Why we have Railjack? Realy!

[Dragmod]

50 minutes ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

You mean that rebuilt flagship orokin-era sigma series ralijack built by the greatest empire the origin system has ever seen , helmed by a cephalon versus a small, crappy mass-produced grineer piece of junk designed to carry a few unimportant and disposable grineer clones around the solar system , the kind of ship you have been destorying for years with an archwing ?

It's been clearly established that the Orokin were the best and most advanced, and that their tech is still , to this day, the best you can get. Think of the difference between a knockoff replica frame versus an orokin era version. Think of the Unum's Tower, the various orokin towers, the terraformers, these big void serpent thingies, the orokin didn't build garbage, and there's no reason why their flagship ships have less HP than an Unmoddedd banshee. Why even bother repairing a railjack ship if any knockoff grineer ship is stronger.

 

The fact our Railjack is pieced together from wreckage and spare parts of six others should really tell us something about the survivability of the Sigma Series.

[Flameduel]

2 hours ago, Meladoni said:

-snipe OP-

I am running the basic set of gear, except a mk1 Reactor that gives +10 to my capacity. I can already run solo the entire earth thanks to running some avionics, upgrading them, upgrading the grid, and having 4356 intrinsics.

[(XBOX)COA Altair]

1 hour ago, Anthraxicus said:

I keep reading that lame excuse all the time. It is like you people are trying to cover for DE's lame excuse for balancing. 

Even at very low levels the Railjack is a joke compared to crew ships. Not even MK1 weapons are such a joke when you start the game for first time and you don't need to steal enemy weapons to kill them. 

Things only keep getting worse, when not only the crew ships are invincible but also have homing projectiles and better damage. Like the OP said, you don't even need the Railjack. It's a detriment to its own game mode, and you are better off parking it and stealing enemy ships. It is a complete joke.

No one is soloing ESO with saryn right out the gate either, this is called progression.  They aren't going to make your first railjack some OP piece of equipment that trivializes everything they throw at you.  The comparison to Mk 1 weapons is quite apt, as Mk 1 weapons are meant to be used until you get better gear then you chuck them to the wayside.  Same can be said of railjack components.  

[Uhkretor]

@Meladoni, do you know what an "Arms Race" is? No, it isn't to give the 1st place prize to the weapon that reaches the finish line first.

 

At the initial time, the Orokin Empire was the only one with military power. Grineers were builders, and the Corpus are nothing more than Orokin descendant renegades. These are, effectively, 3 factions...

Now imagine an "Arms Race" between them. The Orokin were ruined by the Sentients, but from the inside out. Military Power was worth nothing during that... Which leaves 2 factions trying to gain control from the defunct Orokin Empire... Grineer and Corpus. They obviously went to a huge war of attrition... In order to stay ahead of their rival faction, they had to keep improving their weapons while the Orokin space technology was halted because the Orokin Empire was no more. That's what we, the Tenno, salvaged... Broken, outdated, technology.

Now that Railjacks are active again, players enter the Arms Race far behind either Grineer or Corpus and its reflected in the content itself, doesn't matter if you accept it or not.

 

Now, according to the initial wall of text, that you've elegantly added an image to it, turned into a single question that you expected people to pick it up when there was no question at all, its all about choices. You can use the Railjack as much as you can use their ships. True, their ships handle better but they do so because its an updated technology. Its like taking a gun to prehistoric times where the only ranged attacks were slingshots... They work, but the gun does a better job at it because its updated technology.

The idea that the Tenno are the best, have the best and use the best is flawed. Our Warframes are powerful, but they are Old Tech. The Tenno weaponry is powerful, but its Old Tech. Our Archwings are powerful, but they are also Old Tech. Our Railjacks are powerful, but they are Old Tech. The Tenno have nothing other than broken, outdated, Old Tech that was used in the Old War, which is why most of us resort to weaponry from either the Grineer or Corpus factions in order to fight, or doing like the Orokin did and employ engineered Infested weaponry.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Uhkretor

[Renegade343]

14 minutes ago, Uhkretor said:

Now imagine an "Arms Race" between them. The Orokin were ruined by the Sentients, but from the inside out. Military Power was worth nothing during that... Which leaves 2 factions trying to gain control from the defunct Orokin Empire... Grineer and Corpus. They obviously went to a huge war of attrition... In order to stay ahead of their rival faction, they had to keep improving their weapons while the Orokin space technology was halted because the Orokin Empire was no more. That's what we, the Tenno, salvaged... Broken, outdated, technology.

Except that, you know, those two factions also kept on salvaging Orokin tech even because they know Orokin tech's still more powerful than what they have. And why would the Grineer/Corpus be that interested in us salvaging the Railjack if it's that bad? Also Sentients too, and one of their Armada destroyed the Railjack we rebuilt.

