DE, remove revives from Arbitrations

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

55 minutes ago, (XB1)ShadowBlood89 said:

so you want them to have it how it was like before?
as it used be you die you die an so after alot of players complaining about it they added in a system to allow you to revive a player if you want.
as it stands now you can pick if you want to revive the fallen player or not

Heres what I dont like. If a teammate goes down the arbitration drones will sometimes decide to stop spawning entirely. So you cant revive them anyway.

 

But when that doesnt happen, the revive tokens end up being scattered all over creation and it seems like instead of one player being the one to take 5 tokens and go for the revive, it seems like every ends up picking them up. I've seen cases where somebody will have 4, I'll have 1 by accident, somebody else will have 3 and so on. That gets annoying. Like I get that they were trying to find a balance between "no revives at all" and the "you have like 10 self revives per mission in addition to easy revives from teammates and this isnt counting sacrifice mod" but it just feels janky to me. I usually just play arbis solo for this reason.

[Xerachiel]

hace 2 minutos, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA dijo:

Heres what I dont like. If a teammate goes down the arbitration drones will sometimes decide to stop spawning entirely. So you cant revive them anyway.

 

But when that doesnt happen, the revive tokens end up being scattered all over creation and it seems like instead of one player being the one to take 5 tokens and go for the revive, it seems like every ends up picking them up. I've seen cases where somebody will have 4, I'll have 1 by accident, somebody else will have 3 and so on. That gets annoying. Like I get that they were trying to find a balance between "no revives at all" and the "you have like 10 self revives per mission in addition to easy revives from teammates and this isnt counting sacrifice mod" but it just feels janky to me. I usually just play arbis solo for this reason.

Yeah a lot of people seems to think it's actually your choice to pick the things or not.
You will pick them, wether you like them or not.

[hendrix923]

With all these new rewards more players than ever will be playing the game mode and it will suck for people when players are dying left and right and ur squads gone.   Then it’s 50min until ur next run. But right now I can live with revives until new rules are set in place (which won’t happen, they want newer players on those modes). 

Maybe after finishing the star chart and doing 50 sorties u can do Arbitrations. And u only get 1 revive and there’s a penalty like lose half the rewards that forfeit to the other team members. That way u have some rivens and experience and stakes. 

[(PSN)Tomplexthis]

1 hour ago, Zekkii said:

If anything revives make it more challenging, because now you have to play with health reductions, energy drain, and the constant complaints of overly demanding team mates.

there is 0 need for them to add a debuff when you try to revive a teammate, it just makes it that much more worthless

[844448]

1 hour ago, Xerachiel said:

You say that like it takes a lot of time to unlock every node.

And the focus is not that different from the title.
Revives in arbitrations are an example of DE catering to new players, wich is fine in itself (game needs new players all the time).
But the thing is...they only do things with that mentality.
When they introduced Fortuna, me and my friends had one of the more fun times playing, because the mobs scaled really fine and you had to actually play the game!
But then, they nerfed the hell out of it, because new players found it too hard....
Arbitrations, of all things, was advertised as something for experienced players...

New players? No, it's the numerous of "veterans" that complain they're not balanced with new players as the excuse

[Otobai]

1 hour ago, Zekkii said:

If anything revives make it more challenging, because now you have to play with health reductions, energy drain, and the constant complaints of overly demanding team mates.

Agreed and those people who die in the first couple minutes now hang around to leech. 

[VanosPrime]

This game has too many surprise deaths to have a no revive mission mode where it's expected you play for 20+ minutes at a time. It's ridiculous to ask for something like that in current Warframe. 

Reducing the number of revives a player has could be a good idea or having a respawn time that increases with each death or something to that effect. There are good ideas for arbitrations that won't cause it to be a ghost town of a mission.

