Revenant Rework, and opinions on it.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, superiouz said:

Maybe he is a "vampire theme" frame (codename:vlad) Before he became "revenant"?

But..... nevermind. 

If DE wanted to make a vampire frame then they shouldn’t have made the entire frames backstory revolve around something that couldn’t be further away from being a vampire.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

22 minutes ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

MY goal was to keep the gameplay loop similiar...  Besides, how is mesmer skin vampire related? The name? Sure.

Vampires hypnotize or “mesmerize” their victims. Mesmer skin putting enemies to sleep is a representation of that. They tried to turn it into a tank ability.

The goal should be actually making Revenant Eidolon themed and an overall better Warframe. Not stacking on top of bad abilities.

[Vox_Preliator]

14 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

The goal should be actually making Revenant Eidolon themed and an overall better Warframe. Not stacking on top of bad abilities.

By... making him a worse Warframe by ruining his current perfectly fine identity and exceptionally powerful abilities?

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

4 minutes ago, Vox_Preliator said:

By... making him a worse Warframe by ruining his current perfectly fine identity and exceptionally powerful abilities?

No, make him better by replacing his unacceptable, garbage abilities that have no practical function in a game like Warframe. Also, Eidolons aren’t vampires, so saying his theme makes sense is asinine.

Edited February 22, 2020 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

I feel like I’m just being followed around by the same person who just laugh reacts my Revenant comments regardless of what I actually say in them.

[(PSN)grayscale358]

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

No, make him better by replacing his unacceptable, garbage abilities that have no practical function in a game like Warframe. 

...So the mind control effects of Nyx are useless? And the Immortality of Mesmer skin is useless? And the ability to steal 50% of any enemies health is useless? Or if you can maneuver Reave properly, kill  anything in two ability casts is useless?

 

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I feel like I’m just being followed around by the same person who just laugh reacts my Revenant comments regardless of what I actually say in them.

And probably. A lot of what you say does come off as rather trollish, so I can't blame them.

[superiouz]

2 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

If DE wanted to make a vampire frame then they shouldn’t have made the entire frames backstory revolve around something that couldn’t be further away from being a vampire

How about thinking this way? 

When he is a warden. A prime frame. He is a vampire theme frame? Then he fused with eidolon power and became revenant (his abilities mix) and when we get his prime he is not revenant. I mean, his power is not revenant. But warden. A vampire. U know vasca is a vampire too. And they are in PoE.

But this is me thinking. Trying to make revenant lore and his abilities match. Not DE. Lol

[superiouz]

But if his prime is just upgraded "revenant" Then DE is fcking his lore up. Since orokin technology are gone now. 

Because for me "warden" Prime = before revenant.  And Imo whatever his abilities now. De should make new abilities + vampire abilities theme and frame  when his prime come out. Because of his lore.

Edited February 22, 2020 by superiouz

[TARINunit9]

18 hours ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

Enthrall, is going. Mind control effects aren't very powerful, and it doesn't match his Eidolon styling. The proposed option for Revenants 1 is a hallowed ground like ability, albeit with a much smaller range and an appearance similar to the 'blood' that leaks from Eidolon Synovias. Enemies passing through this zone will take small amounts of magnetic damage, with a 50% chance to proc. Additionally, enemies who pass through this area will be 'marked'. Marked enemies will be identified by the current Enthrall sigil above their head, and will be impacted by Reave in the same way as Thralls are currently.

I say we hold off on doing anything to mind control powers until after the upcoming enemy armor/damage change. That alone is going to be a big buff to Nyx and Revenant, once enemies have the means to actually damage each other

Plus it means he gets to keep his Bram Stoker stylings, which I find a thousand times more interesting than the "I want to play as a boss monster" idea you and Gears have. I get why that's a tempting prospect... but the last game I played as that let you do that was MegaMan X7, and in MMX7 all the enemies you can take control of are slow and boring, just like Eidolons. I don't think a true Eidolon frame would be not boring. Revenant might be a vampire in a world where people keep asking to play as a Sentient (like one of the guys below me), but at least he's a functional vampire (contrary to what Gears says) who goes to the cool laser raves

18 hours ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

Mesmer skin, should stay as it is, aside from one small change: Mesmer skin will no longer be recastable, but, you will gain 90% damage reduction to the damage types you were struck by during Mesmer skin. The damage reduction will be capped at 90%, and will last a total of 10 seconds. This is ample time to recast mesmer skin, and possibly reave a group of enemies.

This is just me being picky, but your sentence reads like "I'm going to keep Mesmer Skin the same, by not keeping it the same at all and changing it completely"

Edited February 22, 2020 by TARINunit9

[Redfeather75]

My biggest issue is his 4th ability looks rushed. It visually looks blah. Might as well do a T-pose and spin in place.

