Revenant is no so bad and actually kinda fun

[Travis05]

I read a lot of complaints in the forums about Revenant. I understand why.

His abilities suck when you are playing with people. I think the main purpose of Revenant is confusion. Enthrall would be his main ability. Making enemies fight each other and generate a big chaos. His other abilities then support the first one. Mesmer skin to protect yourself and make Enthrall free of cost. Reave to collect health and shield from enthralled enemies. And finally Danse Macabre to clear the battlefield. And yeah it benefits again from killing thralls too.

Whats the problem? Everything depends on his first ability. And the most common scenario on warframe is everyone is overpowered and blind. Swinging their weapons around. They wont care if they are your thralls. They will kill them at first sight and rush the mission to go on to the next one. So you cant make thralls, and sure your abilities still work but your purpose is no more. Your warframe might as well have random abilities.

There are two situations where you can play Revenant: When the mission is no ridiculously low and the enemies dont drop like flies, so they stay in the battlefield. There is a certain challenge and you can use Enthrall. Or you playing solo. So in most situations you will feel frustrated if you want to play like revenant.

The missions where i really loved to use him. And he made really them much easier: Interception and Hijack. It was very fun seeing them hit each other, they didnt stand a chance to catch the vehicle on hijack. And mostly every mission with a big number of enemies is good for Revenant i think. Interception was a good example of that, they couldnt capture the points cause they were too busy fighting.

So yeah i guess Revenant can be niche. Or he wouldnt be niche if the game were always challenging and the enemies lasted more than one hit. But thats something impossible to manage i think

Edited January 27, 2020 by Travis05

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

1 hour ago, Travis05 said:

I think the main purpose of Revenant is confusion. Enthrall would be his main ability. Making enemies fight each other and generate a big chaos.

That's exactly his problem. That's Nyx's role, not his. He is the Eidolon/Sentient Warframe and should have skills that reflect that.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

“His abilities suck when you play with people”

this is a co-op game. If squad mates existing immediately makes you irrelevant to the mission, you’re a bad frame. If you’re abilities contradict and anti-synergize more than they synergize, you’re a bad frame.

Revenants only real use is casting Danse Macabre, but what’s the point of using him for that when you can use other frames that provide better AOE damage and several other benefits.

And don’t even get me start on the cluster**** that is his theme.

DE just needs to completely rework his first 3 abilities and passive.

 

[IceColdHawk]

Saying Enthrall is his main ability that you should focus around, is like saying Molt is Saryn's main ability.

If you're just going for creating "chaos" on the battlefield, you'd rather play Nyx and cast 3...

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

50 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Saying Enthrall is his main ability that you should focus around, is like saying Molt is Saryn's main ability.

If you're just going for creating "chaos" on the battlefield, you'd rather play Nyx and cast 3...

It’s the anchor point for all his synergizes. That’s a very important role. And Enthrall fails at that role because it will be killed before you ever get to use them.

[ES-Flinter]

Revenant is kinda like Ash. Both can do their jobs very well. But in a team they're both useless and for Solo you have much better options. 

[(XBOX)Red Dough Boy]

His theme may not fit according to most but he plays like a tanky Nyx. The reason I don't take him into most missions with allies is because your thralls die way too quick. 

"Hey, those guys with the mark above their heads are thralls. DON'T kill them."

*thralls are the first targeted* 

 

To fit his theme his first could summon Vomvalysts or some other Eidolon unit, and they'd be immune to allied fire. Or I'd like an augment that makes thralls immune to ally fire and has them die when Enthrall ends. 

[Madway7]

9 hours ago, Travis05 said:

Whats the problem? Everything depends on his first ability. And the most common scenario on warframe is everyone is overpowered and blind. Swinging their weapons around. They wont care if they are your thralls. They will kill them at first sight and rush the mission to go on to the next one. So you cant make thralls, and sure your abilities still work but your purpose is no more. Your warframe might as well have random abilities.

Outside of the theme clash (which is a very subjective issue to have), yes, this is the core issue. An ability that doesn't naturally spread fast enough that has a slow cast time (I know natural talent exists, shouldn't be mandatory on Revenant) is fundamentally flawed in my eyes.

Currently the spread mechanic is weak because of 2 things, the enemy cap and the fact that only half the secondary spread works. 

What is secondary spread? A secondary would be an AoE where the ability works to infect more enemies after the initial spread. (such as popping spores on enemies that have spores while it was already active)

The first spread with Revenant is the enemy getting "infected" and shooting other enemies, which spreads the AI debuff. Problem with this spread is generally that it relies heavily on AI and is dependent on the situation, such as thrall being useless if it gets stun locked (which I have seen happen).

