Warframe Revised: >100% Status Chance / Shotgun Megathread

[VentiGlondi]

3 minutes ago, Masti6 said:

Which makes no sense when they go about this grand "yay >100status btw" but leave shotguns / multishot weapons completely gimped being able to reach only a 3rd of their old power, like, what gives?

It's kinda weird, because my Kuva Brakk, which only has 30% per pellet reaches 10 corrosion stacks in one shot and feels just as good as ever.

On the other hand Akbronco Prime feels worse, even though it's in the exact same spot.

They need to revisit shotguns that were all about status and had no crits to back it up. They don't even need to put them back at 100%. When a gun shoots 20-something pellets even 70%(when modded) is strong. But putting them below 50% doesn't feel right.

[Deinocamo]

Hello there,

I'm very happy about the status proc changes. Now everything have its place... aside from Gas.

Gas is a elemental damage made from Heat and Toxin. Therefore I can't use any elemental made from Heat nor Toxin. If I use Gas, which include Corrosive and Viral.

So, while using Gas, I won't be able to use the 2 armor stripping element. Gas is also weak against shield, and to make Magnetic/Gas, it is not efficient.

Other rant about Gas is in this thread, last paragraph of the 1st post:

Electricity proc does effectively the same thing but more effective because of the element bonus bonus vs armor and shield while having less reduction vs other hp/armor type. While Gas damage is only effective against infested hp type. As Gas proc now does Gas damage, it doesn't by pass shield nor armor and has -50% on other faction hp types, therefore extremely weak stacking in both number and with other damage type.

Please consider this. Thank you.

Edited March 5, 2020 by Deinocamo

[VoadorHolandes]

Seens to me that the changes to shotguns were made in bulk so it doesn't quite work out in specific cases. Out of the shotguns I have, only the exergis seens to work properly.

Kuva Kohm shows 300% but it is quite clearly it isn't so. My boy Phantasma is just broken, it is supposed to fire 5 pellets per action and with 100% status per pellet it seens to have much less a percentage.

Multi-shot seens to be king now. I can say that it does even Shotgun performance and brings about much needed build variety to it. Just need to fix some of the weapons, case by case.

[Spartykins]

2 hours ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

Recommendation: switch the Impact and Blast status effects entirely. They make little sense in their current configuration, but they make a bucketload of sense if switched around. 

whichever causes stagger should totally open enemies to finishers/mercy kills, I will not shut up about this

[Rizoa]

"Shotguns as a special case means we have buffed the Status Chance of all Shotguns by x3 or greater"

You forgot the Astilla. There's no reason it shouldn't get the same buff as pellet based shotguns. If anything, with the change to its explosion, it should be in the "or greater" category since it's going to rely on those multiprocs to do damage.

Don't leave slug based shottys in the dust.

[(PSN)FinaLLanceR]

55 minutes ago, AegisAmaranth said:

Something very dominant on some weapons, is how the impact works.
It eventually, throws targets to the floor.

Kind of like blast, but unintentional in some cases.
It messes up accurate shots in succession (twin kohmak, for example).
As you suddenly lose your targets's head from being a target.

It would be nice, to have them stagger for a longer duration instead,
Rather than flatout falling to the ground.

Maybe a new animation could be added.
Where enemies start being pushed towards falling, but keep themselves barely up.
One hand behind them, finding something to rest against, while attempting to resist the impacts.
This way, you don't lose your intended target; their head.

I feel like a concussion effect would be best. Basically a 1 second "sleep" animation would work. Still CCs them but allows us to still, you know, shoot their face. Initial makes you stagger, second makes you concuss, subsequent ones...idk add weakspot damage? 10% up to 50% more damage to headshots/weakspots?

[Braneman]

Zarr alternate fire needs looking at and updating with the most recent changes, Tigris Prime has a lower status chance than any other variant of the tigris. Similar situation with the Twin Grakatas, Fusilai alternate fire, the Twin Rogga have a really low status chance for what they were before, same with the Cernos Prime.

The case with the Fusilai really needs to be brought up with the standard fire mode because the idea before was it fired three shots and cost 3 ammo so it's not a traditional shotgun mode, it just kinda got hit with these changes. And the Zarr's alternate fire has about a 4% base status chance, compared to what it was before that's really really small, that leaves little reason to use the alternate fire.