14 minutes ago, Uhkretor said:

The idea that the Tenno are the best, have the best and use the best is flawed. Our Warframes are powerful, but they are Old Tech. The Tenno weaponry is powerful, but its Old Tech. Our Archwings are powerful, but they are also Old Tech. Our Railjacks are powerful, but they are Old Tech. The Tenno have nothing other than broken, outdated, Old Tech that was used in the Old War, which is why most of us resort to weaponry from either the Grineer or Corpus factions in order to fight, or doing like the Orokin did and employ engineered Infested weaponry.

Also except that we are willing to use whatever weaponry we can get on our hands. To us, it doesn't matter if the weapon's from whoever, if it's going to work for the mission, it's going to be used.

Besides, old tech doesn't mean weak. Like, look at the frames and some of the Tenno weaponry.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Renegade343

[Uhkretor]

1 minute ago, Renegade343 said:

Except that, you know, those two factions also kept on salvaging Orokin tech even because they know Orokin tech's still more powerful than what they have. And why would the Grineer/Corpus be that interested in us salvaging the Railjack if it's that bad? Also Sentients too, and one of their Armada destroyed the Railjack we rebuilt.

Also except that we are willing to use whatever weaponry we can get on our hands. To us, it doesn't matter if the weapon's from whoever, if it's going to work for the mission, it's going to be used.

Besides, old tech doesn't mean weak. Like, look at the frames and some of the Tenno weaponry.

... you completely missed the point, but I wasn't expecting anything anyway....

[Renegade343]

1 minute ago, Uhkretor said:

... you completely missed the point, but I wasn't expecting anything anyway....

My point is that saying that outdated tech is useless is not always accurate, and that lore reasons would suggest our Railjack would at least be able to stand up in a ship battle now, given that Sentients are way more powerful back then than what the Grineer even is now, and still, the Railjack stood up to a Sentient armada for a while. Presumably all other Railjacks in the same class would have similar performance too, because who would ever trust a ship class that has loose tolerances?

Yeah, there's an arms race going on with the Grineer and Corpus, but they still pale in comparison to Orokin tech, hence one reason why they continue to search for Orokin era ruins. Which is why OP's point makes sense, because if the ship can survive a Sentient armada assault for a while before being destroyed, why would it even fold to one crewship or a few Grineer fighters?

[zakaryx]

Slap on cryo cannons and one shot all fighters.

 

Crew ships are still silly though. Railjack guns should at least be able to disable their gun hardpoints or something.

[nslay]

The crewship fire cannot be dodged in Archwing. You can fly perpendicular to crewship fire and you will still be hit. That's my only gripe for the most part... Just try to use astroids as cover if they are around.

[Leqesai]

2 hours ago, Anthraxicus said:

I keep reading that lame excuse all the time. It is like you people are trying to cover for DE's lame excuse for balancing. 

Even at very low levels the Railjack is a joke compared to crew ships. Not even MK1 weapons are such a joke when you start the game for first time and you don't need to steal enemy weapons to kill them. 

Things only keep getting worse, when not only the crew ships are invincible but also have homing projectiles and better damage. Like the OP said, you don't even need the Railjack. It's a detriment to its own game mode, and you are better off parking it and stealing enemy ships. It is a complete joke.

I completely and wholly disagree with your sentiment.

With rank 0 warframes, MK-0 weapons, no upgrades etc. the starter planets have roughly as much challenge as railjack missions of equivalent preparedness.

It makes good sense that you struggle with a MK-0 railjack. Stealing enemy ships and fighting in your powered up archwings makes plenty of sense.

 

[Leqesai]

7 minutes ago, nslay said:

The crewship fire cannot be dodged in Archwing. You can fly perpendicular to crewship fire and you will still be hit. That's my only gripe for the most part... Just try to use astroids as cover if they are around.

This so much.

Why our weapons are projectile based but it appears the enemies are hitscan is a mild frustration. There is very little skill involved when you are constantly getting hitscanned by enemy ships. Amesha should not be the only viable option.

[Toppien]

do you even one shot crewships with frontal guns mah dude?

[Toppien]

21 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

This so much.

Why our weapons are projectile based but it appears the enemies are hitscan is a mild frustration. There is very little skill involved when you are constantly getting hitscanned by enemy ships. Amesha should not be the only viable option.

actually... there's a skill on flight intrinsics where you can evade lock-on projectiles...

and the railjack also has 2 skills that lock on targets, you have the main misile cannon and the avionics

do you guys even bother to play the damn game and progress before coming here to whine?

[Cloudyvisage]

It is a little annoying that the Crewships are so strong early but all it takes is one upgrade to your weaponry and you're about tied up with them. As for health, us having so little health is misleading as the ship is functionally immortal as long as you have anything more than a catatonic crew. When the Grineer Crewship reaches '0' health it blows up, when the Railjack reached '0' (Actually 89-97 ish) it merely takes a small hull breach which is easily repaired.

When we launch a 'Ramsled' the Grineer have no way of stopping it, the tenno gets in. When the Grineer launch one we can just shoot it down. When a crewship fires their heavy attacks the Railjack takes some damage, usually a decent amount, when the Railjack fires its heavy attack it one-shots the crewship.

