Oh boy. I cant wait for the arcane changes.

[Bacl]

5 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

is there a source for this one way or the other?

Well the fact they simply talking about the Arcanes now going all the way up to rank 5 but nothing about compensation ( rank will be turning into rank 5 or anything else) is pretty telling since they talked about a refund for the Railjack ressources after the change.

 

Nothing on Arcanes so i assume nothing planed for the current rank 3

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

3 hours ago, TENNO_NOT_FOUND said:

I sure do look forward to grinding a whole set of arcanes again that aren't the arcanes that resist status, because the ones that resist status were underused and DE wants people to use the other arcanes that resist status.

This has truly opened my eyes to the marvels of 100% magnetic proc resistance as opposed to regenning my shield.

I'll just leave this here 

On 2020-03-01 at 11:01 AM, (PS4)TONI__RIBEIRO said:

The problem ,double stacking, the solution, don't let them double stack right? Wrong.

Let's make it so they don't double stack and buff them so players don't lose as much? Wrong.

All the above and make them take 21 arcanes for max rank, and lie about the reasons we actually did it?

Actual footage from DE 👇

 

 

[_Urakaze_]

2020/3/2 AM2点22分 , 8faiNt 说:

I dont think they even explained what the cooldown is on the arcanes or duration on some arcanes not sure how you know what are those. They only released the new stats and howlong they last. we dont even know if energize going to work line zenurik or some S#&$

 

And 15% vs 20% isent that much difference when it comes to procs

ah yes chance to get more hits on a squishy frame to trigger it rather than with less hit isnt too much at all.

 

2020/3/2 AM2点14分 , 8faiNt 说:

well bo hoo It also has a cooldown and a %15 chance to trigger, rather than %20 at r3 without any cooldown.

Obvious nerf is obvious.

they said some arcane numbers are incorrect. Hopefully guardian is one of them. Also Hopefully the grind for scarlet spear is mild

[Jarriaga]

On 2020-03-01 at 2:05 PM, Bacl said:

Yes but rank 3 is not the max level anymore and i ivested the efforts for a maxed product.

Would you agree, because of a random change in a patch, to max again your Primed mods because they got retrograded down to level 5 and the endo and credit cap will most likely go up again?

Its pretty much the same thing here....

 

So it's just mental masturbation for you? You don't care about your current R3's keeping the same stats at R3, but actually looking at the R5 number and saying "that's maxed out"? 

Edited March 3, 2020 by Jarriaga

[Jarriaga]

On 2020-03-01 at 2:07 PM, 8faiNt said:

how do you buff my %20 chance to trigger r3 guardian to %15 chance to trigger r5 guardian? How is it higher too? They are obviously going to lower the stats on r3 and force everyone to get r5...

 

they are not going to stay the same

 

I myself hope that's a typo even though I'm OK with the nerfs, and I have 2 R3 Guardians. 

[KASpade]

I mean, in Operation: Scarlet Spear "all arcanes will be available on the reward manifest" and they talked about potentially increasing their drop rates, as the focus is not to increase grinding.

[Jarriaga]

9 minutes ago, KASpade said:

I mean, in Operation: Scarlet Spear "all arcanes will be available on the reward manifest" and they talked about potentially increasing their drop rates, as the focus is not to increase grinding.

And if you're like me and were double-staking, depending on how they settle for final requirements, at worst you'll only need 1 more Arcane considering distilling will be added so you can fuse your 2 R3's. 

[Bacl]

10 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

So it's just mental masturbation for you? You don't care about your current R3's keeping the same stats at R3, but actually looking at the R5 number and saying "that's maxed out"? 

HOw can the rank 3 keep the same stats when the new rank 5 is weaker than what we have now? Just Aegis and Guardian are shadows of themselves if the numbers are correct.

 

Also i dont like my mods, Arcanes, item levels or even my account ranking to be brought back or down for some arbitrary reason because they decided to push back the max level higher than it currently is and i have to regrind them to get more or less on the same level i was before.

 

Lets imagine you get into the game one day and you have this:

Your Primed Pressure Point rank 10 is +165% melee damage. 

You invested 1mil credits and 50k endo (yes those results are the fruit of my mental masturbation so completely inaccurate but not unrealistic) 

 

The next day. Random DE patch and change:

 

Your Primed Pressure point is now rank 5 and you have to upgrade it once again but this time it only gives + 150% damage and you need to invest all the necessary 40K endo plus the 750k credits to rank 10 again.

 

Yes the previous scenario looks very stupid but on the other hand its exactly what we are getting with the Arcane up ranking.

 

If you are ok with this then i guess they can pass you anything and you will accept it

 

 

[Kaotyke]

3 hours ago, lukinu_u said:

dit : I just overlooked the post before answering, but your final suggestion is actually what will happen, unless rank 5 arcanes are about 1.5x the power of one current rank 3 arcane rather than 2x.

