Do you think PVP can be successful ?

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

16 minutes ago, DeccanTraps said:

And really, trying to PvP in warframe is like orderng a hamburger at a proper ityalian pitza place. You'll probibly get one but you are missing the point amd there almoast certainly a place nearby that is more focussed on giving you what you want.

To add to this point the 1 or 2 people going to this Italian restaurant for hamburgers are convinced that it's a McDonald's and keep trying to convince others that's is a fast food place

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

1 hour ago, (XB1)The Neko Otaku said:

To add to this point the 1 or 2 people going to this Italian restaurant for hamburgers are convinced that it's a McDonald's and keep trying to convince others that's is a fast food place

You may have had a point like 7 years ago when Warframe didn't have PvP, but its been in the game for a long time now. Nobody is asking for Warframe to become a PvP game. We just want some more developer attention for the portions of the game that is PvP.

[(XBOX)CFE Vulari]

1 hour ago, DeccanTraps said:

The Thing about PvP is it has to be baked in from the start. The demands in progression, net code, engine and item balance are all too differnt to those of PvE.

And really, trying to PvP in warframe is like orderng a hamburger at a proper ityalian pitza place. You'll probibly get one but you are missing the point amd there almoast certainly a place nearby that is more focussed on giving you what you want.

Thats to say nothing of the effects on a comunity of having people go from fellow players to actave competitors.

And, wellnot to be blunt? We were given reall meaningfull PvP, the dark sectors lead to more DDOS attacks than actual in game ones.

Inconclusion: no, stop asking, find one of several FTP PVP games and scratch the itch there, every one will be happyer and you'll burn out on both games more slowly wih the variety.

   Lol. Um... where to start...

1) PvP has been in warframe from the start and has a fairly large following even after being put on the back burner for years.

2) The conclave balancing isn't the pvp balance and was added much later.

3) Dark Sectors never actually caused any DDOS attacks. The rumor that someone was DDOSing a rail to prevent people from launching on it was just that, a rumor. What actually was happening was a bug that was addressed by DE much later. And you couldn't change the schema and stop people from being able to launch on it either. Trust me... I tried...

4) The same thing can be said to you. Go play a different game. Plenty of mob killers out there. Warframe has always had both elements, pvp and PvE, it's a huge draw in games such as these. However I'm not saying that to you., and I don't want them to take away PvE. I think we should both be able to play. And with pvp as popular as it is with little or no attention paid to it as DE rushed to fend off the PvE burnout, should speak for itself. 

5) PvE has had years of content and YOUR pve community is what is burning out. There are plenty of pvpers waiting for conclave balancing, and DS conflicts. Plenty of content creators that left warframe commenting that it could use a competitive endgame. Just look at all the discussions on this forum. That's too many people to call a burnout

 

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

21 minutes ago, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said:

You may have had a point like 7 years ago when Warframe didn't have PvP, but its been in the game for a long time now. Nobody is asking for Warframe to become a PvP game. We just want some more developer attention for the portions of the game that is PvP.

I still have have a point cause no one plays warframe for pvp. If i want to play pvp I'll play halo not empty lobby simulator. I hope conclave keeps getting neglected like it deserves.

[----Legacy----]

14 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

Given that the Warframe total playerbase is in the millions, that would be a no, then.

Yeah, around 50 millions of registered players.

However, a quick look at steamcharts shows that warframe's all time peak on steam was 131.2K players, and if you multiply that for 5 platforms and then (NSW, PS4, XB1, Steam, PC Standalone) you get 656K players and that's assuming that all platforms share a similar amount of players. I think it's worth noting that warframe's player count on steam is currently below half the all time peak (currently registering peaks of 60.890 active players and an average of 36.115 active players/hour) so even if we go just by the maths gotten from the all time peak we can say that warframe has around 1 million of active players (and that's being very generous) which added to the 50 millions of registered players says a lot about warframe's overall  player retention capabilities and also says that using your "endless millions of registered players" to compare anything is straight lies.

[DeccanTraps]

1 hour ago, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said:

You may have had a point like 7 years ago when Warframe didn't have PvP, but its been in the game for a long time now. Nobody is asking for Warframe to become a PvP game. We just want some more developer attention for the portions of the game that is PvP.

why? when there are games that are innately more focussed on providing a satusfying PVP experiance?

Why try cram it in here too?

