Empyrean: Ivara Prime 27.0.11 - 27.0.11.3

[StrikeAgainst]

Am 17.1.2020 um 02:03 schrieb NoSpax:

Oh god thanks I'm getting flashbacks now O_O

[Takuun]

Glad you guys are back in business and getting things working, But do you have any plan of fixing Ivara's Veil? It's been bothering me since it's been broken and I've been desperately watching for the one line of text saying it's fixed.

[master_of_destiny]

18 hours ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

That's fine, no umbrage taken at disagreeing. I just find it to be, basically, such a "hard left turn" from what Warframe has been that it feels like a completely separate game - likely because there wasn't that full "connective tissue" implementation. However, I can only really work with what I have in front of me, and it's...okay. Railjack was an amusing sideline for a week or two, but nothing groundbreaking or redefining.

Now, I wasn't around when Archwing first came along, and so perhaps that felt very similar.

I would love to write a book, but Archwing's implementation was a large reason I took a hiatus from the game.

 

The short of this is that the mode launched insanely buggy, content poor, replaced so many tiles in the system with one of 3 mission types (exterminate, sabatoge, interception), and required grinding the mode to get items to grind the mode less frustratingly.  They took a long time to decrease the archwing nodes, have the pieces drop from syndicates, introduce new modes which were novel, and have the BPs for everything largely come from clan research.  It was almost DOA, and only recently developed connections with other game modes via the open world.  An open world where at one point you had to craft consumable summoning charges and enemies spammed nearly invisible projectiles which dropped you out of archwing, that is after you got a good dice roll and could actually target a spot where an archwing could be called to and actually used.

 

I would subjectively give archwing in its current state a pass with integration into the game.  They are better than k-drives, but still aren't useful for about 99% of the content.  Despite this, their few uses don't feel like a chore any more.  I'm hoping Railjack can boost that from 1% to about 15%, and Railjack itself can rise to around 10% usage.  I base this around Railjack having very high costs, broken scaling, and thus it has an upward cap on usage formed by both rewards and integration.  Right now it's more like a 0.3% usage, and the cap to this is the very low drop percentages on Quellor, Pennant, Shedu parts (despite the codex calling them common), and people desiring to max out their MR.

[hooperinius]

2 hours ago, master_of_destiny said:

I'm hoping Railjack can boost that from 1% to about 15%, and Railjack itself can rise to around 10% usage.

That'll require a lot of changes. When they announced railjack I figured it would be a powerful little ship that would take on much larger ships while you ran around in archwing killing fighters etc. Instead it's more of a slow moving turret platform and you use archwing to zoom towards the rear of crewships before the missiles hit you. The way warframe play works (running around smashing hundreds of enemies) I've a feeling a lot of other people had similar expectations.

 

[Ham_Grenabe]

5 minutes ago, hooperinius said:

That'll require a lot of changes. When they announced railjack I figured it would be a powerful little ship that would take on much larger ships while you ran around in archwing killing fighters etc. Instead it's more of a slow moving turret platform and you use archwing to zoom towards the rear of crewships before the missiles hit you. The way warframe play works (running around smashing hundreds of enemies) I've a feeling a lot of other people had similar expectations.

 

This is a good observation: moving about the map in a stately and dignified fashion, slowly killing a moderate amount of enemies, is not at all similar to the way Warframe generally is. 

[MidnightWyvern]

5 hours ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

This is a good observation: moving about the map in a stately and dignified fashion, slowly killing a moderate amount of enemies, is not at all similar to the way Warframe generally is. 

I will definitely agree that Railjack needs a MAJOR speed increase to most elements of the gameplay.  The controls are very solid and flying feels good, but any time you're not just dogfighting a swarm of Fighters you're back to feeling like you're driving a fully-loaded dumptruck as you slowly creep toward objectives that spawn 16 kilometers away, which should take no time at all to reach in a spacecraft.  Instead, the spacecraft feels like you're basically piloting a giant Warframe without legs as far as movement speed.