[seprent]

yes i would love to go back to when ever i did a arbitration and the host died he would just quit force a migration and either kill us or we all get booted from the mission losting rewards or if your the host and you don't want to do that to other people have to wait for the other players for them to be done so your sitting there doing nothing for who knows how long sounds fun /s

revives you have to work for and it lets me play the game so those 2 things very rarely happen to me now and i would like to keep it that way please and thank you 

[Xerachiel]

hace 1 minuto, seprent dijo:

yes i would love to go back to when ever i did a arbitration and the host died he would just quit force a migration and either kill us or we all get booted from the mission losting rewards or if your the host and you don't want to do that to other people have to wait for the other players for them to be done so your sitting there doing nothing for who knows how long sounds fun /s

revives you have to work for and it lets me play the game so those 2 things very rarely happen to me now and i would like to keep it that way please and thank you 

So one bad experience with the game mode is enough to change it?
I did a LOT of arbis when they were new and I encountered bad host migrations only a couple times, and I'm playing from south america on the NA server, so I usually play with about 150-200 ping.
I said it before, I died on arbis a lot, from bringing the wrong frame, from bugs or just for sucking at the game and not being paying attention. I can deal with that.
What I can't deal with is playing for the 50th time with 2 players on the group not giving a crap just because the party can ress them.
Or better said, because the party can't avoid ressurecting them, because of forced debuffs

[FaithRose]

1 hour ago, trst said:

There are more reasons for someone dying in Arbitrations besides being inexperienced or unprepared. Certainly many people have had accidental deaths (or what could lead to one against higher levels) after taking a corner into an unseen Nullifier/Scrambus or one stray Scorpion/Ancient hook leading into being chain stunned.

Hope it is okay to chime in here. I don't think removal of revives is the way to go. I've experienced this very scenario. I main Trinity, and she's very hard to kill when linked but even I've fallen victim to turning a corner right into a nullifier and gotten dropped almost immediately. And RiP if you don't catch an energy drain the middle of a crowd while trying to keep yourself and your party alive. 

I'd also like to throw out the slight problem of the bonus damage for a frame/weapon. I'm not saying it should be removed, but it can often prompt players to use frames or weapons they are unfamiliar with which results in "deaths". Seeing a 300% damage buff on Saryn in some maps immediately makes me nervous. I adore Saryn, but it isn't long in arbitrations before she can be overtaken by nullifers or energy leeches (a lot of people don;t spec for health when they are going for damage) and it isn't long before the revives begin (I'm not saying she is the only frame to go down just an example). Should they have brought a frame they were more comfortable with? Sure. Is it he end of the world because I had to revive them though? No.

Thing is, when you pub...you get what you get. At least this game allows for selecting to only go with friends or you can just use recruiting chat to find a more dedicated group. That being said, even when I run with more experienced folks...we die XD and I personally wouldn't want anyone to miss out on a reward because of an accidental death. When someone dies, or most of us die, someone just rushes to the end and we do something else until the timer resets for a new Arby.

I understand you are frustrated (toward OP) but the hard fact is, new players help keep games alive. We ALL had learning curves when we started playing this game. None of us came in as "pros" and it can be easy to forget that after months of tireless game play. No offense, but I don't get why folks are so quick to click the "punish" button on new players. I do hope they release some hardcore content for vets (especially with railjack coming) but I don't think limiting the new player experience or locking them out is the way to go either. I personally feel the best way to kill a game, is to gimp it's growth. Sadly, one day the "vets" will move on...then what?

[seprent]

1 minute ago, Xerachiel said:

So one bad experience with the game mode is enough to change it?
I did a LOT of arbis when they were new and I encountered bad host migrations only a couple times, and I'm playing from south america on the NA server, so I usually play with about 150-200 ping.
I said it before, I died on arbis a lot, from bringing the wrong frame, from bugs or just for sucking at the game and not being paying attention. I can deal with that.
What I can't deal with is playing for the 50th time with 2 players on the group not giving a crap just because the party can ress them.
Or better said, because the party can't avoid ressurecting them, because of forced debuffs

It wasnt one bad experience it was several (20+) and the latter is me as the host btw the longest i had to wait before i could play the game before this revive mechanic was released was 70 minutes when i died at the 10 minute mark from a nullifier crewman stuck in a wall that i didnt see when i was playing a 300% trinity 

so you would prefer DE remove the system entirely because if someone in a pub game is dying back to back be "ayyy lamo they can res me" and making everyone suffer until he is picked up (removes burden) when you could make it so you have to press X to pick up the token (With no animation so cant die in that) instead of automatically picking them up when you run over them and i feel that would fix your problem instead of tossing the whole system and making even more people upset then now 