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

2 hours ago, DeccanTraps said:

why? when there are games that are innately more focussed on providing a satusfying PVP experiance?

Why try cram it in here too?

PvP wasn't actually too bad in warframe. The biggest complaint is the lack of movement impairing abilities to catch people. 

-Veteran of Conclave, and dark sector conflicts. 

[Corvid]

10 hours ago, (XB1)CFE Vulari said:

PvP has been in warframe from the start

No, it hasn't.

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

5 hours ago, DeccanTraps said:

The Thing about PvP is it has to be baked in from the start

PvP has indeed been baked into Warframe since the start. It has been in Warframe since the middle of 2013.
 

 

5 hours ago, DeccanTraps said:

The demands in progression, net code, engine and item balance are all too differnt to those of PvE.

No. The progression, net code, and engine are the exact same as they are in PvE. I can't possibly imagine how you could believe that the engine is different in Conclave. That's been one of the more ignorant things I've read on these forums lol.

The item balance in Conclave is necessarily different than that of PvE. Starting with Conclave 2.0, the stats of the items in Conclave were determined by a multiplier that a dev in DE decided upon. Usually the multiplier was in the form of a decimal. This was a smart, albeit lazy solution. It worked tremendously well and if DE ever needed to adjust the damage numbers of something, they could just adjust the multiplier. The EHP of frames were determined by their mobility (this was previous to them adding the "mobility" stat to Conclave, but they both affected correlated with EHP in the same way). Certain abilities were adjusted to be more fitting in PvP. For example, Hysteria no longer made Valkyr invulnerable, for an example, although it did give her 50% damage reduction. 
Item balance / Frame Balance was handed very well by DE and it isn't something to fault them on.
 

6 hours ago, DeccanTraps said:

And really, trying to PvP in warframe is like orderng a hamburger at a proper ityalian pitza place

If they didn't want people ordering hamburgers at that restaurant they would not have put it on the menu. If the restaurant is renowned for its quality and customer service, one could expect that everything on the menu would be high quality.

7 hours ago, DeccanTraps said:

You'll probibly get one but you are missing the point

Missing the point? The point was that it was on the menu and able to be ordered by customers. This whole analogy is predicated on the belief that someone would order something that isn't served at the restaurant, but a person would never do that. The person can only order something if it is on the menu. In the case of Warframe, PvP is on the menu. And it should be as high quality as everything else served at the restaurant.

7 hours ago, DeccanTraps said:

amd there almoast certainly a place nearby that is more focussed on giving you what you want

We don't want the other hamburger. That's why we are not at that restaurant. We want the hamburger that is served at the restaurant we are currently in.

9 hours ago, DeccanTraps said:

Thats to say nothing of the effects on a comunity of having people go from fellow players to actave competitors

Oh man, people might have to compete against each other. That would be an atrocity. I personally have no idea how I would recover mentally and emotionally if I was ever forced to compete against someone in a video game. I would need years of therapy. Unfathomable are the horrors brought about by competition in a video game.

9 hours ago, DeccanTraps said:

And, wellnot to be blunt? We were given reall meaningfull PvP, the dark sectors

Yes. Those were pretty epic. I can't wait for them to return.
 

 

9 hours ago, DeccanTraps said:

lead to more DDOS attacks than actual in game ones

An unsubstantiated rumor. There is no evidence of this. I've talked with numerous warlords of clans across every platform that had Solar Rails and none of them knew anything about anybody doing any sort of DDOS attacks because of Solar Rails. We thought we were getting DDOSed on Xbox while our Rails were active, turned out to be the lizard squad attacks on Xbox as a whole. It was a coincidence for us, and it was most likely a coincidence for you.

9 hours ago, DeccanTraps said:

Inconclusion: no, stop asking,

PvP is already in Warframe. We won that battle 6 years ago.

9 hours ago, DeccanTraps said:

find one of several FTP PVP games

Oh, I get it now. You think all PvP is the same. Call of Duty and Dota are the exact same games to you. You aren't capable of perceiving the difference in the PvP modes and mechanics across games. Do you genuinely think Conclave and Rainbow 6 are the same because they are both PvP?

12 hours ago, DeccanTraps said:

scratch the itch there

No other game has the complex and high intensity gameplay that Conclave provides. From loadout diversity to map design, DE has crafted a brilliant PvP experience over the years. No other game can compare.

