Toxic lich hunter bullies are spreading "badwill", ban them.

[Dharma-Beerlite]

4 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

Well no it isn't at all, it's just much more variable. Hunting murmurs is more reliable, gambling with the parazon can be longer and can be shorter. And if lv100 enemies slow you down at all then parazon gambling can really lengthen total times (Which is a big deal solo).

Depending on the mission type Sorte 3 level enemied can really require a specific warframe, which may not be the one that is useful to take down your lich.

Also, a steady diet of lv 60 enemies is much better for ranking up the previous Kuva weapon (assuming you don't team leach all your weapon ranking) I'm on my 12th lich and IMHO waiting until the second murmur unlocks before I try use the parazon on the lich has been optimal.

 

That's why solo/ team up with like minded members is much better choice for those wish to keep their lich below lvl 2. Joining pub game mostly likely will end up in a host with lvl 2 or higher lvl lich spawn contents.And also pissing off players that can easy 1 to 2 hits those lvl 100, also some of them are lvling their new kuva weapons over their alt slots they want higher lvl spawn to lvl faster. Most of the time i enter a lvl 5 mission in pub game everyone is hungry to seek spawns then sitting there trying to kill those 100 spawn.

[TheMightyBaloon]

I find it funny that you consider this bullying and toxicity. Yes some people tend to get out of line but someone that ignores their lich ruins the experience of others. Which is basically griefing, you are annoying other players and ruining their experience by not vanishing your own lich. 

I've had this happen multiple times while trying to test rune combinations and while I can solo liches without any issue it is much faster when 3 other players are whacking on a lich. I also can avoid the insta-death BS that happens at times.

So please people, stab/vanquish your liches, it also progresses your murmur count. Don't ruin the experience of others by ignore your lich.

[Educated_Beast]

7 hours ago, Zeclem said:

no. if a person blocks other people from progressing for no reason whatsoever, they deserve being called out on their pointless selfishness. theres absolutely no good reason to not attack your lich.

There is one good reason, you have 2 mods identified, and are 90% onto third and you will get it on that mission without killing lich. 

Now if you kill lich you get nothing and now his rage resets cause you to run 3-5 more missions.  

That is the only good reason and a thoughtful Tenno will run solo and not public if in that situation but the OP seems to be the rude person, not other way around. 

I agree, in public, kill your lich.  If someone else even takes the time to help you, walk over there and stab it.  

To get around scenario above, we need a taunt feature that can be used once per day to raise his rage level.  

I want my lich to show up.  I want to guess as many times as possible, I've gotten lucky twice already!  

Some people are not strong enough to fight lich and should never have spawned it.  Maybe a MR 15+ restriction to keep the BS the OP is defending down to a minimum.  

[ShortCat]

5 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

I ignore points that are irrelevant, and I've completed on lich hunt, enough to learn how the system works and realize that I don't want to engage with it in its current form. It's mind-boggling to me that people continue to defend it. Stockholm Symdrome abounds in the lich hunter community.

Right, one hunt is enough to make a founded opinion on all the mechanics and workings. Especially if done the worst way possible.

2 hours ago, ShortCat said:

 I have no idea who spreads this misinformation; probably the samy people who complain about 2-4 hours of grind for 1 Lich, while I avarage at 1-1.5 hours

Seems like people who hardly engaged with the system are the ones who argue, or even teach others how to do it.
If you diagnose me with Stockholm Syndrom, because I invested some time into the topic and came to a different conclusion; let me diagnose you with Dunning-Kruger.

[Graavarg]

8 minutes ago, TheMightyBaloon said:

I find it funny that you consider this bullying and toxicity.

Was in a mission this morning where an unlucky low-MR player spawned his lich, and he/she clearly did not want to kill it. Which is his/her choice, and ONLY his/her choice.

First one and then the other player writes "kill it" (or something like it in the chat), but the player runs towards extraction. The comes abuse, and finally one of the players claims to "report" this player to the DE unless he/she attacks the lich. This is clear bullying and way, way out of line.