The fact that Archwings all easily outrun the freaking spaceship that they launch out of is a little nutty.  If the ship is so much slower, why not just not have it in the equation?  It should at least be able to keep up with or outrun Archwings.

[master_of_destiny]

5 hours ago, hooperinius said:

That'll require a lot of changes. When they announced railjack I figured it would be a powerful little ship that would take on much larger ships while you ran around in archwing killing fighters etc. Instead it's more of a slow moving turret platform and you use archwing to zoom towards the rear of crewships before the missiles hit you. The way warframe play works (running around smashing hundreds of enemies) I've a feeling a lot of other people had similar expectations.

 

I'm about to have a "you kids get off my yard" old person moment, so please laugh along with me or disregard this.

To this day my most used frame is Zephyr.  That's right, Zephyr and not Zephyr Prime.  Why?  I'd joke that I'm a masochist, but Zephyr used to be a lot of fun.  You jammed down three and got an instant shield.  You had enough armor to survive a random sneeze.  Most importantly though her 1 ability made it possible to get to secret rooms.  Yes, back in movement 1.0 you had Zephyr and super jump from Excalibur.  The game was much slower, frames had to dang near be cover shooting or stealth, and wiping out a dozen enemies was actually a challenge because you had bad melee and guns that were nerf.

 

Now we have movement 2.0.  Double jumping, bullet jumping, and all sorts of shenanigans are possible.  The game isn't what it was years ago, and that's mostly for the better.  Heck, I even remember Argon Crystals being introduced and all the hate that brought because a void key was required to do any mission with a chance to spawn one.  My point here is that, over years, the systems evolved.

 

Now I'm done with my praise.  I have set long term goals above, because DE has really failed to deliver with Railjack.  I had immense hopes they'd get a 50% delivery of what was promised...and then the back tracking started.  Tennocon 2018 unveiled both Fortuna and Railjack.  It showed some promise, even if rough was a charitable description of it.  They spent a year hyping up the features, selling it eventually as the next step after Fortuna rather than an integration.  It was basically trying to sell Christmas decorations on the same day that you put out stuff for Valentine's day (for those who don't get this it's decorating for December in January).

It didn't stop there though.  Liches, a feature touted as being highly integrated with Railjack, were stripped.  They got delivered as a painful grind which literally could not be completed by some because their thievery would prevent getting the relics, to grind for the mods, to grind for the murmurs, to build a 1 in 6 order list based entirely off of a dice roll after all of that RNG.  This was then further tempered by Railjack suddenly being delivered in pieces, so that the huge built-in waiting times were less transparent because you couldn't do anything else but wait over breaks, right?  It didn't stop there, the Railjack pieces have now been pared down, so Railjack was largely a No Man's Sky.  More importantly, it was one of dozens of No Man's Sky events DE has spent years getting away with because it's free to play.  All the while they can use the computer players to beta test, consoles get a less buggy version, and both parties think the other has it better and none of this is because DE can't build a good release candidate and pass it through testing like literally every other console game developer.

So we've got two "open worlds."  That's pretty much the extent of the content released in two years, with large portions of the content being dragged on for months after they officially "released."  Year three is a heck of a long time to perfect an "open world" that remains 10% content and 90% running between those small content patches.  In that time the game modes introduced highlight the problem with level scaling (arbitrations), asked us to grind to the moon to have all of that power stripped (Grendel mission), were good except for the initial rewards (disruption), was a transparent copy-paste (Infested Boil), and gave us an affinity grindstone which took 20 minutes for a chance to get something good while showing off broken scaling and being a simple meat grinder with a timer (ESO/SO).

