DE, remove revives from Arbitrations

[Xerachiel]

It is time DE, if a new player wants to do arbitrations, then he should be prepared.
Imagine being a new player in a mmo and having inmediate access to the more "challenging" game mode of the game.
What's the point? What would I focus to improve? What's the goal I have to work to get to?

[VotumPrime]

I approve.

[AdunSaveMe]

Having revives in Arbitrations doesn't mean veterans are worthless to DE. And for the record, they don't have immediate access to it. Arbitrations aren't unlocked right away. You have to complete every node on the star chart to get them. Even a lot of veterans haven't done that.

Seems like you have a different focus for this topic than the one in your title. 

Edited September 20, 2019 by AdunSaveMe

[(XBOX)ShadowBlood89]

so you want them to have it how it was like before?
as it used be you die you die an so after alot of players complaining about it they added in a system to allow you to revive a player if you want.
as it stands now you can pick if you want to revive the fallen player or not

[Xerachiel]

hace 1 minuto, VotumPrime dijo:

I approve.

I'm not even a veteran (started march 2018), but I've been having pretty much nothing to do for months already, except for Nightwave, and that takes like 2 hours per week
 

[VotumPrime]

1 minute ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Having revives in Arbitrations doesn't mean veterans are worthless to DE.

Seems like you have a different focus for this topic than the one in your title. 

He wants it to be insanely hard so that people focus hard on not dying or he's having some horrible luck in the pub and ends up with people who die frequently, which also interferes with the progress of his farm. Right lad? @Xerachiel

Edited September 20, 2019 by VotumPrime

[Xerachiel]

hace 1 minuto, (XB1)ShadowBlood89 dijo:

so you want them to have it how it was like before?
as it used be you die you die an so after alot of players complaining about it they added in a system to allow you to revive a player if you want.
as it stands now you can pick if you want to revive the fallen player or not

Arbitrations should be challenging. They presented them as a "CHALLENGE FOR THE MOST PREPARED" on DevStream.
And then they reduced the starting lvl before launch, then they added the revives....
And btw, you WILL pick up the burdens either way, even if you don't care about reviving others, and they will punish you.
The burdens punish the ones that DON'T DIE, so they punish the players that took the time to prepare for doing the thing and not die.

How does that makes sense to you?

[Xerachiel]

hace 2 minutos, VotumPrime dijo:

He wants it to be insanely hard so that people focus hard on not dying or he's having some horrible luck in the pub and ends up with people who die frequently, which also interferes with the progress of his farm. Right lad? @Xerachiel

Arbitrations should be the game mode you have to prepare for. That's what they told us when they anounced them in a devstream

[Acersecomic]

2 minutes ago, Xerachiel said:

Arbitrations should be the game mode you have to prepare for. That's what they told us when they anounced them in a devstream

Well then prepare. Don't like someone being as pro as you? Quit the match, save everyone the trouble of dealing with you.

Or go play Sekiro, oh right, that has revives too.

[Xerachiel]

hace 5 minutos, AdunSaveMe dijo:

Having revives in Arbitrations doesn't mean veterans are worthless to DE. And for the record, they don't have immediate access to it. Arbitrations aren't unlocked right away. You have to complete every node on the star chart to get them. Even a lot of veterans haven't done that.

Seems like you have a different focus for this topic than the one in your title. 

You say that like it takes a lot of time to unlock every node.

And the focus is not that different from the title.
Revives in arbitrations are an example of DE catering to new players, wich is fine in itself (game needs new players all the time).
But the thing is...they only do things with that mentality.
When they introduced Fortuna, me and my friends had one of the more fun times playing, because the mobs scaled really fine and you had to actually play the game!
But then, they nerfed the hell out of it, because new players found it too hard....
Arbitrations, of all things, was advertised as something for experienced players...

[--DSP--Jetstream]

1 minute ago, Xerachiel said:

That's what they told us when they anounced them in a devstream

They say lots of things on devstream, many proven to be not true.

[Zekkii]

If you're not dying then arbitrations will be the same with or without revives.  You can even play solo and revives won't even exist.

[Rawbeard]

don't like revives? don't use revives.

[Xerachiel]

Justo ahora, Acersecomic dijo:

Well then prepare. Don't like someone being as pro as you? Quit the match, save everyone the trouble of dealing with you.

Or go play Sekiro, oh right, that has revives too.

I'm not even close to being a "pro" (whatever that is in a pve game) and I have died in arbitrations for bringing the wrong frame or things like that.
And that's alright, but I shouldn't punish the other players.

[YUNoJump]

I can agree with wanting a better system than the Burdens, where a player that dies a lot can annoy the other players, but the old system isn't good either. Warframe isn't really a game where you can fully control staying alive, people often complain about getting oneshot out of nowhere by snipers, or getting melted because their damage reduction ability went down for half a second, or any other number of things that can cause a surprise death. "No revives, you lose" after a cheap oneshot doesn't make people enjoy Arbitrations.

We need a third option, even if it's just the normal videogame system of "players automatically respawn after a minute or two but if everyone on the squad dies at once it's a failure". The two current options aren't really good enough.

[Xerachiel]

hace 6 minutos, Acersecomic dijo:

Well then prepare. Don't like someone being as pro as you? Quit the match, save everyone the trouble of dealing with you.

Or go play Sekiro, oh right, that has revives too.

But I'm playing Warframe, and also I don't care about From Soft games.
The thing is, they told us Arbitrations would be challenging. And they are not

[(PSN)Tomplexthis]

6 minutes ago, Xerachiel said:

I'm not even close to being a "pro" (whatever that is in a pve game) and I have died in arbitrations for bringing the wrong frame or things like that.
And that's alright, but I shouldn't punish the other players.

any frame with 300 hp is worthless in arbs. but i did 50 minutes in a infested survival arbitration, as Vauban. no death

lol

[Zekkii]

If anything revives make it more challenging, because now you have to play with health reductions, energy drain, and the constant complaints of overly demanding team mates.