Edited March 5, 2020 by Braneman

[Shy0]

my initial impressions:

• blast now useless (no more knockdown and short-lasting small accuracy debuff is pointless, plus grineer cat lady grenades will still KO you pretty quickly in spite of shield gating), better to mod for electric or fire and reapply stun
• impact does stagger enemies and make them drunk somehow, but they get a bit too wobbly to hit their "weak spots" (groin doesn't count as "weak spot"; them future jockstraps must be hella tough)
• previously OP AOE weapons like torid and pox are now completely trash due to no more cc and.. oh.. wait.. with viral and electric/fire, cc is less reliable than knockdown, but is ok as long as you keep reapplying them
• slash still strong, especially with viral and electric/fire..
• nightwatch napalm is the new blast, i guess, because, you know, fire, on top of viral and electric/fire main damage..
• used to have a cold and gas supra that was kinda fun, but gas is now useless against anything that is not flesh, so it got changed to viral and fire and is back to usable
• lenz is now useless due to cold being useless unless you stack it, and you can't stack cold with lenz, so...
• funnily enough, corpus shield drones are now the new corpus priority targets unless you bring magnetic/gas/toxin with you to destroy/bypass shields
• i don't usually use saryn but she could have taken an indirect nerf?
• think i'll take another break from the game till all this crap blows over or DE reverts everything, otherwise i'll burn all my weapons and start with a new no-plat account since all my old stuff and builds and polarities are as good as trash now. it's one thing to refresh things. it's another to throw years of effort and knowledge and repeatedly forma-ing gear out the window in one patch

[rstripn]

Impact: awesome. Blast: needs something more.

After more use: impact not so awesome thanks to knockdown. Blast definitely needs something more.

Edited March 5, 2020 by rstripn
update

[(XBOX)Revandesu]

DE don't screw with the status effects. I was annoyed that you were taking out self damage because all you needed to do was make shots go through allies. Would have solved all the problems,  but was still going to try it out. You nerfed the heck out of my arcane guardian which I've put in a lot of effort for, but I was ok with it due to the new armor valuesand shield mechanics. But why the heck did you nerf enemy armor so much? I like the damage fall off by 50 percent, but not this 90 bull. I enjoyed this game because it was fun and difficult. You had to experiment with builds until you got it to the point you could handle high level enemies. But now you completely messed up corrosive to the point its useless, made viral another toxin or slash like effect. You made cold and  puncture worse for no reason, and made it possible for broken mechanics with impact and blast. And if you don't know what I'm talking about go play test the Bramma with Mirage and as much multi-shot as possible. Radiation I'm fine with. It got a boost but not one that is potentially game breaking. With these changes you all but killed my favorite warframe Saryn. And you seem to have taken the allure out of my mirage bramma combo. In conclusion don't screw with something good to try and fix something bad. You want people to use more arcane? Make better arcanes. Enable you to combine arcane effects for certain ones. Like the elemental resistances or movement ones. Then you can still keep those garbage arcanes in the game. Also there is a saying my instructor used to say, "when going about fixing a computer, make one change at a time. Otherwise you won't know what the actual problem is or how to fix it when it happens again." Food for thought.

[Jarriaga]

40 minutes ago, StormSaber1 said:

Puncture: The current effect is still way too useless and boring, so instead of applying the weakness debuff, what about giving the individual projectile/bullet, that triggers the status, a 2m (or a different value) punch through? As for stacking in the rare case one projectile/bullet procs 2 or more puncture statuses at the same time, just add another 2m to it.

The problem with punch-through as a proc is that you'd need either a completely different and separate status effect for melee puncture, or melee puncture effectively gets no status effect. There's also the can of worms of what gunblade puncture procs would do.

[DarthMax]

Is bleeding damage caused by Slash influenced by the damage buff from the viral proc?

?

Edited March 5, 2020 by DarthMax

[Ham_Grenabe]

1 minute ago, Jarriaga said:

The problem with punch-through as a proc is that you'd need either a completely different and separate status effect for melee puncture, or melee puncture effectively gets no status effect. There's also the can of worms of what gunblade puncture procs would do.

I mentioned this in another thread; I think Puncture - drilling holes in the enemy with high-velocity objects - should have a chance to enhance crits (either stacking as you stack procs, or fixed chance with renewable durations, or something). You've dealt the deep wound, it should be wreaking some havoc with the internal bits. 

I realize that can get out of hand fast so the chance would probably need to be tuned small and dialed in. Perhaps it could enhance crits for the whole squad, even.

[Jarriaga]

3 minutes ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

I mentioned this in another thread; I think Puncture - drilling holes in the enemy with high-velocity objects - should have a chance to enhance crits (either stacking as you stack procs, or fixed chance with renewable durations, or something). You've dealt the deep wound, it should be wreaking some havoc with the internal bits. 

