Please DONT change the grendel missions

[98Octane]

well am too lazy to get all the 75 vitus, should have have done when they had 50% drop.. bugger, but dont think it wud be  that difficult. saryn+trinity+frost will still melt them  since auguments are working

[Jeger_Wulfe]

12 minutes ago, 98Octane said:

well am too lazy to get all the 75 vitus, should have have done when they had 50% drop.. bugger, but dont think it wud be  that difficult. saryn+trinity+frost will still melt them  since auguments are working

Adverse to doing it as a team? Only three members of the team need keys (one for each mission). Each of those three need 25 essence. The fourth needs none at all. 

[98Octane]

3 minutes ago, Jeger_Wulfe said:

Adverse to doing it as a team? Only three members of the team need keys (one for each mission). Each of those three need 25 essence. The fourth needs none at all. 

oh didnt know that thanx

[xRufus7x]

So I just soloed the defense. I spent a few hours yesterday figuring out what would work and beat it this morning. I got to say, it was a lot of fun. Frustrating at times sure but testing gear and frames that I might not use otherwise and coming up with solutions without just looking on the wiki or youtube was challenging. Combine that with actual difficulty where I had to manage my health, shields and energy and actually be wary of enemies I enjoyed it a lot. Not to mention the thrill of using my last revive on the start of the last wave and managing to pull it out. Warframe rarely has these moments of personal victory in the late game. Things like the first time you beat each of the now defunked Raids or solo your first Profit taker or a treidelon or get the Prodman poster. Challenges that require you to leave your standard gear behind and purpose build to complete a challenge and the sense of satisfaction that comes with that. Thank you DE for giving me one of those ever rarer moments. 

 

Edit: Finished the survival and excavation solo. As expected, both were easier then the defense but the Survival was a bit harder then I thought it would be as I tried avoiding combat initially when I should have been playing more agressively. Excavation was basically just a walking simulator with Limbo. A bit time consuming but by far the easiest of the three as you make progress towards completion even if you don't save the excavators. All in all, I enjoyed the Defense and Survival because they presented challenges you needed to overcome with knowledge of your frames and weapons and by adjusting your playstyle accordingly. Same can't be said for Excavation though, that one is strictly about survival as long as you are patient and surviving by itself isn't very difficult.

 

Edited November 7, 2019 by xRufus7x

[Nothingface]

The Cryotic mission is fine, didn't bug me much.

The high level survival mission is BALLZ hard without an organized group, but setting that up is fun in its own way. However i can understand folks wanting to solo it hating it a LOT. Also it drags on a little. Would recommend shortening it a bit.

The defence is... well... Boring as balls. If you have the group comp it's easy with little actual challenge, and it takes FOREVER... i would shorten this one a LOT. At least the survival was chaotic and entertaining to a degree. The defense was just a slog.

Edited November 2, 2019 by Nothingface

[98Octane]

1 hour ago, xRufus7x said:

So I just soloed the defense. I spent a few hours yesterday figuring out what would work and beat it this morning. I got to say, it was a lot of fun. Frustrating at times sure but testing gear and frames that I might not use otherwise and coming up with solutions without just looking on the wiki or youtube was challenging. Combine that with actual difficulty where I had to manage my health, shields and energy and actually be wary of enemies I enjoyed it a lot. Not to mention the thrill of using my last revive on the start of the last wave and managing to pull it out. Warframe rarely has these moments of personal victory in the late game. Things like the first time you beat each of the now defunked Raids or solo your first Profit taker or a treidelon or get the Prodman poster. Challenges that require you to leave your standard gear behind and purpose build to complete a challenge and the sense of satisfaction that comes with that. Thank you DE for giving me one of those ever rarer moments. 

i understand, and kudos to you for that i will probably cheese it since, my day job gives enough stress as it is, here i have the laid back approach, for challenge i just go some pvp games :P

[Monolake]

Soloed them all - survival was pretty easy and fun, def is just same routine x15 padded with time (and killing final 'bosses' took forever lol) and the excavation was a chore because there are no carrier spawns and protecting a drill alone is harder - most of them died at ~60% so I regret wasting time on it. Survival will play again.

