Warframe is way too grindy for new players

[Paradoxoglanis]

After 600 hours played, i still dont understand how new casual players are supposed to progress at a reasonable pace. I stared playing again a few months ago, and it still looks like I have 100s to 1000s of hours of grinding ahead of me before i can get an "end game" set up, depending on how much i care to min max. 100s - 1000s of hours grinding for rare mods, arcanes, endo, kuva, standing...

An example of my train of thought:

I want to get wisp, so i need to do the prereq quests to farm the Ropalolyst. Quests dont usually take too long, and all the bosses ive killed before are pretty easy so I though It wouldnt take long. Then I try the Ropalolyst boss fight and realize i need a half decent amp to even attempt it. So i head over to PoE and find i cant even build an amp until I do a different quest and farm Vomvalysts for standing. I get to rank 1, and then realise that the 1-1-1 amp is rather expensive in crafting mats, and I would have to farm cetus wisps among other materials just to craft it. Then later on, I would need to farm even more just to upgrade my amp to something viable in eidolon hunting (I could write a whole other post about how terrible i think eidolon arcanes are for the game). All this work for a low-mid tier weapon that is mandatory for a boss thats not even in PoE. Additionally, the game barely has any guides, tutorials, or explanations for anything, so I spend half my time "playing" by reading the wiki and watching community guides.

As a solo player, who can play at most around 1-2h a day, Its taken me over a month just to get the 1-1-1 amp blueprints since I constantly feel pressured to do all these limited time events and dailies like nightwave, alerts, catching up on prime weapons/frames before they are vaulted, doing the occasional sortie etc.This game feels like an addiction where you can never achieve enough, but are always pressured to play more otherwise you fall behind. You are always having limited time events and offers shoved in your face, all while you are busy fighting rng by grinding for materials/items for ridiculous amounts of time.

I know i could buy a lot of stuff with plat, but that would completely ruin the whole point of playing a game.

[8faiNt]

its not grindy you just dont know what you're doing

[(PSN)Cephalon_Snow]

This game is 7 years old and it has a lot of different "things".  Try not to focus to heavily on one part of the game and spread your playtime around.

You will get everything you want and more in due time and complaining that there is nothing to do like so many other vets before you know it.

 

[Paradoxity]

Part of the issue is a lot of that sort of content is largely add on. That is to say, while it might have been billed for 'new players', things like plains also had longer term players in mind- hence the rep and detached resource  grinds associated with them. They were meant to alleviate, at least a little, part of the 'content drought' that we run into once we're "Done" with the game.

I think(?) Rope was supposed to be a late-game boss, hence his requirements being buried pretty deep behind other stuff. That said, It's pretty hard to tell anymore what is and isn't supposed to be  late or end game. 

 

[(XBOX)AMONGTHEWEAK]

It can be at times. 

Edited December 21, 2019 by (XB1)AMONGTHEWEAK

[LSG501]

9 minutes ago, Paradoxoglanis said:

Additionally, the game barely has any guides, tutorials, or explanations for anything, so I spend half my time "playing" by reading the wiki and watching community guides.

As a solo player, who can play at most around 1-2h a day,

I know i could buy a lot of stuff with plat, but that would completely ruin the whole point of playing a game.

first bit - welcome to warframe where you basically guess what you're doing...we've been moaning about that for years....

Solo is part of the issue, in groups more resources/spawns and if you're lucky stronger players who can basically carry you.

buy it with plat... unfortunately DE's very 'simple' business model is increase the grind to the point where (newer) players just say screw it and buy it with plat....

[Alluka]

I did Ropalolyst  with the mote amp idk what you are talking about it being impossible.

But I do agree that Arcanes are too grindy.

[(XBOX)AMONGTHEWEAK]

The beginning is probably where WF loses a lot of their potential players and potential profit.

 

[Voltage]

14 minutes ago, Alluka said:

But I do agree that Arcanes are too grindy.

Compared to Trials, Arcanes are much easier to obtain. They aren't too grindy, but they aren't trivial like the Syndicate Arcanes.

Edited December 21, 2019 by Voltage

[(XBOX)COA Altair]

Be glad you never suffered through raids trying to complete one arcane avenger set of 10.  Have a friend who did raids for years, never completed a 10 set of avenger off just drops of it alone.  You got 3 arcanes per day at most (JV, NM LoR, and LoR.)  Best part of raids was that it actually gave a lot of credits and rare resource containers/fieldron and detonite injectors were so easy to get.  

That's the nature of games like this.  You get into the game so late into the development time and there's boatloads of content to do.  

[JoJoshuee_DesK]

Haha, the title... so hilarious. Welcome top the looter shooter's world bruh 

[Prostreet150]

If you consider the Endo you need to farm to max all the good Mods + the platinum you need to spent to buy the best Arcanes/Rivens plush the Focus grind and the AMP as a new player yes you need "A LOT" of hours to reach endgame.

