There is no benefit/incentive/reason to kill a Rank 5 Lich over a Rank 1 Lich

[Jarriaga]

5 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

Please reread my post. This is my personal opinion, not something up for debate.

The problem with "personal enjoyment" responses is that they go nowhere for the same reason some people find horror movies to be "fun" while some people find comedies to be "fun".

And I am giving you a scenario/example in which Kuva Thrall farming has been completed and it's not part of the final decision making, so that should not have been part of your response. Maybe I need to re-word the opening post. I see too many responses focused on what is happening during the Lich hunt process instead of the final Rank 1 kill vs. Rank 5 kill decision.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Jarriaga

[Kontrollo]

1 minute ago, Jarriaga said:

The problem with "personal enjoyment" responses is that they go nowhere for the same reason some people find horror movies to be "fun" while some people find comedies to be "fun".

Am I am giving you a scenario/example in which Kuva Thrall farming has been completed and it's not part of the final decision making.

I am simply stating my opinion here in this feedback thread, the reason why I make an attempt whenever the lich shows up. I've read and understand your opinion, we're free to have our own.

There is no problem.

[XxYuGixX5]

7 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

Assuming you already know the correct combination that will kill your Lich at Rank 2 because you completed your Thrall farm, fought it at Rank 1 and got the first mod right and only need to swap 2 with 3 for a guaranteed kill, then what would be the benefit of willingly choosing to use the wrong mod combination so your Lich ranks up instead of killing it outright in your next fight using the correct combination?

"Assuming you've already skipped the shortcut and reached the end, what incentive does the game give you to go back and take the shortcut?"

7 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

I do enjoy the harder Rank 5 Lich fight myself and that's why I've been ranking them up

That's why. You feed them so they're more of a challenge, and you get to the challenge faster. Not to mention that killing them quicker means you get your next shot at a good bonus kuva weapon faster. The point to trying to kill them when you aren't 100% sure you got it right, is so that you can get to the solution faster. It's just a matter of the slow, safe route (thralls) or the faster risky route (thralls + lich).

[Jarriaga]

22 minutes ago, XxYuGixX5 said:

"Assuming you've already skipped the shortcut and reached the end, what incentive does the game give you to go back and take the shortcut?"

That's besides the point. What do you get by chasing after a Rank 5 Lich instead of a Rank 1 Lich?

22 minutes ago, XxYuGixX5 said:

The point to trying to kill them when you aren't 100% sure you got it right, is so that you can get to the solution faster. It's just a matter of the slow, safe route (thralls) or the faster risky route (thralls + lich).

This thread is not about how fast it takes to get to the Rank 5 Lich or how can you speed up the process. It's about, if you know what will kill your Lich for sure at Rank 2, what's in there to encourage you to go all the way to rank 5?

22 minutes ago, XxYuGixX5 said:

That's why. You feed them so they're more of a challenge, and you get to the challenge faster.

The problem with "personal enjoyment" responses is that they go nowhere for the same reason some people find horror movies to be "fun" while some people find comedies to be "fun". I am explicitly refering to external, extrinsic incentives, as noted in the other part of my post that you decided to leave out. It's just like there's no reason to go past a C rotation in AABC missions beyond personal enjoyment (Which is something DE themselves have acknowledged and why they decided to go with infinite C rotations in Arbitrations and Disruption).

22 minutes ago, XxYuGixX5 said:

Not to mention that killing them quicker means you get your next shot at a good bonus kuva weapon faster.

Isn't that an argument in favor of killing them as soon as you can so you can get over with the current Lich and move on to the next one since there's no point beyond that?

Again, all else being equal, why should I go after a Rank 5 Lich when given the option to kill my Lich for certain at rank 2 and get the same weapon with the same bonuses earlier?

That's a problem for long-term sustainability in my opinion, which is a problem WF has struggled with for a long time now. If "personal enjoyment" and "personal challenge" mattered, then there would be no threads or complaints how there's no endgame and how the game is too easy and how the rewards are terrible. It all ties up to having the same end net result regardless of effort.

Otherwise, again, look at Anthem: People only did the easiest stronghold because it resulted in the exact same rewards as the hardest stronghold, making effort counterproductive to your farming beyond personal enjoyment.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Jarriaga

[XxYuGixX5]

I think it's been well established that the reason isn't a better reward. You keep asking "Well why do it if there's no reward?" then when you get an answer, saying "That's not a reward though"

1 hour ago, Jarriaga said:

Isn't that an argument in favor of killing them as soon as you can so you can get over with the current Lich and move on to the next one since there's no point beyond that?