Yeah, its the same thing happening right now. You get the same flat value bonus with diminishing return per rank.

The quantity of Arcanes to rank them up increase, but the value of the bonus they give stays flat.

You can check Guardian itself, every rank gives +150 Armor / +5% / + 5s

The only exceptions are those that swap around, like: give the +2% in R0 and +3% in R1 (5%), then jumps back to +2% in R2 (7%) and finishes with another +3% in R3 (10%).

So, using Guardian as an exemple still, when they say that at R5 it will give +50% of the R3, its because its following the same logic we currently use.

They just might think that 30% chance for 900 Armor might be too much and are tweaking the numbers.

[Jarriaga]

27 minutes ago, Bacl said:

HOw can the rank 3 keep the same stats when the new rank 5 is weaker than what we have now? Just Aegis and Guardian are shadows of themselves if the numbers are correct.

We don't know that. What we do know, is that they said some values are wrong, that they were making them 1.5 their current values at R5, and that some arcanes like Guardian stick out like a sore thumb. 

Wait until the update drops. If there was a typo, your current R3 Arcane stays exactly as it currently is at R3 (Except for those with cooldowns, objective nerf) with room for 2 more ranks. 

27 minutes ago, Bacl said:

Also i dont like my mods, Arcanes, item levels or even my account ranking to be brought back or down for some arbitrary reason because they decided to push back the max level higher than it currently is and i have to regrind them to get more or less on the same level i was before.

So mental masturbation then. Because if the actual value of the buff has not changed, it does not affect you in the slightest with regards to the practical outcome beyond measuring your penis size and saying "that's maxed out". If you were not double-stacking like I currently am with 2 R3 Guardians in some frames and 2 R3 Fury in others, you have no horse in that race as your practical experience remains the same. And even then, they said they are adding arcane distillation so you can fuse the second R3. 

27 minutes ago, Bacl said:

Your Primed Pressure point is now rank 5 and you have to upgrade it once again but this time it only gives + 150% damage and you need to invest all the necessary 40K endo plus the 750k credits to rank 10 again.

If you're going to go there, then at least be honest with your example. They leaving Primed Pressure Point as its current value of 165% and then adding 2 more ranks so it goes to 195% but not automatically increasing the current value would be a more accurate comparison. And on either case, my current buff value remains exactly as it is. It is actually a buff since I now have more room to grow if I choose to chase those extra ranks. 

Wait for the final stats. Unless they want to intentionally nerf some specific Arcanes in a per case basis, your current R3 will remain with the same buff value, trigger chance, and duration. 

27 minutes ago, Bacl said:

Yes the previous scenario looks very stupid but on the other hand its exactly what we are getting with the Arcane up ranking.

It is a misguided scenario. Inapplicable and unrelated to the situation at hand. 

27 minutes ago, Bacl said:

If you are ok with this then i guess they can pass you anything and you will accept it

Whatever helps you sleep. Why don't you cut to the chase and flat out admit you feel entitled to the equivalent of 10-11 additional arcanes you didn't farm, for free, just because you don't like looking at the R3 value once R5 is added?

Because that is pretty much what you're asking in your OP. 

Edited March 3, 2020 by Jarriaga

[Bacl]

8 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

We don't know that. What we do know, is that they said some values are wrong, that they were making them 1.5 their current values at R5, and that some arcanes like Guardian stick out like a sore thumb. 

Wait until the update drops. If there was a typo, your current R3 Arcane stays exactly as it currently is at R3 (Except for those with cooldowns, objective nerf) with room for 2 more ranks. 

 

If you're going to go there, then at least be honest with your example. They leaving Primed Pressure Point as its current value of 165% and then adding 2 more ranks so it goes to 195% but not automatically increasing the current value would be a more accurate comparison. And on either case, my current buff value remains exactly as it is. It is actually a buff since I now have more room to grow if I choose to chase those extra ranks. 

 

It is a misguided scenario. Inapplicable and unrelated to the situation at hand. 

Whatever helps you sleep. Why don't you cut to the chase and flat out admit you feel entitled to the equivalent of 10-11 additional arcanes you didn't farm, for free, just because you don't like looking at the R3 value once R5 is added?

Because that is pretty much what you're asking in your OP. 

I never lied or been dishonest, i did the grind and indeed i do feel entitled to have a maxed ranked Arcane in the end because i did put in the work before the change and all those who did the same should also feel the same. Your pointing at the obvious here. I will also add that apart from Aegis (that  was utterly redundant when paired) i have doubles or the Arcanes i use so yeah i did the grind.

 

Also my example with pressure is not once again "dishonest", what we are getting on the next update is less than what we started with when we could double stack them, double Guardian no more extra 1200 armor, double energize etc. You have arbitrary cooldowns stapled to them and top of that you also have to invest the same amount of (time, plat, energy, begging?) to once again, be almost where you started off. Awesome deal!