And it is quite common. Many players simply accept that you will not kill your lich, but some a-holes don't. Also here in the thread it seems to fall into two categories, those who identify that forcing another player to do something is wrong and rude, and those who feel that they have the right to do so.

The right to not kill you lich is built into the game by DE, so that is not even up for discussion. It is self-evident, even in the description of the new mechanic. What is under discussion is the abusing of other players, in order to force them to do what you want. Since there really (to my surprise) are players that condone this kind of behaviour, I'll just report it in the future and let DE decide. 

[Marcooose]

Posting a friendly reminder to stay on topic and to avoid inflammatory comments. If the thread fails to remain on topic moving forward, it will be locked from further discussion. 

[Remedyheart]

Lich conversion is best done solo. Even when coupled with a dozen enemies at the Lich's side the conversion method is all too slow and dangerous. It's also boring and requires a lot more time commitment in a single mission alone.

Optiomal thrall spawns are 5 minutes within the start of a mission. Over 5 the spawn rates start to decrease. This mechanic was probably rated to prevent thrall abuse and promote more teamplay among players.

A full team spawns more thralls meaning more murmurs. Even having just one higher ranked lich means everyone benefits from it. So stab your thrall share the wealth and start getting those guesses in. Even netting one right requim position saves a ton of time.

So together with the boost from stab attempts along with guessing the right mod slot can potentially and drastically lowers the grind for your lich.

[SilentMobius]

32 minutes ago, Dharma-Beerlite said:

That's why solo/ team up with like minded members is much better choice for those wish to keep their lich below lvl 2. Joining pub game mostly likely will end up in a host with lvl 2 or higher lvl lich spawn contents.And also pissing off players that can easy 1 to 2 hits those lvl 100, also some of them are lvling their new kuva weapons over their alt slots they want higher lvl spawn to lvl faster. Most of the time i enter a lvl 5 mission in pub game everyone is hungry to seek spawns then sitting there trying to kill those 100 spawn.

I agree, my opening statement stated I solo my liches. I'm just saying that I can understand those who don't want to attempt to vanquish their lich. I think it's a bad situation that a valid mechanical decision from a player can create a problem for a team. To me that illustrates a weakness in the current encounter design that could use some work.

[Trvldl]

8 hours ago, Graavarg said:

• A lich is a  personal part of the game, and all should be free to do the missions exactly the way they want (without other players abusing them in chat).
• Playing a PUB mission with randoms inherently means that there is no agreed special way of doing the mission. Trying to force other random players to do it "your way" (do your bidding) is rude, bad manners, or worse. Anyone wanting a dedicated team can use the chat (or clan, or friends list) to form one. And if you really feel to need for a fellow Tenno to help you  out "in mission", you can ask nicely and politely.

A chat is also a part of the game and it's personal for you to feel abused and bullied after being told to play in team when you are practically griefing everyone in your squad.

By not killing your lich you are making 1-3 other persons to play the game your way. Anyone wanting a dedicated team can't just use recruiting without wasting huge amount of time because then they'd need to list every shared influenced node they are going to do together every time, which is solved automatically when you go for a pub. Next thing you know you'll need to add "please" when asking the person that shoots enemies or opens lockers for a full minute 20m away from extraction making 3 squadmates to wait to finally extract, or you are bullying them.

 

Basic solution would be a matchmaking mode that includes alliance or clan only, I recall conclave had something similar, so system is already there.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Trvldl

[ShortCat]

28 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

Well no it isn't at all, it's just much more variable. Hunting murmurs is more reliable, gambling with the parazon can be longer and can be shorter.

If you hunt only for Murmurs - your best case is 150 Murmurs, while your worst case is - also 150 Murmurs. Try to farm 150 of those in 15 minutes. It is also not like you progress solely with blind guesses, those are added on top of your Murmur farm. As I already mentioned, I am usually done before I reveil the last requiem.

