took my favorite cross bow and ruined it. 

 

This was literally THE THING I was looking forward to from this prime set like "OMG THE ZHUGE!!!!1!1one!!!11ONEone!!1!uno!!!!!" and just.... I'm not even sure if I want to grind out the last part for it anymore.

[vaarnaaarne]

We will also have to note that there isn't a single AoE weapon with self-damage that comes even close to comparing to the AoE damage output of a Catchmoon kitgun with a decent riven and Pax Seeker.

[vaarnaaarne]

2 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

I swear, DE has an unhealthy obsession with Slash weapons...

There is a very good reason for this!

Impact and Puncture lack in ultraviolence, but Slash will (well, should) dice things real good. This is a big problem, and Impact and Puncture need more ultraviolence too or we need to make all weapons Slash weapons.

[ShortCat]

3 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

Also, why add all that Slash damage

Because Slash is meta. DE as a developer embraces meta shaped by players, not the other way around.

[Marvelous_A]

8 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Cernos went from a Bow to a Shotgun Bow.

Zhuge went from a Crossbow to an Explosive Crossbow. They seem equally dramatic.

So did ballistica like I said. But it didn't turn from not killing you to killing you.

8 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Hardly.

It works more like Tonkor than Attica. 

8 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Lol.

Don't think it's the crossbow everyone was expecting when they hear Zhuge Prime. The mandatory explosive arrow is an unnecessary feature for it anyway. Won't say anything if it's optional. Unlike Cernos there was no prime crossbow alternatives. Like seriously do this when it's second of its kind.

Edited July 10, 2019 by Marvelous_A

[DeMonkey]

4 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

It works more like Tonkor than Attica. 

No, it works more like an Attica with a slightly more powerful Thunderbolt mod. Have you used it?

If this is a grenade launcher then so are my Hikou.

5 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

Don't think it's the crossbow everyone was expecting when they hear Zhuge Prime.

Doesn't make it "unacceptable". Not by a long shot.

[Marvelous_A]

3 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

No, it works more like an Attica with a slightly more powerful Thunderbolt mod. Have you used it?

If this is a grenade launcher then so are my Hikou.

Yeah. Take away CE and your Hikou will work like my Kunai. Now please with videos show me how to take away the explosive arrows and make it works like my Attica.

3 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Doesn't make it "unacceptable". Not by a long shot.

It is to me. Look I'm not replying here to express YOUR thought.

Edited July 10, 2019 by Marvelous_A

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, Marvelous_A said:

Yeah. Take away CE and you Hikou will work like my Kunai. Now please with videos show me how to take away the explosive arrows and make it works like my Attica.

That's not how this works. You compared the weapon to the Tonkor and referred to it as a grenade launcher due to the explosive arrowheads.

I then stated that it's as much a grenade launcher as my Hikou are, because they can also explode. The intent here to show that just because something explodes, doesn't make it a grenade launcher. Zhuge Prime is not and is not even close to being a grenade launcher.

3 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

It is to me.

There we go. We've gone from grand statements and speaking for the community to personal preference. Much better.

[Marvelous_A]

18 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

That's not how this works. You compared the weapon to the Tonkor and referred to it as a grenade launcher due to the explosive arrowheads.

I then stated that it's as much a grenade launcher as my Hikou are, because they can also explode. The intent here to show that just because something explodes, doesn't make it a grenade launcher. Zhuge Prime is not and is not even close to being a grenade launcher.

Yet it shares the trait of killing yourself just like a grenade launcher. Can't you understand no one will say anything if it doesn't do self damage? Or if it's an alternate firing mode? When we finally get a primed crossbow and it turns out you get a mandatory unwanted trait coming with it it's bound to get some hate. 

I don't understand why don't DE make it a proper crossbow first and then they can do whatever they want for the second prime coz players already got a prime alternative.

Edited July 10, 2019 by Marvelous_A

[DeMonkey]

Just now, Marvelous_A said:

Yet it shares the trait of killing yourself just like a grenade launcher.

It's yet to kill me, something that grenade launchers have done before now.

1 minute ago, Marvelous_A said:

Can't you understand no one will say anything if it doesn't do self damage?

Where did I suggest that I didn't understand that? I'm responding to your statements that it's unacceptable, that no one wanted it and that it's "a grenade launcher". Whether I "understand" that no one will complain if it were it's alt-fire is irrelevant.

[Marvelous_A]

2 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

It's yet to kill me, something that grenade launchers have done before now.

Where did I suggest that I didn't understand that? I'm responding to your statements that it's unacceptable, that no one wanted it and that it's "a grenade launcher". Whether I "understand" that no one will complain if it were it's alt-fire is irrelevant.

It is relevant. You are in a thread that OP created to complain the self-damaging characteristic of Zhuge Prime.

 

[DeMonkey]

Just now, Marvelous_A said:

It is relevant. You are in a thread that OP created to complain the self-damaging characteristic of Zhuge Prime.

 

Sigh... I can respond to grandiose claims and fake news without having to give an opinion on certain matters.