Thoughts on how to move towards a better RIven system

[SolarDwagon]

Rivens-

The amount of RNG involved in Rivens needs to be brought back into check. Purchased rivens via shards could be selectable types, or alternatively some form of “push” by the player (spend X kuva to get Y weapon type, spend more or something else to include/exclude possible weapons/types).
Similarly, stats need to be brought in. Perhaps every 20-50 rolls you get to “fix” (or unfix) a stat that will always be included on the riven, with fixed stats stacking each of these cycles, so that you could eventually have all three stats fixed to roll for negatives, or even fix all four and reroll just for numerical value. And then unfix them the next melee change cycle 😉
Numerical value itself could do with some form of nudging towards a final value.
Yes, this will mean “everyone” can eventually get a god-tier riven. IF they get it for the right weapon and IF they’re happy spending that number of rerolls. Well-rolled rivens will still have value, being either a lot of luck or a lot of work, but good rivens will be much more achievable without having the current situation where rolling forever is possible and in fact reasonably plausible.

 

With any luck, the individual disposition change will bring Rivens closer to their original intention, of being a way to bring weaker weapons up to standard with sufficient investment. The RNG involved in getting useful stats and other factors have made them fail at this as well, however, so more changes need to be made.

[Celimbor]

Removing them completely is the only right step.

[SolarDwagon]

Just now, Celimbor said:

Removing them completely is the only right step.

I don't exactly disagree, but I'm not sure DE have that option still available, with the hundreds of thousands, if not millions of plat that gets exchanged over them. So I think slowly bringing their value and randomness back into a reasonable point is a much more achievable goal than removing them.

[Walkampf]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb Celimbor:

Removing them completely is the only right step.

I very much agree with this.

Rivens are nothing more than lootboxes containing actual powerups.

Sure, you can't buy rivens and rerolls outright with money, but you are basically forced into buying a ressource booster.

So it's basically a lootbox-subscription.

[Miser_able]

I honestly don't see the point in owning a "God tier" riven, outside of bragging rights. Not much content even requires that level of power unless you want to be all "I live in Mot now, I shall never leave". 

[Miser_able]

7 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

, but you are basically forced into buying a ressource booster.

Not really... I pretty much never have a booster, an when I do it's a free one from login/sortie/baro, and I have plenty of Rivens I rolled till I was happy with them. 

[Walkampf]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb Miser_able:

Not really... I pretty much never have a booster, an when I do it's a free one from login/sortie/baro, and I have plenty of Rivens I rolled till I was happy with them. 

Yes, that might be true for you.

But unfortunatly, there are a lot of players which don't have this patience.

If you follow the forums, keep attention to all the topics which revolve around increasing Kuva rewards for basically every available source.

A very vocal part of the community very strongly disagrees with you, that there is not enough Kuva offered in any way.

[SpringRocker]

19 minutes ago, Celimbor said:

Removing them completely is the only right step.

This is the harsh reality 😕 .

I understand that Rivens supposed to be a way to make cool and individual weapon builds while granting more power to "less used" and therefore more balanced, but they don't really balance anything. You can already enhance a weapon's output past 100x of what it was originally, there's no reason to add on more power "just because".

The reason why Arca-Plasmor and Catchmoon were popular isn't because they did lot's of damage, they were like every other gun that can be built to oneshot almost everything under level 140. Their rivens were just a way for people to give the extra ompf. Even though I collect rivens and have around 80 at the moment I think we'd be better off channeling them into something else.

We already one-shot everything with guns and frames, the only challenge we face is (ultimately) working up to a difficulty where we get one-shot ourselves. I feel like any new content we're given is just going to be sped through and destroyed with the way things are right now 😕 . That's just the way things are now and the first step to fixing it is to tear down the damage creep.


PS: On a side note the Grendel missions were cool, I enjoyed them a lot. They weren't perfect (can still be cheesed) but were much better. I still hangout in recruitment looking for people looking for help on them from time to time even though I don't need them.

[Miser_able]

11 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

Yes, that might be true for you.

But unfortunatly, there are a lot of players which don't have this patience.

If you follow the forums, keep attention to all the topics which revolve around increasing Kuva rewards for basically every available source.

A very vocal part of the community very strongly disagrees with you, that there is not enough Kuva offered in any way.

Thats because they want to be able to roll rivens back to back to back, till they get a God roll. Catering to the inpatient people is a bit of a bad idea. 

[Walkampf]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Miser_able:

Thats because they want to be able to roll rivens back to back to back, till they get a God roll. Catering to the inpatient people is a bit of a bad idea. 

I absolutly agree.

That's why I think the easiest way is to completly remove the Riven system.

Although, I'd be fine with Ressource boosters not effecting Kuva.

 

I see rivens pretty much as the very same kind of problem as to when you where able to reroll your Kubrows appearence for Platinum.

Edited November 14, 2019 by Walkampf

[(PSN)Shelneroth]

I think rivens are fine how they are.

[Aluzhun]

DE's original thinking behind the system is flawed.

Rivens should be used to enhance your favorite weapons; not bring the MR trash that you would never dream of using "up to par".