Yes it is, which is why they made trying to kill the lich count as 10 murmurs.

1 hour ago, Jarriaga said:

I am explicitly refering to external, extrinsic incentives, as noted in the other part of my post that you decided to leave out.

Because there is none (((as you noted in the title to this thread))). Kuva liches are explicitly challenge-based content, designed to bring new opponents with different mechanics and obstacles.

 

1 hour ago, Jarriaga said:

Again, all else being equal, why should I go after a Rank 5 Lich when given the option to kill my Lich for certain at rank 2 and get the same weapon with the same bonuses earlier?

Because getting killed by the lich is 10x faster than each thrall, plus you can do the thralls on top of it.

1 hour ago, Jarriaga said:

If "personal enjoyment" and "personal challenge" mattered,

i mean, I play games so that i can enjoy them, and if you dont then that's your problem.

Edited November 7, 2019 by XxYuGixX5

[Jarriaga]

49 minutes ago, XxYuGixX5 said:

I think it's been well established that the reason isn't a better reward. You keep asking "Well why do it if there's no reward?" then when you get an answer, saying "That's not a reward though"

Then the system will start losing value once you have exhausted its reward pool. Same as any other game mode with one and done rewards, because they are not sustainable that way.

Then people will start demanding more content. Then people will say there's a drought.

Why? Because it's not sustainable. There's no incentive for pushing further.

49 minutes ago, XxYuGixX5 said:

Yes it is, which is why they made trying to kill the lich count as 10 murmurs.

That supports my argument then. If they are meant for you kill them as early as possible and move on to the next one, then there's no reason/benefit/incentive to intentionally rank up your Lich to Rank 5.

I see this as a problem for sustainability. If you don't, then fine.

49 minutes ago, XxYuGixX5 said:

Because there is none (((as you noted in the title to this thread))).

Thank you for being the first person in the entire thread to call a spade a spade.

I see no benefit to ranking them up. Again, I see that as a problem because there's a ranking mechanic and in absolutely any loot-based videogame I've played I get better rewards when playing hard mode. Rewards must match effort.

49 minutes ago, XxYuGixX5 said:

Kuva liches are explicitly challenge-based content, designed to bring new opponents with different mechanics and obstacles.

That is not relevant. This is not about what your Lich can do. It's about what you get when measuring rewards vs. effort, and getting it done as quick as possible being the better and most efficient option. Why have a ranking system at that point?

Why not remove the Ranking mechanic and have all Lich enemies be Rank 5 from the start only have them increase in influence when they kill you since the reward itself will remain the same regardless of Lich rank at death?

49 minutes ago, XxYuGixX5 said:

Because getting killed by the lich is 10x faster than each thrall, plus you can do the thralls on top of it.

How many times do I have to point out that in the described scenario there's no more murmur farming that needs to be done and that you are only required to choose to finish off your Lich in the next fight or intentionally use the wrong Requiem combination so it ranks up? Why are you providing examples and offering explanations that don't apply to that scenario? Is this a troll?

49 minutes ago, XxYuGixX5 said:

i mean, I play games so that i can enjoy them, and if you dont then that's your problem.

That's besides the point. People enjoy different things in different ways. This is about a ranking mechanic that increases difficulty with no payoff for doing so when given the chance between outright killing the Lich at a lower difficulty or going for the higher tier battle. Might as well remove the ranking system if it's all the same.

I for one will stop hunting Liches once I get all the Ephemera and weapons if there's no incentive once the reward pool is exhausted. Many will do the same. In fact, I was not even going to get involved with the Lich system at first because DE originally said the weapons would provide no mastery. I mean, I'm not even the first person to point that out and ask about what's there after the farming is done.

That can only be fixed by making it sustainable.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Jarriaga

[Kalarual]

currently the higher rank your lich is the more planets he owns (I think) so you have more choices in missions I guess.

[Chuggington]

You're combining 2 situations which aren't compatible. The purpose of ranking a Lich up is pre-knowing-all-requiems. I understand what you're trying to say, and to answer YOUR SPECIFIC question; no, there is no point in ranking up a Lich once you know all requiems. But you're crowbarring out the whole point of the ranking up system by restricting it's potential purpose to AFTER you already know the requiems. As has probably already been stated on this thread, failed lich attempts grant you roughly 10x more progress than a Thrall kill to your murmurs. That and it can eliminate some possibities or reveal some early. You're effectively asking "What's the point of ranking up a Lich if the point of ranking up a Lich has already been fulfilled?". With regards to longevity: "one and done" has been a big theme for WF updates and grinds. And quite frankly my response to this as a whole is just, so what? There is plenty of other replayable, scaling content that you mentioned yourself. Not ALL content has to have an innate replayability factor.