 

[Teridax68]

10 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Yeah, around 50 millions of registered players.

However, a quick look at steamcharts shows that warframe's all time peak on steam was 131.2K players, and if you multiply that for 5 platforms and then (NSW, PS4, XB1, Steam, PC Standalone) you get 656K players and that's assuming that all platforms share a similar amount of players. I think it's worth noting that warframe's player count on steam is currently below half the all time peak (currently registering peaks of 60.890 active players and an average of 36.115 active players/hour) so even if we go just by the maths gotten from the all time peak we can say that warframe has around 1 million of active players (and that's being very generous) which added to the 50 millions of registered players says a lot about warframe's overall  player retention capabilities and also says that using your "endless millions of registered players" to compare anything is straight lies.

But the exact same can be said of the assertion that there are 5000 active Conclave players. Putting aside how the number appears to be a gross exaggeration, it was also based off of people in a Discord server, without any confirmation on who actually plays Conclave, let alone to any regular extent. Thus, the claim that there are thousands of simultaneously active Conclave players is itself a lie, or at least a misrepresentation.

The saddest part about this is that even if we were to take these exaggerated claims and match them up to facts, it would still not paint a pretty picture. Even if 5k players among 36k were constantly playing Conclave, that's still over 85% of the playerbase that doesn't touch the mode. As such, the handful of people insisting upon the non-insignificance of the Conclave community in Warframe are the living embodiment of this meme.

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

1 hour ago, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said:

No other game has the complex and high intensity gameplay that Conclave provides. From loadout diversity to map design, DE has crafted a brilliant PvP experience over the years. No other game can compare.

 

Call of duty advance warfare is basically conclave but has that thing that you will never experience, a playerbase

[(XBOX)CFE Vulari]

5 hours ago, (XB1)The Neko Otaku said:

Call of duty advance warfare is basically conclave but has that thing that you will never experience, a playerbase

      No. Just... No. I was rank 1 master division of league play in BO2. I took three clans to diamond in ghost. I got the new modern warfare and kept a 2.0 using only the combat knife. (Got the knife and shield plat, boo ya) I founded CFE, and took the highest player kill count overall in warframe. 

    So please, you can hate on PvP all you like, but please trust me when I say that a realistic fps is not any way similar to a 3rd person scyfy dog fight , where I fly through the air snapping shots at a million miles an hr. 

  Cheers

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

20 minutes ago, (XB1)CFE Vulari said:

      No. Just... No. I was rank 1 master division of league play in BO2. I took three clans to diamond in ghost. I got the new modern warfare and kept a 2.0 using only the combat knife. (Got the knife and shield plat, boo ya) I founded CFE, and took the highest player kill count overall in warframe. 

And i should care why? No seriously why should i care about this. Woop dee doo you boosted kills

21 minutes ago, (XB1)CFE Vulari said:

So please, you can hate on PvP all you like, but please trust me when I say that a realistic fps is not any way similar to a 3rd person scyfy dog fight , where I fly through the air snapping shots at a million miles an hr

You do know im referring to advance warfare where have mech suits that let run jump dash like crazy, basically warframe conclave but keep bragging about fictional feats in a video game to look cool.

[Corvid]

7 hours ago, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said:

PvP has indeed been baked into Warframe since the start. It has been in Warframe since the middle of 2013.

As someone who was playing back then, I can testify that it was definitely not there "From the start". And even when it did start to trickle in, it was only ever a tiny side activity with effectively 0 dev focus. Not exactly "Baked In".

8 hours ago, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said:

If they didn't want people ordering hamburgers at that restaurant they would not have put it on the menu. If the restaurant is renowned for its quality and customer service, one could expect that everything on the menu would be high quality.

Exactly why many players, including myself, advocate for its removal. It's not high quality, and all previous attempts to make it so have been rejected by the playerbase at large, so better for DE to cut their losses.

8 hours ago, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said:

PvP is already in Warframe. We won that battle 6 years ago.

And the playerbase has overall rejected it. Also, nice job trying to take credit for something that happened long before you joined.

[(XBOX)TheLastDax]

7 hours ago, (XB1)The Neko Otaku said:

Call of duty advance warfare is basically conclave but has that thing that you will never experience, a playerbase

You must be trolling. The differences between them are innumerable. 

[(NSW)Quarky]

To all of those who's only gripe about conclave is that "it ded" - well, you should be the change and give it a try. Nearly to rank 3 in the conclave on NSW. Get on my level, lmao.