[Xerachiel]

hace 2 minutos, seprent dijo:

It wasnt one bad experience it was several (20+) and the latter is me as the host btw the longest i had to wait before i could play the game before this revive mechanic was released was 70 minutes when i died at the 10 minute mark from a nullifier crewman stuck in a wall that i didnt see when i was playing a 300% trinity 

so you would prefer DE remove the system entirely because if someone in a pub game is dying back to back be "ayyy lamo they can res me" and making everyone suffer until he is picked up (removes burden) when you could make it so you have to press X to pick up the token (With no animation so cant die in that) instead of automatically picking them up when you run over them and i feel that would fix your problem instead of tossing the whole system and making even more people upset then now 

Having to press X to pick up the burdens would likely make arbis 10 times better.
My whole problem with revives is the "punishing the ones that survived, instead of the ones that died" part in them.

It would be nice if they made them more challenging though. Like make them start at lvl100 or something.
Drones, while annoying, are actually a good idea in a game like Warframe, because it doesn't matter how though you make an enemy, people will find a way to oneshot it, so having something like drones (or nullis), makes you at least not able to just blindly one shot everything

[Xerachiel]

hace 9 minutos, FaithRose dijo:

Hope it is okay to chime in here. I don't think removal of revives is the way to go. I've experienced this very scenario. I main Trinity, and she's very hard to kill when linked but even I've fallen victim to turning a corner right into a nullifier and gotten dropped almost immediately. And RiP if you don't catch an energy drain the middle of a crowd while trying to keep yourself and your party alive. 

I'd also like to throw out the slight problem of the bonus damage for a frame/weapon. I'm not saying it should be removed, but it can often prompt players to use frames or weapons they are unfamiliar with which results in "deaths". Seeing a 300% damage buff on Saryn in some maps immediately makes me nervous. I adore Saryn, but it isn't long in arbitrations before she can be overtaken by nullifers or energy leeches (a lot of people don;t spec for health when they are going for damage) and it isn't long before the revives begin (I'm not saying she is the only frame to go down just an example). Should they have brought a frame they were more comfortable with? Sure. Is it he end of the world because I had to revive them though? No.

Thing is, when you pub...you get what you get. At least this game allows for selecting to only go with friends or you can just use recruiting chat to find a more dedicated group. That being said, even when I run with more experienced folks...we die XD and I personally wouldn't want anyone to miss out on a reward because of an accidental death. When someone dies, or most of us die, someone just rushes to the end and we do something else until the timer resets for a new Arby.

I understand you are frustrated (toward OP) but the hard fact is, new players help keep games alive. We ALL had learning curves when we started playing this game. None of us came in as "pros" and it can be easy to forget that after months of tireless game play. No offense, but I don't get why folks are so quick to click the "punish" button on new players. I do hope they release some hardcore content for vets (especially with railjack coming) but I don't think limiting the new player experience or locking them out is the way to go either. I personally feel the best way to kill a game, is to gimp it's growth. Sadly, one day the "vets" will move on...then what?

It's always good to give opinions, we are all bound to have different points of view 🙂

I think you are right with the random buffs.
While I've had a lot of fun with my friends (like three of us having suplementing frames buffed, Chroma, Nidus and Oberon for example, and being stupidly unkillable) they can make people go with the wrong frame for the mission.
I only choose the "wrong" frames when I go with my friends, like the other day I spent like 1:30 hour on a survival with Mirage of all things. But when I go with pugs, I will always use Oberon (with the augment) to try to keep them alive, or with a very defensive frame if its a defense.

I said in another comment, maybe if we just remove the revives on pugs and leave them on premades?

