Reactors : 2% Drop Rate at end of mission is indecent for something with random rolls.

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

I have to vent about this. I've been farming the same stupid Veil Mission for the last five days nonstop to get a reactor with capacity above 50, since it's the only to get them, and it's the only thing holding back my railjack for reaching it's full potential. It's like being stuck unable to equip potatos and formas on a frame.

Let's do some quick math here.

• - Average run of a veil mission takes 25-35 minutes, depending of the quality of your team. Let's assume 25 minutes if you're good and you run the one mission that doesn't have side objectives (just kill the ships).
• 2% Drop Rate = 1 theoretical drop Every 50 Runs = 50 runs * 25 Minutes = 1 possible drop Every 20 Hours of farming on average.

Already unacceptable... But let's add insult to injury.

• The Vidar Reactor can roll from 30 to 100 capacity.
• The Lavan Reactor can roll from 23 to 70.

This means there's a very likely chance that once that reactor does drop after 20 hours of farming, it will actually be worse than the majority of common zekti reactors that  drop and often are near the 50 capacity cap... Which is exactly what happened to me and most people in my clan. I'm now the proud owner of a lavan with 32 capacity and a vidar with 46, after a full week of pretty much farming veil nonstop.

So yeah, this is really lame. Always hated 2% drop rates, but when you combine them with random rolls that can roll lower than the common drops, you got yourself a world of pain and frustration. It's making me hate Railjack and burning me out of the whole mode.

But enough complaining , here's some solutions.

1. Dramatically increase the drop chances of the reactors. They are essential for a fully modded railjack, it's unfair to lock them between such a low drop percentage. Maybe 10% would be a good number, just remove all the crappy relics and other clutter from the drop table and let us farm them reliably.
2. If you don't intend to make them easier to get , at least fix their stats so they start at 60/70+ capacity or something. Finally getting one only for it to be much worse than even a clantech mk3 variation sucks. Note that  is only a half-solution, as once you do get a 60/70 one, this means you'll still have to run multiple 20+ hours stretches to maybe get an upgrade.
3. How about making them drop from actual enemies too. I'm sick of getting only zekti parts from most missions, and getting frequent lavan and vidar would really help in feeling you're getting regular drops and potential progression on your railjack.
4. This one is more of a re-imagining, but I think the avionics capacity should be decoupled from reactors altogether. Relying on RNG to mod capacity sucks, and you can literally spending months running the same mission over and over and never get lucky and get a 90+ reactor, let alone attempt to get a 100 reactor. Why not just make it so that every point spent on the grid gives you avionics capacity, and reactors are only used for their flux capacity and their added perks.
5. Alternatively, why not allow people to reroll their rare parts, so when they finally get a vidar or lavan with bad stats, they can pay some of the new endo to reroll it till it gets a good capacity ?

I'll try to keep this bumped so you guys see this once you get back from vacation, but this is really a huge problem... That plus the exorbitant prices of repairing parts which also needs to be address so it doesn't feel like a pay-to win scheme to get us to pay 50p each time we get an upgrade.

Also, why do  i have a feeling this will all be pointless ,as you guys are bound to release MK4-5-6 parts sooner than later, making all this stuff obsolete.

Edited December 27, 2019 by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra

[DrakeWurrum]

Yeeeeah I'm using the research version of the MK3 reactor, and it sounds like I'll be stuck with it for a while. =\

At least I have Zetki Hullweave, Bulkhead, and Hyperstrike already? I got lucky with those drops.

[Gweredith]

2 weeks farming, not a single vidar reactor. It's not as if I'm being greedy and demanding a legendary core DE. These are basic components ... 

[Hello]

The one flaw I might give of the math at the beginning. Dedicated groups are already doing the exterminate Veil mission in 5 minutes. Solo takes 15-20 minutes typically. Granted this is not the average and people can be faster or slower, just going off of myself for solo and Twitch streams and videos for groups.

Although it still took 5-6 days to get (lost track since that farm fried my brain and lost all sanity), got a +69 Avionic Capacity. Not great but FINALLY a reactor better than clan research.All previous drops were 30-40 and a waste of time.

I will agree with removing the relic, remove the resources. More times than not, I just got a 3 different resources that made the run feel wasted. I will also agree with having the stats higher. I don't know who at DE had the bright idea of making something worse than clan research and who was responsible for saying "Yeah this is a great idea" and implementing it. I have a guess since every thing they talk about is a horrible idea, I won't name them though.