You'd be forgiven for thinking that I hate the game after all of that, but you'd be wrong.  I hate that all of these things would have been great for a truly indie game.  The problem is that DE is not an indie developer.  They aren't the tiny company that could.  They aren't the auteurs producing art.  They aren't even the company you want to give money to help support.  I lost all of these illusions when the first Tennogen items came out, and it was highlighted that DE is willing to charge in excess of 5 USD for a cosmetic skin, which cannot be purchased with their in-game currency, and they're still charging for the prime access and introducing things with sub 1% drop rates to grind extended missions for (xiphos).  I hate that DE can't ever seem to make and release something without poisoning the well months or even years in advance with promises they don't deliver on.  Mostly, I hate that DE is acting like they are doing us a favor delivering any content, claiming that things are a success by conducting surveys from biased sources, and after a month have only been able to deliver number changes to a game mode which needs a heck of a lot more love.

I would sum it into one word; disappointment.

 

 

To the earlier comment, 10% is the goal for 2020 and maybe 2021.  Rebuild the systems, integrate rewards, make it less painful, allow for solo play because grouping is often a mess, and give us a real fun experience.  I expect another few weeks of half hearted number changes before we get another faction wedged in and the mode gets to die a slow death until the slight resurgence when the command system is rammed through.  The current stat of Railjack is something I hope for, in the same way I hope to win the lottery.  It'd be nice if it happened, but betting on seeing a win here anytime soon is foolish.  I'm still waiting for Zephyr Deluxe years later, the chainsaw from the expired, vehicles, and most importantly a Nightwave intermission that endures less than the "main events."

DE continues to bite off too much, never learns their lesson, and hasn't yet understood that they fail because hype years in advance leads to even good systems being mediocre.  The problem is they deliver mediocre, hide behind the people willing to say it's free to play and a beta, and any time we get angry with this hypocrisy we're all man babies and entitled for wanting what they promised years ago.  I want DE to stop hurting themselves and us, and just be quiet.  Show what is coming in a week or at most a month, and stop talking about things so far off that they can't be adequately evaluated. 

Case in point, Pablo jokes about nerfing Saryn.  Community loses their mind.  Claim is that the stream was "private" while discussing work matters.  While it was supposed to be a joke, retroactively defined, you can't do that in a public setting where you're representing a company to the world.  The problem is that you do something exactly like this every other week.  If you want a poignant other example, let's look at the thumpers.  Please learn to temper the enthusiasm with a helping of pursed lips, so when you do release we have something to be excited about.  As a positive final note, the ship in the veil and its content was nice.  That was a success because after more than a year something shown was introduced without monumental hype.  It's a good thing too, considering if it was hyped there's be a lot of people less than pleased with its performance (myself included).

[Silescere]

I just noticed while re-coloring my orbiter, that the primary and tertiary color overlap or mix. Much like our emissives. I was going nuts trying to find out where the brown came from, when I had only red and green. Can you please de-mix that?

[Ham_Grenabe]

@master_of_destiny, amusingly a lot of that old game still exists - it's just compressed into the first mastery rank or three. I started in earnest after Movement 2.0, but early play was slow, stealthy, and a cluster of enemies or the appearance of a heavy gunner could kick your ass.* Jumping around like a hooligan was not as helpful as hiding behind boxes, and then after the fight cracking every crate and opening every locker thinking "It'd be nice if you could DROP A HEALTH ORB." 

 

* Or at least mine. I'm an old man. 

[Prime_Reckoner]

9 hours ago, master_of_destiny said:

I'm about to have a "you kids get off my yard" old person moment, so please laugh along with me or disregard this.

To this day my most used frame is Zephyr.  That's right, Zephyr and not Zephyr Prime.  Why?  I'd joke that I'm a masochist, but Zephyr used to be a lot of fun.  You jammed down three and got an instant shield.  You had enough armor to survive a random sneeze.  Most importantly though her 1 ability made it possible to get to secret rooms.  Yes, back in movement 1.0 you had Zephyr and super jump from Excalibur.  The game was much slower, frames had to dang near be cover shooting or stealth, and wiping out a dozen enemies was actually a challenge because you had bad melee and guns that were nerf.

