wf energy HAS to change

[George_PPS]

5 hours ago, KIREEK said:

And if players keep outkilling you because they shoot faster than you. You going to demand the removal of bullets aswell?

The problem isn't saryn, you can outkill, help and do other things with other warframes, provided that YOU place the proper care and effort. As much as i would like to agree with you, i've reached a point a long time ago where no change is a problem, no nerf is to big, no complaint will ever change the reality of the game, and that reality is......

Some players are better than you, regardless of what they decide to use.

And yes the game rewards that effort, so instead of complaining, work towards being better.

Most nerfers are asking DE to nerf OTHERS most used items, weapons, powers, warframes, Rivens, whatever so they can get more kills. It's not a good trend. 

[George_PPS]

4 hours ago, FlyingDice said:

Imagine thinking that pizzas are the cause of power creep in 2019. You're years behind the times, focus tree energy regen + Arcane Energize are the main problem now, not EV+pizzas.

Energy regen and Energlize are working the way they are supposed to work. It's normal. You are not forced to equip or use them. 

[George_PPS]

13 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:

I used to rail hard on fixing the energy economy, but after playing some of the newer Warframes, I'm kinda seeing that DE has moved away from looking at energy itself and has decided instead to create Warframes that are balanced around the assumption that energy is hilariously abundant. 

Like take Gauss, for example. He's designed to be using abilities all the time, and it makes his gameplay really fast paced and frantic. But on the flip side, there isn't really anything you can do with his kit to break down the fundamental gameplay of Warframe, even if you had absolutely limitless energy. Thermal Sunder can nuke, but it has a really small radius and is centered around where you are, so you can't exactly wipe maps with it without a ton of effort. 

Chroma is kind of in a similar boat, because the only thing you can do with limitless energy on Chroma is sustain your buffs forever, which you could do even in a version of the game with relatively scarce energy given sufficient duration. 

Saryn, on the other hand, doesn't need a huge amount of energy to be problematic, because her design is fundamentally unhealthy to the game. She thrives much more on the infinite scaling damage of Spores, the lack of LoS restrictions, and Overextended than she does on the energy economy. She kills enemies without interacting with them, which breaks the core gameplay loop of Warframe. 

So long story short, I don't think that making energy incredibly abundant is inherently overpowered, as long as the Warframes are appropriately designed to accommodate this abundance. Unlimited energy breaks a few Warframes (Volt with a Discharge build is an example), but the Warframes that become overpowered with limitless energy have an unhealthy and uninteractive design to begin with. 

Agree with you that energy should be abundant for most abilities.

However on Saryn, you are only partially correct. She is only good at certain missions and needs a LOT of enemies for her abilities to work well. If there aren't many enemies, she is not that good of a frame. She is a specialist, a good specialist frame. That different frames are good at CERTAIN but not all mission types is a great design. If you take away and kill some frames that are good at some missions one at a time, the game will be ruined. 

We enjoy power and can inflict huge amount of damages on different enemies, killing most of them fast; this is Warframe. 

[Gurpgork]

5 minutes ago, George_PPS said:

She is only good at certain missions and needs a LOT of enemies for her abilities to work well.

That doesn't change my complaint with Saryn, which is that she can kill enemies without interacting with them. A Saryn player doesn't even have to be aware that a group of enemies has spawned to kill them. Even if it doesn't work in all missions, that isn't a healthy design. 

I don't want to turn this into a Saryn thread, but the problem with Saryn isn't really about power. It's that she diminishes gameplay and removes interactivity from the game for her whole squad. I don't really care that she's powerful, because everything is OP in this game--that's sort of the point. What I do take issue with is unhealthy design, and Saryn is patient zero of unhealthy design in 2019's Warframe. 

[844448]

Well OP, try playing your best build without equipping energy restore and zenurik. Try it in group or solo and see how well you can play without that infinite energy

[(NSW)Austee]

On 2019-10-26 at 5:07 AM, mraz641 said:

im not demanding

 

Titles the thread with,

 

“wf energy HAS to change” 

 

Sounds pretty demanding to me. But maybe that’s just me. 

 

 

[CuChulainnWD]

On 2019-10-25 at 6:29 AM, mraz641 said:

spamming pizzas and having infinite energy is basicly cheating. if warframe energy is rechargable like operator energy then saryn couldn't spam that fast her abilities and power creep overall would lessen in the game.