[Jarriaga]

On 2019-11-11 at 5:20 PM, DrMonkeyKink said:

There is plenty of other replayable, scaling content that you mentioned yourself. Not ALL content has to have an innate replayability factor.

I'd appreciate it if you'd mentioned them by name, because I can't think of a single piece of content or a game mode in WF that doesn't die after farming their mods, weapons, or Arcanes.

[(PSN)Raccune]

Dear OP: yes I agree. Right now, there seems to be no benefit for the increased challenge. Hopefully the devs will consider this topic when they address the long term picture of their Kingpin System. Many players have mentioned the "one and done" scenario, and the devs seem keen to find a robust solution. You can read more in [DE]Bear's posts regarding long term arbitration rewards.

[-AncientWarrior-]

Firstly, great post Op, well said and very true, there is no point to rank up Lichs.. My first Lich I stabby stabbed everytime he showed up, and the lvl of the nodes got to 110-130 very quick, not hard but not very efficient for the job i was doing which was FARMING.  With farming its all about getting it done fast, as you know you have a lot of missions of the same to run.  Therefore its better to run 5-6 quick solo mission collecting the 50 murmers than using stabby mode, unless you want to run purposely at higher levels, which sometimes I do for fun but it really doubles the time taken to get 5-6 extra murmers which isnt worth the time.  If you got say 25 murmers on stabby stab, everyone would be stabbing the crap out of their Lichs because it would be a better way to farm.  For most of us its all about efficiency of our gaming time.

Funny enough I saw a thread this morning with players abusing others in PUB games cause they wouldnt kill their Lich.  DE again just havent tested and thought about the issues it would cause, i.e. abuse from stabby mode players in Pubs.. DE should really get on top of and sort out so those who want to stabby stab have a reason to do so and have a benefit to do so.

Ah DE you've done it again!  You've created a community monster, but its not in the game - its the way the game dynamics divide the player base ...

[AnuKaneDai]

Well, from my side, DE did a great job. Now it's only about studying and correcting the mecanics.
Harder fight would end up just bashing a HP bag for no reason. Like the wolf.
Beating up the health point of a lich for too long and call it  "big tough fight" isnt end game.

Well the lich system is based on SoW game.
The mecanics of the game itself allow different way to approche your orcish champ and kill it. From stealthy to brutalisation, poison etc.

A lich who are weak against finisher (I mean you have to stun the lich few time to get enough finisher to drop her life)
And stuff like dat could be interesting. Not making lich stronger bag of HP, but needing a specific way.
Like "she take more damage when she is blinded" but took very few damage if not.
So making the fight involving your capacity to get a good setup with a lot of variety.
And not just take your Inaros tank with the best META weapunz and bashing for 5 mn the same HP bars and call it end game.

Actually I got a case, that was about 2 lich, 1 resist corro and 1 resist rad. I tried different weapon, even my phage viral gas on a lich supposed to be weak against those and strong versus corrosiv. The phage did nothing. I was so happy to have all my weap not effective against my lich that time.
Well my Rubico corrosiv did the job right on both cases. I suppose it's because of the nature of the armor.

The problem to make the fight more difficult and long. Sometimes with the right resist and invulnerability and skill set. Lich can be real plague to handle.
Especialy on a public party where people rush the exit and dont give a damn about you. Leaving you alone. And the game can be finsihed with a lich present.
So if it's yours.. So other people on a party have the power to dont let your lich coming, or the power to dont let you try to kill it.

I have no worry about ranking up my lich and do it willingly, because.. No one know, maybe In have the right requiems. I got a Lich on the second attempt !
If not, more mission possibility. to hunt my dear kuva thing.
But damn. Those peeps in Public because of lazyness and selfishness dont allow you to got your own lich.
"I dont kill my lich because no"
The lich must chase them accross the map and getting stronger, or not fight the lich you must be rewarded as a loss of murmur or an automatic rank up of the lich.
or the lich must share her resist to other grineer when they are present, making the whole game more difficult and then, being a necessity do kill them to stop the buff.
or funnyer. If you avoid fighting your lich, she stole the total of rewards you got on your mission even the murmur you make. So you need at least an attempt to get it back xD
 

[GPrime96]

On 2019-11-15 at 2:27 PM, -AncientWarrior- said:

Funny enough I saw a thread this morning with players abusing others in PUB games cause they wouldnt kill their Lich.  DE again just havent tested and thought about the issues it would cause, i.e. abuse from stabby mode players in Pubs.. DE should really get on top of and sort out so those who want to stabby stab have a reason to do so and have a benefit to do so.