[(XBOX)CFE Vulari]

2 minutes ago, (NSW)Quarky said:

To all of those who's only gripe about conclave is that "it ded" - well, you should be the change and give it a try. Nearly to rank 3 in the conclave on NSW. Get on my level, lmao.

You're my new favorite.

1 hour ago, (XB1)The Neko Otaku said:

And i should care why? No seriously why should i care about this. Woop dee doo you boosted kills

 

    Boosted kills? Kinda an unfounded accusation rather than a reply, but it's fine, because you may have misheard me. CFE holds the title for highest player kill count, sitting at around 1.5 million tenno killed. I definitely don't have the highest kd. I usually only played against tryhard CFE players who RUINED my kd. Those guys can be jerks 

>.>

<.<

Jk love you guys

[MystMan]

When I started there was no pvp.  People were asking for it, though. 

1 They added the dojo pvp rooms. Nothing major about it, just for giggles. It had no balancing at all since it used pve stats,battles would literally take only 2 seconds to end most times. People kept asking for more.

2 Then came conclave 1.0 where it was 1v1 or 2v2 matches on specific starchart nodes. People kept asking for more.

3 Then came the Solar Rails. The zero-balancing issues from dojo pvp was still there. Skill barely mattered, it was a gear check. Groups that brought the best (cheese) frames & weapons had an unfair advantage. If you wanted to beat that, you had to join that bandwagon. Some frames had their first versions of press-4-to-win skills back then, there was no defense against them once they got unlocked, the battle was already decided at that point. People who dished out this cheapness obviously remember this game mode with rose-colored glasses, not so much if you were on the receiving end. This and all the taxing fiasco just made the whole thing a failure for everybody not in the alliance cartels. They shut it down and people kept asking for more.

4 Then came conclave 2.0 and the chore of having to re-balance everything for it. It has no proper matchmaking skills or an in-game mechanic to close that gap (think Blue Shell from Mario Kart). This fails to retain novice players and only hardcore players stick around. People kept asking for more. ("lack of rewards" was never its problem, stop bringing that up)

5 Lunaro was introduced. Dead on arrival. People kept asking for more.

6 DE's other pvp game, The Amazing Eternals gets shut down before leaving closed beta. Most people didn't even know this existed to ask for more. (Personally I think that instead of making this, they should've made Warframe conclave as its own separate game as it was already very popular)

 

Warframe is now 7 years old. Its playerbase is vehemently established to be PVE-based. Nothing wrong with that, pvp isn't a mandatory content that all online games must have.
You got to give DE credit for trying this many times to attempt their hand at pvp. Other game studios would've stopped after one attempt. And for the umpteenth time because still too many people believe this, they had no hand in the core design of the Unreal Tournament games, that was all Epic. DE only assisted in designing some models and maps, not the gameplay and the engine.

If you like conclave as it is now, enjoy it and be happy it's there at all and not removed like trials, since it doesn't cause game-breaking bugs to the rest of the game. But I don't expect DE to spend any more resources and time into it, based on the multitude of attempts I numbered above. It's just not economically sound anymore to do so in a 7 year old game. To still think that conclave can be salvaged and become popular is like the players who still stick around train wrecks like Fallout76 and Anthem. if you can't fix a disaster within 1 year of launch (like No Man's Sky), it just ain't happening.

I'm a numbers-and-facts guy, I don't do wishful thinking that the power of friendship and plot armor can make Warframe into a pvp powerhouse. If conclave as it is today was added since day 1, it might actually have been a success. But a lot of players of today would then never even have bothered to try this game out since they specifically came here for a pve-only experience. In this alternate timeline, who knows how Warframe would have fared 7 years later. 

[(XBOX)CFE Vulari]

56 minutes ago, MystMan said:

When I started there was no pvp.  People were asking for it, though. 

1 They added the dojo pvp rooms. Nothing major about it, just for giggles. It had no balancing at all since it used pve stats,battles would literally take only 2 seconds to end most times. People kept asking for more.

