At What Part of The Game Do You Think The Majority of NEW Players Quit The Game?

[FrostDragoon]

That's only if the grind is even a factor for you. For some of us, that's called, "playing the game." 😃

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

It's 2019. You can't use poor game guidance as an excuse forever. You have to be on the internet to play the game. In an "extreme" situation you could simply turn the game off and use the PS4 browser. Assuming for some reason a person doesn't have a smart phone.

 

There's no excuse to not be able to google something in our current atmosphere.

 

Are there a bunch of people playing that grew up in the 80s? Then maybe you'd have a point. 

[FrostDragoon]

1 hour ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

It's 2019. You can't use poor game guidance as an excuse forever. You have to be on the internet to play the game. In an "extreme" situation you could simply turn the game off and use the PS4 browser. Assuming for some reason a person doesn't have a smart phone.

 

There's no excuse to not be able to google something in our current atmosphere.

 

Are there a bunch of people playing that grew up in the 80s? Then maybe you'd have a point. 

Actually, I find it's the kids under 25 that have the hardest time with it. Anyone who grew up playing NES, Genesis, N64, SNES, N64, etc. learned how to play games by just playing them. Trial and error, phone a friend, experiment with wacky ideas, and so on. It wasn't until about the N64 (and later into its life) that using the internet as a gaming resource really began to pick up steam--that was back in the days of Nintendo Power, the early days of sites like Cheat Code Central, IGN (before it was just corrupt access "journalism"), GameSpot, GameFAQs (before it was bought by GameSpot)... 😎

[MisterHooks]

Probably around the third or fourth point where the newbie runs out of credits.

I made a new account to try out the new player experience and while everything was nice, I was constantly credit starved to the point of it not being fun. It was absolutely 0 fun having no credits but all the materials to make new guns.

You could say that getting taxi'd to Index is the solution, but newbies don't know that, so RIP them. 

[FrostDragoon]

33 minutes ago, MisterHooks said:

Probably around the third or fourth point where the newbie runs out of credits.

I made a new account to try out the new player experience and while everything was nice, I was constantly credit starved to the point of it not being fun. It was absolutely 0 fun having no credits but all the materials to make new guns.

You could say that getting taxi'd to Index is the solution, but newbies don't know that, so RIP them. 

I've been doing early dark sectors for credits on my fresh account. 15-20k/run isn't a lot, but it's enough for a new player.

[(XBOX)Togashi]

When they see the new lighting system, and how it makes all your warframes look like they are made of plastic. 

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

On 2019-09-11 at 11:44 PM, --Brandt-- said:

Judging by Reddit and being in Twitch streams, a ton of new players complain about the crafting times and waiting 3 days for a frame. So they stop playing.

People really need to learn some patience. I have not once purchased weapons/frames from the market or rushed anything in the Foundry.

A little self control goes a long way.

[MisterHooks]

3 minutes ago, (NSW)Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

People really need to learn some patience. I have not once purchased weapons/frames from the market or rushed anything in the Foundry.

A little self control goes a long way.

Three days is pretty crazy, though. It's arbitrary as hell, and I would feel the same way rushing an item that takes 24 hours as I do an item that takes 72 hours.

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

3 minutes ago, MisterHooks said:

Three days is pretty crazy, though. It's arbitrary as hell, and I would feel the same way rushing an item that takes 24 hours as I do an item that takes 72 hours.

DE gotta encourage those Platinum sales some way. Might as well exploit the impatient whales to fund their development costs.

Besides. Three days isn't that terrible. Plus I have other games I like to play during the downtime. 

Edited September 22, 2019 by (NSW)Ace-Bounty-Hunter

[MisterHooks]

Just now, (NSW)Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

DE gotta encourage those Platinum sales some way. Might as well exploit the impatient whales to fund their development costs.

Besides. I have other games I like to play during the downtime. 

Hey great that's amazing for you.

How about the other players that don't want to necessarily dump time or real cash into the game just yet? We're talking newbies here. If it was 24 Hours the whales would still throw money but the ones who can't open their wallets are still shafted but significantly less shafted. 

I don't like how you say that "I have other games I like to play during the downtime" as if Warframe isn't a game that you can throw several hours of a day if you're allowed to. I think that we should be encouraging people to experience and play the game instead of saying "Well, I have to wait 3 days for my new frame to build, I might as go play Celeste of WoW for the next two days". 

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

1 minute ago, MisterHooks said:

Hey great that's amazing for you.

How about the other players that don't want to necessarily dump time or real cash into the game just yet? We're talking newbies here. If it was 24 Hours the whales would still throw money but the ones who can't open their wallets are still shafted but significantly less shafted. 