The second spread is the pillars dead thralls leave behind, the current issue being that if a thrall was made using the pillar dies, they do not create another one, breaking the cycle.

 

That's just one issue with how he works rn, the other issues are with his synergies themselves.

 

Such as Reave needing to be used on thralls to get the listed UI lifesteal (the non thrall lifesteal is not listed in the game). Not really an issue as much as a nitpick tho.

 

His 2 giving free Mesmer Skin casts is meh imo, the ability doesn't cost that much I would rather it just convert them automatically (like it was shown initially, albeit back then it had a 3 layer thrall system)

 

His 4 detonating pillars is, the damage is ok depending on the level from what ive seen, but it's not worth losing the pillars for it.

His 4 generating overshields with thrall kills is just bad, mostly with how Mesmer Skin works, even if it weren't for Mesmer Skin the energy cost still makes it a bad preposition to use this method as an overshield generator. (that's without mentioning that the overshields are a set amount per pickup)

 

 

Other things that annoy me about him

 

His mesmer skin animation personally annoys me a bit, would rather it just be a copy paste of Nidus' 4 animation with a new sound

His dance macabre animation, I hope it gets changed and the ability be made in a different way (because how it currently functions is tied to the animation)

 

And the whole theme mix mash if that wasn't evident, I would prefer a complete overhaul personally, just base his powers more off the eidolons and not vomvalysts, mind control with a copy paste of Amesha's 1.

 

9 hours ago, Travis05 said:

The missions where i really loved to use him. And he made really them much easier: Interception and Hijack. It was very fun seeing them hit each other, they didnt stand a chance to catch the vehicle on hijack. And mostly every mission with a big number of enemies is good for Revenant i think. Interception was a good example of that, they couldnt capture the points cause they were too busy fighting.

I don't see a point in using him for either of those, mostly interception, because while CC does have a purpose there I don't see a 7 cap full AI debuff + aggro draw really helping much, mostly because the points aren't always close by. The A.I. can also sometimes go on full priority mode and ignore thralls in favor of capping a point (unless they stealth buffed the aggro draw since last time I've tried it). 

Anyways interception isn't something a lot of people like and personally I just use Nova for it.

 

Hijack is just a rush mission, which you can't really rush, but it's the same thing conceptually of "do it as fast as possible". So nobody cares about that so long as the payload reaches the end without failure or delays.

(Although Revenant would have been great for LoR and Nightmare LoR Hijack if we still had those)

 

 

 

[Tiltskillet]

Obvious Gearsbait post is obvious Gearsbait. 😛

 

[Benour]

12 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

“His abilities suck when you play with people”

this is a co-op game. If squad mates existing immediately makes you irrelevant to the mission, you’re a bad frame. If you’re abilities contradict and anti-synergize more than they synergize, you’re a bad frame.

Revenants only real use is casting Danse Macabre, but what’s the point of using him for that when you can use other frames that provide better AOE damage and several other benefits.

And don’t even get me start on the cluster**** that is his theme.

DE just needs to completely rework his first 3 abilities and passive.

 

AHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAH "Revenants only real use is casting Danse Macabre" dude made my day. Plase stop im dying laughing 😂

So by this i call it "Gearologic" when you have Saryn/Equinox/Gara in team nuking whole map right, doesnt matter what frame you bring its gonna suck right? Cause its irrelevant right? Since its not gonna do anything since nuker is nuking whole map right? So any frame you bring in situation like that needs rework right?                                    BOOOOM here we go guys this is some BIG BRAIN thinking right there boiiiii.

Also using Revenant as DPS cause he can spin around like Elton John, yeah dude i hope you having lots of fun with that (while OWNING dem lvl 40s) 😂

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, Benour said:

AHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAH "Revenants only real use is casting Danse Macabre" dude made my day. Plase stop im dying laughing 😂

So by this i call it "Gearologic" when you have Saryn/Equinox/Gara in team nuking whole map right, doesnt matter what frame you bring its gonna suck right? Cause its irrelevant right? Since its not gonna do anything since nuker is nuking whole map right? So any frame you bring in situation like that needs rework right?                                    BOOOOM here we go guys this is some BIG BRAIN thinking right there boiiiii.

Also using Revenant as DPS cause he can spin around like Elton John, yeah dude i hope you having lots of fun with that (while OWNING dem lvl 40s) 😂

So we shouldn’t rework a frame that isn’t performing at the, or near the same level as the top Warframes of its category? Shouldn’t the goal be to make all frames good?