You're worried about Saryn spamming? You do realise that using her 1 and 3 is far more efficient and deadly than the miasma spam? The game is a power fantasy, and DE has given everyone multiple means of power regeneration, and just like the dreaded nullifiers, they have means of taking energy away just as fast (Looking at you infested parasites)

[CuChulainnWD]

1 hour ago, Gurpgork said:

That doesn't change my complaint with Saryn, which is that she can kill enemies without interacting with them. A Saryn player doesn't even have to be aware that a group of enemies has spawned to kill them. Even if it doesn't work in all missions, that isn't a healthy design. 

I don't want to turn this into a Saryn thread, but the problem with Saryn isn't really about power. It's that she diminishes gameplay and removes interactivity from the game for her whole squad. I don't really care that she's powerful, because everything is OP in this game--that's sort of the point. What I do take issue with is unhealthy design, and Saryn is patient zero of unhealthy design in 2019's Warframe. 

You would not have an issue with Saryn if she was played with spores and toxic lash. You do not need power strength to have her destroy maps, just a simple Blind Rage is all you need. However, using her spores with Toxic lash means EVERYONE can go to town, especially with melee. ESO is a prime example of such, she is a very interactive frame when played this way, whilst owning the miasma  builds. You do not need miasma. Use it for emergency area clearance only, such as when a player is downed, even then it is meh.

[JackHargreav]

I would say we don't need energy orbs. Just give us energy regen and that's it.

I mean what's the point of these rng based energy orbs if we can counter that with rage, zenurik and whatever else?

[fatpig84]

If you want cool downs and limited energy ? Well play Destiny 2.

Even then it reaches a point where I have so many masterwork weapons that drop light orbs / energy orbs on multi-kills that I can safely ignore cool down duration on my abilities. Then add mods like melee kills restoring like 1/4 to 1/3 your power bar and cool down suddenly matters less.

But at least I need to kill a bunch of thrash in between to power up. But if that is what you want, then play Destiny 2.

Mass Effect games relied on the cool down system but it was thoroughly shredded anyway by good players.
I mean they brought the cool down of spam abilities to 1 to 2 seconds with careful manipulation of mechanics, which is nearly no different from warframe.
Heck good Vanguard players don't even shoot their guns once.

So honestly, they are already out there, just not warframe, you can try those.

Edited October 28, 2019 by fatpig84

[T.Hoagie]

3 hours ago, fatpig84 said:

If you want cool downs and limited energy ? Well play Destiny 2.

Even then it reaches a point where I have so many masterwork weapons that drop light orbs / energy orbs on multi-kills that I can safely ignore cool down duration on my abilities. Then add mods like melee kills restoring like 1/4 to 1/3 your power bar and cool down suddenly matters less.

But at least I need to kill a bunch of thrash in between to power up. But if that is what you want, then play Destiny 2.

Mass Effect games relied on the cool down system but it was thoroughly shredded anyway by good players.
I mean they brought the cool down of spam abilities to 1 to 2 seconds with careful manipulation of mechanics, which is nearly no different from warframe.
Heck good Vanguard players don't even shoot their guns once.

So honestly, they are already out there, just not warframe, you can try those.

Can confirm, my default Soldier and the other version never had to use ammo. I could just ultra spam their knock down rocket cause I tweaked his build for it.

[zruncho]

1. Rework or remove energy operator tree;

2. Remove energy pizza;

3. Rework Trinity;

4. Make enemies have higher chance to drop energy orbs if you kill them through the weak spot; Or think of another way for players to generate energy through being active and playing well. Cool down based system for some frames might be good as well.

5. Remove the ability of the operator to fly so there is a point of doing parkour.

6. Enjoy the ensuing meltdown. 

[Aazhyd]

Who usez energy pizza's anyway? Probably only a small section of veteran players. It isn't a problem to 99% of the players.

[fatpig84]

1 hour ago, Aazhyd said:

Who usez energy pizza's anyway? Probably only a small section of veteran players. It isn't a problem to 99% of the players.

Who uses energy pizza when there is arcane energize ?

[Chappie]

4 minutes ago, fatpig84 said:

Who uses energy pizza when there is arcane energize ?

When I don't want to put flow on a frame even though I have energize.   Tough balance sometimes...so I pull out my final crutch cauz I didn't getz gud.

[844448]

16 minutes ago, fatpig84 said:

Who uses energy pizza when there is arcane energize ?