The reason the "refusing to kill my Lich so i can farm Murmur in a lame efficient way" would only work in Solo or a planned Squad. Doing this in Public would mean you're just want to waste time on Players that want to get rid of their Lich since everyone would either have garbage for their Lich or a Weapon they want to farm for.

[Xerano]

my idee for your problem, the higher the lich level the more murmur you get if you die.

cause a lich lvl 1 give you your loot back and what was stolen, as the lich level 5 do.

so if you make it give you more murmur the higher the lvl is then that would make it more rewarding to try to kill him right?

i know that the loot you get back wont change and still get the same weapon.

[InsaneDarknessGaming]

In the same way that ranking your Liches to Rank 5 is rewarded, the reverse should also be true. 

With the provided example, you've spent your time farming the murmurs with friends on planets your Lich doesn't control (in an MMO, what a surprise!) and now you know exactly how to kill them. Everyone else has had to rank their Lich to 5 (which isn't exactly that hard) and you're about to defy the odds and defeat them at a lower level. You down your Lich and you're left with two options. Vanquish or Convert.

If you kill the Lich, you get the weapon. Took you longer to farm the Thralls, but you never fought your Lich other than 2 times, give or take. Weapon isn't stronger, they're not going to magically give you an ephemera, and all you did was fight a bunch of easier enemies. That's really the only upside.

If you convert the Lich, it just proposes more questions than answers. And, if there are answers, they aren't positive ones. You convert your Rank 2 Lich to your side. Congrats! They're probably going to stay Rank 2. You just made an attempt to defy the odds and do the more time-consuming thing to get a worse reward. Of course, that's just my guess. No one seems to document how powerful a Rank 2 is compared to a Rank 5, other than they can develop more resistances the higher Rank they are when they're your enemy. So, one could infer that they're weaker. Yay!

This is not a discussion of opinion. This is an encouragement to flesh out the system so it's not so bland and to make it so your choices actually matter. Make it so that Liches can rank up after they've been converted. Make it so they become stronger if you do so (as they've been helping you instead of fighting you). Make it so they forma their own weapons (so killing a Rank 5 might actually be worth it, idk). Give more incentive to kill at a higher level (which is easy to do in the first place) or (which is what I'd prefer) give incentive to kill at a lower level. It's much more difficult to kill a Lich at Rank 1 or 2. To kill at Rank 1, every mod has to be correct ON THE FIRST TRY. To kill at Rank 2, you're either lucky enough to have organized them correctly (which happened to me) or you knew what the first one was and you knew that the second wasn't that specific mod out of a selection of two. Rank 3 is a similar story. 

Of course, I'm not saying all my suggestions should be in the game RIGHT NOW. I'm saying them as ideas that would make the system better than it is now. I doubt any will actually be put in the game, but that's why they're called suggestions. There are clear flaws to them as well. My ideas aren't perfect either.

TL;DR, the only incentive is a harder fight, quicker murmur farming (but not as efficient), and a more powerful ally that can show up randomly. Fix this so people can have more choices as to how they tackle their Lich.

Also, apologies for replying to an old thread. Clearly, people stopped caring about Kuva Liches and I'm just getting back into them now. 😕

[Ham_Grenabe]

The benefit of ranking a Lich - and the related extra murmurs and mod order discovery - is that you get to the next Lich faster.

Theres no other benefit. 

[(PSN)IndianChiefJeff]

I personally believe the bonus stats for the Kuva weapons should be tied to Lich levels. The higher the Lich level, the higher the bonus stat, therefore removing DE's absurd belief in double-dipping RNG. Outside of challenging missions, the payoff isn't that spectacular.

[PrecariousTopShelfBook]

On 2020-01-13 at 5:08 PM, (PSN)IndianChiefJeff said:

I personally believe the bonus stats for the Kuva weapons should be tied to Lich levels. The higher the Lich level, the higher the bonus stat, therefore removing DE's absurd belief in double-dipping RNG. Outside of challenging missions, the payoff isn't that spectacular.

is  this a thing yet? id rather kill high level liches and stack their high % bonuses to reach 60. Less cassini runs? I'm all in

[60framespersecond]

On 2022-12-10 at 6:37 AM, PrecariousTopShelfBook said:

is  this a thing yet? id rather kill high level liches and stack their high % bonuses to reach 60. Less cassini runs? I'm all in

No.