Rivens are an end-game system. Players should be rewarded for farming all that Kuva and those Anasa sculptures. And yet, each time DE performs a disposition nerf, players are seeing their time investment being flushed down the toilet. It's no wonder why many (including myself) have stopped caring about rivens altogether - we know that even if we got a riven for a weapon we love, it'll only end up getting nerfed in 6 months' time. Why bother?

[MPonder]

1- Make them 1 time trade only.

2- Improve how much Kuva are gained per day in the server, with lichs, this probably increased the amount of Kuva that was being gathered in the server, but then, by giving the chance of the Relics to drop from Thralls, it all went down, they also removed kuva from Thralls right? Increase the reward in sortie, make it always up on Nightwave shop, lower the price on vitus essence, increase Kuva on Fortress, etc. More kuva, more rivens rolled, more good rivens on the market, more accessible price.

3- Increase Riven gain, they could pretty much lower the shard cost on Paladino to 4 or 5 shards, and make more fissures types for requiem relics on other planets. Improve the loot on requiem relics too, so people actually want to open them after they finish their lich hunt (if this is even going to happen lol).

4- Riven alerts to influence market price to go down: Check what Rivens have the highest price, do some alerts around it. Like, imagine making a Riven alert that will only generate Sniper rifles rivens every now and then, that would lower a lot the Rubico rivens price on the market. Now it is much lower Rubico rivens price than it used to be(cause nerfs), but when was higher, this could help.

5- ORRRRR Make achieving the Riven with the stats you want achievable by yourself (lock rolls???). Vulkar rivens are the one and only that I buy and roll every now and then, rolled tons of them, because when I was getting into eidolon hunt and understanding how to break the limbs, Rubico rivens and Lanka rivens were just out of reach for me at that points (I know you don't need Riven on these guys now ok), so I got my Vulkar Wraith a cheap riven, got a good roll (cc, ms, heat) by luck and was #*!%ing happy with the weapon and its performance (oneshotting). Since then, I tried so many times to get a CD, MS, CC riven, and I dunno, I think 1000K rolls on Vulkar rivens it is probably a low number to what I actually have, and I never got a CC, CD, MS one.

[MPonder]

17 minutes ago, Aluzhun said:

DE's original thinking behind the system is flawed.

Rivens should be used to enhance your favorite weapons; not bring the MR trash that you would never dream of using "up to par".

Rivens are an end-game system. Players should be rewarded for farming all that Kuva and those Anasa sculptures. And yet, each time DE performs a disposition nerf, players are seeing their time investment being flushed down the toilet. It's no wonder why many (including myself) have stopped caring about rivens altogether - we know that even if we got a riven for a weapon we love, it'll only end up getting nerfed in 6 months' time. Why bother?

Agree, so much, when I say this, all I get are "haha" emotes. On MMOs you have that enhance since +1, +2, +3, ... on weapons. Rivens should be this for us. You already can use the same mod for every weapon of the same type, formas and potatos are nothing for a lot of people. The only thing that remains are Rivens to enhance and put some "real" investiment on that specific weapon.

Edited November 14, 2019 by MPonder

[JackHargreav]

2 hours ago, Celimbor said:

Removing them completely is the only right step.

I'm supporting this idea.

[Yamazuki]

Having alternate Rivens that can't be traded at all, but aren't as random weapon and stats wise is what I would like, don't care if it's a major time sink. I always prefer more expensive, no trade, options over RNG on RNG on top of still requiring a lot of time anyways.

[CoefficientOfCool]

rivens are not getting removed without a comparable plat sink being introduced. period. and even if said plat sink were introduced, why would they remove rivens? it makes no sense to hurt their bottomline to make a couple people feel vindicated in their hate of the riven system. personally, I'm not a huge fan of the current system either but without the introduction of new systems/plat sinks, I cant see how it would benefit DE to change anything. 

 

I think tweaks could be added to current system to help bridge the gap between the tradechat warriors and the more casual playerbase. for example, locking a stat seems like a popular suggestion by people wanting change. cool, i agree with the sentiment, but DE has to be able to monetize this so be ready for a 0.002% drop chance for RivenStatLocker4000 from kuva liches -or- purchasable from the market for 200+ plat. and I know A LOT of people that would spend 200+ plat for that. 

personally, I'm more a fan of introducing the option to lock a specific riven to a players account if they wanted to lock a stat onto said riven. and then DE could still encourage that person to lock more stats on their riven by using current resource acquisition methods to time-gate the fact that you cant immediately get a "god tier" riven once you agree to lock said riven to your account (i.e. - 50k kuva for 2nd stat lock, 250k kuva for 3rd, etc...). and that would encourage more boosters to be bought as well. 

all this is just personal opinion, which is to say, meaningless rambling. hope everyone has a good day.

[ILOHARTA]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Shelneroth said:

I think rivens are fine how they are.

glad someone else share my thought

[SolarDwagon]

22 minutes ago, CoefficientOfCool said:

rivens are not getting removed without a comparable plat sink being introduced. period. and even if said plat sink were introduced, why would they remove rivens? it makes no sense to hurt their bottomline to make a couple people feel vindicated in their hate of the riven system. personally, I'm not a huge fan of the current system either but without the introduction of new systems/plat sinks, I cant see how it would benefit DE to change anything. 