Who uses arcane energize when there is nezha with maximum efficiency?

[(XBOX)WolfKingLeo]

arent you nerfing your abilities as well? I mean think about what you are saying. If you nerf it to a point where energy becomes hard to get, or barely getting energy, then you are making it hard to even use our abilities of that warframe.

[Daziri]

7 hours ago, Gurpgork said:

She thrives much more on the infinite scaling damage of Spores, the lack of LoS restrictions, and Overextended than she does on the energy economy. She kills enemies without interacting with them, which breaks the core gameplay loop of Warframe.

 

Holy mother of Void you really hate her. To my point:

She doesn't kill enemies without interacting them. That's pure bs. She has to actively spread spores to kill enemies. In low-level, she does what you said but this game isn't about low level enemies.

As a Saryn enthusiast since 2015 it really saddens me that alot people hold her so infamous for the potent power she has (which requires time to build up)

 

Also I don't know why, but lately people are starting to complain about everything. Where is this coming from? This game isn't a MOBA so mentioning terms like powercreep would be dumb. Back in 2015-2017 all was fine, barely no complains. The most ridiculous thing I saw in forums was this on top with the "fulmin nerf".

 

Warframes are not masters of arms and blades. They are also masters of themselves (powers). Warframes are basically demigods, they are supposed to feel powerful against enemies.

 

Edited October 28, 2019 by Daziri
Added the last comment.

[(PSN)tissot555]

On 2019-10-25 at 6:29 AM, mraz641 said:

spamming pizzas and having infinite energy is basicly cheating. if warframe energy is rechargable like operator energy then saryn couldn't spam that fast her abilities and power creep overall would lessen in the game.

People like you trip me out me, man. Why in the world would you want to be able to use awesome powers less? Here's the deal, this just isnt that type of game. 

There are games were it's mostly gun combat and every now and then you get a "super" ability. If you want that, invest your time in another game. Otherwise play solo or find friends that dont use nuke frames. 

 

[(XBOX)WolfKingLeo]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)tissot555 said:

People like you trip me out me, man. Why in the world would you want to be able to use awesome powers less? Here's the deal, this just isnt that type of game. 

There are games were it's mostly gun combat and every now and then you get a "super" ability. If you want that, invest your time in another game. Otherwise play solo or find friends that dont use nuke frames. 

 

I agree, they should move on to another game if they acted like this

[WoodedSkate89]

On 2019-10-25 at 11:29 AM, mraz641 said:

spamming pizzas and having infinite energy is basicly cheating.

Agreed, but thats more of an anti-energy pad nerf than an energy rework

On 2019-10-25 at 11:29 AM, mraz641 said:

if warframe energy is rechargable like operator energy then saryn couldn't spam that fast her abilities and power creep overall would lessen in the game.

Trinity's 2 would need a rework then, same with any other energy recharge ability. Like limbo's passive, etc.

I honestly have no problem with warframe's energy system. 

[mraz641]

4 hours ago, WoodedSkate89 said:

Agreed, but thats more of an anti-energy pad nerf than an energy rework

Trinity's 2 would need a rework then, same with any other energy recharge ability. Like limbo's passive, etc.

I honestly have no problem with warframe's energy system. 

i wrote how trinity should be reworked, anyways i'm open for suggestions 🙂

[(PSN)Mono-Pop]

On 2019-10-25 at 6:36 PM, (NSW)Sk0rp1on said:

Meh. Energy pads take resources though. Strategies like this are traditional in games and I’m ok with that. It’s like bringing 1000 health potions in Diablo and spamming heal. It’s boring, but its not really hurting anyone.

And it was changed, years ago. It was unhealthy for the game and changed how people played. It changed what builds are viable.

 

The example you use is in fact condemnation of the idea you are trying to support.

Edited October 28, 2019 by (PS4)Mono-Pop

[ILOHARTA]

On 2019-10-27 at 9:31 PM, ant99999 said:

Unmodded, my bad, that was your proposed condition. Now the point is valid.

it never will, because of armor/health innate advantage of Chroma. But let's not go offtopic, it becomes boring after a while and we are already past that point

[WoodedSkate89]

6 hours ago, mraz641 said:

i wrote how trinity should be reworked, anyways i'm open for suggestions 🙂

Sorry it wasnt in the opening post, and I didnt read the other 4 pages