[BR31]

Do you know what i wanted for this system?

And for ranks to matter more?

After 10-15 converted/killed liches you get an equipable item - a nemesis mark or something.
Lich starts at rank 4 and is always half or 75% of the rage meter .
It can also gain more resistances than normal or acquire them faster.

So it would actually feel more like a nemesis from the shadow of mordor.
And more of a lich hunt after you already did a fair chunk of them.
 

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

On 2019-11-07 at 3:54 AM, Jarriaga said:

When you attempt to kill your Lich and you fail because you don't have the correct Parazon mods, it ranks up. This in turn makes it harder to kill and increases the difficulty of Kuva Thrall missions.

What do I gain by risking leveling up my Lich in a Parazon attack (Other than speeding-up the process) instead of letting it kill me and go away until I'm done farming all the Thralls I need for an extremely easy kill? What is the benefit of killing a Rank 5 Lich instead of killing a Rank 1 Lich?

Normally, higher difficulty is rewarded with better loot or additional benefits not available in lower difficulties. But here, it's all the same. Rank 1 or Rank 5, your Lich gives the same weapon, and returns the same amount of stolen loot. This seems like a design flaw to me as it opens the door for outright avoid killing your Lich for the benefit of convenience until you're ready to kill it.

My feedback is based squarely on the following scenario:  Let's say you have farmed all Thralls with a Rank 1 Lich and you know the 3 Requiem mods you need. You fight it once, the first Requiem was right, but the second one failed, so you now know you only have to invert the last 2 Requiem mods for a guaranteed kill while your Lich is now rank 2.

Under this scenario, you have completed your Thrall farm and know the exact order of Requiem mods that will kill your Lich. Meaning, it's down to choosing to kill your Lich now, or willingly rank it up.

What reason do I have to willingly use the wrong Requiem mod combination all the way until my Lich is rank 5 instead of just killing it on my next attempt? What do you get out of a Rank 5 Lich kill that is not available in a Rank 1 Lich kill after the first time you get the achievement?

"Faster murmur progress" is not a payout that makes any distinction between what you get out of a Rank 1 Lich and a Rank 5 Lich. It only speeds-up the process. It doesn't give you a reason to actively pursue a Rank 5 Lich.

Why not incentivize Lich ranking by adding a 1.2x - 2x multiplier to stolen loot when returned based on your Lich's rank? How about adding additional vanquish options that are only available for Rank 5 Liches such as 20,000 Kuva instead of the weapon? What if the Kuva Lich weapon bonus was higher or had multiple bonuses if harvested from a Rank 5 Lich? What if you could capture a Rank 5 Lich to use it as Kuva Battery you can harvest in your Orbiter once per day, with the amount of Kuva increasing with the number of captured rank 5 Liches?

This could also help with future-proofing. At some point, DE, we will eventually run out of Lich weapons and Ephemera to farm. It is inevitable. At that moment, we will have few reasons (If any) to engage with the system because we would be getting nothing out of it. Content longevity and sustainability has been an issue in WF. Game modes and boss battles lose value once you farm their respective pools. I even made a feedback thread about this some months ago with regards to lack of incentives to repeat content because of "one and done" rewards. If you are looking to get people to continue to engage with the Lich system, there has to be something that holds its own value after the reward pool has been exhausted.

Boosting earned loot (As an incentive) alongside adding more vanquish options other than kill/convert when we defeat a Rank 5  Lich would give us reasons to farm and rank up Liches after their reward pools have been exhausted. It is important for the system's longevity.

 

*****************Disclaimer for those who say I am just scared of my Lich*****************

I actually want DE to buff Rank 5 Liches to around pre-nerf Wolf levels.

"Increase Kuva Lich battle difficulty and stats to around pre-nerf Wolf levels. Liches are disappointingly weak for what they are and what they are meant to be. As pointed out by Mogamu, their life is only prolonged due to the RNG layers that are involved, which are only there to mask how easy the actual battle is. A Rank 5 Lich fight should be taxing on you as a player. It should demand endurance from you. It should not be over in 1 minute. On that note, the Lich should fight back against its doom during the final health bar depletion. The final Parazon stab would feel a lot more dynamic and full of tension if it had a minigame you can fail such as a button-mashing contest or a quick-time event. If you fail it, you don't die, but your Lich runs away. It becomes a lot more engaging that just depleting their life from a safe distance and only getting close for a 1-button kill."

