A borrowed concept to give Railjack legs

[SignalWarden]

So while considering whether to do the grind of railjack or grind murmurs i was, like everyone else, kicking around what changed could be changed to make interesting and repeatable content based on existing systems in game. 

I like that DE is willing to borrow systems wholesale. With this in mind, I think railjack could benefit from one of Blizzards biggest successes: Mythic +.

For those unfamiliar with WoW, M+ is a variation on dungeons where after running a mythic level dungeon you receive a key. That key grants you access a random dungeon of the next level of difficulty (+1). Completing that grants a random key of the next (+2) and so on. 

Every week your progress resets and you receive a random reward based on how high a key you completed before reset. In addition to increasing difficulty, M+ has seasons. Each season brings a new "affix" to all the M+ dungeons. They are basically like nightmare mode conditions, only more complex. 

So how to make it work in Rail Jack.

Once a player has completed both the normal and Railjack starcharts they unlock railjack nightmare nodes. There will only be 3 or 4 at a time and they stay up for 24 hours. This allows people to gather their preferred squad and gear up appropriately (that will be important in a minute).

From there it would function as M+ does. It would be similar to an endless rail jack sortie with a couple of major differences. The first is that the combination of special conditions are static for several weeks and are INSANELY difficult at certain levels. The second is that you have a way to target reward groups based on performance at the end of each weekly cycle. 

So how will you deal with that level of difficulty? You will need tools to negate them. Intrinsics, warframe and archwing mods that have a host of tools to help deal with the content. The key to this though is that they CANNOT be obtained in railjack missions. You have to get them by farming other content around the game. There should be enough variation that they allow different methods to help your squad so you can choose your path. (One thing is, tell the damn players where to find these things. Dont make me go to a wiki to play the game). Then after a few weeks, conditions rotate out and you start progression towards the new affix. 

This gives endless, progressive railjack and standard missions with consistent reliable rewards, regularly shifting content and encouraged pre determined group play. 

Anyhow, my lunch break is done. Let me know what you guys think. 

[BiancaRoughfin]

Whats the point when players could just do as they already do and open a blackhole that sucks all enemies into them?

Also, i would prefer waiting for Railjack to be fully implemented and balanced before thinking on adding anything that further increases the difficulty.

[(PSN)horridhal]

Honestly the whole idea just sounds like another massive grind and time sink.  Adding it into railjack which, when intrinsics are considered alongside everything else, is already a massive grind and time sink just makes the problems with the mode even more exacerbated.

What needs to be focused on is more passively leveled systems like Focus or Syndicate standing where the gains simply happen over time as you regularly play the game.  The idea that hours upon hours must be spent grinding very specific missions in very specific ways to gain a nominal increase in whatever needs to be done away with moving forward.  

[Teliko_Freedman]

(reads title)

(Imagines)

 

Huh....

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

3 minutes ago, Teliko_Freedman said:

(reads title)

(Imagines)

 

Huh....

your not alone 

[SignalWarden]

1 hour ago, Teliko_Freedman said:

(reads title)

(Imagines)

 

Huh....

Not gonna lie, I wrote it, erased it and decided the clickbait can... Stand.

[SignalWarden]

1 hour ago, (PS4)horridhal said:

Honestly the whole idea just sounds like another massive grind and time sink.  Adding it into railjack which, when intrinsics are considered alongside everything else, is already a massive grind and time sink just makes the problems with the mode even more exacerbated.

What needs to be focused on is more passively leveled systems like Focus or Syndicate standing where the gains simply happen over time as you regularly play the game.  The idea that hours upon hours must be spent grinding very specific missions in very specific ways to gain a nominal increase in whatever needs to be done away with moving forward.  

I only kind of agree. I agree that there should be passive progression, but there also has to be targeted goal otherwise you're running a treadmill. There has to be challenge to progress into and that challenge just cant be damage scaling because that will guarantee the sunsetting of current content very soon. 

[HugintheCrow]

That does nothing to address the fact that Railjack isn't even warframe.

My choice of warframe doesn't matter, my choice of weapons doesn't matter, my operator is completely and utterly pointless (more so than in normal gameplay), my archwing essentially needs to be Amesha or I die instantly, my archwing weapons are nerfed to oblivion, or just straight don't work (melee), infantry enemies are pointless and should be dodged instead of fought, crewships aren't even enemies, they are buttons that die when pressed, abilities need to be found and grinded for, instead of being given to you by obtaining different types of ships, every strategy gets nerfed instantly it's created.