 

Now we have movement 2.0.  Double jumping, bullet jumping, and all sorts of shenanigans are possible.  The game isn't what it was years ago, and that's mostly for the better.  Heck, I even remember Argon Crystals being introduced and all the hate that brought because a void key was required to do any mission with a chance to spawn one.  My point here is that, over years, the systems evolved.

 

Now I'm done with my praise.  I have set long term goals above, because DE has really failed to deliver with Railjack.  I had immense hopes they'd get a 50% delivery of what was promised...and then the back tracking started.  Tennocon 2018 unveiled both Fortuna and Railjack.  It showed some promise, even if rough was a charitable description of it.  They spent a year hyping up the features, selling it eventually as the next step after Fortuna rather than an integration.  It was basically trying to sell Christmas decorations on the same day that you put out stuff for Valentine's day (for those who don't get this it's decorating for December in January).

It didn't stop there though.  Liches, a feature touted as being highly integrated with Railjack, were stripped.  They got delivered as a painful grind which literally could not be completed by some because their thievery would prevent getting the relics, to grind for the mods, to grind for the murmurs, to build a 1 in 6 order list based entirely off of a dice roll after all of that RNG.  This was then further tempered by Railjack suddenly being delivered in pieces, so that the huge built-in waiting times were less transparent because you couldn't do anything else but wait over breaks, right?  It didn't stop there, the Railjack pieces have now been pared down, so Railjack was largely a No Man's Sky.  More importantly, it was one of dozens of No Man's Sky events DE has spent years getting away with because it's free to play.  All the while they can use the computer players to beta test, consoles get a less buggy version, and both parties think the other has it better and none of this is because DE can't build a good release candidate and pass it through testing like literally every other console game developer.

So we've got two "open worlds."  That's pretty much the extent of the content released in two years, with large portions of the content being dragged on for months after they officially "released."  Year three is a heck of a long time to perfect an "open world" that remains 10% content and 90% running between those small content patches.  In that time the game modes introduced highlight the problem with level scaling (arbitrations), asked us to grind to the moon to have all of that power stripped (Grendel mission), were good except for the initial rewards (disruption), was a transparent copy-paste (Infested Boil), and gave us an affinity grindstone which took 20 minutes for a chance to get something good while showing off broken scaling and being a simple meat grinder with a timer (ESO/SO).

You'd be forgiven for thinking that I hate the game after all of that, but you'd be wrong.  I hate that all of these things would have been great for a truly indie game.  The problem is that DE is not an indie developer.  They aren't the tiny company that could.  They aren't the auteurs producing art.  They aren't even the company you want to give money to help support.  I lost all of these illusions when the first Tennogen items came out, and it was highlighted that DE is willing to charge in excess of 5 USD for a cosmetic skin, which cannot be purchased with their in-game currency, and they're still charging for the prime access and introducing things with sub 1% drop rates to grind extended missions for (xiphos).  I hate that DE can't ever seem to make and release something without poisoning the well months or even years in advance with promises they don't deliver on.  Mostly, I hate that DE is acting like they are doing us a favor delivering any content, claiming that things are a success by conducting surveys from biased sources, and after a month have only been able to deliver number changes to a game mode which needs a heck of a lot more love.

I would sum it into one word; disappointment.

 

 

To the earlier comment, 10% is the goal for 2020 and maybe 2021.  Rebuild the systems, integrate rewards, make it less painful, allow for solo play because grouping is often a mess, and give us a real fun experience.  I expect another few weeks of half hearted number changes before we get another faction wedged in and the mode gets to die a slow death until the slight resurgence when the command system is rammed through.  The current stat of Railjack is something I hope for, in the same way I hope to win the lottery.  It'd be nice if it happened, but betting on seeing a win here anytime soon is foolish.  I'm still waiting for Zephyr Deluxe years later, the chainsaw from the expired, vehicles, and most importantly a Nightwave intermission that endures less than the "main events."

