Melee X.something - Pro Gamer Move Example

[Toran]

Pro Gamer = that dude with the hat

Warframes are tools of mass destruction, nobody stops to dissect a single enemy with fancy looking but inefficient moves.

The whole game economy is based on shredding thousands of mindless enemies. Typical Exterminate mission: "Kill 234 enemies" not "Kill 5 guys in the most stylish way possible".

We already have tons of very cool looking melee moves. Does anybody use them? Hell, no!

"But that's because of Maiming Strike!" Wrong! It's because Maiming Strike is the most efficient!

Melee 3.0 won't change that player attitude. When Maiming Strike is maimed, we will pick the next better. Saryn, Mesa, badass guns, whatever it takes to dispose quickly of those hundreds and thousands of enemies.

"Why not cherish the moment?" Because it's not worth it! It's a grind & farm game. Warframe is no whole food market, it's an industrial slaughterhouse and we're the fury that kills Fury!

I'd love to be proven wrong, but I expect Melee X.something to be a waste of energy that should have been invested in designing a bit more dedicated gameplay. They better dial up the base melee damage hard.

 

 

Edited October 25, 2019 by Toran

[Miser_able]

40 minutes ago, Toran said:

Pro Gamer = that dude with the hat

Shame on you. 

[(NSW)Sk0rp1on]

Looks like it’s time for an Unranked Skana Starchart Run.

[Teljaxx]

I have been seeing this mentality a lot lately. "DE shouldn't fix X, because Y will just replace it." Powers replaced by melee, melee replaced by guns, Etc. This is no excuse. Not fixing one problem because it might reveal another problem ultimately solves nothing.

If DE ever wants to create any sort of decent balance in this game, there will inevitably be meta shifts in the process. Sure, this means that there will be a ton of people complaining that their favorite OP god killer got nerfed. But its better than the alternative, where the game becomes even less balanced due to rampant unchecked powercreep, and the meta shifts anyway.

[Toran]

vor 18 Stunden schrieb Miser_able:

Shame on you. 

Shame... must be one of the new resources for the next big update...

 

vor 17 Stunden schrieb Teljaxx:

I have been seeing this mentality a lot lately. "DE shouldn't fix X, because Y will just replace it." Powers replaced by melee, melee replaced by guns, Etc. This is no excuse. Not fixing one problem because it might reveal another problem ultimately solves nothing.

If DE ever wants to create any sort of decent balance in this game, there will inevitably be meta shifts in the process. Sure, this means that there will be a ton of people complaining that their favorite OP god killer got nerfed. But its better than the alternative, where the game becomes even less balanced due to rampant unchecked powercreep, and the meta shifts anyway.

This mentality is about 6 years old...welcome to the party. I like how Borderlands 3 treats balance... they don't give a F. The only balance DE has to care about is economy and possible exploits.

I don't see any improvement in the next step unless they keep up the damage, all the current demo videos of Melee 3.0 aren't impressive at all. If combat doesn't flow like four Batman clones go havoc, people will drop it fast. Warframe offers too many ways to go totally nuts, spin to kill is but one of many. And I don't see why they're so concerned about the scalability of melee... it's not like you're getting more or better resources from L300 than from L40 mobs.

The only time in the last 6 years where I saw actual challenge was in the first few months... no demigods around, your arsenal sucked, you had to coordinate roles with your mates, every headshot counted. DE better invest their time in a very restrictive game mode, where skill is the main currency. I don't have that hope for railjack when I see all the upgrades again... boost it till it becomes boring...

 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

fun fact about the Indiana jones scene:

Spoiler

the original scene was supposed to be an elaborate and fantastic melee fight of Whip vs Sword, but on the day of filming, Harrison Ford was suffering from Dysentery. he felt sick as a dog, and didn't have the energy for the full fight scene, so he pulled his prop gun out and "shot" the Swordsman. the actor who played the Swordsman went along with it, and the director decided to keep the scene in the film. the whole thing was improvised!

on topic, to me, melee is a choice. yes guns are more efficient by nature: why get up close when you can press a button to kill from afar, but as anyone who uses melee a lot will tell you, chopping dudes up with flashy moves is it's own reward. there's a unique satisfaction to using it, and if you don't get that feeling, well... stick to guns, I suppose. but don't dismiss other people's choice if they want to be a walking blender. I play solo mostly so I go at my own pace without worrying about "muh efficiency".

[Teljaxx]

3 hours ago, Toran said:

This mentality is about 6 years old...welcome to the party. I like how Borderlands 3 treats balance... they don't give a F. The only balance DE has to care about is economy and possible exploits.

I don't see any improvement in the next step unless they keep up the damage, all the current demo videos of Melee 3.0 aren't impressive at all. If combat doesn't flow like four Batman clones go havoc, people will drop it fast. Warframe offers too many ways to go totally nuts, spin to kill is but one of many. And I don't see why they're so concerned about the scalability of melee... it's not like you're getting more or better resources from L300 than from L40 mobs.