I wouldn't mind upgrading a grid to give additional capacity or even say like 5000 dirac or something to act like a forma in some way to cut the higher drain ones in half Quite easy to get given the spam of dirac (otherwise known as Zetki weapons that drop like candy).

I will heavily disagree against using dirac to reroll though. Rivens/kuva killed the game for me. No need to get away from one horrible rng system by turning it into another horrible rng system.

Edited December 27, 2019 by --Brandt--

[DrakeWurrum]

11 minutes ago, --Brandt-- said:

I will heavily disagree against using dirac to reroll though. Rivens/kuva killed the game for me. No need to get away from one horrible rng system by turning it into another horrible rng system.

I would rather not use DIRAC for that anyways, personally. It's already a pain to farm enough for avionics and grid upgrades.

I mean, sure... eventually, we'll have all of that maxed out anyways, so maybe we'll need an additional use for DIRAC...

But right now, I'd rather use a different resource.

I personally would rather reroll a bad Vidar than hope for a GOOD Vidar to drop, only to get yet-another-Zetki.

[Kontrollo]

Combined with all the bugs that can even prevent one from completing the mission, this is not indecent. It's a scam.

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

28 minutes ago, --Brandt-- said:

The one flaw I might give of the math at the beginning. Dedicated groups are already doing the exterminate Veil mission in 5 minutes. Solo takes 15-20 minutes typically. Granted this is not the average and people can be faster or slower, just going off of myself for solo and Twitch streams and videos for groups.

Although it still took 5-6 days to get (lost track since that farm fried my brain and lost all sanity), got a +69 Avionic Capacity. Not great but FINALLY a reactor better than clan research.All previous drops were 30-40 and a waste of time.

I will agree with removing the relic, remove the resources. More times than not, I just got a 3 different resources that made the run feel wasted. I will also agree with having the stats higher. I don't know who at DE had the bright idea of making something worse than clan research and who was responsible for saying "Yeah this is a great idea" and implementing it. I have a guess since every thing they talk about is a horrible idea, I won't name them though.

I wouldn't mind upgrading a grid to give additional capacity or even say like 5000 dirac or something to act like a forma in some way to cut the higher drain ones in half Quite easy to get given the spam of dirac (otherwise known as Zetki weapons that drop like candy).

I will heavily disagree against using dirac to reroll though. Rivens/kuva killed the game for me. No need to get away from one horrible rng system by turning it into another horrible rng system.

Been running mostly with randos, and I'm usually the one having to fly the ship / do the repairs / catapult into crewships because the other three people are doing god knows what. I'll try the void hole strat and hopefully once the ticho mk3 is done cooking i'll be able to oneshot the crewships, but i find it hard to believe people reliably do 5 mins run, heck it takes like two minutes loading in and out into the mission, and killing 96 ship takes time, even when grouping them with void hole.

Edited December 27, 2019 by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra

[Hello]

36 minutes ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

Been running mostly with randos, and I'm usually the one having to fly the ship / do the repairs / catapult into crewships because the other three people are doing god knows what. I'll try the void hole strat and hopefully once the ticho mk3 is done cooking i'll be able to oneshot the crewships, but i find it hard to believe people reliably do 5 mins run, heck it takes like two minutes loading in and out into the mission, and killing 96 ship takes time, even when grouping them with void hole.

Solo yeah it's the void hole and whatever the other avionic is. I watched a video earlier today from I believe the RV clan if I remember right. I don't do that method mainly because I don't have them, 500p for an avionic to try something is not worth it to me. For solo, I just archwing/archgun the entire time while returning to the railjack if I need to repair something.

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

Another couple days of farming, still no new reactors...

Edited January 1, 2020 by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra

[CandyManCriminal]

they've already said they're gunna up the drop chance
so once they're back we'll see what happens

[-THT-DeathAngel]

Way too much farming for these please fix this DE

[Kouden]

On 2019-12-27 at 7:08 PM, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

I have to vent about this. I've been farming the same stupid Veil Mission for the last five days nonstop to get a reactor with capacity above 50, since it's the only to get them, and it's the only thing holding back my railjack for reaching it's full potential. It's like being stuck unable to equip potatos and formas on a frame.

Let's do some quick math here.

• - Average run of a veil mission takes 25-35 minutes, depending of the quality of your team. Let's assume 25 minutes if you're good and you run the one mission that doesn't have side objectives (just kill the ships).
• 2% Drop Rate = 1 theoretical drop Every 50 Runs = 50 runs * 25 Minutes = 1 possible drop Every 20 Hours of farming on average.