And I could go on, and on, and on... and on.

Railjack is NOT warframe, it's another game entirely, and I have no intention of ever playing it, as it is not only worse, and less enjoyable than warframe, it's also way more buggy and unfinished.

[SignalWarden]

2 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Whats the point when players could just do as they already do and open a blackhole that sucks all enemies into them?

Also, i would prefer waiting for Railjack to be fully implemented and balanced before thinking on adding anything that further increases the difficulty.

Actually this really hits my point. The missions should be objective based and black holes might not be able to mitigate things. As for timing, the system is evergreen so it can migrate to whatever the latest content is without breaking the system at all. 

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

So instead of connecting the island to the rest of the game you want to build a resort on the island. I mean, I get that the island is boring but this is a bandaid fix at best. You are not giving value to Railjack, you are just extending the grind.

[IIDMOII]

Nope. Pass.

Rather not turn pve into a toxic &#*^ measuring contest with ex-wow players. Some of us move to other games to get away from blizzard and their ilk.

Mythic is just a sweat mode for voip warriors. People got so organized and able to communicate so easily, they trivialized end game and it ruined the game wholesale for everyone else for the next 15 years. So no, I don't want blizzards failing cancerous systems following me here.

 

Edited February 19, 2020 by IIDMOII

[SneakyErvin]

The problem is just that with the power we already have the "insane" difficulty would just be 1HK mechanics, tedious puzzles or pointless gate mechanics that dont really provide us a challenge from a gameplay perspective. I mean they already showed us they have a hard time adding challenging content, so they slapped things like auto-kill mechanics on the Liches based on RNG. That would be arbitrary challenge and not real challenge or difficulty.

To pull this all of they'd need to rework the mobs first so we get similar things to what can be found in WoW aswell as most arpgs and that is graphed dangerous attacks on cooldowns. Things we need to actively avoid that we also have a chance to avoid, and not just random 9mm nuke bullets where a stray shot sends us across the bifrost for a dinner appointment with Odin.

[(NSW)Sk0rp1on]

I was expecting this post to about LITERAL legs for your’ railjack, like a giant Metal Gear. 
 

now that I’d be into!

[Aesthier]

5 hours ago, IIDMOII said:

Nope. Pass.

Rather not turn pve into a toxic &#*^ measuring contest with ex-wow players. Some of us move to other games to get away from blizzard and their ilk.

Mythic is just a sweat mode for voip warriors. People got so organized and able to communicate so easily, they trivialized end game and it ruined the game wholesale for everyone else for the next 15 years. So no, I don't want blizzards failing cancerous systems following me here.

 

^ This I completely identify with.

 

[SignalWarden]

15 hours ago, IIDMOII said:

Nope. Pass.

Rather not turn pve into a toxic &#*^ measuring contest with ex-wow players. Some of us move to other games to get away from blizzard and their ilk.

Mythic is just a sweat mode for voip warriors. People got so organized and able to communicate so easily, they trivialized end game and it ruined the game wholesale for everyone else for the next 15 years. So no, I don't want blizzards failing cancerous systems following me here.

 

Well I get that, but thats the raid crowd. M+ didn't exist until Legion. 

That being said do you think that any kind of targeted challenge would hurt the game? 

I guess I just see it as a more calculated kind of arbitration. 

[SignalWarden]

15 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

The problem is just that with the power we already have the "insane" difficulty would just be 1HK mechanics, tedious puzzles or pointless gate mechanics that dont really provide us a challenge from a gameplay perspective. I mean they already showed us they have a hard time adding challenging content, so they slapped things like auto-kill mechanics on the Liches based on RNG. That would be arbitrary challenge and not real challenge or difficulty.

To pull this all of they'd need to rework the mobs first so we get similar things to what can be found in WoW aswell as most arpgs and that is graphed dangerous attacks on cooldowns. Things we need to actively avoid that we also have a chance to avoid, and not just random 9mm nuke bullets where a stray shot sends us across the bifrost for a dinner appointment with Odin.

I don't think using mmo mob mechanics would work in a shooter like this. I was thinking that targeted mitigation would be stronger. There needs to be repeatable content and systems that pull you back into older areas. But as you pointed out, 1hk and scaling damage won't work long term. 