But after you reach the point where you can 1 shot everything, there is no reason to keep playing this game.

My account was endgame but after they changed the gameplay and removed the block option i uninstalled it the first day.             

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

41 minutes ago, 8faiNt said:

its not grindy you just dont know what you're doing

I have 2,000+ hours of in-game time, not total time played, and Warframe is incredibly grindy. Boosters can help, but those are not free. Relying on recruiting is hit or miss at best as some groups can form in minutes while others waste an hour with no luck. Clans are probably your best chance to find a reliable group but they have similar issues like recruiting. And lastly you can solo, but that is inefficient and most difficult for inexperienced players to manage.

So let me guess, you play with an organized group using boosters, right? If not please enlighten us as to what is the most efficient use of players' time.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

Seven years in and a lot of new things are getting lost in translation...I've played like maybe one disruption for a lua lenses and I was like well, underwhelming...

I find myself wishing De would Thanos snap the star chart and remove 50% of the clutter...

[Paradoxity]

Just now, (PS4)FriendSharkey said:

Seven years in and a lot of new things are getting lost in translation...I've played like maybe one disruption for a lua lenses and I was like well, underwhelming...

I find myself wishing De would Thanos snap the star chart and remove 50% of the clutter...

Really? 

Honestly I kinda wish they'd do the opposite and give us more places to go. A Titan tileset, maybe, or Ganymede, or Enceledus or Io... 

[Uhkretor]

57 minutes ago, Paradoxoglanis said:

Spoiler

After 600 hours played, i still dont understand how new casual players are supposed to progress at a reasonable pace. I stared playing again a few months ago, and it still looks like I have 100s to 1000s of hours of grinding ahead of me before i can get an "end game" set up, depending on how much i care to min max. 100s - 1000s of hours grinding for rare mods, arcanes, endo, kuva, standing...

An example of my train of thought:

I want to get wisp, so i need to do the prereq quests to farm the Ropalolyst. Quests dont usually take too long, and all the bosses ive killed before are pretty easy so I though It wouldnt take long. Then I try the Ropalolyst boss fight and realize i need a half decent amp to even attempt it. So i head over to PoE and find i cant even build an amp until I do a different quest and farm Vomvalysts for standing. I get to rank 1, and then realise that the 1-1-1 amp is rather expensive in crafting mats, and I would have to farm cetus wisps among other materials just to craft it. Then later on, I would need to farm even more just to upgrade my amp to something viable in eidolon hunting (I could write a whole other post about how terrible i think eidolon arcanes are for the game). All this work for a low-mid tier weapon that is mandatory for a boss thats not even in PoE. Additionally, the game barely has any guides, tutorials, or explanations for anything, so I spend half my time "playing" by reading the wiki and watching community guides.

As a solo player, who can play at most around 1-2h a day, Its taken me over a month just to get the 1-1-1 amp blueprints since I constantly feel pressured to do all these limited time events and dailies like nightwave, alerts, catching up on prime weapons/frames before they are vaulted, doing the occasional sortie etc.This game feels like an addiction where you can never achieve enough, but are always pressured to play more otherwise you fall behind. You are always having limited time events and offers shoved in your face, all while you are busy fighting rng by grinding for materials/items for ridiculous amounts of time.

I know i could buy a lot of stuff with plat, but that would completely ruin the whole point of playing a game.

 

Things that weren't obvious that you should've suspected and avoided before going there:

- Plains of Eidolon (You need an Operator)

- Orb Vallis (You need an Operator)

- Ropalolyst (The node is there but, go figure, you need an Operator)

- Sorties (You need War Within completed... Which includes, surprise surprise, a fully working Operator)...

- And much, much more...

 

A new player should NOT do any of the above, since none of them is meant for new players. They're also meant for Squads, which means that if you're running Solo then you're adding unnecessary suffering upon yourself.

Warframe is an Online game. It isn't an MMO, but its an Online game. And as any Online game, there is RNG... And RNG dictates the grind. The trick isn't to grind for what you want, its to grond for anything else other than what you want.

Edited December 21, 2019 by Uhkretor

[8faiNt]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

Warframe is incredibly grindy.

what is so grindy? list it, please.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

5 minutes ago, Paradoxity said:

Really? 

Honestly I kinda wish they'd do the opposite and give us more places to go. A Titan tileset, maybe, or Ganymede, or Enceledus or Io... 

New planets are fine, but do we need two spy missions, interceptions, and defenses and node after node that we have on every other planet repeated over and over again...

If I was going to add a new world I'd just add one node at a time when I actually have something new in a game mode to be added instead of relying on the thirtieth exterminate...

If it's gonna be an exterminate then you face a tile set full of Juggernauts or Bursa...You know just something different...