Already unacceptable... But let's add insult to injury.

• The Vidar Reactor can roll from 30 to 100 capacity.
• The Lavan Reactor can roll from 23 to 70.

This means there's a very likely chance that once that reactor does drop after 20 hours of farming, it will actually be worse than the majority of common zekti reactors that  drop and often are near the 50 capacity cap... Which is exactly what happened to me and most people in my clan. I'm now the proud owner of a lavan with 32 capacity and a vidar with 46, after a full week of pretty much farming veil nonstop.

So yeah, this is really lame. Always hated 2% drop rates, but when you combine them with random rolls that can roll lower than the common drops, you got yourself a world of pain and frustration. It's making me hate Railjack and burning me out of the whole mode.

But enough complaining , here's some solutions.

1. Dramatically increase the drop chances of the reactors. They are essential for a fully modded railjack, it's unfair to lock them between such a low drop percentage. Maybe 10% would be a good number, just remove all the crappy relics and other clutter from the drop table and let us farm them reliably.
2. If you don't intend to make them easier to get , at least fix their stats so they start at 60/70+ capacity or something. Finally getting one only for it to be much worse than even a clantech mk3 variation sucks. Note that  is only a half-solution, as once you do get a 60/70 one, this means you'll still have to run multiple 20+ hours stretches to maybe get an upgrade.
3. How about making them drop from actual enemies too. I'm sick of getting only zekti parts from most missions, and getting frequent lavan and vidar would really help in feeling you're getting regular drops and potential progression on your railjack.
4. This one is more of a re-imagining, but I think the avionics capacity should be decoupled from reactors altogether. Relying on RNG to mod capacity sucks, and you can literally spending months running the same mission over and over and never get lucky and get a 90+ reactor, let alone attempt to get a 100 reactor. Why not just make it so that every point spent on the grid gives you avionics capacity, and reactors are only used for their flux capacity and their added perks.
5. Alternatively, why not allow people to reroll their rare parts, so when they finally get a vidar or lavan with bad stats, they can pay some of the new endo to reroll it till it gets a good capacity ?

I'll try to keep this bumped so you guys see this once you get back from vacation, but this is really a huge problem... That plus the exorbitant prices of repairing parts which also needs to be address so it doesn't feel like a pay-to win scheme to get us to pay 50p each time we get an upgrade.

Also, why do  i have a feeling this will all be pointless ,as you guys are bound to release MK4-5-6 parts sooner than later, making all this stuff obsolete.

i could not agree more. you spoke for all of us in this matter; the Lotus would be proud of you 😎

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

Got my 2nd Vidar Today, after a full week of running veil missions nonstop, the first one above the 50 cap ... a nearly unusable 58 Capacity one with 40 Flux capacity and a terrible third perk (Damage immunity after a major hull breach is twice as long). Losing 140 Flux capacity and getting 8 Capacity above my current best Zekti... Is not a good deal.

I've literally spend the entire week farming and have not received a single usable ugrade both in terms of components or avionics.

Really sucks that the current system doesn't reward effort, just randomly giving people stuff. A guy can run single veil mission and get lucky with a 99 avionics reactor, while a guy like me can spent upwards of 40 hours farming veil missions nonstop and not get a single usable reactor, how is this fair again ?

I'll also expand the complain to avionics. Pretty much all the mods you need are zekti variants with 2% drop rates... And the enemies have a 10% chance to drop items. People did the math and it ends up being akin to a 0.002% chance at getting the mod you want from killing that enemy type that drops the mod you want... That is if it doesn't drop and you miss it due to not having auto-pickup on avionics or parts. Once again rather insulting. Right now I don't really mind not having these mods because I simply do not have the capacity to run them, but the fact is , if I ever do get a decent reactor, it will only be step one of the grand farm, as I'll then need run saturn and earth missions over and over for that small chance to get the parts need.

Edited December 30, 2019 by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra

[(XBOX)DA ZACHYZACHY]

Too my knowledge they are removing the rng stat roles.

[HaxosawrusRex]

you shouldnt be spending more than 15 minutes a mission if you have good archguns. 

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

Another two days of farming, a single vidar reactor, a 50 capacity one... You back from vacation yet DE ?