 

All i am asking is a compromise because i am pointing out that what they are currently doing is unfair, specially for those who invested platinum or real money in getting these (not my case). Now if you dont care or want to white knight them even when they are clearly screwing you over well, enjoy i guess?

 

Lol they will refund the resources for the Railjack but the thing that probably needed the greatest investment " NaaaaH it will be fine"

 

 

[(PSN)ChaosTheNerd]

11 hours ago, MPonder said:

The usual excuse to -> "I'm too lazy to learn, let me say I have a life."

To learn what? How to shoot a limb quickly? Just redeemer prime it, how to collect lures is the only time you have to learn something, everything else is dirt easy but not worth the time to wait for it because I dont waste my time all day on warframe.

[Jarriaga]

9 hours ago, Bacl said:

I never lied or been dishonest, i did the grind and indeed i do feel entitled to have a maxed ranked Arcane in the end because i did put in the work before the change and all those who did the same should also feel the same. Your pointing at the obvious here. I will also add that apart from Aegis (that  was utterly redundant when paired) i have doubles or the Arcanes i use so yeah i did the grind.

If you did the grind for just 1 Arcane then this is not applicable to you. If you were double-stacking, then you'll be able to distill the second R3 to fuse them both. At worst, you'll need one more Arcane unless DE decide to go with 5+5, making the point of not being maxed out pointless.

And even though you may feel entitled to it, DE owe you nothing. Not to you, not to any of us. Just who do you think you are? And why you believe some things are sacred and not eligible for nerfs? Function-wise, Arcanes are nothing more than mods with a different icon and a dedicated slot. You can't double-stack mods. They could have just blocked the second arcane slot without stat revisions and be done with it if they wanted to.

9 hours ago, Bacl said:

Also my example with pressure is not once again "dishonest", what we are getting on the next update is less than what we started with when we could double stack them, double Guardian no more extra 1200 armor, double energize etc.

It is dishonest when you make a point in your original OP about you using 2 different Arcanes:

On 2020-03-01 at 1:51 PM, Bacl said:

I personally ever wanted 2 Arcanes; Grace and Aegis and i invested the time grinding and the time on the market chat in order to get them.

So in order to validate why you feel wrong and entitled, you went out of your way to provide an example that does not apply to you in the slightest. Since you were not double-stacking them, you are pretty much expecting to get the equivalent of 10-11 additional copies of each so they can be R5 again. That is dishonest, because you had to move the goalpost and present your indignation from a misguided place.

And still, even those case-by-case objective nerfs like cooldowns: Nothing is sacred. Everything is open for nerfs at any moment DE's present design goals are being hindered by old content.

9 hours ago, Bacl said:

All i am asking is a compromise because i am pointing out that what they are currently doing is unfair, specially for those who invested platinum or real money in getting these (not my case).

Do they compensate those who spent 3,000 plat the day before a Riven disposition adjustment? No? Why should Arcanes be a special exception?

9 hours ago, Bacl said:

 Now if you dont care or want to white knight them even when they are clearly screwing you over well, enjoy i guess?

See, here's the problem with players with a mentality like yours: You can't even fathom the possibility that someone may be accepting of nerfs for reasons other than being a white knight that just bends over and takes it as given to them by DE without question as if there's no middle ground.

Constructive criticism towards their decisions, by me:

Feedback on the melee rework and how it killed Naramon and Blood Rush.

How to improve the Kuva Lich system by streamlining it and decreasing the layers of RNG.

The problem with one and done rewards.

Why WF needs dedicated servers at least for Arbitration.

And here's me in the dev workshop thread pointing out the inconsistency with regards to Guardian in particular:

On 2020-02-28 at 6:36 PM, Jarriaga said:

This Arcane that looks objectively nerfed without compensation, and hard. Unless that's a typo, not only will you not get the 50% stacking compensation (For 900 total armor in this case), but it will also have a lower proc chance than the current Rank 3 version (15% vs 20%). Sure it will last longer, but you'll be taking a lot more damage. Any special reasoning as to why this defensive Arcane is being nerfed so hard?

Just because I can accept a nerf (As long as it is consistent with whatever else that is being changed) does't mean I accept the entire game as it is without question while defending any DE decision. Nuance in a per-case basis. I know that's a hard concept for you to grasp based on your response, because in your case, the only middle ground here is "give me free stuff" because stat adjustments won't address your problem.

Scott said Arcanes were meant to work as "rare" buffs that could change the tide of battle. They were never intended to be things players actually made builds around. That's not open to interpretation. So if they don't want you to double-stack, the natural outcome is to prevent you from double-stacking.