I realize that can get out of hand fast so the chance would probably need to be tuned small and dialed in. Perhaps it could enhance crits for the whole squad, even.

Ergo, swap viral with puncture as I mention here:

3 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

I think some status effects should be swapped for practical and logical reasons:

- Viral and Puncture status effects should be swapped. "Puncture" is the damage type that is supposed to be effective against armor, but its status effect is inferior to slash. Puncture should do what Viral does because you'd expect making a hole on armor would make the user take more damage. This would also make it compete better with Slash.

- Viral should get what Puncture does because you'd expect it to weaken enemies and deal less damage as they get sick.

- The Blast effect should be given to Impact. Makes more sense because when you take a big hit and get dizzy, your coordination (Ergo your aim) fails.

- This in turn opens the door for Blast to be given stagger or knockdown, as expected from an explosion.

It would also make it compete a lot better against slash as it is a lot easier to build slash + current viral than puncture (Swapped with viral) + slash.

Edited March 5, 2020 by Jarriaga

[Ham_Grenabe]

Just now, Jarriaga said:

Ergo, swap viral with puncture as I mention here:

It would also make it compete a lot better against slash as it is a lot easier to build slash + current viral than puncture (Swapped with viral) + slash.

Ah, yep, missed that post. Easier than building new mechanics -- just swap 'em (like swapping Impact and Blast). 

[Valfaun]

wish the Status effects had more uniqueness to them. like, maybe add a special effect to them when achieving the maximum number of proc stacks on an enemy. something like "Acid Burn" for Corrosion that inflicts a DoT, "Conflagration" for Heat that spreads one stack to nearby enemies, "Deep Wound" for Slash that reduces an enemy's health kinda like the previous Viral proc, "Freeze" for Cold that completely freezes an enemy in place for a short time or perhaps "Frostbite" that damages them, etc.

something to make them more interesting and different, not just a range of intensifying debuffs.

maybe you could even ditch the stacking design entirely in favor of something more dynamic like "Status Intensity". rather than adding stacks, followup procs could intensify a status, gradually increasing its effect until maxed out at which point a special effect like suggested above will trigger. heavy hits could build a Status faster than weaker ones and not proccing for a short time would quickly degrade the Intensity until the Status expires

Edited March 5, 2020 by Valfaun
added a thought

[Dragazer]

3 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

 Viral and Puncture status effects should be swapped. "Puncture" is the damage type that is supposed to be effective against armor, but its status effect is inferior to slash. Punctureshould do what Viral does because you'd expect making a hole on armor would make the user take more damage. This would also make it compete better with Slash.

Please no, just give puncture a new status effect altogether. The proc just isn't helpful at all when you got multiple enemies shooting at you. 

Puncture already has innate dmg bonus against armor without needing a proc.

Edited March 5, 2020 by Dragazer

[Jarriaga]

11 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

Please no, just give puncture a new status effect altogether. The proc just isn't helpful at all when you got multiple enemies shooting at you. 

The enemy armor scalling change showed that Grineer are nothing without their armor. Now players find them to be like paper.

Current viral + slash will only make that worse.

If general balancing is the intention, then viral's current effect is a problem. It will become mandatory as it gets no competition, more so when paired with slash. Rather than outright nerfing slash or viral, making them hard to pair by giving the viral proc to a damage type that competes with slash in priority is a sensible approach. It also makes sense on practical terms with regards to what you'd expect out of the damage type definitions. You don't expect fire to get you wet.

11 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

Puncture already has innate dmg bonus against armor without needing a proc.

Which, as I mentioned in my post, is inferior to what slash does to armor at the end of the day. Now pair that with current viral.

Edited March 5, 2020 by Jarriaga

[Cash4Cookies]

Cernos Prime works like a shotgun but did not receive any kind of buff. it needs to get the same 3x increase as others at the very least (which in itself seems questionable. universal 3x buff does not work out. where is the "or greater" buff)

the more pellets, the harder the nerf to shotguns. this is especially easy to see on twin rogga which has 15 pellets and went from being able to get 100% per pellet to less than 25%
and rogga is by no means a super powerful or popular shotgun.

the buff to status chance should be case-by-case
 

[AskForMercy]

Relentless Combination mod now just doesn't work at all! You killed my build! #fix_relentless_combination

[Dragazer]

4 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

The enemy armor scalling change showed that Grineer are nothing without their armor. Now players find them to be like paper.