I haven't done veil proxima yet but every missile I've fired at the standard fighters has killed them in one shot so far. I dunno, MK-0 Railjack is still dangerous even when none of us are little more than new crewman. The crewship is also way less mobile. 

From a gameplay perspective I understand what you mean, why would you even use the railjack when the Crewships are almost strictly superior for quite a while? Probably just for the learning curve plus affinity(Intrinsics) You could hop on a Rampart in normal gameplay when you're a noob but it would give you no weapons affinity and you want a lot of that early on. Ramparts do a ton more damage than your barely modded weapons for a while.

[Midas]

4 hours ago, Meladoni said:

I was hyped by Railjack. I hunt for every part, and waited peacefully for when it's done.
When I finaly take flight, I was overjoyed by every small detail (co-op finaly!)
But then... we capture Grineer Crewman ship... and Railjack become a joke.

Life;
- Railjack - (about) 1.4k shields (a joke which wanish after 1-2 hits) and 4k Life (slow regen, have delay, almost no armor)
- Grineer Crewman - 43.5k life (slow regen, no delay, and GOD tier armor - reduce everything to 1-3 dmg)
Guns;
- Railjack - make Grineer laugh
- Grineer Crewman - strong, lock-on-target missiels and strong flak
Additional;
- Railjack - can be boarded, set on fire, got hull / electric damage, and hull breach
- Grineer Crewman - need to be boarded by a player, have no flaw of Railjack

Every mission on Saturn (and some on Earth) starts and end with the same outline;
- Park Railjack far away
- Enter Archwing
- Eliminate fighters and wait for Crewman ship
- Board it
- Eliminate everything without any fear -
- Profit

In my opinion, Railjack should have more and better options to fight and operate;
- Elements of the Ship - they should be significance in combat, they should matter
- Weapon - let them have some power, more diversity, and maybe even "mods" for them (no, avionic is not a solution)
- Tactic - tactic should be a tactic; ability to change and addapt (and even it's own post on bridge), like; hack enemy ships, speed shield recharge / life regen, create "illusion" of second ship, emp impulse, nanite cloud
- Crew - let us have more ppl in crew; 8 max or so
- Drones - can be in any category, but theirs purpose can be Intrinsic depended, like;
Tactic - shooting enemy missiles / projectile
Piloting - slowly looting sector
Gunnery - connect to guns and by that increasing weapon damage / accuracy
Engineering - fixing hull damage / breach (ability on CD)

That is my opinion and ideas. What are yours?

Seems you have only played for a hot minute, that railjack is a lot stronger than you.

[Leqesai]

3 hours ago, Toppien said:

actually... there's a skill on flight intrinsics where you can evade lock-on projectiles...

and the railjack also has 2 skills that lock on targets, you have the main misile cannon and the avionics

do you guys even bother to play the damn game and progress before coming here to whine?

The issue is not related to lock-on mechanics.

 

The issue is related to hitscan projectiles shredding archwings. And there is no intrinsic that makes your archwing get hit less from hitscan projectiles. 

I'm not sure why you bothered posting about the railjack and lock-on mechanics when the conversation you quoted was specifically about archwings. For such a rude response I would hope you more accurately respond to the quoted posts.

Edited December 16, 2019 by Leqesai
Reading comprension

[Awazx]

Il y a 4 heures, Uhkretor a dit :

Our Warframes are powerful, but they are Old Tech. 

From an "old tech" space time perspective, it doesn't have to mean "worse." Old tech could be a technology infinitely superior to any that a supposed "new and current" civilization could replicate.

[Anthraxicus]

4 hours ago, Leqesai said:

I completely and wholly disagree with your sentiment.

With rank 0 warframes, MK-0 weapons, no upgrades etc. the starter planets have roughly as much challenge as railjack missions of equivalent preparedness.

It makes good sense that you struggle with a MK-0 railjack. Stealing enemy ships and fighting in your powered up archwings makes plenty of sense.

 

No, they don't pose the same threat one bit. Plus, you can quickly upgrade to better weapons, unlike Railjack, which requires tons of new resources only for a minor upgrade of one weapon.

Plus, once you get a Hek, you can pretty much clear the entire Starchart. You cannot do that with Railjack...unless, of course, you simply steal enemy ships.

 

Quote

No one is soloing ESO with saryn right out the gate either, this is called progression.  They aren't going to make your first railjack some OP piece of equipment that trivializes everything they throw at you.  The comparison to Mk 1 weapons is quite apt, as Mk 1 weapons are meant to be used until you get better gear then you chuck them to the wayside.  Same can be said of railjack components.  

Absolutely wrong. At least you can mod MK-1 weapons. And nobody is asking to start overpowered, but nobody also asked to stay underpowered and obsolete forever. 
DE had to nerf Archguns to make Raijack feel more powerful, and even so they have failed miserably.

Edited December 16, 2019 by Anthraxicus