And the thing is, we don't know when they changed their minds about it. Maybe they lacked foresight and expected players not do so on their own free will. Maybe it became too much of a common prevalence after seeing partners making build guides in which the Arcanes were put first and built around and DE didn't like it.

Whatever the reason, right now, they don't like it. Unless you are implying they are not allowed to change their minds, that does not give you the right to get freebies for compensation.

9 hours ago, Bacl said:

Lol they will refund the resources for the Railjack but the thing that probably needed the greatest investment " NaaaaH it will be fine"

Why would an Arcane refund be necessary? They are not removing them from your inventory. Most will remain with the same stats at R3. Distilling will be added so you can fuse your second R3.

Resource adjustments apply to everyone, including those that are yet to do the content as the new resource requirements will be updated in the quest. What you want (10-11 free Arcanes per every R3 you have) only applies to those who have been doing niche content. An irony that you don't see that imbalance as "unfair" because of how convenient it is.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Jarriaga

[(PSN)smb-twisted]

On 2020-03-01 at 6:04 PM, (PS4)TONI__RIBEIRO said:

all they needed to do was, take double stack out and buff the stats

That would be far too simple

Edited March 3, 2020 by (PS4)smb-twisted

[MPonder]

1 hour ago, (PS4)ChaosTheNerd said:

To learn what? How to shoot a limb quickly? Just redeemer prime it, how to collect lures is the only time you have to learn something, everything else is dirt easy but not worth the time to wait for it because I dont waste my time all day on warframe.

Uhuh, right. "Shoot a limb quickly". Another with 0 Exp, go back to farm hydron, because is so much more difficult. every 2:30 hour, you would be able to do at least one night. I'm hardly doing eidolons, there are some day that I don't even do them, I gave a R3 Grace for my cousin two weeks ago and I'm with 5 unranked already. I don't even think the average ammount of eidolon hunts I'm doing is 1 per day.

 

Lazy, Lazy, blame "I have a life".

Edited March 3, 2020 by MPonder

[ikkabotz]

Not to mention it's another arbitrary platinum sink for the players who won't grind the arcanes too, ie another area to exploit players for money but f2p game is perfect they would never put extreme grind walls in the game. 'DE need to make money somehow.' They are now stripping players of what they already had to shake them down for money. Wow.

Edited March 3, 2020 by ikkabotz

[ikkabotz]

They're now taking what you had already earned in Arcanes, nerfing them with an added grind wall to max out again. Many casual players will sink platinum to catch up. This is ok why? They just introduced a new grind here. Why? This doesn't sound fun to me. Does this mean more Eidolons— more cornering time invested to operator amp gameplay? What's the motive behind the change?

The audience who doesn't have the same commitment to the game, this looks like 1) Playing even more grind in a very formulaic and time consuming game mode (You changed void keys to relics for more digestible and accessible content, so why sit through Eidolons) 2)  Access to said rewards for casual by purchasing plat and trading up for their desired arcane. In other words, I don't see how this is a quality of life improvement to the game nor an improvement to the player. Bottom line for me, this looks like an added grind wall for platinum sink. What am I missing in the "pro" column of this change?

 

EDIT - Odd, the 29 reactions to this post have disappeared???

Edited March 6, 2020 by ikkabotz

[Chappie]

Inserting *eating popcorn meme*

Edited March 3, 2020 by Chappie1975

[ikkabotz]

1 minute ago, Chappie1975 said:

*popcorn meme*

I hope so, can't wait. We need REE kid too.

Edited March 3, 2020 by ikkabotz

[Jarriaga]

You need 20 Arcanes today in order to double-stack.

I have 2 R3 Guardians, and Arcane distillation is being added. At worst I'll need just 1 more Arcane after distillation, or none at all if they go with 5+5 for the missing ranks.

You're making a mountain out of a molehill.

 

[Aldain]

So...literally every single live service game in the past 10-15 years?

Hell if that is what people are mad about why isn't anyone mad about unvaultings? All the work grinding out those Primes gets thrown away when others get access to it as well.

Also wouldn't introducing new standing grinds also not respect time investments of long time players? I mean they have to abandon their old standing and start over, all that work for new things that ignores all their previous work.

But pay me no mind, I'm also just here for the poprcorn.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Aldain

[Chewarette]

It's not a precedent though, it was the same when they nerfed [insert whatever weapon or mod here]. Arcanes are no different.

[Kaotyke]

6 minutes ago, ikkabotz said:

I hope so, can't wait. We need REE kid too.

 

[(XBOX)Hyperion Rexx]

Will you still get the extra revives at r3 in the new system you get currently or will that be gone until it's maxed out to r5 ? 

[Kaotyke]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Hyperion Rexx said:

Will you still get the extra revives at r3 in the new system you get currently or will that be gone until it's maxed out to r5 ? 

Still get revives at R3. But we shouldnt mention that to increase RREEEs.