Current viral + slash will only make that worse.

If general balancing is the intention, then viral's current effect is a problem. It will become mandatory as it gets no competition, more so when paired with slash. Rather than outright nerfing slash or viral, making them hard to pair by giving the viral proc to a damage type that competes with slash in priority is a sensible approach. It also makes sense on practical terms with regards to what you'd expect out of the damage type definitions. You don't expect fire to get you wet.

One guy ≠ everyone

Puncture already has innate dmg bonus against armor they ignore 50% of ferrite armor and 15% of alloy and this is without requiring a status effect. If you're going for the realism argument then viral proc makes them sick and fragile therefore more susceptible to dmg.

 

[KommandantViy]

37 minutes ago, rstripn said:

Impact: awesome.

Blast: needs something more.

Impact is terrible. I love shooting an enemy in the head only for them to ragdoll to the ground and I can no longer hit their head, awesome. Having blast do the knockdown was better, because almost everything has innate impact, whereas blast you had to purposefully mod for in 95% of cases.

[KommandantViy]

36 minutes ago, DarthMax said:

Is bleeding damage caused by Slash influenced by the damage buff from the viral proc?

?

It appears to be, with the caveat of it has to be AFTER viral is applied. For example, if you hit with a shotgun that does 6 viral and 6 slash procs, it will have the damage increase equal to those 6 viral procs, but the 6 slash procs will be applied at normal damage. Any follow up slash procs applied during the viral procs, however, seem to benefit from the damage bonus.

[Jarriaga]

9 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

One guy ≠ everyone

People in that thread are not disagreeing with him.

9 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

Puncture already has innate dmg bonus against armor they ignore 50% of ferrite armor and 15% of alloy and this is without requiring a status effect.

Pucture gets damage bonus vs armor, but it's percentage-based. Meaning, the higher the armor (Which is flat damage reduction), the lower the damage bonus. It gets nullified eventually, while the slash proc does not have that problem, outdamaging puncture in the process. Enemy damage reduction is applied first, and then whatever damage is left, is boosted by the puncture damage type by the remaining ammount. It's inferior to slash in every way, shape, or form.

9 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

If you're going for the realism argument then viral proc makes them sick and fragile therefore more susceptible to dmg.

That's fair. Now why is puncture decreasing damage output? Why is a hole in their armor decreasing the damage they deal instead of increasing the damage they take?

Viral goes both ways. Puncture does not.

Edited March 5, 2020 by Jarriaga

[Dragazer]

31 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

People in that thread are not disagreeing with him.

Puncture does not ignore armor. I have no idea where you got that from.

Pucture gets damage bonus vs armor, but it's percentage-based. Meaning, the higher the armor (Which is flat damage reduction), the lower the damage bonus. It gets nullified eventually, while the slash proc does not have that problem, outdamaging puncture in the process.

 

Do your research before commenting and spreading bad info again please. Dmg types that have an innate bonus against armor also ignore a % of the respective armor value. 

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Armor

Net Armor=Armor(1−Armor Class Modifiers)

Armor is your armor value before considering damage types.
Armor Class Modifier can be found on the nearby charts.

To illustrate,  Slash damage against a target with Ferrite Armor would effectively be mitigated by an additional 15% of the target's total armor (Net Armor=Armor(1+.15)). On the other hand,  Puncture damage against a target with Ferrite Armor would effectively ignore 50% of the target's total armor (Net Armor=Armor(1−.5)).

Apart from this armor value modification, type damage modifiers against the armor and health classes of the target also plainly multiply the damage. There is a more accurate total damage calculation further down the page, but this section covers the armor value modification.

48 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

Current viral + slash will only make that worse.

If general balancing is the intention, then viral's current effect is a problem. It will become mandatory as it gets no competition, more so when paired with slash. Rather than outright nerfing slash or viral, making them hard to pair by giving the viral proc to a damage type that competes with slash in priority is a sensible approach. It also makes sense on practical terms with regards to what you'd expect out of the damage type definitions. You don't expect fire to get you wet.

Did you forget that slash was nerfed to not be able to bypass shields at all anymore?

Or that viral procs have absolutely zero effect on shields since it only increases dmg done to health specifically?  

31 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

That's fair. Now why is puncture decreasing damage output? Why is a hole in their armor decreasing the damage they deal instead of increasing the damage they take?

Viral goes both ways. Puncture does not.

Puncture procs are terrible I agree, but lets not screw over the few procs that are actually fine.

Edited March 5, 2020 by Dragazer