Edited December 21, 2019 by (PS4)FriendSharkey

[Paradoxity]

Just now, (PS4)FriendSharkey said:

New planets are fine, but do we need two spy missions, interceptions, and defenses and node after node that we have on every other planet repeated over and over again...

I myself if I was going to add a new world I'd just add one node at a time when I actually have something new in a game mode to be added instead of relying on the thirtieth exterminate...

If it's gonna be an exterminate then you face a tile set full of Juggernauts or Bursa...You know just something different...

Oh, yeah, I'm tracking, and I agree. I'm fine with there being stock or standard mission types on  every planet, but I'd like to see each planet have it's own unique mission type as well, personally. 

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Cephalon_Snow said:

This game is 7 years old and it has a lot of different "things".  Try not to focus to heavily on one part of the game and spread your playtime around.

You will get everything you want and more in due time and complaining that there is nothing to do like so many other vets before you know it.

 

I don't think that was the OP's problem at all. Warframe has a ton of content and most of it is fragmented from the rest. Take amps and focus as examples. When you get your first amp it's pretty cool. You use it for a bit and then realize it's faster just to shoot things normally except certain enemies require you to use it. So you die a lot in some quests until you upgrade it. So you go to upgrade it and realize that you need to farm under very specific conditions, PoE at night. So you can't even grind it when you have time. And once you do finally upgrade the amp you are stuck with a 111, which is barely any better and you still can't guild them yet. It's a terrible experience overall.

And then we have focus. In the years since focus was added it has remained almost entirely separate from the core  gameplay. You need to farm lenses, then install them on items, but you can't upgrade or remove them once installed so it discourages actually using them. Then most of the content provides you with a pitiful amount of focus since it is based on affinity gained in 30s intervals. Boosters help the most here, so imagine getting half as much because you didn't pay and the amount you need is in the hundreds of thousands while you are only getting a few thousand per mission. It's daunting and horribly designed for newer players. And then you realize that there are 5 focus schools that need to be leveled separately and some of them are almost mandatory for certain content.

And that's just 2 examples of the dozens of horribly explained systems in Warframe. I have friends that won't come back, not because the gameplay isn't fun, but because they don't want to feel like they are working a second job while playing. It's one thing to grind a game mode to acquire parts to build a new frame and another to try and level up a focus school.

Edited December 21, 2019 by (PS4)Hiero_Glyph

[(PSN)Cephalon_Snow]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

I don't think that was the OP's problem at all. Warframe has a ton of content and most of it is fragmented from the rest. Take amps and focus as examples. When you get your first amp it's pretty cool. You use it for a bit and then realize it's faster just to shoot things normally except certain enemies require you to use it. So you die a lot in some quests until you upgrade it. So you go to upgrade it and realize that you need to farm under very specific conditions, PoE at night. So you can't even grind it when you have time. And once you do finally upgrade the amp you are stuck with a 111, which is barely any better and you still can't guild them yet. It's a terrible experience overall.

And then we have focus. In the years since focus was added it has remained almost entirely separate from the core  gameplay. You need to farm lenses, then install them on items, but you can't upgrade or remove them once installed so it discourages actually using them. Then most of the content provides you with a pitiful amount of focus since it is based on affinity gained in 30s intervals. Boosters help the most here, so imagine getting half as much because you didn't pay and the amount you need is in the hundreds of thousands while you are only getting a few thousand per mission. It's daunting and horribly designed for newer players. And then you realize that there are 5 focus schools that need to be leveled separately and some of them are almost mandatory for certain content.

And that's just 2 examples of the dozens of horribly explained systems in Warframe. I have friends that won't come back, not because the gameplay isn't fun, but because they don't want to feel like they are working a second job while playing. It's one thing to grind a game mode to acquire parts to build a new frame and another to try and level up a focus school.

I understand the point the op and you are making..I'm only saying that new or newer players dont need to be in a rush to have all the things now.  And if they do there is usually an option through plat or trading.

There need to be some long term goals In the game like focus to work toward after you got all the things to keep you engaged.

It just sounds to me like too many players want to be all powerful and have everything without putting in the work like everyone else just because they got to the party late.

 

 

 

[Hexsing]

I don't know what I'm doing.  But I'm figuring it out.  Its the one game I can say that I enjoy, but also a game that I can say I spend equal parts playing and using Wikis and Vids to understand what I'm doing.  

Most people I have invited leave between mastery rank 5 and 9.  Or somewhere in between those two markers.

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Cephalon_Snow said:

I understand the point the op and you are making..I'm only saying that new or newer players dont need to be in a rush to have all the things now.  And if they do there is usually an option through plat or trading.

There need to be some long term goals In the game like focus to work toward after you got all the things to keep you engaged.

It just sounds to me like too many players want to be all powerful and have everything without putting in the work like everyone else just because they got to the party late.