2 Then came conclave 1.0 where it was 1v1 or 2v2 matches on specific starchart nodes. People kept asking for more.

3 Then came the Solar Rails. The zero-balancing issues from dojo pvp was still there. Skill barely mattered, it was a gear check. Groups that brought the best (cheese) frames & weapons had an unfair advantage. If you wanted to beat that, you had to join that bandwagon. Some frames had their first versions of press-4-to-win skills back then, there was no defense against them once they got unlocked, the battle was already decided at that point. People who dished out this cheapness obviously remember this game mode with rose-colored glasses, not so much if you were on the receiving end. This and all the taxing fiasco just made the whole thing a failure for everybody not in the alliance cartels. They shut it down and people kept asking for more.

4 Then came conclave 2.0 and the chore of having to re-balance everything for it. It has no proper matchmaking skills or an in-game mechanic to close that gap (think Blue Shell from Mario Kart). This fails to retain novice players and only hardcore players stick around. People kept asking for more. ("lack of rewards" was never its problem, stop bringing that up)

5 Lunaro was introduced. Dead on arrival. People kept asking for more.

6 DE's other pvp game, The Amazing Eternals gets shut down before leaving closed beta. Most people didn't even know this existed to ask for more. (Personally I think that instead of making this, they should've made Warframe conclave as its own separate game as it was already very popular)

 

Warframe is now 7 years old. Its playerbase is vehemently established to be PVE-based. Nothing wrong with that, pvp isn't a mandatory content that all online games must have.
You got to give DE credit for trying this many times to attempt their hand at pvp. Other game studios would've stopped after one attempt. And for the umpteenth time because still too many people believe this, they had no hand in the core design of the Unreal Tournament games, that was all Epic. DE only assisted in designing some models and maps, not the gameplay and the engine.

If you like conclave as it is now, enjoy it and be happy it's there at all and not removed like trials, since it doesn't cause game-breaking bugs to the rest of the game. But I don't expect DE to spend any more resources and time into it, based on the multitude of attempts I numbered above. It's just not economically sound anymore to do so in a 7 year old game. To still think that conclave can be salvaged and become popular is like the players who still stick around train wrecks like Fallout76 and Anthem. if you can't fix a disaster within 1 year of launch (like No Man's Sky), it just ain't happening.

I'm a numbers-and-facts guy, I don't do wishful thinking that the power of friendship and plot armor can make Warframe into a pvp powerhouse. If conclave as it is today was added since day 1, it might actually have been a success. But a lot of players of today would then never even have bothered to try this game out since they specifically came here for a pve-only experience. In this alternate timeline, who knows how Warframe would have fared 7 years later. 

    People keep asking for it. 

  Dojo duels were kinda lame until we realized we could break out of the dueling room and fight in the dojo. Then we realized we could set up ppl in our dueling rooms to constantly break players out of the dueling room to have mass fights in the dojo. Then we realized that if you killed a player twice, they'd respawn able to attack other players but not the player who killed them twice. If you killed more players then more people couldn't hurt you but could hurt other people. And the players they killed ALSO couldn't hurt you. This was hidden dojo duel game mechanics already in the game, that no one had explored before.           So we had massive zombie fights in the dojo. I started showing content creators how to do it and even had Wgrates come to xbox to play it. Unfortunately dojo duels 2.0 came out and we couldn't do it by the time he came to xbox.

   Conclave 1.0 was pointless after Dark Sectors hit. Since it was MR locked it was indeed a gear check. Still fun, conclave 2.0 pre-zaw was better. 

     Dark Sectors, required insane skill, and little or no mods as the match played by pros only last about five min. The player with the highest KD only had two frames and three weapons, and yet 5k kills. Real time combat and strategy. AoW and AR had formed a secret alliance to take down The Order, which was xbox version of ICE. Then we won all our wars until the last when clans grouped up and beat us. Thankfully DE put up armistice before we had our crown completely taken. At the time of armistice, there were six super alliances (in that alliances broke cap to have more players and formed secret alliances between alliances to form super alliances, some numbering up to 10k) That's xbox numbers. The PC numbers were higher. When Armisitce hit, those alliances dissolved and slowly faded away. This conversation shows there is a demand. I literally came back to forums because of that demand. The super alliances were an actual bug. Not DS specific though.The specters that you could add without finishing your army, that was a real bug. Infinite floating Mesa, that was a bug but wasn't DS specific. Some nodes became glitched and would require a daily reset to be able to launch on them. That was a real bug. We have easy solutions to each of those things. Game mechanics that exist to this day. 

    Dark Sectors DID have a balancing system, restricted mods and weapons. And since you started at lvl 0 and had to kill your way to level up, and with most matches over by lvl 10-15, you can see why I'm a bit confused about your facts and numbers. 