[cookieknife]

If he gets reworked, can we PLEASE atleast have one minion that doesn't die from ally gun fire? Imagine if His first minion turns others, and every time they die, they build up his first minion's explosion damage. Press and hold to trigger would be great. I'd also like if they gave him a new ult, honestly his ult is not well designed at all, yes it does great damage but it blinds the screen and isn't very fun to use.

[cookieknife]

28 minutes ago, Redfeather75 said:

My biggest issue is his 4th ability looks rushed. It visually looks blah. Might as well do a T-pose and spin in place.

If they made him morph like the sentient enemies do that'd be cool.

[JackHargreav]

Just let him cast his 2 while moving and there you go. He's perfect.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

6 hours ago, superiouz said:

How about thinking this way? 

When he is a warden. A prime frame. He is a vampire theme frame? Then he fused with eidolon power and became revenant (his abilities mix) and when we get his prime he is not revenant. I mean, his power is not revenant. But warden. A vampire. U know vasca is a vampire too. And they are in PoE.

But this is me thinking. Trying to make revenant lore and his abilities match. Not DE. Lol

That’s dumb. What’s the point of him taking an Eidolon bubble bath for 1000 years if he gets nothing out of it. Why tease the player with an “Eidolon frame” when it’s not that in the slightest? It’s like making a “Grineer frame” that throws out Nullifier bubbles and ratels. It’s false advertising and BS.

And when I read “Warden” I think armored knight tasked to protect, or leader of a prison guard, not blood sucking creature of the night.

[Lion]

Honestly I think revenant is pretty good as he is, though I'd like to see a better passive out of it.

My only complain with him is that DE hasn't accepted any of his good tennogen helmets yet 😢

[(PSN)grayscale358]

47 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Or, you could just stand a little further away from where you intend to shoot your weapon and completely negate the fear of  killing yourself. Your issue of self damage is an issue of you needing to git gud.

Or, the Kuva Bramma shots can be shot by some enemies. This results in a big ol explosion right in your faces cause one lancer got lucky.

47 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I’ve faced level 200 enemies before with Gauss. They provided very little threat and that was without max Redline giving me 100% DR. Not to mention that you’ll rarely ever come across level 200 enemies, so saying you need an ability to face them is dumb.

It's not an ability for them. It's an ability that removes 50% of any enemies health. Nox bothering you? Well then, Enthrall, and Reave. ANY ENEMY can be impacted by this. By combining his 1, 2 and 3, this can happen to ALL single part bosses in the game. Kela, Tyl, Sergeant, Vor, Lech Krill (After invincibility stage), Ambulas, Salad, Mouldy Salad, Phorid. While it will not half health most of them (It takes 50% of Seargeant, Ambulas, Salads and Phorid), it will, after two passes, move directly on to the next stage. Not to mention if you can circle tight enough it's one ability to skip an entire boss phase, all the way up to Sortie level.

47 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

99% sure that Reaving liches is an oversight. And a Kuva Lich is a very specific enemy that only spawns if you want it to. So the best way to take out a Lich is to just not create one in the first place.

Or, you're ignoring the fact that he's really good at taking out Lich's. Seriously, whether you create one or not, the point that he can take them out still stands. See bosses above, because I doubt it's an oversight.

 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, (PS4)reidy35 said:

Or, the Kuva Bramma shots can be shot by some enemies. This results in a big ol explosion right in your faces cause one lancer got lucky.

It's not an ability for them. It's an ability that removes 50% of any enemies health. Nox bothering you? Well then, Enthrall, and Reave. ANY ENEMY can be impacted by this. By combining his 1, 2 and 3, this can happen to ALL single part bosses in the game. Kela, Tyl, Sergeant, Vor, Lech Krill (After invincibility stage), Ambulas, Salad, Mouldy Salad, Phorid. While it will not half health most of them (It takes 50% of Seargeant, Ambulas, Salads and Phorid), it will, after two passes, move directly on to the next stage. Not to mention if you can circle tight enough it's one ability to skip an entire boss phase, all the way up to Sortie level.

Or, you're ignoring the fact that he's really good at taking out Lich's. Seriously, whether you create one or not, the point that he can take them out still stands. See bosses above, because I doubt it's an oversight.

 

Can the Brammas arrows be shot out of mid air? I’ve never heard of bow arrows being shot out of mid air before. That feels like a thing more people would bring up when complaining about self damage.

Boss fights are pretty simple and don’t take up enough of the game for a frame to be considered good simply by being able to kill them. Also half those bosses die to bullets pretty quickly.