Spoiler

https://i.imgur.com/1p6myb6.jpg

I like the rare challenge, most of WF is extremely boring waitwalls with barely any gameplay. But this mission is not a good design - just blindly disabling all the mods and extra gear is bad idea, making most of the arsenal completely useless while few frames can beat it no problem, this is not the way to go.

As far as obtaining a frame this is FAR better way than grinding boring easy missions for some 10% chance. This is actually you winning and getting the prize, not just slogging thru trivial waitwalls and hoping RNG grants you the reward you need,

Edited November 3, 2019 by Monolake

[xRufus7x]

4 hours ago, 98Octane said:

i understand, and kudos to you for that i will probably cheese it since, my day job gives enough stress as it is, here i have the laid back approach, for challenge i just go some pvp games 😛

I mean, if you don't like it you can just trade for plat and buy him from the market. 

[Flameduel]

On 2019-11-01 at 8:36 AM, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

You’re insane.

Nothing about those missions look remotely fun. If they don’t change the mission I’m not going to farm him and I’m not going to support DE by buying him if they just intend to do crap like this now.

I am sorry you have opinions like this, I understand how it might be unfair to co-operate with people to plan out a mission instead of over powering the enemies in a way that warframe used to do where teamwork matters and does not anymore. However, if you remove your one single mindset for a moment and try it with friends by actually planning and focusing, it is a fun, invigorating, and exciting when you beat it *as a team* unlike most other frames where you are just passing the time for when luck is in favor for you. I am sorry you prefer RNG to get your items over Skill.

[Flameduel]

But enough of my joking from the post above, I heard people talking about how 9999 is not as easy as killing 250 enemies, but the problem is, they kind of are. There was an event back in older days of warframe (so we still did not some of the power creep stuff we have now) where they did an event where after enemy was like 5k to 9999 or something like that, and for the most part all the enemies were just as kill able from each other, while yes it was a case of waiting longer for them to die, Trinity could just kill them with a little patience and it was the case where the team comp was 4 trinities. So 250 and 9999 are just as kill able with mods, the difference here is these now level 40-60 enemies with no mods where you need to co-operate with your team, and it is a lot of fun to go through the challenge. if it was a case where Grendel was a chance to drop sure, I see your point, but you only need to do each once. and think of it like this, this is the most NEW PLAYER FRIENDLY challenge we had in this game just because a new player's trash build is the same as a vet. Since we can be taxi'd, it is honestly a challenge a new player can do, they don't need pro builds, they just need the tools.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

20 minutes ago, Flameduel said:

I am sorry you have opinions like this, I understand how it might be unfair to co-operate with people to plan out a mission instead of over powering the enemies in a way that warframe used to do where teamwork matters and does not anymore. However, if you remove your one single mindset for a moment and try it with friends by actually planning and focusing, it is a fun, invigorating, and exciting when you beat it *as a team* unlike most other frames where you are just passing the time for when luck is in favor for you. I am sorry you prefer RNG to get your items over Skill.

There’s nothing skill based about these missions. It’s still the same ole “Find the meta build and go” situation. Except in this case it’s more “find the meta build and pray that you’re lucky enough to survive”. And why is it ok that these missions are pretty much squad mandatory when even mission like Interception can be done solo. We don’t all have friends that are reliably online, on Warframe, all the time, and competent clan/alliance members that can be called upon when needed. Sometimes we can only rely on ourselves.

A good challenge should be like climbing a mountain. It’s challenging but doable. And becomes easier with experience and the right tools. Missions like the ones to get Grendel are like climbing a 90 degree wall of ice covered in Teflon and all you have to climb it is a toothpick. Literally impossible and should never be attempted by any self respecting human being.