The only time in the last 6 years where I saw actual challenge was in the first few months... no demigods around, your arsenal sucked, you had to coordinate roles with your mates, every headshot counted. DE better invest their time in a very restrictive game mode, where skill is the main currency. I don't have that hope for railjack when I see all the upgrades again... boost it till it becomes boring...

Yeah, i know this mentality is nothing new. But I have been seeing it pop up much more frequently lately. And it is just as unhelpful as ever.

Borderlands is actually extremely well balanced, especially compared to Warframe. That's why it doesn't have one singular, overwhelmingly popular meta. Its also a big part of why its gameplay is so much more engaging than Warframe's.

One of the main reasons that Borderlands is so nicely balanced, is because the developers obviously had a clear idea of how progression should work, and set a specific end game point right from the very beginning. This gave them a nice solid framework to fit everything into. DE, on the other hand, has simply thrown crazy idea after crazy idea into an amorphous pile, and called it a game. This has created a series of ever changing dominant strategies. And when you try to take out the current one, you just find another one underneath. If they ever want to fix everything, they will have to dig all the way down to the very bottom.

So it doesn't really matter what the current meta is. The real problem is that DE never actually fixes any of them, they just replace them with a new one each time. It will take a massive amount of work for them to ever balance this game, because it is almost entirely made of imbalanced systems stacked on top of each other. And they just keep adding to the pile.

[YazMatazO]

Pro gamer and Warframe. 

That kinda makes me chuckle a bit. 

[Toran]

vor 19 Stunden schrieb Teljaxx:

Yeah, i know this mentality is nothing new. But I have been seeing it pop up much more frequently lately. And it is just as unhelpful as ever.

Borderlands is actually extremely well balanced, especially compared to Warframe. That's why it doesn't have one singular, overwhelmingly popular meta. Its also a big part of why its gameplay is so much more engaging than Warframe's.

One of the main reasons that Borderlands is so nicely balanced, is because the developers obviously had a clear idea of how progression should work, and set a specific end game point right from the very beginning. This gave them a nice solid framework to fit everything into. DE, on the other hand, has simply thrown crazy idea after crazy idea into an amorphous pile, and called it a game. This has created a series of ever changing dominant strategies. And when you try to take out the current one, you just find another one underneath. If they ever want to fix everything, they will have to dig all the way down to the very bottom.

So it doesn't really matter what the current meta is. The real problem is that DE never actually fixes any of them, they just replace them with a new one each time. It will take a massive amount of work for them to ever balance this game, because it is almost entirely made of imbalanced systems stacked on top of each other. And they just keep adding to the pile.

And they don't necessarily have to.All they have to do is bring up one game mode, that doesn't allow for near limitless improvements. Play demigod in the current world and test your hard skills in the other mode. But I doubt they will ever go that step. With 26+ million registered losers, they will have to keep accessibility in mind. Railjack could become such a thing, but a glance at the mod slots for the ship tells me otherwise.

vor 18 Stunden schrieb YazMatazO:

Pro gamer and Warframe. 

That kinda makes me chuckle a bit. 

I was quoting the orignal dev post showing the dev doing his pro moves on a helpless Grineer grunt on the plains of Eidolon. In Warframe, only beginners have to play like pros (unless they got otherworldly company).

vor 22 Stunden schrieb (PS4)robotwars7:

fun fact about the Indiana jones scene:

  Inhalt unsichtbar machen

the original scene was supposed to be an elaborate and fantastic melee fight of Whip vs Sword, but on the day of filming, Harrison Ford was suffering from Dysentery. he felt sick as a dog, and didn't have the energy for the full fight scene, so he pulled his prop gun out and "shot" the Swordsman. the actor who played the Swordsman went along with it, and the director decided to keep the scene in the film. the whole thing was improvised!

on topic, to me, melee is a choice. yes guns are more efficient by nature: why get up close when you can press a button to kill from afar, but as anyone who uses melee a lot will tell you, chopping dudes up with flashy moves is it's own reward. there's a unique satisfaction to using it, and if you don't get that feeling, well... stick to guns, I suppose. but don't dismiss other people's choice if they want to be a walking blender. I play solo mostly so I go at my own pace without worrying about "muh efficiency".

Thanks for the info, I love little details like that, the scene worked like a charm and perfectly nailed Indy's character. 😄

[(PSN)R3N36AD3]

On 2019-10-25 at 8:01 AM, Toran said:

Pro Gamer = that dude with the hat

Aren't they all wearing hats, though?

[(PSN)DidacoJack]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)R3N36AD3 said:

Aren't they all wearing hats, though?

It's a turban. Does it count as a hat? 

Btw, Indie is not the pro gamer in that gif, he's just the tryhard who never misses a jump on the meta bandwagon. 

For obvious reasons that gif doesn't show it, but in the next scene he's crying and swearing because of the catchmoon nerfs. 