And for new players accesing everything part, I'll go with what I said in the OP.
It's really good to have something to work for as a new player.
I played a lot of MMOs (not saying I have all the right answers because of that, just that I've been a new player a LOT of times) and, to put an example, if I had straight access to the hardest content (like raids) then, why would I need to improve my builds or playstyle if they make them accesible to me?
And when you remove all the time it takes to understand the game (or even getting the items!), improve yourself and etc, you get to the wall a lot faster....and end up leaving, because you have nothing to do.
I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.
I'm not saying new players should be hit with the GIT GUD stick right on, but they should have something to work for

[bananacat89]

I find it way more fun with revives. It is really awesome and can get so hectic with two team members fighting hordes of mobs trying to revive our fallen comrades. I never liked the "every tenno for themselves nonsense" in the old arbi's. Did not feel like we were playing as a team. Now its way more team based. I have met a few friends as well in the new setup. So I say keep it as is. 

Edited September 21, 2019 by bananacat89
spelling

[Xerachiel]

hace 2 minutos, bananacat89 dijo:

I find it way more fun with revives. It is really awesome and can get so hectic with two team members fighting hordes of mobs trying to revive our fallen comrades. I never liked the "every tenno for themselves nonsense" in the old arbi's. Did not feel like we were playing as a team. Now its way more team based. I have met a few friends as well in the new setup. So I say keep it as is. Go solo if you don't want to rez people or get rezzed.  

I get your point.
So let's say we keep the revives. At least making the pick up optional?
And definitely make them a bit harder? When I play with my friends we usually just yawn and autoplay the first hour/hour and a half...

 

[Miser_able]

2 hours ago, Zekkii said:

Yesterday I died because during a melee finisher I clipped through the floor, fell through the map, and reappeared up top without the ability to move, shoot, or use any abilities.

Earlier today I failed a solo interception arby cause a grineer threw a grenade at me right as he despawnee at the end of the round, It oneshot me in between rounds. I failed and lost the reward for that rotation even though it told me what I got. 

[Miser_able]

I have an idea of a way to fix the revive system. Let us put our points in before we get to 5, so that multiple people CA pool together. If I have 3 and some other guy has 2, I walk up put in my 3 he puts in his 2 and boom revive. 

[Xerachiel]

hace 1 minuto, Miser_able dijo:

Earlier today I failed a solo interception arby cause a grineer threw a grenade at me right as he despawnee at the end of the round, It oneshot me in between rounds. I failed and lost the reward for that rotation even though it told me what I got. 

Yeah, bugs happens. I died countless times because I had equiped Exodia Contagion on my zaw and the game decided it should just the projectile without me aim gliding or even sometimes without double/bullet jumping

[Xerachiel]

hace 1 minuto, Miser_able dijo:

I have an idea of a way to fix the revive system. Let us put our points in before we get to 5, so that multiple people CA pool together. If I have 3 and some other guy has 2, I walk up put in my 3 he puts in his 2 and boom revive. 

That would be a good solution, but the rest remains, things like the game mode being kinda too easy...
Arbitrations should be the game mode where you bring your best setup, and even then, work to not die!
We spent so much time doing the maths for our builds, but in the end we never get to use them at their full potential...

[bananacat89]

33 minutes ago, Xerachiel said:

I get your point.
So let's say we keep the revives. At least making the pick up optional?
And definitely make them a bit harder? When I play with my friends we usually just yawn and autoplay the first hour/hour and a half...

 

I am fine with the way it is now. I actually think it would be more hectic if i had to stop over a drone token and actually pick it up. I am usually zooming all around like a nut when trying to pick up a drone thing. When your on wave 32 of survival, stopping and picking stuff up usually means  your tenno's life. I am all for giving it a go but i think that is kinda punishing players even more who want to help out there downed team mates. 

Since the recent update to Arbitrations this past week , I am actually having a lot of fun with it. Drones are everywhere now. Everyone loves those buggers because they drop Vita essence. It went from a boring slaughter fest where everyone hated seeing a drone, to people going in there to hunt em down and steal their loot. 