DE continues to bite off too much, never learns their lesson, and hasn't yet understood that they fail because hype years in advance leads to even good systems being mediocre.  The problem is they deliver mediocre, hide behind the people willing to say it's free to play and a beta, and any time we get angry with this hypocrisy we're all man babies and entitled for wanting what they promised years ago.  I want DE to stop hurting themselves and us, and just be quiet.  Show what is coming in a week or at most a month, and stop talking about things so far off that they can't be adequately evaluated. 

Case in point, Pablo jokes about nerfing Saryn.  Community loses their mind.  Claim is that the stream was "private" while discussing work matters.  While it was supposed to be a joke, retroactively defined, you can't do that in a public setting where you're representing a company to the world.  The problem is that you do something exactly like this every other week.  If you want a poignant other example, let's look at the thumpers.  Please learn to temper the enthusiasm with a helping of pursed lips, so when you do release we have something to be excited about.  As a positive final note, the ship in the veil and its content was nice.  That was a success because after more than a year something shown was introduced without monumental hype.  It's a good thing too, considering if it was hyped there's be a lot of people less than pleased with its performance (myself included).

I wouldnt call fortuna content. Its just a copy-paste plains. Its 3x bigger and white af. Only "content" in that was the amazing song lol.

Meanwhile, take a look at steamcharts...completely different scenario. The trends are alarming.

[master_of_destiny]

6 hours ago, Prime_Reckoner said:

I wouldnt call fortuna content. Its just a copy-paste plains. Its 3x bigger and white af. Only "content" in that was the amazing song lol.

Meanwhile, take a look at steamcharts...completely different scenario. The trends are alarming.

I'll agree to disagree of Fortuna.  The formula was the exact same, but the ingredient differ.  By that logic the game ends after five missions, and everything else is just copy and paste.

Regarding Steam...it's a lot less reliable in this instance.  You can download the launcher without Steam, the transversal into consoles has given a whole new user base that hasn't seen some of the shenanigans, and the charts can be interpreted to match content drops so there's an argument that declines will rebound at the next content drop.  I say all of this because three and some change years ago I was in the same space.  Archwing sucked, the content was slow an barely bi-monthly for a few items, while it seemed like the only reason to play was grinding keys to grind prime gear.  Baro was a novelty, and prime junk literally clogged inventories because it couldn't be sold or traded.  DE brought the game back by streamlining Archwing, having the void "blow up," and introducing the operator and old war.

I firmly believe that could be repeated, but it'll be the last chance.  DE hemorrhages players because of hubris, and they seem to think their pool of loyal players is infinite.  I hope they don't learn its actual limits.

[TheTodesfall]

Make all railjack resources drop at the end of the mission the farm for titanium is boring and unnecessary both by how you farm it by running for 30 minutes each mission and break "containers" and still with that you need to farm for 6 hours for 1 part this is not okay.

[Kefirno]

Black walls still randomly appear when you're using side turrets (unless you're host I guess). I've been seeing this bug since Empyrean release and it's still not fixed.

[XennethKeisere]

Is there anyone who can confirm the reload bug with Tactical Reload, etc. is being worked on? I miss using these mods and weapons (Ferrox Scourge and Javlok are also affected).

[maxximuxx]

There's a bug on exiting the crew if you skip you go directly to mission waypoint and sometimes even get stuck inside the tile itself pls look into it

[Azrael_V]

Thanks for the changes to the Reactors Stats. I just built a +97 Avionics Vidar which I'm so glad I held onto and its making my Railjack life so much easier. More importantly its great to see you guys taking feedback seriously which has reduced my overall cynicism prior to these updates. Can you guys please add the ability to have different Avionic Loadouts like we have on our Warframes and weapons. It'll be great to experiment with different builds especially since Zetki Reactors with high Flux are now at least viable with a min Avionics cap of 70. Can we also have the ability to bind Piloting Meneauvors to Controllers. Currently I have to bind mine to my keyboard while piloting with the Controller which is a pain. Overall though thanks for the changes.