 

[Flameduel]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

There’s nothing skill based about these missions. It’s still the same ole “Find the meta build and go” situation. Except in this case it’s more “find the meta build and pray that you’re lucky enough to survive”. And why is it ok that these missions are pretty much squad mandatory when even mission like Interception can be done solo. We don’t all have friends that are reliably online, on Warframe, all the time, and competent clan/alliance members that can be called upon when needed. Sometimes we can only rely on ourselves.

A good challenge should be like climbing a mountain. It’s challenging but doable. And becomes easier with experience and the right tools. Missions like the ones to get Grendel are like climbing a 90 degree wall of ice covered in Teflon and all you have to climb it is a toothpick. Literally impossible and should never be attempted by any self respecting human being.

 

this is a community game, there is no reason why they should avoid team oriented game modes? look at raids for example (and you cannot use they got removed for a rebuttal, they were not removed for being bad, it was removed because they could not update it properly), it was a very fun game mode, that required EIGHT co-operating team members, and gave RANDOM rewards having some being SOUGHT AFTER META ITEMS. That game mode was a very fun game mode because of the co-operations with friend to play the game, and get rewarded accordingly. These missions are FOUR people co-operating which is much easier to get than eight. the drops we want are ONE HUNDRED PERCENT CHANCE. My friends did it first try by planning ahead doing Rhino, Ember, Frost, and Trinity because they go together fairly well, Rhino was replaced with Nekros in Survival, and we huddled together like how the game used to be and worked together giving calls like, "Nulifiers to the north", "Low on energy", "Watch for the bursa" and stuff like that, where in normal game play we would never get. that is an experience that is rare these days in games because games try to please individual people, not groups of people. What are we rewarded with? Memories, probably my favorite node I have ever played on, A GUARANTEED REWARD unlike a lot of other frames where you just go in and blap the target a few times, leave, and do it again till you get it again. do you.... call, that fun? the old ways of getting frames? random chance one man army missions? I like this because they made a fairly difficult mission that we have to do only once because that shows we took 20-30 minutes in our day with friends to beat a mission. I am not saying they should continue doing these kinds of missions, I am saying as a one off way of getting a warframe, it is unique and fun.

[DrakeWurrum]

The only issue I have, from just hearing about the missions, is that they're damn near impossible to solo. I'm a solo player. I'm not in a big clan, and I genuinely HATE the idea of openly asking for people to group with me for content. I'm simply not a social person. I will go Public, but it's sounding like that can backfire horribly for these missions.

I will reserve judgment for when I try to duo them with the wife, but... this content does not sound appealing. My current perspective, based on what I know of the content right now and am imagining I will need to do to complete it, can be summed up as follows:

On 2019-11-01 at 10:23 AM, DrBorris said:

Spoiler: You can have a challenging power fantasy.

This mission wasn't Warframe, and you pretending that this is so simple is a major over-simplification of the challenges that come up with creating challenging Warframe content. People for years have been saying "If you want a challenge, remove your mods" and have been shot down repeatedly for good reason, that just isn't Warframe.

 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

9 minutes ago, Flameduel said:

this is a community game, there is no reason why they should avoid team oriented game modes? look at raids for example (and you cannot use they got removed for a rebuttal, they were not removed for being bad, it was removed because they could not update it properly), it was a very fun game mode, that required EIGHT co-operating team members, and gave RANDOM rewards having some being SOUGHT AFTER META ITEMS. That game mode was a very fun game mode because of the co-operations with friend to play the game, and get rewarded accordingly. These missions are FOUR people co-operating which is much easier to get than eight. the drops we want are ONE HUNDRED PERCENT CHANCE. My friends did it first try by planning ahead doing Rhino, Ember, Frost, and Trinity because they go together fairly well, Rhino was replaced with Nekros in Survival, and we huddled together like how the game used to be and worked together giving calls like, "Nulifiers to the north", "Low on energy", "Watch for the bursa" and stuff like that, where in normal game play we would never get. that is an experience that is rare these days in games because games try to please individual people, not groups of people. What are we rewarded with? Memories, probably my favorite node I have ever played on, A GUARANTEED REWARD unlike a lot of other frames where you just go in and blap the target a few times, leave, and do it again till you get it again. do you.... call, that fun? the old ways of getting frames? random chance one man army missions? I like this because they made a fairly difficult mission that we have to do only once because that shows we took 20-30 minutes in our day with friends to beat a mission. I am not saying they should continue doing these kinds of missions, I am saying as a one off way of getting a warframe, it is unique and fun.

