Oh boy. I cant wait for the arcane changes.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

It's a great idea really. I know I'm not the only one who spent a lot of time getting max rank arcanes and I just CANT WAIT for my arcanes to be nerfed! Being able to grind to fix a problem DE arbitrarily created is EXACTLY how I want to spend my time.

Getting 10 more arcane guardians to make my arcane guardian rank 3 almost as good as it is now? SIGN ME UP. Nerfing arcane energize into the ground but letting us spam 100's of energy pizzas? B A L A N C E D. 

Dont worry guys. DE specifically said Scarlett Spear vendor will have arcanes or something and if you think that grind will be excessive you're paranoid. 

 

After all, the kuva lich grind, murmur grind, and railjack grinds have all been perfectly reasonable since day one 🙂

*edit* it looks like they changed their mind about guardian. 15% chance for 900 armor for 20 seconds. The 5% reduction in chance to proc is unfortunate but at least getting more arcanes will get more armor now. And they've said energize will work with toggle abilities. So I dont know how that's getting reworked specifically but it sounds like it at least wont be getting dumpstered*

Edited March 4, 2020 by (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA

[Kuez]

They have explicitly said that rank 5 arcanes are going to be about 50% better than the current rank 3 one. 

EDIT: ...and then I have read the workshop. Nevermind what I said above.

EDIT 2: ...and then:

Spoiler

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Arcane Guardian Details + Reminders

Arcane Guardian

On Rank 5: On Damaged:

15% chance for +900 Armor for 20s

• Arcane Energize will still give energy to toggled Warframe abilities - this has been asked a lot. 
• Arcanes will require 21 Arcanes to reach the new Max Rank of 5. Scarlet Spear will feature a buy-what-you-want shop for Arcanes based on the currency earned in the event. It will launch in March shortly after the Mainline. 

...this came, so it's not this bad after all.

On 2020-02-29 at 10:16 AM, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

*edit* it looks like they changed their mind about guardian. 15% chance for 900 armor for 20 seconds. The 5% reduction in chance to proc is unfortunate but at least getting more arcanes will get more armor now. And they've said energize will work with toggle abilities. So I dont know how that's getting reworked specifically but it sounds like it at least wont be getting dumpstered*

Ikr? 

Edited March 4, 2020 by Kuez

[JackHargreav]

I doubt you have to level up the arcanes that you already maxed out.

[kapn655321]

The attempt to make Arcane Pulse better, but limit an arcane slot...
...will only result in me having to remove arcane pulse from my Health Orb centric trin build.
=/  Ditching Arcane Guardian still isn't an option, whether it gets worse or better.

Frankly, I'm betting the, "3 arcanes everyone uses," will STILL be the 3 arcanes everyone uses.
No amount of buffing Arcane Pulse makes that more viable than MOST things..
and though I may be the only person using that currently, I won't be post change, else lose survivability while I churn up the orbs for health conversion.

Anyone else get the feeling, we lean on those Arcanes, because there's no other way to accomplish what we want on a build?
What I mean is... do we have enough mod slots to have robust and diverse builds, or are we just kinda pigeon holed into what we overuse by necessity?

[(PSN)TONI__RIBEIRO]

22 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Getting 10 more arcane guardians to make my arcane guardian rank 3 almost as good as it is now

Correction you'll need a total of 21 to get it to rank 5 so that's 11 more, great way to crap all over our grind that we thought was over.

[WhiteMarker]

The amount of salt in these threads is awesome.

Overused stuff gets changed? Are you guys really surprised that happened?
Everyone angry about it is just someone without any experience. Maybe, instead of just doing what some Youtuber told you, you should start to think for yourself. Then you won't be surprised anymore.

[schilds]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)TONI__RIBEIRO said:

Correction you'll need a total of 21 to get it to rank 5 so that's 11 more, great way to crap all over our grind that we thought was over.

Yeah, but R5 will do more than the current R3.

 

36 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

I just CANT WAIT for my arcanes to be nerfed! Being able to grind to fix a problem DE arbitrarily created

For most Arcanes, they will be the same as they are now at R3. Ranking them to R5 will increase their effect by about 1.5x.

[(NSW)Sniperfox47]

18 minutes ago, Kuez said:

They have explicitly said that rank 5 arcanes are going to be about 50% better than the current rank 3 one. 

 

9 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

I doubt you have to level up the arcanes that you already maxed out.

They posted a bunch of exact numbers. A bunch of arcanes are getting nerfed, including some that have absolutely no business being nerfed because they weren't even good in the first place.

 

And yes you will, because your rank 3 arcane will stay rank 3 as they said in the workshop and with many of the arcanes getting nerfed you'll have to grind more to get them back up to where they were. And even then some of them will be nerfed pretty spectacularly.

