Do you think PVP can be successful ?

[DeMonkey]

Just now, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

This just isn't the case, and you are being purposely close minded to avoid other people's point. That's not a good arguing point for something as subjective as a competitive mode. 

I am not.

7 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

However I'm referring to the sizeable community of players who actively dueled, posted youtube videos and such like. 

^

If it weren't obvious, I'm not referring to those who happen along another player, or are in the process of leveling. But rather the active dueling commu... wait, I already said that.

[(XBOX)GameGhost123]

1 minute ago, Grave.Knight said:

Not with a peer-to-peer network. They need proper dedicated servers. That being said I don't think PVP really appeals to your average Warframe player. They'd be better off making a separate IP. Then again, considering how Amazing Eternals turned out (ironically not that amazingly)...maybe they should just stick with PVE.

They already do just stick with pve. Their focus on conclave is abysmal how is it supposed to ever be successful if they never focus on it?

[Corvid]

9 minutes ago, (XB1)GameGhost123 said:

They already do just stick with pve. Their focus on conclave is abysmal how is it supposed to ever be successful if they never focus on it?

Every time they have focused on it, it hasn't been worth it. You'd have an argument if they had just released PvP and abandoned it, but they didn't. They tried to get PvP off the ground no less than three separate times, each taking up successively larger portions of dev resources, and none of them resulted in a significant increase in lasting player counts for the mode.

At this point, it's clear to anyone who's actually looking at the data that any dev time put into PvP is essentially wasted, no matter what an incredibly vocal minority would like to claim.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

3 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

I am not.

You are too. You have several people who enjoy the competitive nature of the game and telling them that the thrill they get, doesn't exist. 

I have some surprising information for you. 

Winning is fun. 

15 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

If it weren't obvious, I'm not referring to those who happen along another player, or are in the process of leveling

Accept that if my friends come online, and they want to farm Eidolons, credits, plat, kuva weapons, railjack or any host of other things, conclave puts that all on the backburner with nothing to offer players. I'm not going to say "No, Sorry guys. I have to do another conclave match. Just put the Eidolon on hold. You'll be willing to wait for another lunar cycle right??? Right? 

I'm in the process of leveling a dozen or so frames after I went on a forma binge. I'm not going into conclave with a level 1 warframe. When warframe has so many other activities that provide progress to new gear, or something I want, its going to be prioritized. 

Every PvP game in recent memory that I can think off rewards you and gives you incentives for PvP. Destiny certainly makes a point to try to reward PvP and PvE. Other games like Final Fantasy give PvP special weapons and armor to use. Other games like CoD unlock more weapons for you to play with and more gear to PvP. While I certainly have more PvP mods, 

None of them can be used in PvE as much as I wish they would be allowed. Come on, at least the stances. Let me see if they are good or not DE >.>

[DeMonkey]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

You have several people who enjoy the competitive nature of the game and telling them that the thrill they get, doesn't exist. 

I'm not even remotely doing that nor can you quote me saying that. You're in the small number of players who enjoy conclave and it's current reward structure. Hell, do you think I didn't enjoy my Conclave wins?

I'm also telling you that if Conclave were actually a good PvP mode it would be enjoyable to a much larger number of people, people who wouldn't need a reward to incentivise them to play it.

To remind you, the post you quoted initially was in response to someone saying that Conclave is a good mode and a beautiful treasure.

If it were actually good, more people would be playing it.

8 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Every PvP game in recent memory that I can think off rewards you and gives you incentives for PvP

I mean, really? Smite and Counter Strike (last I checked) have nothing more than cosmetics available in game, and they're not the most friendly games in allowing you to unlock these things just by playing.

I have Diamond Sun Wukong in Smite, I have nothing left to unlock with him, I still play him because it's enjoyable though.

[(XBOX)GameGhost123]

2 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

 

I'm also telling you that if Conclave were actually a good PvP mode it would be enjoyable to a much larger number of people, people who wouldn't need a reward to incentivise them to play it.

Conclave is good , the ppl that enjoy conclave without needing a reward to incentivize it already do play it for that reason.  But if we are to grow the conclave population there needs to be rewards to incentivize it. Warframe is a looter shooter as i said before. Warframe is all about the grind and getting new gear/items. 

[DeMonkey]

25 minutes ago, (XB1)GameGhost123 said:

Conclave is good

 

33 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

if Conclave were actually a good PvP mode it would be enjoyable to a much larger number of people

 

[(XBOX)GameGhost123]

14 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

 

 

If you're worried about the number of ppl playing conclave then push DE to add more incentive or in your personal case "fun/enjoyment" to conclave. 