Eidolons give guaranteed reward yet they’re like 1/16 the difficultly of the Grendel missions. Try again.

[EdinaMonsoon]

On 2019-11-01 at 2:43 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

The Defense one is receiving the most hate from what we're seeing, we are keeping an eye on it. 

the defense one was actually the easiest one for me, i went as a gara and we didn't need a trinity because energy orbs were being dropped in close range unlike survival and excav which are spread around the map

these missions were tough and i appreciate the challenge tbh, i think they just need shortening

[EdinaMonsoon]

13 minutes ago, Flameduel said:

this is a community game, there is no reason why they should avoid team oriented game modes? look at raids for example (and you cannot use they got removed for a rebuttal, they were not removed for being bad, it was removed because they could not update it properly), it was a very fun game mode, that required EIGHT co-operating team members, and gave RANDOM rewards having some being SOUGHT AFTER META ITEMS. That game mode was a very fun game mode because of the co-operations with friend to play the game, and get rewarded accordingly. These missions are FOUR people co-operating which is much easier to get than eight. the drops we want are ONE HUNDRED PERCENT CHANCE. My friends did it first try by planning ahead doing Rhino, Ember, Frost, and Trinity because they go together fairly well, Rhino was replaced with Nekros in Survival, and we huddled together like how the game used to be and worked together giving calls like, "Nulifiers to the north", "Low on energy", "Watch for the bursa" and stuff like that, where in normal game play we would never get. that is an experience that is rare these days in games because games try to please individual people, not groups of people. What are we rewarded with? Memories, probably my favorite node I have ever played on, A GUARANTEED REWARD unlike a lot of other frames where you just go in and blap the target a few times, leave, and do it again till you get it again. do you.... call, that fun? the old ways of getting frames? random chance one man army missions? I like this because they made a fairly difficult mission that we have to do only once because that shows we took 20-30 minutes in our day with friends to beat a mission. I am not saying they should continue doing these kinds of missions, I am saying as a one off way of getting a warframe, it is unique and fun.

+1 on this, it really brought out communication between me and the 3 other randoms because we all wanted to get it done swiftly and stress free

i really liked that, much better than bullet jumping from start to finish

[Flameduel]

Just now, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Eidolons give guaranteed reward yet they’re like 1/16 the difficultly of the Grendel missions. Try again.

Yes, because they made an easier way of getting Arcanes, I am using past examples of what people enjoyed because if people enjoyed playing a gamemode like Raids, where it required more man power, cost more because the keys were consumed on failure, held some of the most expensive items in the game in the same loot table of some very cheap trash items. If people enjoyed that for the game-play, which people did, it was a fun way to play with friends, then this new way of getting Grendel that required less people, not as expensive as it only removes the key upon completion, and on completion you are guaranteed the one and only item you need from the mission, there is no reason to say these should not exists as 3 simple missions that once you complete you never have to do them again. These are the first things in warframe that is not a RNG Grind, this is a one and done ones where yes it is people playing the meta, but it is not the same meta and you still have to play as a team. It is an experience you do not really get anymore in Warframe.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

42 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

There’s nothing skill based about these missions. It’s still the same ole “Find the meta build and go” situation. Except in this case it’s more “find the meta build and pray that you’re lucky enough to survive”. And why is it ok that these missions are pretty much squad mandatory when even mission like Interception can be done solo. We don’t all have friends that are reliably online, on Warframe, all the time, and competent clan/alliance members that can be called upon when needed. Sometimes we can only rely on ourselves.