I don't like how you say that "I have other games I like to play during the downtime" as if Warframe isn't a game that you can throw several hours of a day if you're allowed to. I think that we should be encouraging people to experience and play the game instead of saying "Well, I have to wait 3 days for my new frame to build, I might as go play Celeste of WoW for the next two days". 

Why would you willingly tie yourself to just a single game the whole time? You do realize there are games other than Warframe, right?

Whatever. Do what you want. Just don't come crying to me when you binge the game until you're sick of it.

[digimbyte]

Plains of Eidolon
that place is a trashfire between the ghouls and thumpers

combine that with the lack of incentive or communication on what to do next.
you need to communicate to players that there are quests that can be unlocked and encourage them to seek them out. 

ultimatly, people come here for a story driven game and are greeted with a sandbox with a prologue 

[MisterHooks]

Just now, (NSW)Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

Why would you willingly tie yourself to just a single game the whole time?

Why not? It works for other MMOs. 

 

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

6 minutes ago, MisterHooks said:

Why not? It works for other MMOs. 

And the general consensus on most forums I frequent for MMO's like WoW is "There's no content" "I am bored" "This game sucks.

People like to blame the game for getting stale. But the harsh reality is they play it until the point of burnout. Learn some moderation. Play a wider variety of games instead of doing the same stuff every day. It'll make you happier in the long run. 

Helps that Warframe has the added bonus of not requiring a subscription to play it. So people have no excuse to binge it 24/7.

Edited September 22, 2019 by (NSW)Ace-Bounty-Hunter

[Urlan]

I would agree that right now, many folk I have helped tend to avoid the Plains and Vallis unless they feel they have to go there, due to the mixture of a feeling of having to "Start all over" with rep grinds and due to the areas being more draining resource wise than the rest of the game. Others, when the mastery limits make them worry about scrapping too much gear as slots are not a common commodity starting out; but many even if it is after coming back, finish the story quests eventually though they have said that they would be lost at times without something or someone to tell them what unlocks what, how you do the tasks, and some of the special missions. Very little is explained in the game, for some that is a bonus, for others its a problem and if we want to be inclusive, it might be good to try to retain players.

Some players they don't quit because of the missions, but due to feeling they don't have much to do but the same grind to maybe get something, it wears you down. The longer it goes without anything to use your leveled stuff on; the weapons and companions, the less reason to stay around waiting for more stuff next time.

[MisterHooks]

10 minutes ago, (NSW)Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

And the general consensus on most forums I frequent for MMO's like WoW is "There's no content" "I am bored" "This game sucks.

And that takes a couple of thousands of hours to say. Maybe several hundred if you're really good. 

If the game has a reasonable endgame, it'll take several thousand hours, such as the case is with WoW. 

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

6 minutes ago, MisterHooks said:

And that takes a couple of thousands of hours to say. Maybe several hundred if you're really good. 

If the game has a reasonable endgame, it'll take several thousand hours, such as the case is with WoW. 

You sure about that? The official WoW forums and MMO-Champion is nothing but an endless deluge of people saying how garbage Battle for Azeroth is.

It's so bad that people would rather play outdated s*** like Classic WoW. (Not that I agree with those nostalgia blinded morons).

Edited September 22, 2019 by (NSW)Ace-Bounty-Hunter

[(PSN)TertulSee]

On 2019-09-11 at 3:36 PM, VotumPrime said:

State what part of the game you think it is and why do you think they quit at that part and what DE should do to remedy it so that things stay interesting and keep these new players from leaving forever.

About after Second Dream or right out after the tutorial. Everything before the Second Dream is a huge mess in my opinion. I feel there should be some hand holding while in the process of getting to the Second Dream. I think most people don’t quit after the tutorial is because there is someone guiding them through. Otherwise, Warframe’s early game is just too daunting. There should be guides on how to mod, how to increase mod capacity, how to get primes and so forth. After the Second Dream, most players become frustrated because of how they don’t have to work themselves to the War Within because they done with the grind and can’t handle it. Very few can handle the grind Warframe offers but what keep this game going strong is because of players helping players.

[DaMasque]

Slots is a necessary buy and because the only way to acquire slots is through plat, people will stop playing cause of inventory issues.

[HappyPlecostomus]

Had my brother played this game for awhile. He decided to quit right after gathering all the ship components. In my opinion, new players will quit because they have very little guidance on what to do after that. I continued to play this game because I have friends that are willing to carry me through missions. I was MR4 when they decided to bring me to a 1hr Kuva survival. Lvl64 mob started spawning and that's where I thought I would be dead. It's an eye opener on what this game is about.