 

For example arcane guardian level 5 is going to be 15% for 600 armor vs the current level 3 being 20% for 600 armor.

It can be infered from this that your current level 3 will drop to a 9% chance for 360 armor, a pretty huge Nerf on an arcane that was just a "well if you have nothing better might as well slap this on".

[(NSW)Sniperfox47]

8 minutes ago, schilds said:

Yeah, but R5 will do more than the current R3.

 

For most Arcanes, they will be the same as they are now at R3. Ranking them to R5 will increase their effect by about 1.5x.

You didn't read the workshop then. A bunch of arcanes are getting nerfed pretty spectacularly. 

A lot of the terrible ones are getting huge buffs. Some of the really good ones are getting inexplicable buffs. And a couple of tbe good ones are getting slight nerfs. That's all good.

What's less good are some of the already not great ones getting nerfed (i.e. arcane guardian) and some of the great ones getting nerfed into the ground to the point they'll never be used (i.e. arcane aegis)

[JackHargreav]

4 minutes ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

 

They posted a bunch of exact numbers. A bunch of arcanes are getting nerfed, including some that have absolutely no business being nerfed because they weren't even good in the first place.

 

And yes you will, because your rank 3 arcane will stay rank 3 as they said in the workshop and with many of the arcanes getting nerfed you'll have to grind more to get them back up to where they were. And even then some of them will be nerfed pretty spectacularly.

 

For example arcane guardian level 5 is going to be 15% for 600 armor vs the current level 3 being 20% for 600 armor.

It can be infered from this that your current level 3 will drop to a 9% chance for 360 armor, a pretty huge Nerf on an arcane that was just a "well if you have nothing better might as well slap this on".

That (could) suck.

But I heared the new event will give us arcanes and since I use uncommon arcanes only they should be easy to get.

[Kuez]

45 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Getting 10 more arcane guardians to make my arcane guardian rank 3 almost as good as it is now?

3 minutes ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

They posted a bunch of exact numbers.

Actually I was stupid and didn't bother looking at the workshop. My bad.

Now seeing both Guardian and Energize (which I hope are mistakes) I fully agree with you. 

 

[(NSW)Sniperfox47]

Just now, Kuez said:

Actually I was stupid and didn't bother looking at the workshop. My bad.

Now seeing both Guardian and Energize (which I hope are mistakes) I fully agree with you. 

 

Aegis too. Note it now gives regen instead of a restored amount, making it literally useless.

[schilds]

Just now, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

You didn't read the workshop then. A bunch of arcanes are getting nerfed pretty spectacularly. 

Two arcanes that people used are definitely nerfed. One is uncertain (Energize) because the new description is vague. A number of other arcanes that people use have been buffed.

[DeMonkey]

13 minutes ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

an arcane that was just a "well if you have nothing better might as well slap this on".

Disagree. Every 300 armour is effectively another 100% health, on some frames that's great.

Mesa has what, ~1,000 health (I know it's lower but math) and 95% DR. Before counting her normal armour that's an ehp of 20,000. If you included a proc'd Arcane Guardian it's 60,000 health, or 2 Guardian's for 100,000.

That's pretty powerful, and definitely doesn't fall under the "if I have nothing better to use" category imo.

Edited February 29, 2020 by DeMonkey

[(NSW)Sniperfox47]

3 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Disagree. Every 300 armour is effectively another 100% health, on some frames that's great.

Mesa has what, ~1,000 health (I know it's lower but math) and 95% DR. Before counting her normal armour that's an ehp of 20,000. If you included a proc'd Arcane Guardian it's 60,000 health, or 2 Guardian's for 100,000.

That's pretty powerful, and definitely doesn't fall under the "if I have nothing better to use" category imo.

On super squishy frames who need every bit of survivability they can get...

 

It's an extra bunch of armor that gets applied after all mods and multipliers... Meaning it's literally only good on frames that already have low armor.

 

And even for those frames there are typically better options for arcanes to toss on them.

[schilds]

17 minutes ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

Aegis too. Note it now gives regen instead of a restored amount, making it literally useless.

Current Aegis gives +60 shields/second. New Aegis will be 30% of recharge rate. The base shield recharge rate on a frame with maxed Redirection is about 70 shields/second. So Aegis will get about +20 shields/second when recharging. Hildryn with maxed Redirection will get around 58 shields/second.

However, Aegis has another benefit which is to trigger shield recharge (normally only happens when you stopped getting hit). It's unclear whether the new Aegis will do this.

Edited February 29, 2020 by schilds

[DeMonkey]

5 minutes ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

Meaning it's literally only good on frames that already have low armor.

