Toxic lich hunter bullies are spreading "badwill", ban them.

[Portlalaland]

5 hours ago, Dharma-Beerlite said:

If your lich is over lvl 3 you should have various planets option to select the mission type. Click on them to check the mission detail type. I don't do defend mission unless at lvl 1 lich limited to 1 planet and lich still stuck at lvl 1 which yet to open up more planets. Even if lvl 1 lich i would bring a appropriate frame like frost/Khora etc to do that at ease. 

I don't see why the lich levels are related to what I happened to me. The lich itself wasn't the only problem. It's the horde of enemies. No matter what node you choose and no matter the lich level is, the mission always starts at around level 80-100.

Edited November 16, 2019 by RougeMagma

[Roach_Milk]

First post! 

If your lich is level 5 just remember that there are usually 3 other people in a squad to help you kill it. I've never done a mission where people refuse to help kill a lich. If you don't want to attack your lich how about going solo and NOT Inconveniencing the other players in your squad by blocking their lich spawns. OR if your lich spawns why not just leave the mission? Don't be selfish.

[Pagasarri]

Il y a 21 heures, Graavarg a dit :

Un nuevo comportamiento de tendencia consiste en cazadores de lich acosar verbalmente, intimidar y abusar de otros jugadores en misiones PUB para obligarlos a atacar su lich personal. Presumiblemente para obtener algunos murmullos más. Esta idiotez debe detenerse, por cualquier medio necesario. 

• Un lich es una parte personal del juego, y todos deberían ser libres de hacer las misiones exactamente de la manera que quieran (sin que otros jugadores abusen de ellas en el chat).
• Jugar una misión PUB con randoms significa inherentemente que no hay una forma especial acordada de hacer la misión. Tratar de forzar a otros jugadores al azar a hacerlo "a tu manera" (haz tus pujas) es grosero, de mala educación o peor. Cualquiera que desee un equipo dedicado puede usar el chat (o el clan o la lista de amigos) para formar uno. Y si realmente siente la necesidad de que un compañero Tenno lo ayude "en la misión", puede pedirlo de manera amable y cortés.

Personalmente no me importan mucho las molestias, para mí es solo una forma de decir "oye, juego a este juego y soy un idiota". Pero ahora he visto varias veces que los jugadores de MR más bajos dan a este abuso, y esto me molesta. También odio a los matones, siempre lo he hecho y siempre lo haré.

En este momento, incluso apoyaría la prohibición de los acosadores y abusadores durante 24 horas para enfriarlos. Sé que es una molestia adicional para DE manejar los informes, pero sería desafortunado si se permitiera que este comportamiento continuara, ya que presumiblemente conducirá a jugadores "no tan experimentados" que se desconecten de la mecánica del lich. Y hemos visto todo esto antes, con jefes, eventos y trid hunt, solo por nombrar algunos ejemplos.

dont kill the kuva lich = toxic player.

No words are needed to be toxic.

[EntityEnigma]

What about just utilizing the ignore function?

[Dharma-Beerlite]

1 hour ago, RougeMagma said:

I don't see why the lich levels are related to what I happened to me. The lich itself wasn't the only problem. It's the horde of enemies. No matter what node you choose and no matter the lich level is, the mission always starts at around level 80-100.

Firstly, if you playing on pub, the mass spawn lvl depends on the host lich lvl not yours. However, if your lich happens to spawn it will retain its current lich difficulty lvl. So best way to control your mission general spawn lvl is to do your mission solo/ like minded party with everyone lich not above lvl 2.  

[Melanholic7]

Thats fine. just grind Nightwaves, buy alot of Wolf beacons and summon them in groups who have idiots like this. afor a sweet revenge :3 if they dont want kill their lich - ok, its time to fight with wolfie:) and dont help them. “you donw owe them anything,its pub game” 

[BDT_Flames]

System is for 1-2 lv

First  for play with my team for 1 Kuva Player 

1.Play on with your  Squad-Frineds farm  on theirs planets and when make 2 full murmur bar  

2.Go solo half/ cleaning your planet get 3 full murmur bar and now make random explore combination but is this LUCK

I think have 1 clip on 1 lv 

Weapon 7:with Nekros Prime only  Toxin kill boss 1 lv

Edited November 16, 2019 by BDT_Flames

[Test-995]

21 minutes ago, Melanholic7 said:

Thats fine. just grind Nightwaves, buy alot of Wolf beacons and summon them in groups who have idiots like this. afor a sweet revenge :3 if they dont want kill their lich - ok, its time to fight with wolfie:) and dont help them. “you donw owe them anything,its pub game” 

Well, if you want to waste your precious beacon for something like that...