Edited January 28, 2020 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[selig_fay]

Well, nuckers is also a niche. Just because you can kill things everywhere doesn't make you useful everywhere, like spy missions. There are frames that are garbage. There are frames that specialize in one thing, like nuckers in AOE dps, frost/gara/limbo in group and object protection, or Trinity/harrow in group support. There are frames who specialize in CC and who are waiting for a rework, because CC is no longer much in demand. There are frames that are Jack-of-all-trades, like nidus/wisp/hildryn and etc, that don't actually have strengths, but also don't have weaknesses, where the strength of the frame depends on the equipment and compliance with the frame mechanics.

The revenant has 1 problem - it concentrates only on its own survivability. The revenant is supposed to be a Jack-of-all-trades, but its bonuses, other than survival, are so weak that it turns it into an old Wukong.

For example, his only buff ability is in the form of a Mesmer skin that has only 1 stack per ally. I play through ally halo for Nezha on a radiation outing and I can say that chasing random allies is a bit of a hassle. And here you are offered a very fun mechanics, in which you have to chase an ally using the ability of weak vertical mobility. You know, frames jump like monkeys.

Danse Macabre - I'm only interested in this ability as a weapon status. But, this ability has a very low tick rate, which puts it in futility on a level with the Wisp ray.

And thralls. I don't understand why you can't give the Revenant an infinite duration ability like Saryn did. Yes, your allies will still kill thralls, but Saryn has the same problem. If you kill all mobs that are affected by spores, the ability will end. Yes, the revenant has a cap of 7 thralls. But each thrall leaves an energy well that can also generate thralls. Now this doesn't work just because a thrall that was generated using energy well won't create energy well at death.

 

[Borg1611]

I think if they sped up his base cast speeds and removed some of the contradictory mechanics he'd feel a lot better. For me it was never about him not being able to do some particular content, I just hate his kit because it feels contradictory + I hated his cast times and find it obnoxious when I'm forced to use natural talent just to get a frame feeling like it should feel baseline. 

For example, what's the point of his 4 absorbing damage to increase its damage if mesmer skin CCs the enemy that's shooting you so that you can no longer absorb damage (even though they made that one shot they get in still count with mesmer up)? I also hate that energy pillars have a chance to enthrall new enemies, but those enemies can't become energy pillars and your 4 blows up your existing energy pillars because somebody decided to try to force one too many "synergies" into his kit. 

I would:

1) make energy pillars have zero interaction with his 4 (stop blowing them up, this is useless and counters an actually useful mechanic from the pillars)

2) make thralls enthralled by energy pillars still make energy pillars when they die, but instead add a cap to how many energy pillars you can have active at once making new ones replace the oldest one (5 maybe?)

I'd also maybe change his 4s interaction with mesmer skin. I'm not sure what would make the most sense though. Maybe while mesmer skin + his 4 are active at the same time it no longer CCs enemies and doesn't lose charges but instead becomes a 90% DR temporarily while his 4 is active (but the DR doesn't count against the damage you absorb), or maybe casting his 4 just automatically refreshes the charges to full and possibly adds another charge for every enemy you kill, fast attacking enemies could still shred the charges if you did it that way though. I don't really care as much about this as the contradictions in his thrall/energy pillar mechanics though. 

 

[TearsOfTomorrow]

You people really need to find something more constructive to do with your time, than wondering which warframe is "meta" and which isn't. Be like me: play solo, play whatever you want, play it however you want. Then nothing will be "overpowered" or "underpowered" anymore.

Because guess what? Warframe is a strictly PVE game with no PVP component to speak of (unless you count Conclave, which you shouldn't). Meaning that, outside of "lol I haz moar kilz then u git gud nub gg ez" (something which is pathetically pointless anyway) there is no form of competition in this game.

Meaning that, regardless of the mission/content type, there's never going to be anything on the line: if you succeed you immediately proceed to the next mission, and if you fail you just try again. The whole concept of "meta" is therefore entirely meaningless, especially given how easy the game is: talk all you want about how weak Nyx is, but even her could easily overcome 90% of the content with a bloody Braton. 

The "meta" of Warframe pretty much boils down to discussing how this weapon can clear a room of high-level enemies in 2 seconds, while this other one can do so in 1.99999999999999999998 seconds: if you think such a discussion holds any significance or impacts in any way the day to day gameplay experience of the average player, well, you have the constitutional right to be wrong.

Some people are going to enjoy Revenant for what he is, and do content with him perfectly fine. Others are going to dislike his flaws (be them real or perceived) and steer clear of him: in short, both kinds of players are going to play whatever the hell they damn well please. Regardless of topics like this one.

[Teridax68]

I'm going to have to agree with Gears on this one: if a character in a co-op game is designed in such a way that they clash with co-op play, then the character is poorly designed and ought to be changed. I also agree with LoisGordils in that confusion and enemy manipulation are Nyx's thing, not Revenant's, and in general Revenant has a serious identity issue in that his kit is split into two, with his 1-3 belonging to his original Vlad concept, and his 4 turning him into an Eidolon frame. He scales a lot better than most give him credit for, and there's perhaps a flow to using some of his abilities together, but I'd still argue that he needs an overhaul, and whatever is currently enjoyable on him, e.g. his minions, his combos, etc., should be preserved in some abstract form.