     Perhaps DE listened to inexperienced players and didn't have the correct feedback to fix the FEW actual bugs, when most of the complaints were rumors or sore losers. With the feed back negative, DE tries to placate players by nerfing. Revamping and eventually giving up on PvP game modes. I think the real issue is that people will always complain regardless of what you do.  And DE will always try and listen. Because they're Canadian, and polite. >.<

      There are large groups of extremely experienced players who only work on DS and Conclave their rebirth. PvE just had it's biggest update ever. Seven years of it actually. With the PvE burnout, a PvP endgame wouldn't be a gamble, it would be a adrenaline shot to the forehead of the most advanced game ever created.

Edited February 10, 2020 by (XB1)CFE Vulari

[da_blok_is_hot]

On 2019-11-17 at 1:38 AM, (PS4)Akuma_Asura_ said:

So I’ve been around for dark sectors and obviously conclave . Dark sectors/Solar Rail conflicts were pretty well received by the community and people actually enjoyed participating in it back then, but with conclave it’s like 1-5% of the community even play conclave regularly, it’s truly unpopular. So I wanted to discuss so you think PVP in Warframe can ever be successful again in Warframe ? & if so how can it be fixed ? I personally feel like DE should have a team that specifically works on PVP 

It's been like 6 years since rails were removed. I do miss them. I had a blast when they were around. I remember the last battle for us, my alliance we had just took over Jupiter Cameria. Fun times. With that said... I just do not see how at this point in Warframe's stage that it could possibly work. Just way too many abilities in the game now. 

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

15 hours ago, (XB1)The Neko Otaku said:

Call of duty advance warfare is basically conclave but has that thing that you will never experience, a playerbase

Ok, I disagree with your idea that AW and Conclave are the same. How are they similar?

[SilentMobius]

8 hours ago, Corvid said:

As someone who was playing back then, I can testify that it was definitely not there "From the start". And even when it did start to trickle in, it was only ever a tiny side activity with effectively 0 dev focus. Not exactly "Baked In".

I'd just like to second this. I remember the addition of dueling in U8 and conclave maps in U10 All with full warframe abilities and weapon profiles, it was a mess.

All that effort: special stats for Warframes, Weapons, custom game modes and maps and it gets less use than the trials did (remember the 1.29% trials vs 1.07% PvP stats Reb gave out in 2016?)

Edited February 11, 2020 by SilentMobius

[(XBOX)CFE Vulari]

5 hours ago, SilentMobius said:

I'd just like to second this. I remember the addition of dueling in U8 and conclave maps in U10 All with full warframe abilities and weapon profiles, it was a mess.

All that effort: special stats for Warframes, Weapons, custom game modes and maps and it gets less use than the trials did (remember the 1.29% trials vs 1.07% PvP stats Reb gave out in 

   You don't like conclave? Wow, I think the entire community of warframe will raise a glass to this. High five. Conclave is a shell of what it once was, and was a poor replacement for rails in the first place. I played a lot of conclave, but was always very clear in the fact that I didn't like the destiny ripoff version of pvp that replaced the very unique, amazing Dark Sectors. And I know a lot of my own people who disagree with me and love conclave, but that's because... they never tried rails.  And I think DE changes game modes because of game mechanics and lag issues more than some kids crying about it. Conclave 1 0 was fine. So was parkour 1.0. Why take out the physics engine. But if you're looking for a chart other than the one you just mentioned, who's math was never explained.... HOW YOU GET THOSE NUMBAS... I digress. Check out death snacks charts on activity levels for dark sectors. (Death Snack being taken down in 2017, but the data still exists) If ANY real effort had been put to maintaining the AMAZING game mode that was created (few bugs. But very clean upon release btw, grats to the Devs involved) we could have held those numbers. Anyone remember how profitable trade chat was? 

Edited February 11, 2020 by (XB1)CFE Vulari

[DeMonkey]

17 hours ago, (XB1)The Repo Man151 said:

DE has crafted a brilliant PvP experience over the years

Good one.

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

9 hours ago, MystMan said:

your epic post

I don't think anyone in the community is asking for more PvP content outside of Conclave and the Dark Sector conflicts. Most of us just want some polish on Conclave.

Edited February 11, 2020 by (XB1)The Repo Man151