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

Couple more days of farming and nothing to show for it. Got two unusable Vidar engines. I'm a little sad, spent pretty much my entire two weeks Christmas vacation running veil railjack missions and I did not get a single usable upgrade for my ship.

Edited January 3, 2020 by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

On 2019-12-27 at 2:08 PM, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

I have to vent about this. I've been farming the same stupid Veil Mission for the last five days nonstop to get a reactor with capacity above 50, since it's the only to get them, and it's the only thing holding back my railjack for reaching it's full potential. It's like being stuck unable to equip potatos and formas on a frame.

Let's do some quick math here.

• - Average run of a veil mission takes 25-35 minutes, depending of the quality of your team. Let's assume 25 minutes if you're good and you run the one mission that doesn't have side objectives (just kill the ships).
• 2% Drop Rate = 1 theoretical drop Every 50 Runs = 50 runs * 25 Minutes = 1 possible drop Every 20 Hours of farming on average.

Already unacceptable... But let's add insult to injury.

• The Vidar Reactor can roll from 30 to 100 capacity.
• The Lavan Reactor can roll from 23 to 70.

This means there's a very likely chance that once that reactor does drop after 20 hours of farming, it will actually be worse than the majority of common zekti reactors that  drop and often are near the 50 capacity cap... Which is exactly what happened to me and most people in my clan. I'm now the proud owner of a lavan with 32 capacity and a vidar with 46, after a full week of pretty much farming veil nonstop.

So yeah, this is really lame. Always hated 2% drop rates, but when you combine them with random rolls that can roll lower than the common drops, you got yourself a world of pain and frustration. It's making me hate Railjack and burning me out of the whole mode.

But enough complaining , here's some solutions.

1. Dramatically increase the drop chances of the reactors. They are essential for a fully modded railjack, it's unfair to lock them between such a low drop percentage. Maybe 10% would be a good number, just remove all the crappy relics and other clutter from the drop table and let us farm them reliably.
2. If you don't intend to make them easier to get , at least fix their stats so they start at 60/70+ capacity or something. Finally getting one only for it to be much worse than even a clantech mk3 variation sucks. Note that  is only a half-solution, as once you do get a 60/70 one, this means you'll still have to run multiple 20+ hours stretches to maybe get an upgrade.
3. How about making them drop from actual enemies too. I'm sick of getting only zekti parts from most missions, and getting frequent lavan and vidar would really help in feeling you're getting regular drops and potential progression on your railjack.
4. This one is more of a re-imagining, but I think the avionics capacity should be decoupled from reactors altogether. Relying on RNG to mod capacity sucks, and you can literally spending months running the same mission over and over and never get lucky and get a 90+ reactor, let alone attempt to get a 100 reactor. Why not just make it so that every point spent on the grid gives you avionics capacity, and reactors are only used for their flux capacity and their added perks.
5. Alternatively, why not allow people to reroll their rare parts, so when they finally get a vidar or lavan with bad stats, they can pay some of the new endo to reroll it till it gets a good capacity ?

I'll try to keep this bumped so you guys see this once you get back from vacation, but this is really a huge problem... That plus the exorbitant prices of repairing parts which also needs to be address so it doesn't feel like a pay-to win scheme to get us to pay 50p each time we get an upgrade.

Also, why do  i have a feeling this will all be pointless ,as you guys are bound to release MK4-5-6 parts sooner than later, making all this stuff obsolete.

So..... Quick question, would you be amenable to having the drop rate reduced to more realistic levels if they took out the RNG? 

We're talking about a small fraction of a percentage, the way it is in other games. 

 

I'm also curious if anyone has any math to show whether that really impacts on the probability of getting a top tier drop. Because right now it just looks like we're being given the lesser drops and can eventually upgrade to the better ones as warranted. 

I figure it's a case of "half a loaf of bread is better than no loaf of bread, unless the person asking really just wants money to buy booze and drugs". 

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

On 2020-01-03 at 2:47 PM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

So..... Quick question, would you be amenable to having the drop rate reduced to more realistic levels if they took out the RNG? 

We're talking about a small fraction of a percentage, the way it is in other games. 

 

I'm also curious if anyone has any math to show whether that really impacts on the probability of getting a top tier drop. Because right now it just looks like we're being given the lesser drops and can eventually upgrade to the better ones as warranted. 

I figure it's a case of "half a loaf of bread is better than no loaf of bread, unless the person asking really just wants money to buy booze and drugs". 