 As far as difficulty goes , well it seems like every other Warframe mission. It only gets hard after awhile. Maybe they could have Normal and Elite arbitration's like Onslaught or something.? I doubt they will do that though.  Seems like the majority want to get stuff done ASAP and fast. You got your zergers on one side Naruto running to the end and your Ninja's who want a challenge on the other side. This is something The devs have always had a problem dealing with and addressing properly. Their answer seems to be the longer you stay in, The harder it gets. This has always been a sour point in many Tenno's experience. For not everyone has 1 hour to burn just to get to the challenging content.  They could definitely solve this with adding a few higher starting level arbitration into the mix. That would still require waiting for people who want a challenge though.. So idk?

I am all for more tweaks. I think they have done a good job so far considering what it was 6 months ago. Only way to find out is to test it on the player base i guess. Eventually, hopefully they can find a perfect balance for everyone. 

Edited September 21, 2019 by bananacat89

[Xerachiel]

hace 2 minutos, bananacat89 dijo:

I am fine with the way it is now. I actually think it would be more hectic if i had to stop over a drone token and actually pick it up. I am usually zooming all around like a nut when trying to pick up a drone thing. When your on wave 32 of survival, stopping and picking stuff up usually means  your tenno's life. I am all for giving it a go but i think that is kinda punishing players even more who want to help out there downed team mates. 

Since the recent update to Arbitrations this past week , I am actually having a lot of fun with it. Drones are everywhere now. Everyone loves those buggers because they drop Vita essence. It went from a boring slaughter fest where everyone hated seeing a drone, to people going in there to hunt em down and steal their loot. 

 As far as difficulty goes , well it seems like every other Warframe mission. It only gets hard after awhile. Maybe they could have Normal and Elite arbitration's like Onslaught or something.? I doubt they will do that though.  Seems like the majority want to get stuff done ASAP and fast. You got your zergers on one side Naruto running to the end and your Ninja's who want a challenge on the other side. This is something The devs have always had a problem dealing with and addressing properly. Their answer seems to be the longer you stay in, The harder it gets. This has always been a sour point in many Tenno's experience. For not everyone has 1 hour to burn just to get to the challenging content.  They could definitely solve this with adding a few higher starting level arbitration into the mix. That would still require waiting for people who want a challenge though.. So idk?

Well you just said a really good idea: Elite Arbitrations! 
Make them start at lvl100 and no revives, while keeping the regular arbis for the people that wants to do them 🙂
 

[(PSN)Midcall]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb (XB1)ShadowBlood89:

so you want them to have it how it was like before?
as it used be you die you die an so after alot of players complaining about it they added in a system to allow you to revive a player if you want.
as it stands now you can pick if you want to revive the fallen player or not

Is it really a choice ? I did some arbitrations  and some MR 10 and lower joined. They died already after few minutes. I revive one time but then they get killed again even before first round ends. I do not wanna rez him. But since im picking up all those revive token by accident on a melee focus build, what can i do here?

[bananacat89]

1 minute ago, Xerachiel said:

Well you just said a really good idea: Elite Arbitrations! 
Make them start at lvl100 and no revives, while keeping the regular arbis for the people that wants to do them 🙂
 

 

Bring it on! 😛

[Xerachiel]

hace 1 minuto, (PS4)Midcall dijo:

Is it really a choice ? I did some arbitrations  and some MR 10 and lower joined. They died already after few minutes. I revive one time but then they get killed again even before first round ends. I do not wanna rez him. But since im picking up all those revive token by accident on a melee focus build, what can i do here?

Sadly you have no option. That's where my problem lies

Maybe if they would add kinda like an area around the dead player, idk, maybe a 15m wide circle, if you kill a dron there, they drop the thing, if you go to a different room, they dont drop them?

[nslay]

2 hours ago, Zekkii said:

Yesterday I died because during a melee finisher I clipped through the floor, fell through the map, and reappeared up top without the ability to move, shoot, or use any abilities.

Aren't you glad your allies can accidentally pickup revive tokens and be debuffed, thus motivating them to revive you fast or die themselves? After all, shame on you for not being super knowledgeable about some bug in the game/map that caused your death... everyone knows not do that obscure thing you did, newbie! Even the nastiest of elitist players won't ignore being gimped and will revive you rather being stupidly prideful.