[DeMonkey]

15 minutes ago, (XB1)GameGhost123 said:

If you're worried about the number of ppl playing conclave

I'm not even remotely worried. 

[DeccanTraps]

2 hours ago, (XB1)GameGhost123 said:

Exactly conclave just needs some more incentive for pve players to start grinding it and then alot of ppl will realize how good it is. Alot of the community complaining about conclave are ppl with 0 conclave kills and they're spreading bad publicity about it which leads to more ppl not playing just for the fact that they've heard conclave is trash or dead from somoeone else even tho its not. Ppl need to try it out for themselves rather than relying on what other ppl think.

... How can I put this? I would sooner eat my own testicles and folow up by licking piss off a nettle than indulge in pvp. I have logged, something over a thouand hours in this game and spent a moderate fortune on plat ( Not because I need it, but because I want to support DE ) in part because there is no pvp crudding up my experiance.

I'm not logging to conclave, not becase I havent tried it, but because I have an actave dislike of it.
Attempts to lure me in to PvP will have the opposite effect, if theres anything signifigant gated behind PvP performance? A new frame weapon or the like? I'm gone and Warframe joins Firefall in the great graveyard of games that missed their own point. This is what a lot of sugestions about how to get more people playing PvP do not grasp.

If PvP is worth doing it should be for intrinsic motavation (Ie the core play is fun) not extrinsic ones (I need to do this to get a desired object) or what you are saying is 'This is not doing without giving people a bribe' along with 'I dont care about other participant's enjoyment, I just want more people in the lobbies'.

And the thing is, the best way to get PvP right is to make it the focus of a game! That game, focused on pure comptition and skill on skill? It is not, will not cannot ever be Warframe.
And its waerying, even a little worrying for people like me to see the constant sugestions because time after time after time really good promising games get ruined by first adding pvp, then bribing people into it and then gradually the focus that drew us in was lost. And you know, I'd be has hard on traffic on the other direrction, making a game like Overwatch whose desighns I admire and whose playmode I abhoar more progression and PvE based would be great for me. I don't want it because its not Overwatch's 'job' to cater to me and I shoudnt go insisting on changes of core focus to please me.

I'm going to let you all in on a wee secret aye? Its ok to have multiple games on the go at one time. I play Warframe in evenings a few hours with my clan close freinds I know from else where. But you know the crafting side the resorce side? Its not all it could be. I dont constantly lobby to change warframe into some kind of farming sim, I just play Stardew Valley or My time At Portia. In doing so I find the enjoyment of both games enriched becuase I am not overdosed on their flaws nor habituated to their virtues.

Warframe will never be the PvP experiance you deserve, and trying to make it so will take away the PvE experiance that enchants so many more people than PvP here. But Theres half a dosen character focused pure PvP games out there several of them FTP, and it hurts no one to play those for what they are, while accepting and enjoying warframe for what it is and to stop trying to reanimate a dead horse already beaten to steak tartare.

[(XBOX)GameGhost123]

3 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

I'm not even remotely worried. 

You've been telling us that if conclave were actually a good pvp mode then it would be more enjoyable to a larger population of ppl right? How does 1 improve a game mode in a game that the developer of wont focus on or incentivize? The majority of ppl in this thread are trying to push the conclave community forward. Whether its fun/enjoyment or rewards out of conclave ppl want nothing gets done or improved without growing the conclave community so that its a large enough voice to make DE acknowledge and think maybe we should focus on this. 

[(XBOX)GameGhost123]

2 minutes ago, DeccanTraps said:

... How can I put this? I would sooner eat my own testicles and folow up by licking piss off a nettle than indulge in pvp. I have logged, something over a thouand hours in this game and spent a moderate fortune on plat ( Not because I need it, but because I want to support DE ) in part because there is no pvp crudding up my experiance.

 

Warframe will never be the PvP experiance you deserve, and trying to make it so will take away the PvE experiance that enchants so many more people than PvP here. But Theres half a dosen character focused pure PvP games out there several of them FTP, and it hurts no one to play those for what they are, while accepting and enjoying warframe for what it is and to stop trying to reanimate a dead horse already beaten to steak tartare.

You dont want to play pvp then dont. I never said anything about it ruining the pve experience. They can also remain separate entirely from each other as they are now. But there shouldn't be a problem on trying to grow the pvp side of things. 

[DeccanTraps]

5 minutes ago, (XB1)GameGhost123 said:

You dont want to play pvp then dont. I never said anything about it ruining the pve experience. They can also remain separate entirely from each other as they are now. But there shouldn't be a problem on trying to grow the pvp side of things. 