 

[Graavarg]

13 hours ago, Graavarg said:

I still think the best thing that came out of this is the suggestion that you should be able to despawn your lich without going into the kill-or-be-killed situation and so avoiding the lich ranking up.

Your lich spawns in, you don't want to try and kill it, you despawn it, end of story, mission goes on.

There is actually an even easier way of cooling things down:

1. Make lich murmurs go ONLY to the owning player

2. DE could state clearly that any existing in-mission lich does NOT affect other liches spawning in.

The first change would stop a lot of the harassment, since psychotic lich farmers would not get any more benefit (extra murmurs) from bullying other players to try to kill their lich. The second would remove the persistent idea that only one lich at a time can be present in a mission (and that it has to be attacked before another can spawn).

Since a lot of the players claiming that co-op is the real reason why they now harass other players to kill their lich, I am sure we won't see any arguments like "well, if I don't get any murmurs I won't help with the lich". Since that would kind of prove that the driving force was something rather opposite to "co-op".

Edited November 16, 2019 by Graavarg

[BDT_Flames]

I first when play with my squad Friend  get Kuva Lich for 1h,30 min

I test in Solo cleaning 3 planets for 4h i s very useless this options

and now play with some random squad only surv and defense,excavation /interception i use Banshee for fast complete

in solo  cleaning  infect 1 planet with very heavy mission without  disruption is very useless this mission

Next make some random combination= on luck or death from boss 😄  and next other planet  again-again for kill to boss

Hello Mr.Grind.

 

Edited November 16, 2019 by BDT_Flames

[zoffmode]

1 hour ago, Graavarg said:

There is actually an even easier way of cooling things down:

1. Make lich murmurs go ONLY to the owning player

2. DE could state clearly that any existing in-mission lich does NOT affect other liches spawning in.

The first change would stop a lot of the harassment, since psychotic lich farmers would not get any more benefit (extra murmurs) from bullying other players to try to kill their lich. The second would remove the persistent idea that only one lich at a time can be present in a mission (and that it has to be attacked before another can spawn).

Since a lot of the players claiming that co-op is the real reason why they now harass other players to kill their lich, I am sure we won't see any arguments like "well, if I don't get any murmurs I won't help with the lich". Since that would kind of prove that the driving force was something rather opposite to "co-op".

?

Lich murmurs went to whole team for barely a day, almost a week ago. DE quickly took it off claiming it was a bug. So no, driving force is coop indeed. Maybe you don't know that because you haven't really helped anyone.

As for the second point, pretty sure it spawns 2 Liches only in rare cases of bugs unless you're talking about converted Liches coming to help. 

Edited November 16, 2019 by zoffmode

[mrpyro12345678]

10 hours ago, Test-995 said:

being weak is the problem of players.

And that means they should not do Kuva Liches at all, they opted in while weak, now they gotta keep killing their lich.

[Test-995]

1 minute ago, mrpyro12345678 said:

And that means they should not do Kuva Liches at all, they opted in while weak, now they gotta keep killing their lich.

Yeah no i'm saying you shouldn't have a problem doing missions with r5 lich alive.

[JuDirval]

What about adding a beacon that make spawn the lich when you desire or need. No more random spawn for lich. Murmur release some resource and then in one minute you can craft the beacon and using it only when you desire to make a try or to kill it. 

Edited November 16, 2019 by JuDirval

[mrpyro12345678]

As I understand this forum post rn, everyone is debating on why do you stab or not the liches, while there's one obvious solution. You stab the lich, it levels up, and you get to a tier where higher level players are, stab with the highlevels, it levels up, and professionals start appearing. stab again, while being helped by other people. The only deficit from stabbing your lich if you are low-level is that solo missions are hardcore now. Pub matches can be easy because good players help you. By not stabbing your Lich you basically sabotage everyone and stagnate lich level growth.

Edit: I actually just realized that, so there can be some contradictions with my previous comments.

Edited November 16, 2019 by mrpyro12345678

[AngelWednesday]

The only reason for not killing my Lich is so he spawns additional thralls to get murmurs out of.

Once they have finished spawning thralls then it's more of a tactical decision as to whether or not I should kill the Lich. 

In this case it would be "Can I handle the next level of mobs or are my Lich missions a dog to do?"

9 times out of ten I'll just kill the Lich as I'm usually in a good spot to do it and then repeat with the next players Lich for the bonus Thralls and murmurs.

Maybe just setting some ground rules before the mission gets into full flow to give the opportunity for player's to leave is the best course.

Or a voting out system that removes the player and their Lich to their own instance and leaves the team to continue?