Not really. It provides the same benefit no matter the frame. 300 armour, 100% health. Already got 3,000 armour? Another 300 is still 100% more health. Arcane Guardian is always 200% health. There are frames like Inaros who can make great use of that despite having armour already.

5 minutes ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

And even for those frames there are typically better options for arcanes to toss on them.

Depends on what you're going for. I'm not saying it's the best, just that it's hardly a "if I have nothing better" arcane.

Edited February 29, 2020 by DeMonkey

[taiiat]

changes? you mean nerfs. "not enough variety is being used, so we'll just nerf everything".
:)

2 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Not really. It provides the same benefit no matter the frame.

opportunity cost and relative Bonuses. the usual thing, the thing that drives everything.

Edited February 29, 2020 by taiiat

[(NSW)Sniperfox47]

Just now, DeMonkey said:

Not really. It provides the same benefit no matter the frame. 300 armour, 100% health. Already got 3,000 armour? Another 300 is still 100% more health. There are frames like Inaros who can make great use of that despite having armour already.

Depends on what you're going for. I'm not saying it's the best, just that it's hardly a "if I have nothing better" arcane.

Anything other than the best is "if you have nothing better"...

 

Because if you have the best you have something better...

[DeMonkey]

3 minutes ago, taiiat said:

opportunity cost and relative Bonuses. the usual thing, the thing that drives everything.

Unfortunately.

2 minutes ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

Anything other than the best is "if you have nothing better"...

 

Because if you have the best you have something better...

Gotcha. Can't live without the meta. Variety is a sin.

[schilds]

In any case. Guardian is a straight up nerf. If Aegis no longer triggers shield recharge, that's a straight up nerf, otherwise it's the same on Hildryn and nerfed on other frames. Arguably the best point of Aegis was to trigger shield recharge, so if it still does that, I'd say the nerf is actually pretty minor. Energize looks like it's probably a nerf, but it's too vague to say for sure. Everything else was buffed, including a lot of useful things people do use.

Some builds that depended on a specific effect being stacked have been nerfed, others you'll shift to using two different arcanes to similar or better effect. Builds that didn't stack arcanes have been buffed (unless they used one of the three mentioned).

Overall it's a mixture of nerfs and buffs, and an exaggeration to just claim it's all nerfed.

Edited February 29, 2020 by schilds

[(NSW)Evilpricetag]

As long as kubro finishes still trigger arcane trickery, everyone is eligible to be stealthy now.

[taiiat]

21 minutes ago, schilds said:

and an exaggeration to just claim it's all nerfed.

some ancillary Arcanes that weren't popular and won't be popular still ever by nature of what they do, got number increases. most of them got nerfed because of adding Cooldowns or Durations or other ways of making them work in a more restricted manner that means they just don't do their job consistently. or just being less reliable in Chances in the first place.

there's a specific few exceptions like oemgalul buffing(probably, unless the type of Bonus changes) Avenger, Strike finally has a Duration long enough that it can be not annoying to use, omegalul buffing Velocity.
but those are specific exceptions, when most of them are being directly or indirectly nerfed. and ofcourse in classic Warframe fashion, most of the things being nerfed being not especially popular before and certainly won't be now.

the same ol' same ol' - burn down the castle to fix a broken floor.

24 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Gotcha. Can't live without the meta. Variety is a sin.

(different for the sake of different is also a sin)

Edited February 29, 2020 by taiiat

[schilds]

16 minutes ago, taiiat said:

but those are specific exceptions, when most of them are being directly or indirectly nerfed. and ofcourse in classic Warframe fashion, most of the things being nerfed being not especially popular before and certainly won't be now.

It's the other way around. Most of them were buffed, except for 3 specific exceptions (and 2 of those we're vague on exactly how they will work). There are more than 3 out of the ones that got buffed that actually get used. So yeah, thanks, but I'm sticking by what I said, that to claim everything's been nerfed is an exaggeration.

Edited February 29, 2020 by schilds

[Sharkgoblin]

1 hour ago, kapn655321 said:

The attempt to make Arcane Pulse better, but limit an arcane slot...
...will only result in me having to remove arcane pulse from my Health Orb centric trin build.
=/  Ditching Arcane Guardian still isn't an option, whether it gets worse or better.

Frankly, I'm betting the, "3 arcanes everyone uses," will STILL be the 3 arcanes everyone uses.
No amount of buffing Arcane Pulse makes that more viable than MOST things..
and though I may be the only person using that currently, I won't be post change, else lose survivability while I churn up the orbs for health conversion.

Anyone else get the feeling, we lean on those Arcanes, because there's no other way to accomplish what we want on a build?
What I mean is... do we have enough mod slots to have robust and diverse builds, or are we just kinda pigeon holed into what we overuse by necessity?

Im gonna run triple energize get dabbed on de