I suppose if the RNG aspect was out of the equation, the low % drop would be more justified in a "work hard to get something way (if you are lucky with RNJesus)"... Although I still feel 2 percent drop at end of mission is something that should not be due to the fluctuating nature of RNG (could take you 1 mission , 15 missions, 500 missions. There's already a long term-goal in railjack (the intrinsics), we don't need to spend most of that time using sub-optimal gear because they simply won't drop. Let people enjoy their new toys, get the cool mods and play with these systems. We should constantly be getting cool new parts

It does seem the ability to reroll parts should come down the road... I feel that's the way it should be. Get the part, then reroll it using the somewhat useless diracs (once you upgrade your grid and your mods, it's kinda piling up)... Ideallly with a system like the rivens where you can keep the previous roll if it was better).

That way, you can simply get a single copy of each maker's part, then "work on them" to reroll them till you like them over time. This creates a system where there's two ways to get the best gear (being lucky and getting it to drop or farming enough diracs to reroll these parts till you like them).

Edited January 5, 2020 by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

I suppose if the RNG aspect was out of the equation, the low % drop would be more justified in a "work hard to get something way (if you are lucky with RNJesus)"... Although I still feel 2 percent drop at end of mission is something that should not be due to the fluctuating nature of RNG (could take you 1 mission , 15 missions, 500 missions. There's already a long term-goal in railjack (the intrinsics), we don't need to spend most of that time using sub-optimal gear because they simply won't drop. Let people enjoy their new toys, get the cool mods and play with these systems.

It does seem the ability to reroll parts should come down the road... I feel that's the way it should be. Get the part, then reroll it using the somewhat useless diracs (once you upgrade your grid and your mods, it's kinda piling up)... Ideallly with a system like the rivens where you can keep the previous roll if it was better).

That way, you can simply get a single copy of each maker's part, then "work on them" to reroll them till you like them over time. This creates a system where there's two ways to get the best gear (being lucky and getting it to drop or farming enough diracs to reroll these parts till you like them).

Uh... So that's a "yes" was it? 

[Skaleek]

On 2019-12-30 at 1:40 PM, (XB1)DA ZACHYZACHY said:

Too my knowledge they are removing the rng stat roles.

Sounds like speculation, got any sources on this one?

[RS219]

On 2019-12-28 at 2:22 AM, DrakeWurrum said:

Yeeeeah I'm using the research version of the MK3 reactor, and it sounds like I'll be stuck with it for a while. =\

At least I have Zetki Hullweave, Bulkhead, and Hyperstrike already? I got lucky with those drops.

Wait a sec-I thought you had no issues whatsoever with this form of loot drop mechanics? Y'know, the impression I got from your recent "I don't give a damn" response?

I've no interest in tracking your profile comments, but it's just sad and strange to go through Empyrean threads and see you wiffle-waffle between "this is okay" and "this is not okay".

"Random stats don't have to be garbage", sure, but the "Extremes" in "Digital Extremes" isn't for nothing and they've shown they either go all out or not at all. Either they do something really great or they pull off a disastrous garbage fire, and Empyrean's RNG stats are exactly that. A disastrous garbage fire. And they seem very determined to keep on this trend of increased equipment RNG stats.

Edited January 5, 2020 by RS219

[RS219]

2 hours ago, Skaleek said:

Sounds like speculation, got any sources on this one?

No sources. Just an incredibly vague statement from Rebecca that they'll be "looking into" some "bugs" but have NOT said anything about the RNG other than a whole load of "Pride and accomplishment". Scott mentioned on Twitter that he's probably going to nix RNG variation of the same wreckage between squad members, so that everyone "advances together" (or suffers together more like when a <50 capacity mk3 vidar reactor drops).

Oh, get this bit: "... is in no way mandatory for any progress.". All the disappointed and angry posts about crappy Mk3 Vidar reactor rolls coupled with the high avionics cost for running Zetki avionics seems to indicate otherwise.

 

Edited January 5, 2020 by RS219

[(PSN)Fairfied]

agreed

[(PSN)Double991]

You know what sucks about those MKIII build costs? The Titanium.

I have at least 5 to 10 times the resources for each resource in an MKIII blueprint except the Titanium which has caused me to just use rush repair drones. The only MKIII item I actually built was the MKIII Tycho Seekers from the clan research because they cost 6k titanium. I have 11k left and that's not enough for any of the MKIII drops yet I have over 40,000 of the other stuff.

This design invalidates most of your farming in favor of paying plat.