Then no one has to get rowdy with anyone.

[Braneman]

10 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

Oh yeah, that'll make the game way more fun than it is now. 🙄 It's a good thing you're not a game designer.

I actually feel bad about responding to you in basically a copy of this discussion five days ago now, you seem to be here to stir up trouble, ignore points that you can't counter to declare yourself the winner and stringently avoid saying a single constructive thing about how this clearly strife inducing mechanic can be changed and it very likely will be patched. Have you really been on the forums for the past five days in threads like this? For somebody who says they "learn faster than others" you seem to have a real blind spot for some things.

Prolonging discussions like this is pointless when you're not actively trying to change the system for the better, or at least constructively point out it's flaws so it can be improved. Especially since this is Warframe, it's going to be patched somehow.

Here let me start with some constructive ideas, when the Lich comes into the mission they should automatically spawn the max number of thralls around them that they can spawn up to the mission cap.(presumably DE wants to keep a cap on thralls per mission)

List the Lich's vulnerabilities and weaknesses more prominently somewhere in the UI with stronger contrasting colors so people know what will damage the lich more. This seems to be a real blind spot for lich hunting for a lot of people.

Label your lich specifically in the ingame mission UI so people no longer have the problem of "is it my Lich?"

Bring back lich murmurs from other people's lich attempts in some way, I think this would be best as some kind of pickup so people stay close during the attempt.

[Pouf82]

The issue is not really are you killing your lich or not but the comportement of the players involved.

I'm mainly  mixing the playstyles myself.

For the first 2 words, I play like @hyohakusha 

1. - I do exterminate when my lich is not angry and farm murmur
2. - I do survival/disruption/(mobile defense) when my lich is angry in the hope that she'll spawn at the beginning of the mission.
3. - If I've a word to test I wait until the end of the survival/disruption to kill my lich (normal thrall spawn stop after 4:30 - 5:00 and after there are only lich converted thrall spawn)

What it mean is that I maximize the thrall, not only for me but for everyone.

1. - A lich spawning in the beginning of a survival/disruption will often convert more than 10 thralls (so more that if everyone got his lich to spawn)
2. - Farming murmur on thrall mean more chance to get relics (i've +/- 180 relics now) vs farming murmur by lich killing

After my first 2 words, I start to mix thing.

1. - If one the 2 words I've discovered are in the first spot, I know where I need to put my last word and I continue playing by maximising thrall spawn and not killing my lich. When I've my last word, I run all the capture mission I got alone to enrage her and  make her spawn fast
2. - If none of the 2 words I've discovered are in the first spot, I kill my lich when still maximising thrall spawn (meaning I'll kill my lich in mission where there are no mobs around her or at the end of disruption/survival

You can see that when I'm not lucky, I trying to kill my lich when I see her and otherwise I'm farming thralls murmur

It mean that I've been on the 2 sides and here is what I've seen :

 

When I'm not killing my lich :

1. You've people leaving the mission when they see that you'll really not kill it (and losing all the murmur thrall they got)
2. You've people staying forever on the lich even when you're at extraction hoping that you'll be annoyed and go to kill her
3. You've people taking forever to kill a lvl 5 lich because they've bad weapons and didn't try to counter her weakness (I'll still go help them)
4. You've people insulting you because you're not killing it (I'm not an english native so I've even discovered new insults, thx guys)
5. You've people trolling you and making impossible to finish the mission (in mobile def, I've seen guys taking the datamass and refusing to use it and/or leaving the game with the datamass so it didn't appear back on the minimap after)

When I'm killing my lich

1. You still have the people insulting the other or delaying the mission if someone doesn't want to kill. What I do myself is dropping the life of the lich 2 times, if I see no stab, I go to the extract 'caus it's a lot faster to try again in an other mission
2. You still have the people taking forever to kill a lvl 5 lich
3. You've nobody insulting you 'caus you're killing your lich or 'caus they joined your game with lvl 120 mobs even if you yourself is taking time to down a bad lich

What I want to say is that :

1. yes it's annoying that someone is not killing his lich when you need it
2. when you're sure that you can kill your lich, it's faster to go solo
3. when someone is not killing his lich, it's faster to finish the mission and extract instead of arguing about it 
4. people need to stay civil, we're grown up for the most part and we know that sometimes everything is not working as we want it
5. Your lich, your rules. My lich mine

 

And for the people who will say that I've not really tried the lich system, I'm at 39 liches and I still don't have the hammer 😞

[CuChulainnWD]

On 2019-11-15 at 3:55 AM, Graavarg said:

A new trending behaviour is lich hunters verbally mobbing, bullying and abusing other players in PUB missions in order to force them to attack their personal lich. Presumably in order to get a few more murmurs. This idiocy should be stopped, by any means necessary. 