Without dropping a full concept right off the bat, I think an easy way to preserve Revenant's minion-mancing, while making him distinct from Nyx, would be for his minions to be Vomvalysts, rather than other enemies: if Revenant could generate Vomvalyst minions in some form, e.g. by killing enemies or the like, he'd still have his personal army that he'd get to use to distract and fight enemies, and it would come with the significant benefit of allowing those minions to be immune to friendly fire without disrupting play, and also giving them their own stats so that they a) aim properly and b) deal sufficient damage, unlike enemies pitted against each other.

[ES-Flinter]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb TearsOfTomorrow:

You people really need to find something more constructive to do with your time, than wondering which warframe is "meta" and which isn't. Be like me: play solo, play whatever you want, play it however you want. Then nothing will be "overpowered" or "underpowered" anymore.

Because guess what? Warframe is a strictly PVE game with no PVP component to speak of (unless you count Conclave, which you shouldn't). Meaning that, outside of "lol I haz moar kilz then u git gud nub gg ez" (something which is pathetically pointless anyway) there is no form of competition in this game.

Meaning that, regardless of the mission/content type, there's never going to be anything on the line: if you succeed you immediately proceed to the next mission, and if you fail you just try again. The whole concept of "meta" is therefore entirely meaningless, especially given how easy the game is: talk all you want about how weak Nyx is, but even her could easily overcome 90% of the content with a bloody Braton. 

The "meta" of Warframe pretty much boils down to discussing how this weapon can clear a room of high-level enemies in 2 seconds, while this other one can do so in 1.99999999999999999998 seconds: if you think such a discussion holds any significance or impacts in any way the day to day gameplay experience of the average player, well, you have the constitutional right to be wrong.

Some people are going to enjoy Revenant for what he is, and do content with him perfectly fine. Others are going to dislike his flaws (be them real or perceived) and steer clear of him: in short, both kinds of players are going to play whatever the hell they damn well please. Regardless of topics like this one.

I think you missunderstood something. That Revenant isn't is in the meta isn't the problem. The problem is his kit/ Concept overall. I can't say very much about this, because for me is Revenant just the index/ Raptorlyst farmer. But if you read the other comments you will realise, that the main issue seems to be the synergy in his kit.

Like I said before. Revenant is actually just like Ash. Both a very strong. But both have a big problem with what they really are.

vor 10 Stunden schrieb TearsOfTomorrow:

talk all you want about how weak Nyx is, but even her could easily overcome 90% of the content with a bloody Braton. 

It's no secret that every weapon can do the starchart. But only Ash, Ivara and Hildryn are capable of to beat the star chart with out the use of any weapon, Operator, ... .^^

[(PSN)Vexx757]

On 2020-01-27 at 10:33 PM, ES-Flinter said:

Revenant is kinda like Ash. Both can do their jobs very well. But in a team they're both useless and for Solo you have much better options. 

As much as Ash is my main frame, I can`t argue that and that's why Ash needs a revisit.

[Turtle_Recall]

When playing Revenant it becomes clear that he was originally intended to be 3 other warframes.
 

The first warframe being vlad or the vampire and is shown in his 1st 2nd and 3rd abilities with stuff like enthralling, leaching life, and putting stuff to sleep.

I would imagine if the eidolon theme didn't come around he would've looked a lot cooler as a warframe, and that his 3 would've looked like bats instead of a weird wave of energy.
 

The Second is the eidolon themed warframe which seems was added on towards the end of his build because his abilities just seem to be skinned to fit the eidolon theme with the exception of his 4th ability and the 2nd part of his 1st ability.
 

And the Third is a revenant, which he has the least remaining characteristics of, as it stands his abilities have nothing to do with undeath and the only reason that he would have this name is the quest in which he is resurrected by the player as a usable warframe, and that's it.
 

and for another thing why the hell is the warframe that has a quest that says he's slain hundreds of eidolons have no real connection to eidolons and offers no upsides to using him in eidolon hunts.

I feel like DE should take revenant into one of these directions because as it stands he seems to just be a bunch of ideas slapped together and not fully realised.

[Turtle_Recall]

Another note is that I feel like his 4 ruined the warframe, it is a very lazy ability.

[GPrime96]

@(XB1)GearsMatrix301 ^^Looks like your kind of Post

Edited February 15, 2020 by GPrime96

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, GPrime96 said:

@(XB1)GearsMatrix301 ^^Looks like your kind of Post

Already been here.