37 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

And if lv100 enemies slow you down at all then parazon gambling can really lengthen total times (Which is a big deal solo).

I would not hunt solo, as Thrall spawns are tied to mission type and player number. A solo Defense will spawn 1 Thrall per wave. Good luck farming.

40 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

Depending on the mission type Sorte 3 level enemied can really require a specific warframe, which may not be the one that is useful to take down your lich.

Done a hunt with Oberon, Ember, Mag, Trin, Atlas...whatever I want. The most danger pose teammates radiated by Cursed Ground. Neither am I slowed down by lvl 90 enemies. If you struggle at this point, then you are doing something wrong. Melee 3.0 just askes you to have 2 working fingers to press W + E and you will win the game.

 

[clxrffdman]

Just run revenant lmao

[SammySmallBerries]

stop blaming the players regardless of thier reason for not wanting to kill a lich in the group its DE's fault for designing a system where players get peer pressured/bullied.. blame DE not the players...and ity happens alot so thanks DE

[Sagittarix]

8 hours ago, Zeclem said:

or you could show some courtesy and attack the lich so other people can get their liches to spawn as well. and by doing so you will also get your murmur

Ten bucks lying on the floor:

"I don't need this money." 

Me, trying to pick it up:

"But you can't have it either!!!" 

[chaotea]

While I agree bullying is bad, It should be pointed out that kuva liches not being dealt with can block other liches from spawning. Also, its hard to tell sometimes whos lich it is.

These problems should be dealt with for sure, and likely will. People do need to chill until then however.

[BludgePrime]

This is the most selfish thing that I have seen so far. If you join a mission where the mechanic is to stab your lich to gain progress, then please be kind to other 3 people in the group and stab your lich so they can get a chance at theirs. If you intend to be selfish and stop 3 other people from getting their lich then go solo or have a premade group. At worst let people know you won't be killing yours so we don't waste time in missions with you in group.

It would be great if after 5 knock downs (number I pulled out of thin air) the lich becomes vulnerable to get killed by other players in the group. Whether you get anything from killing another persons lich is up for debate since getting the requiems right the first time is pretty slim but it does open up a way for griefing. The way it's set up now 1 selfish person is griefing 3 others.

[SilentMobius]

44 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

If you hunt only for Murmurs - your best case is 150 Murmurs, while your worst case is - also 150 Murmurs. Try to farm 150 of those in 15 minutes. It is also not like you progress solely with blind guesses, those are added on top of your Murmur farm. As I already mentioned, I am usually done before I reveil the last requiem.

I would not hunt solo, as Thrall spawns are tied to mission type and player number. A solo Defense will spawn 1 Thrall per wave. Good luck farming.

Done a hunt with Oberon, Ember, Mag, Trin, Atlas...whatever I want. The most danger pose teammates radiated by Cursed Ground. Neither am I slowed down by lvl 90 enemies. If you struggle at this point, then you are doing something wrong. Melee 3.0 just askes you to have 2 working fingers to press W + E and you will win the game.

Almost any content in Warframe is trivial with a team, it's always possible to lean on others.

As I said, I'm on my 12th lich, only one of those came out early because of running parazon gambling. The first few were really slowed down by murmur hunting at lv5 and annoying instakills from a stray Nox, Grenade or Exotic ability.

Waiting until the second requiem mod is unlocked is much more reliable and less anoying when solo. I can understand anyone wanting to stick with a sooth, predictible gameplay experience. For those who want to gamble, the option is there.

[mrpyro12345678]

1 hour ago, Educated_Beast said:

There is one good reason, you have 2 mods identified, and are 90% onto third and you will get it on that mission without killing lich. 

Now if you kill lich you get nothing and now his rage resets cause you to run 3-5 more missions.  

Actually, it's almost guaranteed for the Lich to spawn. I had got Vughba to spawn almost on every mission, like 5/8 of them. By killing the lich you get the last mod, making you save up some runs.

[mrpyro12345678]

1 hour ago, Remedyheart said:

Lich conversion is best done solo.