You also said you wanted progression relevant incentaves on PvP, that is not the keeping enterly seperate, that is the thin edge of the wedge.

As soon as there is something that impacts play ( I am fine with pvp cosmetics just to be clear) gained only by PvP, then I am faced with 2 options.
1: go without, and suffer worse experiance for the lack, making all subsequent content less fun if it would have been usefull.
2: go into PvP spend the barest grudging minimum on getting it, meaning my limited Warframe time is generating no fun, possibly anti-fun.

Neither of these are good options. Neither of these are a PvP free experiance. Neither of these is an air gapped enterly seperate devision (which as I explained earlyer, is stil taking dev time and resorcs from content that the vast majority will use, and giving it to content only a miniscule minority will use).

[(XBOX)GameGhost123]

2 minutes ago, DeccanTraps said:

You also said you wanted progression relevant incentaves on PvP, that is not the keeping enterly seperate, that is the thin edge of the wedge.

As soon as there is something that impacts play ( I am fine with pvp cosmetics just to be clear) gained only by PvP, then I am faced with 2 options.
1: go without, and suffer worse experiance for the lack, making all subsequent content less fun if it would have been usefull.
2: go into PvP spend the barest grudging minimum on getting it, meaning my limited Warframe time is generating no fun, possibly anti-fun.

Neither of these are good options. Neither of these are a PvP free experiance. Neither of these is an air gapped enterly seperate devision (which as I explained earlyer, is stil taking dev time and resorcs from content that the vast majority will use, and giving it to content only a miniscule minority will use).

I actually never said anything about progression relevant incentives for pvp. Rewards come in all forms bro doesn't have to coincide with the pve side of things. Incentivizing pve players to play conclave can just be for cosmetics,  resources that aren't pvp exclusive,  arcanes that aren't pvp exclusive,  mods that aren't pvp exclusive.  Theres plenty of ways to incentivize the conclave side for pve players without actually messing with anything in the pve side of things. 

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

It could, but it would need some love from both DE and the community.

1 - Make Lunaro and PvP tournament events that rotate and give a couple exclusive items (the Lunaro ball wpn that was promised for example). Think of iron banner in Destiny.

2 - Use index maps to create a gambit-like gamemode where teams fight to deposit points. Bring back solar rails defense where WF mods get progressively unlocked as time passes.

3 - Make a conclave gamemode where you can use fully modded PvE setups with zero of the balance from the gimped new "balanced" system. We already have fully modded dojo fights, just expand it so we can actually fight other players with our full kits. I miss old unbalanced PvP and playing unmodded frames and wpns imho suck.

4 - Finally make stalker mode available to add a PvP invasion system to the game.

[(XBOX)GameGhost123]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

It could, but it would need some love from both DE and the community.

1 - Make Lunaro and PvP tournament events that rotate and give a couple exclusive items (the Lunaro ball wpn that was promised for example). Think of iron banner in Destiny.

2 - Use index maps to create a gambit-like gamemode where teams fight to deposit points. Bring back solar rails defense where WF mods get progressively unlocked as time passes.

3 - Make a conclave gamemode where you can use fully modded PvE setups with zero of the balance from the gimped new "balanced" system. We already have fully modded dojo fights, just expand it so we can actually fight other players with our full kits. I miss old unbalanced PvP and playing unmodded frames and wpns imho suck.

4 - Finally make stalker mode available to add a PvP invasion system to the game.

Yup definitely would be cool and if ppl are worried about a lunaro weapon messing with anything progressional based in the pve side of things alls they gotta do is remove the ability to gain mastery from it. Simple solution. 

[DeccanTraps]

I'd just like to say that, I'm going to bow out of this one at this point.
I dont think I'm going to convince any one.
I am certain no one is going to convince me.
And between it feeling dishonest to participate on that basis, and really just not liking the negitivity it brings out in me I dont see any value in my continues participation.
So this is the moast polite and respectfull 'walking away but conceding nothing' I can muster. Take care.

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

Actually think PvP needs it's own unique, quality rewards... But the current reward system needs a rework too, as there are already way too many mods and wpn skins already, coupled with the fact you need to LVL ur syndicate to the max, making the grind depressing to anyone, especially in a dead gamemode where you can't even find matches to grind the standing needed.

Basically, there's tons of expensive rewards that suck currently. I would rather have less , but more meaningful rewards, and the game award more mods and skins as part of matches and events.