 

I think tweaks could be added to current system to help bridge the gap between the tradechat warriors and the more casual playerbase. for example, locking a stat seems like a popular suggestion by people wanting change. cool, i agree with the sentiment, but DE has to be able to monetize this so be ready for a 0.002% drop chance for RivenStatLocker4000 from kuva liches -or- purchasable from the market for 200+ plat. and I know A LOT of people that would spend 200+ plat for that. 

personally, I'm more a fan of introducing the option to lock a specific riven to a players account if they wanted to lock a stat onto said riven. and then DE could still encourage that person to lock more stats on their riven by using current resource acquisition methods to time-gate the fact that you cant immediately get a "god tier" riven once you agree to lock said riven to your account (i.e. - 50k kuva for 2nd stat lock, 250k kuva for 3rd, etc...). and that would encourage more boosters to be bought as well. 

all this is just personal opinion, which is to say, meaningless rambling. hope everyone has a good day.

Making stat-locked rivens untradeable does actually seem like an okay compromise, I like it. As long as you can reasonably stat-lock all four.

[(PSN)Shelneroth]

1 hour ago, Aluzhun said:

DE's original thinking behind the system is flawed.

Rivens should be used to enhance your favorite weapons; not bring the MR trash that you would never dream of using "up to par".

Rivens are an end-game system. Players should be rewarded for farming all that Kuva and those Anasa sculptures. And yet, each time DE performs a disposition nerf, players are seeing their time investment being flushed down the toilet. It's no wonder why many (including myself) have stopped caring about rivens altogether - we know that even if we got a riven for a weapon we love, it'll only end up getting nerfed in 6 months' time. Why bother?

Your favorite weapon and MR trash are one and the same here. If you enjoy using a top teir weapon it doesn't need a riven. If you love how a sub-par weapon feels to use a riven should make it viable.

[Walkampf]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Aluzhun:

Rivens should be used to enhance your favorite weapons;

You are confusing te terms of favourite Weapon and META Weapon.

What if my favourite weapon is a fairly weak one?

This might come as a surprise, but you are not the center of the universe, which everything revolves around.

There are other people with other preferences.

[CoefficientOfCool]

7 minutes ago, SolarDwagon said:

Making stat-locked rivens untradeable does actually seem like an okay compromise, I like it. As long as you can reasonably stat-lock all four.

we may disagree on what the word 'reasonably' means here...

for me, being able to lock 4 stats on something is going to make it dumb OP so it should take significant investment/time. think like 750k-1million kuva for 4th stat. with great power comes great responsibility... and all that =P

[-CdG-Zilchy]

1 hour ago, MPonder said:

1- Make them 1 time trade only.

That is the best idea for rivens I've ever seen. My personal preference is that they should be utility only get rid of things like crit bonuses ie powercreep stats and make them so that you can  tailor weapons to individual tastes for example, "10 seconds of invisibility on headshot".  Rivens should've been for weapons what the Pexilus slot now is.

[Goodwill]

Personally, I think Rivens should be rebranded as Amalgam mods; make the benefit of Rivens the ability to fit more stats rather than better stats. Then also plaster on a rolled weapon effect like:

In general:
Headhunter: headshots critical multiplier doubled.
Marksman's Rush: maintaining over 50% accuracy increases damage by 50%.
Last Line: if magazine reloads less than magazine capacity, doubles critical chance.

Bows:
Silent and Efficient: impaling 2 or more enemies with a single arrow has a chance to drop energy orb.

Melee:
Executioner: finishers double critical chance.
Jugglenaught: enemies killed during lift status have a chance to drop health orbs.

Just some examples. It also fits into the theme that Rivens are unlocked by doing skill-based challenges (not really but let's just say so for the sake of argument (but maybe they really should be) and you can also access the full potential of your riven by playing that style.

 

Edited November 14, 2019 by Goodwill

[SolarDwagon]

26 minutes ago, CoefficientOfCool said:

we may disagree on what the word 'reasonably' means here...

for me, being able to lock 4 stats on something is going to make it dumb OP so it should take significant investment/time. think like 750k-1million kuva for 4th stat. with great power comes great responsibility... and all that =P

Except if riven dispos are balanced correctly, it won't be stupid OP. The problem is that right now, rivens are too valuable and are a massive problem for the game economy, and their massive value makes it hard to do anything about them. They need devaluing, but at the same time dumpstering their value rapidly could be seen as unfair to those that spent money on platinum to buy rivens.

While yes, it should take a significant amount of investment, remember that you still have to roll after locking, so the locking costs are only a portion of the overall cost. Especially if you want to roll rivens for more than just the meta weapons that people expect you to have rivens for (Rubico, Plasmor, Catchmoon standing out because of their specific utilities), it should be challenging (or at least require time investment) but not  prohibitive like the current system. The idea is to improve the system overall, not just replace market grinding with solo grinding like you seem to want.

Edited November 14, 2019 by SolarDwagon