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How do people feel about Liches now with changes in the works?


Tenno76856
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It’s a very good reduction of grind and potential time waste. I still am waiting for the system to be expanded and become more dynamic however, gimme some more lich personality types and something else to do that isn’t thrall farming.

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I don't see this making people more likely to like/play lich missions. People are going to get the new weapons and that's about it. Prices for the ephemera are going to be lower, but I don't see that many more people farming for them. And then there are some people, like me, who stopped farming liches, because they only had a few weapons left and the chance to get the one they were looking for was very low.

The changes mean less grind, but it's not making a significant difference to the gameplay.

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2 minutes ago, Hawk_of_the_Reborn said:

The removal of the back-breaker on failed stab is a bad direction. I'll never touch liches again if DE doesn't reconsider

All that was doing was reducing the amount of affinity you got out of those missions, which was actually annoying.
It was also "punishing" players without them doing anything wrong. Sure most of the time a death isn't really relevant, but that's just another problem.

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3 minutes ago, gluih said:

I don't see this making people more likely to like/play lich missions. People are going to get the new weapons and that's about it. Prices for the ephemera are going to be lower, but I don't see that many more people farming for them. And then there are some people, like me, who stopped farming liches, because they only had a few weapons left and the chance to get the one they were looking for was very low.

The changes mean less grind, but it's not making a significant difference to the gameplay.

 

The dev workshop seemed to have the idea that they are going to work out the core problems before they expand on its gameplay. There’s still a part 3 to be written where they talk about integrating railjack and other factions.

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8 minutes ago, gluih said:

All that was doing was reducing the amount of affinity you got out of those missions, which was actually annoying.
It was also "punishing" players without them doing anything wrong. Sure most of the time a death isn't really relevant, but that's just another problem.

It was punishing players for getting a wrong stab. It's annoying without the back breaker.

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Liches are still the worst content island in the game IMO. Not the most islandy, I mean, just the worst one. Thematically and lorewise, nothing about them makes sense, and the gameplay is an incoherent slog. There's no explanation for why our Tenno want to spawn liches, but mechanically it's completely opt-in, and everything else follows this theme, where we're really shopping but the game is trying to tell us we're being hunted and it's ludonarrative dissonance out the ass.

The changes remove a couple of the problems - you'll no longer be stuck with a Kraken lich with no incentive to deal with them, and you'll no longer be directly punished for playing. That makes them slightly better as a weapon farm. But they are only successful as a weapon farm right now. Everything else about them is garbage.

I also have a pet lore fix now, which means I won't be able to appreciate whatever DE does with liches: Make them random warlords we take out a contract on with Steel Meridian. Make the gameplay the same as it is (as of the coming update) except that requiem progress is per mission instead of using thralls, leveling liches up is opt-in for quicker returns on requiem progress, and the lich you have a contract on will hunt you Stalker-style for your interference until you kill them. (And I do mean kill, with conversions no longer a thing.) Make the reward a lich token and a chance at an ephemera drop. Trade tokens to Cressa for kuva weapons (without valences) at a rate of 1 per Kraken, 3 per Chakkurr, or Palladino for an RNG kuva valence, which (until it's consumed by application to a kuva weapon) is the only tradeable item in the system. Done, I've fixed liches.

Edited by CopperBezel
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14 minutes ago, Hawk_of_the_Reborn said:

It was punishing players for getting a wrong stab. It's annoying without the back breaker.

^^ After the change to the wrong Requiem guess, there would be no Punishment or Risk. So it would just be like fighting a low health gated Railjack Commander and that’s it.

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Just now, Spoop3 said:

 

The dev workshop seemed to have the idea that they are going to work out the core problems before they expand on its gameplay. There’s still a part 3 to be written where they talk about integrating railjack and other factions.

At least I only really care about that part. Not sure how that went so bad in the first place. Maybe because it was supposed to be part of railjack and that took too long? And it would have been nice to at least hear what their plans are to integrate liches better into the rest of the game.

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I like a lot of the changes, can't wait to try them out! Pretty excited for the new guns, especially that bow! Oooft! 

I think the only semi let down for me is the lack of interaction with the converted liches still, sure what we got now is a great addition but I dunno man, I was kinda hoping for more with it. I have some pretty cool Liches converted (and some awful ones) and I was hoping to see more of them in some way, maybe like having special influence missions for extra loot or murmurs etc. 