A good challenge should be like climbing a mountain. It’s challenging but doable. And becomes easier with experience and the right tools. Missions like the ones to get Grendel are like climbing a 90 degree wall of ice covered in Teflon and all you have to climb it is a toothpick. Literally impossible and should never be attempted by any self respecting human being.

 

You can do it solo, it's just a higher skill ceiling. Why is this a problem for you?

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

5 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

You can do it solo, it's just a higher skill ceiling. Why is this a problem for you?

Because it’s not fun. Hard and fun are not mutually exclusive things. And I can’t keep supporting DE if they intend to stop making the game fun.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

1 minute ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Because it’s not fun. Hard and fun are not mutually exclusive things. And I can’t keep supporting DE if they intend to stop making the game fun.

A good challenge should be like climbing a mountain. It’s challenging but doable. And becomes easier with experience and the right tools.

Your words. That is literally what going solo is compared to doing it in a group. It is doable, tricky and becomes easier with practice.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 minute ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

A good challenge should be like climbing a mountain. It’s challenging but doable. And becomes easier with experience and the right tools.

Your words. That is literally what going solo is compared to doing it in a group. It is doable, tricky and becomes easier with practice.

“Right tools” implied mods and gear items, and operators. The things that literally define your progression of strength in this game. You’re not going to get any more efficient at shooting an enemy in the head without those things.

[Flameduel]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Because it’s not fun. Hard and fun are not mutually exclusive things. And I can’t keep supporting DE if they intend to stop making the game fun.

I will admittedly say sorry for the first snarky comment with the back handed "sorry", because it was actually pretty rude of me. I will say though, I don't understand why you hate these three missions so much, the missions themselves is 3 missions out of literally every other mission. they only need to be done once. Once you have the key, you have all the time in the world to find a team to spend 20-30 minutes to beat it once. And these missions will probably never be a requirement for anything like Arbitrations, story, and others of the like. in a sense they are the most optional difficult levels in the entire game. when when it comes to grendel, I will admit I also have personal gripes with other frames like Nidus because it is a boring RNG grind, I won't hate on DE on it though because it was different and the idea was to do the Raid for him and I am happy they left it as a one and done thing, I respected them for trying something new, and just farmed the little plat needed to get Nidus. just do the same with Grendel. Please don't get this mission nerfed, it will probably be their only time they do a mission like this for something as big as a warframe

[-CdG-Zilchy]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

“Right tools” implied mods and gear items, and operators. The things that literally define your progression of strength in this game. You’re not going to get any more efficient at shooting an enemy in the head without those things.

Except using all our gear provides NO CHALLENGE AT ALL. For ANY CONTENT. People have solo'd this with Wisp, Revenant, Nyx, Limbo, Mirage just to name a few. And they did it by choosing the right tools ie complimenting their loadout. You just want everything to be easy cos you're too used to copying meta builds rather than learning the game for yourself.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

-snip-

yeah I don’t need this. There’s already far more people who have agreed with me on this thread than you 2. So I think my points already been made. Missions like these are not how you make fun challenging content.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

yeah I don’t need this. There’s already far more people who have agreed with me on this thread than you 2. So I think my points already been made. Missions like these are not how you make fun challenging content.

Well..

You haven't offered any sort of suggestion as to how to make this content fun for you other than to demand your gear. This won't make it challenging, it'll make it a joke like the rest of the content in the game. 

What I and many others don't need? 

Is yet another potentially challenging bit of content being nerfed because too many people threw their toys out the pram on the forums. AGAIN.

Edited November 3, 2019 by -CdG-Zilchy