I just think there needs to more reasons to coordinate. More things like eidelon hunts but that scale with your success and keeps introducing new challenge. 

[Irhyo]

17 hours ago, SignalWarden said:

Actually this really hits my point. The missions should be objective based and black holes might not be able to mitigate things. As for timing, the system is evergreen so it can migrate to whatever the latest content is without breaking the system at all. 

This will just mean you park your RJ at the edge of space and rush in with AW, since the objectives would be the same as what we have now knowing DE.

As for the original idea, that just sounds like Void Hole+ Munitions Vortex spam to me. Literally sit in place and have 3 people mindlessly shooting in one direction, 4 if the engineer wants to go out and shoot with their archgun.

[SignalWarden]

17 hours ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

So instead of connecting the island to the rest of the game you want to build a resort on the island. I mean, I get that the island is boring but this is a bandaid fix at best. You are not giving value to Railjack, you are just extending the grind.

may I ask what gameplay you'd see here that you would not consider to be grind? Also, what kind of connection do you think would be more meaningful?

[SignalWarden]

3 minutes ago, Irhyo said:

As for the original idea, that just sounds like Void Hole+ Munitions Vortex spam to me. Literally sit in place and have 3 people mindlessly shooting in one direction, 4 if the engineer wants to go out and shoot with their archgun.

By that line of thought though there is no content outside of rapidly scaled damage and resistance that can be integrated. 

If anything your point is more an argument to remove vh and mv. 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

13 hours ago, (NSW)Sk0rp1on said:

I was expecting this post to about LITERAL legs for your’ railjack, like a giant Metal Gear. 

I'd prefer a pair of ridiculously buff arms instead, that can punch nearby ships to make them explode. then i think I'd give railjack a 10/10 no matter what happens with it.

[Irhyo]

3 hours ago, SignalWarden said:

If anything your point is more an argument to remove vh and mv. 

Do that and people will grab their pitchforks. Especially those who bought those for 400-500p. They can't touch those 2 yet without causing everyone to lose their minds.

 

3 hours ago, SignalWarden said:

By that line of thought though there is no content outside of rapidly scaled damage and resistance that can be integrated. 

So...just like the rest of the game. I'm not expecting anything else. Actually no, we don't have space nullifiers and energy leech eximus units yet.

I want to be proven wrong by what they do with squad link and the upcoming operation, because that looked interesting.

Edited February 20, 2020 by Irhyo

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

4 hours ago, SignalWarden said:

may I ask what gameplay you'd see here that you would not consider to be grind? Also, what kind of connection do you think would be more meaningful?

I have mentioned this in other threads but Railjack needs to be a gateway to more content. I would like to see Void Portals, where players enter into a Portal and get a series of random objectives.

For example, when players go through the portal they have to secure the space on the other side by defeating crew ships and fighters. Then they would have to secure the command center of a space station of frigate, and use that to access the available missions on the planet/moon. The mission area would be like a small open world with random objectives, so player could do them together or break into smaller teams. Objectives could be anything from defection to eidolon hunts. The only catch being that you have a time limit until the void portal destabilizes. The more objectives you complete the better your reward when you return through the portal. If you fail to extract you do not get any bonus rewards.

To take this concept further, you could input Void coordinates using Void Relics. Only the type (Lith, Neo, Meso & Axi)and quality (intact, exceptional, flawless, & radiant) matter. There could even be unique events that require exact matches, or DE could rotate these each week and give players a way to find them similar to requiems.

Think of this like a roguelike mission where each experience is different and unlike sorties you do not know what will be required. If you are not prepared then you can always extract and try again, but the objectives would be randomized each time.

As for how to connect this island, you make relays have an anomalous data research station where completing missions on planets rewards players with anomalous data that can be uses to locate Void fissures. In truth, these anomalous missions are simply matchmaking for various planets. So a Jupiter/Saturn anomalous mission matches you in a normal mission with players doing a specific node, and you get rewarded with anomalous data upon mission completion. Once located you can only enter the Void portal a limited number of times or it expires after X hours, whichever occurs first, before another needs to be located. This keeps the community active in matchmaking and gives value to learning several different game modes as any of them can be included.

Edited February 20, 2020 by (PS4)Hiero_Glyph