Warframe is a co-op heavy game. New players will quit if they don't have friends to play together with them. 

Edited September 22, 2019 by HappyFishxas

[MisterHooks]

1 hour ago, (NSW)Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

You sure about that? The official WoW forums and MMO-Champion is nothing but an endless deluge of people saying how garbage Battle for Azeroth is.

It's so bad that people would rather play outdated s*** like Classic WoW. (Not that I agree with those nostalgia blinded morons).

Yeah, I'm very sure about that. The angry people posting about how garbage BfA is are still playing it. The people playing Classic WoW are playing for more than just Nostalgia, it's a superior game to most things in the market in general.

You seem to have a pretty low understanding of WoW though, so if you want to continue, we should move away from the topic of WoW and move back to Warframe. 

[FrostDragoon]

I've had a few RL friends try Warframe and quit when they saw the built times for things. Even though it builds while you're offline, the arbitrary nature of it combined with the "option" to rush it via platinum--combined with the way the game pushes the market in your face asap--gives people the impression that the game is extremely p2w, even though it just kind of is.

[Isokaze_BestKaze]

From what I've seen by staring in region chat, most new players are completely lost after finishing Vor's Prize. They finish that "tutorial" and ask what they should do afterward.

Imo the game should make clearer that your long-term goal as a beginner is the Second Dream quest, and thus they have to aim for Jupiter then Uranus ASAP.

 

A nice idea I had would be to show on the starchart where frames drops. For example a Rhino icon on both Venus and the boss node could be nice. Player would immediately know where Rhino, Mag, Excalibur, Trinity etc. drops and make that one of their goal. Going further, you could even add Gauss icon on Kelpie, Sedna, or Harrow System on Kuva Fortress Spy, etc... 

[Aldain]

7 hours ago, FrostDragoon said:

Actually, I find it's the kids under 25 that have the hardest time with it. Anyone who grew up playing NES, Genesis, N64, SNES, N64, etc. learned how to play games by just playing them. Trial and error, phone a friend, experiment with wacky ideas, and so on. It wasn't until about the N64 (and later into its life) that using the internet as a gaming resource really began to pick up steam--that was back in the days of Nintendo Power, the early days of sites like Cheat Code Central, IGN (before it was just corrupt access "journalism"), GameSpot, GameFAQs (before it was bought by GameSpot)... 

While a fair assertion, it should be noted that Warframe has significantly more (occasionally needlessly) complex layers than your average game from the N64/PSX or before eras, most of the time games back then were more limited in their design, so the complexity, even more complex titles like older RPGs, were still more user friendly and explained more on average.

I mean Super Mario 64 doesn't need that much explanation because it (along with a single instruction manual) shows the players methods to utilize the abilities present in the game, Warframe barely explains how to move to new players and the interactions of movement are mostly either hidden in the codex or not explained at all.

The issue Warframe has when compared to those older games in terms of explaining things is that it doesn't do anything to actually guide the player to the conclusions that yield success, which can be chalked up to the sheer amount of different approaches that are available, no system could be in place to account for all of them. Players wind up confused due to the lack of a structured start that eases them into it, which even older games had in some ways (there are examples like Ghosts n' Goblins that just bust the player's balls from second one though).

I don't think there is one unified action that DE could take to improve the new player experience, but I feel like a bit more (as much as people hate this word) railroading would help to prevent players from spilling out into things that are excessively confusing (looking at you PoE) or can be missed entirely (good modding practices/weapon blueprints).

Edited September 22, 2019 by Aldain

[FrostDragoon]

I have to disagree that complexity alone is responsible for that difference. Partially because older games taught you how to play through design and expected you to try all the buttons to learn the controls. The other part is because you can compartmentalize every system in Warframe into something that isn't hard to understand. I think it's more that players are too lazy/entitled to believe they should have to go look for their own answers these days, because there isn't a question that a newbie could reasonably ask that the answer hasn't been provided hundreds of times.

 

The one thing DE could do to resolve a lot of the "Vor's Prize, now what?" syndrome is to have the Lotus inbox you some tutorial directions in the form of:

-Explain what MR is and how it is raised, why it's important, and the cheap/easy methods to get more early (MK1 weapons, for example).

-Explain how the Star Chart works and how to progress in it, including Junctions.

-Explain in more depth how mods work, polarities, and the importance of increasing mod rank. Maybe even provide about 200 Endo to get them started and some pointers on how to get more.

That's it. Most of these are self-explanatory enough that just these instructions would give enough direction for players to branch out and explore to progress their game. The game itself wouldn't really need anything changed on this front.