 

 

 

Long term goals are great, but they shouldn't be locked behind very specific content. What if you don't enjoy that content? Then you are locked out of those upgrades forever. That's what I mean by fragmented.

Take archwing mods. Archwing sucks! But if you want to play Railjack then you need to grind archwing missions because those mods are only available from archwing missions. Railjack doesn't have a single archwing mod in its drop tables. So if you even want to help friends play Railjck, now you have to go to a separate mode and grind it until you get those mods you need to help with Railjack. It's excessively grindy and most players just want to help their friends. And don't tell me that Railjack is an endgame activity since you could easily grind Earth with your friends until they are ready for Saturn (except you can't because it won't drop archwing mods).

[(PSN)Silverback73]

1 hour ago, Paradoxoglanis said:

After 600 hours played, i still dont understand how new casual players are supposed to progress at a reasonable pace. I stared playing again a few months ago, and it still looks like I have 100s to 1000s of hours of grinding ahead of me before i can get an "end game" set up, depending on how much i care to min max. 100s - 1000s of hours grinding for rare mods, arcanes, endo, kuva, standing...

An example of my train of thought:

I want to get wisp, so i need to do the prereq quests to farm the Ropalolyst. Quests dont usually take too long, and all the bosses ive killed before are pretty easy so I though It wouldnt take long. Then I try the Ropalolyst boss fight and realize i need a half decent amp to even attempt it. So i head over to PoE and find i cant even build an amp until I do a different quest and farm Vomvalysts for standing. I get to rank 1, and then realise that the 1-1-1 amp is rather expensive in crafting mats, and I would have to farm cetus wisps among other materials just to craft it. Then later on, I would need to farm even more just to upgrade my amp to something viable in eidolon hunting (I could write a whole other post about how terrible i think eidolon arcanes are for the game). All this work for a low-mid tier weapon that is mandatory for a boss thats not even in PoE. Additionally, the game barely has any guides, tutorials, or explanations for anything, so I spend half my time "playing" by reading the wiki and watching community guides.

As a solo player, who can play at most around 1-2h a day, Its taken me over a month just to get the 1-1-1 amp blueprints since I constantly feel pressured to do all these limited time events and dailies like nightwave, alerts, catching up on prime weapons/frames before they are vaulted, doing the occasional sortie etc.This game feels like an addiction where you can never achieve enough, but are always pressured to play more otherwise you fall behind. You are always having limited time events and offers shoved in your face, all while you are busy fighting rng by grinding for materials/items for ridiculous amounts of time.

I know i could buy a lot of stuff with plat, but that would completely ruin the whole point of playing a game.

Join a clan. Fast-tracked to success and 1/3 additional content just like that.

[Itsmez]

1 hour ago, Paradoxoglanis said:

After 600 hours played, i still dont understand how new casual players are supposed to progress at a reasonable pace. I stared playing again a few months ago, and it still looks like I have 100s to 1000s of hours of grinding ahead of me before i can get an "end game" set up, depending on how much i care to min max. 100s - 1000s of hours grinding for rare mods, arcanes, endo, kuva, standing...

An example of my train of thought:

I want to get wisp, so i need to do the prereq quests to farm the Ropalolyst. Quests dont usually take too long, and all the bosses ive killed before are pretty easy so I though It wouldnt take long. Then I try the Ropalolyst boss fight and realize i need a half decent amp to even attempt it. So i head over to PoE and find i cant even build an amp until I do a different quest and farm Vomvalysts for standing. I get to rank 1, and then realise that the 1-1-1 amp is rather expensive in crafting mats, and I would have to farm cetus wisps among other materials just to craft it. Then later on, I would need to farm even more just to upgrade my amp to something viable in eidolon hunting (I could write a whole other post about how terrible i think eidolon arcanes are for the game). All this work for a low-mid tier weapon that is mandatory for a boss thats not even in PoE. Additionally, the game barely has any guides, tutorials, or explanations for anything, so I spend half my time "playing" by reading the wiki and watching community guides.

As a solo player, who can play at most around 1-2h a day, Its taken me over a month just to get the 1-1-1 amp blueprints since I constantly feel pressured to do all these limited time events and dailies like nightwave, alerts, catching up on prime weapons/frames before they are vaulted, doing the occasional sortie etc.This game feels like an addiction where you can never achieve enough, but are always pressured to play more otherwise you fall behind. You are always having limited time events and offers shoved in your face, all while you are busy fighting rng by grinding for materials/items for ridiculous amounts of time.

I know i could buy a lot of stuff with plat, but that would completely ruin the whole point of playing a game.

I have around 620hours on record so far in total. I got multiple different end game setups, quests done, couple good rivens, railjack full of Mark3 and avionics filled. I have pretty mutch everything and more than i need for "good end game setup"

Youre just making up excuses " its too grindy " for new players