Also think conclave need bots. Heck, just fill the teams with rathuum and index guys if you don't want to bother with good WF PvP ai. I want to be able to play the gamemode 24/7, not click it and waiting for an hour in an empty lobby.

Edited February 12, 2020 by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra

[(XBOX)GameGhost123]

10 minutes ago, DeccanTraps said:

I'd just like to say that, I'm going to bow out of this one at this point.
I dont think I'm going to convince any one.
I am certain no one is going to convince me.
And between it feeling dishonest to participate on that basis, and really just not liking the negitivity it brings out in me I dont see any value in my continues participation.
So this is the moast polite and respectfull 'walking away but conceding nothing' I can muster. Take care.

Understandable 

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

6 hours ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

Use index maps to create a gambit-like gamemode where teams fight to deposit points

You mean, use Conclave maps to create a gambit-like mode. All of those index maps are literally Conclave maps in PvE.

6 hours ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

Bring back solar rails defense where WF mods get progressively unlocked as time passes.

I always thought that game mode was fun.

 

6 hours ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

Make a conclave gamemode where you can use fully modded PvE setups with zero of the balance from the gimped new "balanced" system.

I support this unironicallly. Or perhaps even using the Conclave maps with the simulacrum.

[(XBOX)CFE Vulari]

Railjack pvp sounds awesome. I got the 360 vision. I'd smoke any of your friends who claim to be gunners!!! Letzzz do ettt

[(XBOX)Chroma Prime]

10 hours ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

Actually think PvP needs it's own unique, quality rewards... But the current reward system needs a rework too, as there are already way too many mods and wpn skins already, coupled with the fact you need to LVL ur syndicate to the max, making the grind depressing to anyone, especially in a dead gamemode where you can't even find matches to grind the standing needed.

Basically, there's tons of expensive rewards that suck currently. I would rather have less , but more meaningful rewards, and the game award more mods and skins as part of matches and events.

Also think conclave need bots. Heck, just fill the teams with rathuum and index guys if you don't want to bother with good WF PvP ai. I want to be able to play the gamemode 24/7, not click it and waiting for an hour in an empty lobby.

I disagree. I don't think anything should be locked behind PvP in Warframe. At least not anything more than cosmetics. I think it would be cool to see some more skins and sigils from the Conclave Syndicate. Maybe an animated Conclave sigil?

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

29 minutes ago, (XB1)Chroma Prime said:

I disagree. I don't think anything should be locked behind PvP in Warframe. At least not anything more than cosmetics. I think it would be cool to see some more skins and sigils from the Conclave Syndicate. Maybe an animated Conclave sigil?

Nobody is gong to play if the rewards are not cool and exclusive. Again they don't have to be ultra-hard to get, but just putting a couple must-own items in there would be enough to make people revisit the gamemode every now and then , especially when a big event/tournament comes.

Reminds me of destiny. I myself don't particularly like PVP in that game, yet whenever there's a new iron banner season with a new cool armor sets, cool new weapons and such, so I play it pretty intensively for a week or so, usually having some fun in the process. If there were no exclusive rewards, I would simply never play the game mode at all (kind like in wf right now).

I'm sure some people would complain loudly about being forced to PVP, but if it's a reasonable about of hours asked of the player, it wouldn't really be worse than any other event like plague star or thermia fractures, where you repeat the same menial task 100+ times . At least PVP is always different due to fighting actual players.

Edited February 13, 2020 by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

Nobody is gong to play if the rewards are not cool and exclusive

We already have cool and exclusive cosmetics. Locking gear (which would directly affect progression in the game) behind Conclave is just going to frustrate the portion of the playerbase that doesn't do PvP.

 

4 hours ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

but just putting a couple must-own items in there would be enough to make people revisit the gamemode every now and then

In a perfect world, I would agree with you. But we exist in a community that has been socially programmed to be anti-pvp. There would be ceaseless complaint threads by the community about this. Even if it isn't inherently a bad idea.

4 hours ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

I'm sure some people would complain loudly about being forced to PVP, but if it's a reasonable about of hours asked of the player, it wouldn't really be worse than any other event like plague star or thermia fractures, where you repeat the same menial task 100+ times . At least PVP is always different due to fighting actual players.

You raise a really good point and I even agree with you. I'm just saying that the people in this community would be really upset about it.

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

On 2020-02-12 at 5:58 AM, DeMonkey said:

if Conclave were actually a good PvP mode it would be enjoyable to a much larger number of people

Lots of people thought eating tide pods was a good thing. Public opinion does not determine the quality of the subject in question