******************************************************************************************************************

If Anything I would suggest the Opposite.

I believe there should be a higher Incentive/Reward for killing a Lich at the lowest level possible.

Reward players for making Smart Choices with the requiem sequence and getting it done efficiently without wasted stabs/lvlups.

maybe something like every time a Lich levels up, they also Consume a portion of the loot they've stolen? so the sooner you kill them the more you get returned? Have a pop up screen on each lvl up showing inventory items that have been crossed off forever.

-Yes this is pretty drastic, Actual Consequences where loot can be Permanently Lost instead of a guaranteed 100%return on defeat. Might be a good thing so we start taking Liches seriously.

[60framespersecond]

1 hour ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

If Anything I would suggest the Opposite.

I believe there should be a higher Incentive/Reward for killing a Lich at the lowest level possible.

Reward players for making Smart Choices with the requiem sequence and getting it done efficiently without wasted stabs/lvlups.

maybe something like every time a Lich levels up, they also Consume a portion of the loot they've stolen? so the sooner you kill them the more you get returned? Have a pop up screen on each lvl up showing inventory items that have been crossed off forever.

-Yes this is pretty drastic, Actual Consequences where loot can be Permanently Lost instead of a guaranteed 100%return on defeat. Might be a good thing so we start taking Liches seriously.

Keep in mind that this thread is from November 2019, pretty much a week after the initial release of the Kuva Liches. With the inclusion of Oull a lot has changed.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

8 hours ago, 60framespersecond said:

Keep in mind that this thread is from November 2019, pretty much a week after the initial release of the Kuva Liches. With the inclusion of Oull a lot has changed.

darn Nekros thread

didn't notice

wish these things would autolock after a few months like reddit does....

[DroopingPuppy]

On 2020-01-13 at 6:42 PM, InsaneDarknessGaming said:

In the same way that ranking your Liches to Rank 5 is rewarded, the reverse should also be true. 

With the provided example, you've spent your time farming the murmurs with friends on planets your Lich doesn't control (in an MMO, what a surprise!) and now you know exactly how to kill them. Everyone else has had to rank their Lich to 5 (which isn't exactly that hard) and you're about to defy the odds and defeat them at a lower level. You down your Lich and you're left with two options. Vanquish or Convert.

If you kill the Lich, you get the weapon. Took you longer to farm the Thralls, but you never fought your Lich other than 2 times, give or take. Weapon isn't stronger, they're not going to magically give you an ephemera, and all you did was fight a bunch of easier enemies. That's really the only upside.

If you convert the Lich, it just proposes more questions than answers. And, if there are answers, they aren't positive ones. You convert your Rank 2 Lich to your side. Congrats! They're probably going to stay Rank 2. You just made an attempt to defy the odds and do the more time-consuming thing to get a worse reward. Of course, that's just my guess. No one seems to document how powerful a Rank 2 is compared to a Rank 5, other than they can develop more resistances the higher Rank they are when they're your enemy. So, one could infer that they're weaker. Yay!

This is not a discussion of opinion. This is an encouragement to flesh out the system so it's not so bland and to make it so your choices actually matter. Make it so that Liches can rank up after they've been converted. Make it so they become stronger if you do so (as they've been helping you instead of fighting you). Make it so they forma their own weapons (so killing a Rank 5 might actually be worth it, idk). Give more incentive to kill at a higher level (which is easy to do in the first place) or (which is what I'd prefer) give incentive to kill at a lower level. It's much more difficult to kill a Lich at Rank 1 or 2. To kill at Rank 1, every mod has to be correct ON THE FIRST TRY. To kill at Rank 2, you're either lucky enough to have organized them correctly (which happened to me) or you knew what the first one was and you knew that the second wasn't that specific mod out of a selection of two. Rank 3 is a similar story. 

Of course, I'm not saying all my suggestions should be in the game RIGHT NOW. I'm saying them as ideas that would make the system better than it is now. I doubt any will actually be put in the game, but that's why they're called suggestions. There are clear flaws to them as well. My ideas aren't perfect either.

TL;DR, the only incentive is a harder fight, quicker murmur farming (but not as efficient), and a more powerful ally that can show up randomly. Fix this so people can have more choices as to how they tackle their Lich.

Also, apologies for replying to an old thread. Clearly, people stopped caring about Kuva Liches and I'm just getting back into them now. 😕

You better not ask someone, especially for the post that left some years ago.