[Teridax68]

The wording in the OP is perhaps not the clearest on this, but I can agree that Warframe is a game where we kill enemies pretty quickly, rather than one where we stylishly juggle enemies DMC-style. Thus, I think the new juggling mechanics feel a bit wasteful, especially if we're still going to be dealing too much damage for them to come into play.

[HugintheCrow]

4 hours ago, (PS4)DidacoJack said:

not the pro gamer in that gif, he's just the tryhard who never misses a jump on the meta bandwagon. 

So, he's a pro gamer? Being pro in games generally involves playing to win, using most meta strategies.

Now, obviously, Warframe has no esports, so you literally cannot be pro at Warframe.

[(PSN)DidacoJack]

20 minutes ago, HugintheCrow said:

So, he's a pro gamer? Being pro in games generally involves playing to win, using most meta strategies.

Now, obviously, Warframe has no esports, so you literally cannot be pro at Warframe.

Well, you also must have manual skills and a good brain to be a pro gamer.

Anyone can put together a cookie cutter build, only skilled people can make it work at full potential.

That's why I made that joke, since there's basically no personal skill requirement in this game, anyone can pull the trick on that gif. 

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

23 hours ago, ChaosSabre said:

Well sword dude was using a bad build. Super squishy but still wanted to go melee.

Pick a tanky frame and you can just flail your giant range riven plus p reach weapons and everything dies.

You can already see that with a hold forward plus e thicc stick wukong.

You won't even need energy pizzas.

Sword dude played a sqish and wasn’t invis or have any of his abilities up. Probably a leech eximus around so he couldn’t pop anything. Pro dude took advantage of cool sword guy not having any energy and not tuning zenurik smh. Pro guy is a loser for thinking he’s cooler or better

[Renegade343]

On 2019-10-25 at 11:44 AM, (NSW)Sk0rp1on said:

Looks like it’s time for an Unranked Skana Starchart Run.

So, basically complete it without ever letting the Skana gain affinity?

Interesting.

[(PSN)ChaosTheNerd]

On 2019-10-26 at 9:57 AM, Teljaxx said:

Yeah, i know this mentality is nothing new. But I have been seeing it pop up much more frequently lately. And it is just as unhelpful as ever.

Borderlands is actually extremely well balanced, especially compared to Warframe. That's why it doesn't have one singular, overwhelmingly popular meta. Its also a big part of why its gameplay is so much more engaging than Warframe's.

One of the main reasons that Borderlands is so nicely balanced, is because the developers obviously had a clear idea of how progression should work, and set a specific end game point right from the very beginning. This gave them a nice solid framework to fit everything into. DE, on the other hand, has simply thrown crazy idea after crazy idea into an amorphous pile, and called it a game. This has created a series of ever changing dominant strategies. And when you try to take out the current one, you just find another one underneath. If they ever want to fix everything, they will have to dig all the way down to the very bottom.

So it doesn't really matter what the current meta is. The real problem is that DE never actually fixes any of them, they just replace them with a new one each time. It will take a massive amount of work for them to ever balance this game, because it is almost entirely made of imbalanced systems stacked on top of each other. And they just keep adding to the pile.

This x100000000 ------^

[(NSW)Sk0rp1on]

3 hours ago, Renegade343 said:

So, basically complete it without ever letting the Skana gain affinity?

Interesting.

Wait... I actually meant un modded, not un ranked.

An actual, serious challenge would be doing the starchart with just the beginning weapons.

[George_PPS]

On 2019-10-25 at 8:01 AM, Toran said:

Pro Gamer = that dude with the hat

Warframes are tools of mass destruction, nobody stops to dissect a single enemy with fancy looking but inefficient moves.

The whole game economy is based on shredding thousands of mindless enemies. Typical Exterminate mission: "Kill 234 enemies" not "Kill 5 guys in the most stylish way possible".

We already have tons of very cool looking melee moves. Does anybody use them? Hell, no!

"But that's because of Maiming Strike!" Wrong! It's because Maiming Strike is the most efficient!

Melee 3.0 won't change that player attitude. When Maiming Strike is maimed, we will pick the next better. Saryn, Mesa, badass guns, whatever it takes to dispose quickly of those hundreds and thousands of enemies.

"Why not cherish the moment?" Because it's not worth it! It's a grind & farm game. Warframe is no whole food market, it's an industrial slaughterhouse and we're the fury that kills Fury!

I'd love to be proven wrong, but I expect Melee X.something to be a waste of energy that should have been invested in designing a bit more dedicated gameplay. They better dial up the base melee damage hard.

 

 

Melee base damage is dialed up like 300% but the nerfs on all Mods indicate a reduction of at least 100,000% times or more to the maximum damage potential of the current melee system. The new melee will be flashy but a lot less efficient. It will be DOA. The nerfing trend of Warframe’s damage system is not Warframe. Whey is DE nerfing everything in the name of pseudo balance?