[trst]

There are more reasons for someone dying in Arbitrations besides being inexperienced or unprepared. Certainly many people have had accidental deaths (or what could lead to one against higher levels) after taking a corner into an unseen Nullifier/Scrambus or one stray Scorpion/Ancient hook leading into being chain stunned.

Plus the old system also had the issue of hosts leaving after dying which would cause problems even if failed migrations didn't exist.

If you hate the system that much then don't use it, play solo or with others who you know/expect to be more prepared than an average pub player. And if it's supposed to be a mode you prepare for then prepare to have the burden points, several frames can exist perfectly fine holding onto them.

Or y'know, just revive the person after you happen to pick up five points. I never did pub Arbitrations before the update and never experienced the complaints people had with it, and now after running them solely in pubs I honestly don't see how they're as much of a burden as people claim they are.

[VotumPrime]

Just now, trst said:

There are more reasons for someone dying in Arbitrations besides being inexperienced or unprepared. Certainly many people have had accidental deaths (or what could lead to one against higher levels) after taking a corner into an unseen Nullifier/Scrambus or one stray Scorpion/Ancient hook leading into being chain stunned.

Plus the old system also had the issue of hosts leaving after dying which would cause problems even if failed migrations didn't exist.

If you hate the system that much then don't use it, play solo or with others who you know/expect to be more prepared than an average pub player. And if it's supposed to be a mode you prepare for then prepare to have the burden points, several frames can exist perfectly fine holding onto them.

Or y'know, just revive the person after you happen to pick up five points. I never did pub Arbitrations before the update and never experienced the complaints people had with it, and now after running them solely in pubs I honestly don't see how they're as much of a burden as people claim they are.

That might be true but accidental deaths are rare. They don't happen so early on in game.

[Zekkii]

2 minutes ago, trst said:

There are more reasons for someone dying in Arbitrations besides being inexperienced or unprepared.

Yesterday I died because during a melee finisher I clipped through the floor, fell through the map, and reappeared up top without the ability to move, shoot, or use any abilities.

[anonymous14z]

If I recall their points correctly, they didn't like the gameplay of die=worthless and decided that the dieees (if that's a word) didn't like essentially being stuck in a spectator mode for the rest of the match, and while this game-design succeeded in injecting "challenge" it had that heavy consequence it kinda ruined the "co-op" nature of the game a bit (by essentially deleting teammates).

I feel it's more of a problem of the devs lacking Creativity? when it comes to creating challenge, you can see this with the old raid system, where you had to do these convoluted challenges (like having all 8 members stand on buttons or the puzzle-fest of Jordas Verdict) that felt so out-of-place with warframe's current gameplay style (which seems to be a rush hoard shooter) that they usually feel compelled to alter these systems, or maybe it's the devs having to design a game with the players current power levels and gameplay feel in mind.

Personally, -after thinking about it for a few seconds- one of the couple? of gameplay challenge that the devs could inject into the game would be a kind of tough (think level 80+ battalysts) exterminate mission with a STRICT time limit, since you have a difficulty condition and a tough challenge that doesn't cause these horrible player-unfriendly outcomes (like perma death) to happen.

But that'll probably come with the "new war" event

I would like it if they got rid of some of the worst parts of this game design, I don't like playing specator mode.

I'm not sure about why the eidolons are "accepted" endgame content though, maybe the design philosophies are more in harmony with warframe's core?

[Xerachiel]

Justo ahora, trst dijo:

There are more reasons for someone dying in Arbitrations besides being inexperienced or unprepared. Certainly many people have had accidental deaths (or what could lead to one against higher levels) after taking a corner into an unseen Nullifier/Scrambus or one stray Scorpion/Ancient hook leading into being chain stunned.

Plus the old system also had the issue of hosts leaving after dying which would cause problems even if failed migrations didn't exist.

If you hate the system that much then don't use it, play solo or with others who you know/expect to be more prepared than an average pub player. And if it's supposed to be a mode you prepare for then prepare to have the burden points, several frames can exist perfectly fine holding onto them.

Or y'know, just revive the person after you happen to pick up five points. I never did pub Arbitrations before the update and never experienced the complaints people had with it, and now after running them solely in pubs I honestly don't see how they're as much of a burden as people claim they are.

I did play a lot of pub arbis, reviving players, but there's a point you start to notice people just don't give a crap about surviving.
I like playing pub! But I don't think I can do it now with arbis...
I have killed myself a lot of times with Exodia Contagion just randomly shooting when I melee in the air without even aiming, so I know it sucks. But you know why? I can deal with that crap. The times it happened to me I was like "well, #*!%, back to the ship!"
But it's different when the reason you die is because you got a bug or you were not paying attention, than when it's just because another player didn't care about building his frame for it.

Maybe they should just leave the revives for premades and remove them for party matching?

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

They should get rid of revives, but the downed player should have the option to return on the next round or five minute mark, they lose that reward for that round but they can now get back into the fight for the rest of the go...

Plus it might stave off the instant host migration so they can watch Netflix till the next round starts instead of crashing the game at the last possible moment...

[Xerachiel]

hace 9 minutos, (PS4)FriendSharkey dijo:

They should get rid of revives, but the downed player should have the option to return on the next round or five minute mark, they lose that reward for that round but they can now get back into the fight for the rest of the go...

Plus it might stave off the instant host migration so they can watch Netflix till the next round starts instead of crashing the game at the last possible moment...

Well that could work, so the one that dies actually gets punished and don't receive the reward for that rotation