Still it's a start, hope it gets more fleshed in the future but I will for sure enjoy what we're getting now!  

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I'll waste the 15 forma, sell the new weapons, then go back to prebuilding 65 for the corpus liches. The changes were absolutely mandatory to not have this content island continue to be a slap in the face of a gamer's time investment.

Aside from that, Liches just arent designed well. They lack character variety, they are like every other part of the game segregated into their own mission instances, the murmur grind is repetitive, and their uncontrollable ally spawning code(sometimes they spawn even if you havent died) tends to mess with some of my day to day playstyle. I'm happy for players who havent gone through the grind yet, since they'll have to waste far less hours of their life.

I MIGHT consider doing one here and there in the future, should DE decide to rebalance how murmur grinding works. As in, spawning 66% less thralls in a mission, but have them count 66% more towards the unveiling. I'm not hopeful about that tho, since that kind of change could benefit a lot of repetitive grind, yet has never been used, to my knowledge at least, to alleviate burnout.

Edited by AuroraSonicBoom
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I like the Liches.  They prey upon one of the strongest features of the game, that often loses its shine over time - The Stalker.

Remember early on, how weirdly exciting it was when this guy just showed up to hunt you down?

As you played on and understood him more, that excitement wore out a bit, especially during that period you were trying to collect all of his weapons and the RNG was being uncooperative.

But those Liches, they're like a refined, optional Stalker system.  They boost the lore of the Grineer and the Queens, too.  They carry weapons worth pursuing.  They're procedurally generated.  They include the helmet of the Warframe that killed them in their design.

There are a lot of great ideas hung onto these Liches and they - even if just for now - remind me of the tension of being targeted.

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Yeah, I'm not fond of the entire Requiem Mods thing.  I know they want to keep people popping Requiem Relics, but this is all symptomatic of a bad design.

Overall I don't care for the Parazon at all, from its utility to its model.  Well, especially its model.  It's such a chunky thing.  There's nothing sleek and Warframey about it.

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53 minutes ago, CopperBezel said:

Liches are still the worst content island in the game IMO. Not the most islandy, I mean, just the worst one. Thematically and lorewise, nothing about them makes sense, and the gameplay is an incoherent slog. There's no explanation for why our Tenno want to spawn liches, but mechanically it's completely opt-in, and everything else follows this theme, where we're really shopping but the game is trying to tell us we're being hunted and it's ludonarrative dissonance out the ass.

The changes remove a couple of the problems - you'll no longer be stuck with a Kraken lich with no incentive to deal with them, and you'll no longer be directly punished for playing. That makes them slightly better as a weapon farm. But they are only successful as a weapon farm right now. Everything else about them is garbage.

I also have a pet lore fix now, which means I won't be able to appreciate whatever DE does with liches: Make them random warlords we take out a contract on with Steel Meridian. Make the gameplay the same as it is (as of the coming update) except that requiem progress is per mission instead of using thralls, leveling liches up is opt-in for quicker returns on requiem progress, and the lich you have a contract on will hunt you Stalker-style for your interference until you kill them. (And I do mean kill, with conversions no longer a thing.) Make the reward a lich token and a chance at an ephemera drop. Trade tokens to Cressa for kuva weapons (without valences) at a rate of 1 per Kraken, 3 per Chakkurr, or Palladino for an RNG kuva valence, which (until it's consumed by application to a kuva weapon) is the only tradeable item in the system. Done, I've fixed liches.

This^

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I've been feeling burned out on Warframe overall again after farming Sentient ships to get the new Sentient stuff from Little Duck. Railjack overall has left a somewhat sour taste in my mouth and now that I got the Sentient things I wanted, I can't bring myself to get back into Railjack until they fix and expand on the current issues.

However the new Lich changes interest me overall. I didn't mind them as they still exist now, but these new changes will make the Liches more interesting.

Before I knew about the changes, I was going to convert the current Lich I have going since it has another Chakkurr. With the new Valance Fusion system It will actually be valuable to obtain the weapon to strengthen my current Chakkurr. That new mechanic makes it easier to ultimately get the 60% elemental bonus compared to just hoping a lich will randomly give a 60% bonus weapon.

Not dying from failing a requiem will feel nice. And seeing what weapon a larving will have will give a much easier time at going for the weapons you haven't gotten or the weapons you want to improve.

That new Kuva Bow seems interesting shown from the recent Devstream.

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