• A lich is a  personal part of the game, and all should be free to do the missions exactly the way they want (without other players abusing them in chat).
• Playing a PUB mission with randoms inherently means that there is no agreed special way of doing the mission. Trying to force other random players to do it "your way" (do your bidding) is rude, bad manners, or worse. Anyone wanting a dedicated team can use the chat (or clan, or friends list) to form one. And if you really feel to need for a fellow Tenno to help you  out "in mission", you can ask nicely and politely.

I don't personally care that much about the nagging, to me it's just a way of saying "hey, I play this game and I am an idiot". But I've now several times seen lower MR players giving to this abuse, and this pisses me off. I also hate bullies, always have and always will.

At this point in time I would even support banning the bullies and abusers for 24h in order to cool them down. I know it is an extra hassle for DE to handle the reports, but it would be unfortunate if this behaviour was allowed to continue as it will presumably lead to "not so experienced" players getting turned off from the lich mechanic. And we've seen all this before, with bosses, events and with trid hunts, just to name a few examples.

This behavior is directly caused by DE and their game design. Warframe is supposed to be a co-op game, where we work together to take down each others Liches. You are rewarded x10 traces for doing so. We WERE rewarded x10 traces to everyone that helped take down said Lich. The other bad part about this mechanic is the fact that anyone else that may wish to take out their Lich CAN NOT do so until Mr./Mrs.  Hold Everyone Hostage takes down his/hers. I would argue that if you do not want to deal with Lich's in a Lich hunting game but still want to hunt Liches? ( Sounds like a contradiction in terms to me) Then I would suggest YOU go solo until such time DE fixes this HOT MESS. NO ONE should be banned for DE's  Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo  Uniform Papa Sierra

[Marvelous_A]

10 hours ago, DarkSkysz said:

So...suicide to your lich and lose some exp and a revive just to make 3 bastards happy and get some murmurs? Ok...I can see who are the selfish here.

^

I don't even bother getting my first Lich because of this

[Raqiya]

10 hours ago, DarkSkysz said:

So...suicide to your lich and lose some exp and a revive just to make 3 bastards happy and get some murmurs? Ok...I can see who are the selfish here.

When you invite your friends to come over to play video game with you its common courtesy to not hog the controller and let others have a go. its the same with going public and killing your Lich/not Killing your Lich. 

Sure you lose some enjoyment/EXP & Revive but why did you invite your friends/go public in the first place if you weren't going to let them have a go. Who's the selfish one here?

Edited November 16, 2019 by Raqiya

[HeeBeeJeeBee]

The main issue is a conflict between the main objectives and player-choice objectives--and the expectations that go with them. Example: A main objective is met but part of the group wants to continue (if endless) or linger and farm mats or get more kills in. All legit aspects of play, but with high conflict potential. And so we have the extraction countdown to relieve that issue.

Here is my suggested fix for the lich issue: If a player has no requiem mod in first slot when stabbing, the lich kills them (you did stab them), the lich leaves, NO rank up. It's simple, preparable, noob friendly, and provides a strategic method to keep playing happily with your fellow tenno☺

Edited November 16, 2019 by HeeBeeJeeBee

[Graavarg]

2 hours ago, zoffmode said:

Lich murmurs went to whole team for barely a day, almost a week ago. DE quickly took it off claiming it was a bug.

Ok, I missed that it was removed. Great that it was! Maybe a certain number of lich farmers have missed this as well, as it pops up quite a lot in lich missions?

Edited November 16, 2019 by Graavarg

[White_Matter]

13 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

Only to people who are geared enough to handle level 100 content as easily as level 50 content despite it being twelve times harder, which is only a tiny minority of players. I did explain that previously, you should've done as I suggested and referred back to those posts.

Maybe if they are playing solo. But in that case, they can stick to solo and keep ignoring their lich, no one cares.

But lvl 100 content can be done with a squad, unless all 4 squad members are very low geared and have no idea what they are doing, in which case Lich gameplay(which is exluded from everything else anyways) isn't for them.

Like I've told you, you can't get all the benefits of playing with a squad and ignore your squad mates. That is hypocrisy. And shouldn't be tolerated in a game that is based on squad play.

[Graavarg]

3 minutes ago, HeeBeeJeeBee said:

Here is my suggestion for the lich issue: If a player has no requiem mod in first slot when stabbing, the lich kills them (you did stab them), the lich leaves, NO rank up. It's simple, preparable, noob friendly, and provides a strategic method to keep playing happily with your fellow tenno☺

👍 👍 👍