What the heck?! Conversion and Killing is basically the same, the process literally doesn't change! How can Lich Conversion be done the best solo the best if lich killing in general is best done in team?!

[mrpyro12345678]

1 hour ago, Graavarg said:

The right to not kill you lich is built into the game by DE, so that is not even up for discussion. It is self-evident, even in the description of the new mechanic. What is under discussion is the abusing of other players, in order to force them to do what you want. Since there really (to my surprise) are players that condone this kind of behaviour, I'll just report it in the future and let DE decide. 

You really think it's not killing the actual lich boss? I think it talks about the choice, to spare or to kill. Convert or get the gun. The Desc most likely tells you about the ability to convert liches to your side, so you get a friend.

[8faiNt]

who is bullying who? sure im not saying it justifies the swears or other stuff but as far as not killing liches goes you're the leech here dont play public if you're not a team player and cant handle team work if you want the benefit of playing public stand up for your actions and kill your lich instead of being an useless brat just do what you have to do you're being equally toxic and trolling the mission by blocking everyone's liches

I agree with you on this one though

9 hours ago, Graavarg said:

This idiocy should be stopped, by any means necessary.

 

Edited November 15, 2019 by 8faiNt

[Lokidus_Prime]

I do agree with several points made by the OP regarding players bullying others into attacking their liches, but I do not agree with them being banned for it.  Whether multiple Liches can spawn at once or not (I've never seen this happen personally despite running with friends who also have active liches on the same planets), both sides have valid arguments as to why one should or shouldn't attack their lich.  The source of this issue lies in how the lich's mechanics were designed and if this problem is going to be fixed, something with those mechanics needs to be changed.  The easiest solution is to add in a way to drive off your lich without it insta-killing you and becoming stronger.  That said, I'm also of the mind that playing Reverse Russian Roulette with your lich feels very cheap and not fun and that the whole interaction should be changed, but that's a topic for another thread.

[mrpyro12345678]

5 hours ago, Test-995 said:

As if not killing lich causes actual problem for the real objective... or simply "mission itself".

Yes it does, the Lich is trying to kill other players, and even succeeds sometimes (My Lich's Janus Key beam is overpowered, kinda). After that the Lich levels up anyways for some dumb reason.

[Xenonthetenno]

Sure, you can park your car bloking the parking lot entrance

Noone can get in or get out but who cares? People are free to place their car where they want.

 

On the same, r4nd0mguy1331, as a player who got Radiation status, is free to shoot whatever he want. 

You do whatever you can to not level up your lich, and he'll do whatever he can to spawn his.

Dont blame him, he's just doing his best to spawn his lich

[mrpyro12345678]

2 hours ago, SordidDreams said:

Out of curiosity, what's your definition of a bug, then? 

A bug exploits the weaknesses of coding, and makes the game do unintended things.
Example, Kerbal Spaghettification in KSP. Code apparently is flimsy enough for a Kerbal to be spaghettified if high enough pressure is applied.
In the running-out-of-lich-missions case, nothing exploits coding, it just is unaccounted for, nobody in the team expected for someone to complete all lich missions there are.

[SordidDreams]

2 hours ago, ShortCat said:

Right, one hunt is enough to make a founded opinion on all the mechanics and workings. Especially if done the worst way possible.

Some of us learn faster than others. And you have no idea how I did my hunt, so kindly keep your uninformed and therefore worthless opinions on that to yourself. I'll engage with whatever factual arguments you might muster, but I won't hesitate to call out your BS.

2 hours ago, ShortCat said:

If you diagnose me with Stockholm Syndrom, because I invested some time into the topic and came to a different conclusion; let me diagnose you with Dunning-Kruger.

D-K is a cognitive bias, i.e. not something people can be diagnosed with, though I must say an attempt to 'diagnose' someone with a nondiagnosable bias that makes people think they're smarter than they really are has a wonderful irony to it.

Edited November 15, 2019 by SordidDreams