Or you could just use a good frame with a good weapon. I’ve had zero issues killing liches. Never had to think to myself “the only way the beat this thing is by using Revenant”. Because why would I ever need to use a garbage frame?

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

No not at all, it just means you can just use it up close and personal when you want, which is extremely useful at times.

It was an example and 100% is still better than anything else. Or well no, it isnt 100%, it is actual hard immunity for X amount of charges, with zero build up invloved.

Sure it may be a bug in which case I hope it gets fixed. But then Mesa should also get fixed because she does the same but slightly slower. And it must be the most stupid thing I've heard saying that the best way to take out a lich is to not spawn one. That is as strawgrasping as something can get. Tell me, is the loot good from those non-created liches? 

Actually you did since you commented on him keeping 2 vampire abilties. So you pretty much did throw the first stone or make the kindling.

If you want up close an personal use a shotgun. Different weapon types for different play styles.

Why limit myself to a set amount of charges when something like Nezhas halo has scaling health and can allow me to be shot for more times? It’s not very impressive to say “I took 0% damage all mission, therefore I’m the best tank”. It’s more impressive to be like “I took over 50% damage in the mission and I didn’t die from any of it, therefore I am the best tank”.

I mean you’ve been grasping at straws since day one. Who cares if Revenants defenses can scale to level 300 if the average player is never going to reach those levels, mostly because there’s no practical reason to go that far. 

[superiouz]

2 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

That’s dumb. What’s the point of him taking an Eidolon bubble bath for 1000 years if he gets nothing out of it. Why tease the player with an “Eidolon frame” when it’s not that in the slightest? It’s like making a “Grineer frame” that throws out Nullifier bubbles and ratels. It’s false advertising and BS.

And when I read “Warden” I think armored knight tasked to protect, or leader of a prison guard, not blood sucking creature of the night.

Fair enough. And honestly i mostly agree with u. And that warden and revenant being diff,  just me try not to complaint on DE. Lol. 

Anyway, How u think about this?

18 hours ago, superiouz said:

Pasive : just like eidolon when his shield is up ( or max? ) he is immune to all status effect. 

1 : spawn vomps around him ( maybe like nova ball or maybe nekros shadows) just like eidolon. 

2 : no rework or just harden the shield to immune to all status ( duration) then change pasive to when 1 is up, and then he downed spawned vomp can revive him ( like sacrifice mod in sentinel) just like eidolon when final down. The vomp will rush to him.

3 : have damage meter gauge. Just like gauss if its full he cast reave and. can reave what ever he want. Steal health. Just like vomp when take damage. 

4. No rework. / or make laser rain spawn like garry or / make knockback pulse around him. Just like eidolon. 

 

That what im thinking when eidolon turn into warframe

But he dont really need rework he just need abilities to match eidolon theme, but when im thinking about his abilities that not match with eidolon theme, maybe its the true ability of him self before he turn into "revenant". 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2020 by superiouz

[Fallen77]

Nonononononono and no.

Especially mesmer skin, wtf is wrong with you ? The sole fact that it is recastable is what made revenant trully usefull.

[JackHargreav]

45 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Can the Brammas arrows be shot out of mid air? I’ve never heard of bow arrows being shot out of mid air before. That feels like a thing more people would bring up when complaining about self damage.

Not by lancers but Vallis Overtakers can indeed shoot your arrow.

Edited February 22, 2020 by JackHargreav

[Ragnafiro]

13 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Vampires hypnotize or “mesmerize” their victims. Mesmer skin putting enemies to sleep is a representation of that. They tried to turn it into a tank ability.

The goal should be actually making Revenant Eidolon themed and an overall better Warframe. Not stacking on top of bad abilities.

I'm no expert on the thematic side of Warframe design, but from a mechanical gameplay perspective, calling his abilities bad just because he don't nuke the map like most of the available content or his kit doesn't fit his theme is just nothing short of ignorance.

He won't get reworked in a similar reason as Chroma: their kit are perfectly specialized in the most niche content that they excels at that no other frame beat them first place and their abilities don't line with their theme because " As long as it works, why should I remove the parts that worth picking them for?"

I'm open to ideas to make their kit to fit their theme WHILE keeping that power budget intact as we don't need another generic jack of all mediocrity like Nyx or Ember (In what content do they excels best aside from being feelsgoodman to casuls again?)

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 minute ago, Ragnafiro said:

I'm no expert on the thematic side of Warframe design, but from a mechanical gameplay perspective, calling his abilities bad just because he don't nuke the map like most of the available content or his kit doesn't fit his theme is just nothing short of ignorance.

He won't get reworked in a similar reason as Chroma: their kit are perfectly specialized in the most niche content that they excels at that no other frame beat them first place and their abilities don't line with their theme because " As long as it works, why should I remove the parts that worth picking them for?"

I'm open to ideas to make their kit to fit their theme WHILE keeping that power budget intact as we don't need another generic jack of all mediocrity like Nyx or Ember (In what content do they excels best aside from being feelsgoodman to casuls again?)

They’re bad even outside of the “nuke everything” mindset. He provides zero practical benefits to team mates, his abilities don’t flow with each other despite the fact that their supposed to be used together. There’s multiple contradicts and anti-synergies within his kit. He’s a failure of design.

Revenant doesn’t even fill a practical niche. There’s no reason to pick him over other frames. Being able to survive a level 300 lancer isn’t useful if you never do endurance runs to that level. And why would you? You get no special rewards for it?

Nyx is also terrible and needs a rework, Embers a good damage dealer now that just needs the LoS of her 3 fixed and her 2’s meter to be changed to not deal it’s weird punishment mechanics.

 

[Ragnafiro]

Just now, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

They’re bad even outside of the “nuke everything” mindset. He provides zero practical benefits to team mates, his abilities don’t flow with each other despite the fact that their supposed to be used together. There’s multiple contradicts and anti-synergies within his kit. He’s a failure of design.

Revenant doesn’t even fill a practical niche. There’s no reason to pick him over other frames. Being able to survive a level 300 lancer isn’t useful if you never do endurance runs to that level. And why would you? You get no special rewards for it?

Nyx is also terrible and needs a rework, Embers a good damage dealer now that just needs the LoS of her 3 fixed and her 2’s meter to be changed to not deal it’s weird punishment mechanics.

 

But he have a niche: his 2 made it that he can easily survive enemies from the index into one hour solo for that autograph and because  of his 1 and 3 synergy at 250% strength, regardless if they're level 30 or 300, enthralled enemies get one-shotted by his 3, this part isn't needed in a high bodies-drop enviroment, but in an environment like the Index and easily 1v1 a lich, then he excels as a small skirmish/duelist frame that don't care for infinite scaling. "Zero benefit to teammates" 'cause he's akin to a soloframe who like endurance run like Ash. "His abilities don't flow together" yeah I think I explained the mechanical part of his kit in my earlier post. "Failure of a design" I don't dabble into opinion as I stated the facts what he do well.

Your mentality of disrespecting endurance runners such as myself is a little narrow minded IMO. For example, Requiem Void Fissure Survival or Disruption allows you that if you can stay longer, the resource booster racks up to significant degrees while never have lost of time as Survival will always be at 5 minutes interval and Disruption can be much faster but less Kuva (that game mode reward faster relic open than Kuva if you go something like an Inaros with a status shotgun and a CO melee to clean a demolyst in 3 seconds average). My point is that if I can play solo to test my arsenal to not play with people like you in public queue then I think that's a fair tradeoff.

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

If you want up close an personal use a shotgun. Different weapon types for different play styles.

Why limit myself to a set amount of charges when something like Nezhas halo has scaling health and can allow me to be shot for more times? It’s not very impressive to say “I took 0% damage all mission, therefore I’m the best tank”. It’s more impressive to be like “I took over 50% damage in the mission and I didn’t die from any of it, therefore I am the best tank”.

I mean you’ve been grasping at straws since day one. Who cares if Revenants defenses can scale to level 300 if the average player is never going to reach those levels, mostly because there’s no practical reason to go that far. 

No thanks, I already solve my up close and personal thing with melee, or the bramma when I want to have fun. 

Because when you are Nezha you can get 1-shot at certain levels, same with Rhino. And what does the percentage have to do with anything? Nezha soaking up a 10k hit is the same as Rev soaking up a 10k hit, those 10k were placed on a frame that could take it instead of a fragile one that would get 1-shot. The difference is just that Rev completely negates it while Nezha lets 10% slip through. Halo is unreliable in the end, because the further down its health goes, the more likely you are to get 1-shot the moment a hit will remove it since the invulnerability wont kick in unless you survive the hit that makes halo reach zero. Plus it cannot be recast.

No that was an example of how it works. It is enough to get a bit into arbis to see it outperform all other defensive skills because it makes you 100% safe from everything aslong as you keep track of the stacks, which isnt that hard. There are no risks for bad luck incidents where an ancient may pull you in to finish you or you get CCed in a bad spot. I'd say the second safest would be Hildryn due to her shield gate and the multitude of option to keep her shields in OS 24/7 or Inaros because he has massive ehp that can easily be topped off at all times. Rhino and Nezha are ok, but their mechanics either require too much build up to effectively recast or they cant be recast until they run out, which gets you closer and closer to 1HK terittory the more your defenses diminish. Although a Nezha built heavily around defense and with the proper mods will always sit on a massive armor value and a fully stacked adaptation.