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[DE]Bear

Warframe Revised: Part 3 Feedback Megathread

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 Hey Tenno,

Scarlet Spear has launched, and with it has come Part 3 of Warframe Revised! Here is a list of the changes that have been made:

  1. Impact Damage
  2. Gas Damage
  3. Status Chance Mods
  4. Kuva Liches
  5. Foundry Crafting Times
  6. Magus Lockdown Arcanes
  7. Grendel Changes
  8. Titania Changes
  9. Rakta Dark Dagger
  10. Scarlet Spear ETA Now Live!

1. Impact Damage:
Impact damage will now have an accumulating effect that can stack on enemies, leading to a large stagger and additional chance to have a Parazon Finisher animation available. In brief, these changes are:

  • Each stack of Impact Status creates a slightly bigger stagger effect until a heavy stagger occurs at 5 stacks.
  • Each stack of Impact Status increases the chance of a Parazon Finisher move by 10%, available when the enemy falls below the required health threshold.

Why: 
We mentioned this on the Devstream, but we wanted to write out the plans here on what we’re changing based on feedback. Ragdolls and Knockdowns were not a status effect our players enjoyed! 

2. Gas Damage:
Gas damage has been reworked to have a radius stacking effect with a focus on how it continues to work after the death of an enemy who is affected by it. In short, this means the following changes have been made:

  • Gas Effects will continue to cause damage-over-time to targets even after the original target dies.
  • Gas Status Area-of-Effect radius increases with the number of stacks, to a max of 10 stacks.
  • Gas damage resistance has been removed from Toxic Ancient Auras. 

Why: 
There has been a lot of feedback over Gas damage, and how it seemed lacking in comparison to other Status effects. This change will hopefully give Gas a bit more viability, and make it react in a way that is thematically appropriate.

3. Status Chance Mods:
With all the changes to Status effects, we have made a broad increase to Status Chance mods, increasing them dramatically. There are a few other mods that required a buff, however. The exact numbers can be found below:

  • Increased Hammer Shot Status Chance from 40% to 80%.
  • Increased Shattering Justice Status Chance from 20% to 90%. In addition, this buff has been changed from an additive chance to a multiplicative chance.
  • Increased Stunning Speed Status Chance from 10% to 30%.

Why: 
As we stated before in previous Warframe Revised posts, Status Chance got a buff when changes were made to how Status stacks are delivered. This is simply covering a few more Mods to bring them in line with the new balance
.

4. Kuva Lich Changes:
Based on feedback with the recent overhaul to Status Effects in Warframe Revised 27.2.0, the conversation of how Status Effects should react with Bosses or VIPS has started. Our first step down this road is starting with Kuva Liches. Currently, there are two special rules to this “Boss Status enabling”:

  • No Status Effect will exceed a maximum of 4 stacks, with the exception of Impact which can stack up to 6 times. There is a cooldown on status for Liches, however, to prevent stun-locking them in place and removing the challenge with Status Weapons.
  • Radiation does not change the enemy’s Faction, and instead of increasing Damage done to enemies with stacks, it increases the Damage taken from enemies who have turned on them.

Why:
Kuva Liches are tough, but that toughness was limited to their immunities and level of health. This change will let the individual builds of a player have more meaning when fighting a Lich, while still keeping them challenging. Pending feedback, this change will also be applied to other bosses in Warframe.

We look forward to your constructive feedback and we work towards applying this to other Bosses/VIPS.
 
5. Foundry Crafting Time Change:
In an effort to help maintain some building consistency, we have reduced the build time for Forma, Orokin Catalysts, Orokin Reactors, and Exilus Adaptors to 23 hours (as opposed to 24) as per player request.

Why: 
When building Forma or another similar item, having a 24-hour limit meant that players who signed on at a regular time would see some delays in when an item was ready. We wanted to be respectful of a player’s playing time, and by making it 23 hours, they can grab their completed item and start another build without upsetting their routine. P.S don’t forget about the Mobile app! 

6. Magus Lockdown Changes:
We are making some changes to Magus Lockdown that will keep it as a tactical option over the ‘do-everything’ solution. Here are the changes coming with the Scarlet Spear update:

  • Magus Lockdown will no longer apply Puncture damage to tethered enemies.
  • The amount of active Tether Mines is now limited to 2 per player (with 10 Tethers a piece at rank 5). This means that if you cast Magus Lockdown a third time, the first Tether Mine will stop, and the new Tether Mine will take its place.
  • Magus Lockdown no longer affects the Golden Maw due to the Arcane killing the Maw and preventing Quest completion. This also fixes a script error that was causing some problems when the Golden Maw is encountered.

Why:
Magus Lockdown has a reputation for being the CC and Damage meta, and after some review, it is not hard to see why. There are cases where Magus Lockdown has wiped entire waves of Elite Sanctuary Onslaught without the need for a weapon or a Warframe power and that is not what we had in mind for the design of this.

7. Grendel Changes:
Grendel has been out in the wild for some time now, and with the player feedback, we have made the following changes to the hungriest Warframe:

  • Grendel’s Nourish now mimics Titania’s Tribute buff selector. If you’re unfamiliar with Titania’s Tribute buff selector, you can tap the Ability to select a different buff, then hold the Ability to cast the selected effect.
  • When consumed by Grendel, Sentients now have a max duration they can be consumed before popping out, on a timer that is affected by diminishing returns. This change was made to prevent Grendel from stopping mission progression where all Sentients must be exterminated for the mission to succeed.
  • Grendel can now consume Grenades, because why not add a bit of spicy seasoning to your meal?

Why:
This change was to make power selection more consistent with other Warframes, as well as reduce the potential for exploiting missions with sentient threats by either removing them from play or locking down the mission. As for eating grenades? Well, why not? He’s a hungry boy.

8. Titania Changes & Fixes:
Titania has seen a few changes in recent history, but there were a couple of additional quality-of-life modifications we wanted to make to bring her in line with other similar systems:

  • Titania has a new Passive: Titania generates Health for herself and nearby Allies every time she casts an Ability. NOTE: The personal Titania Parkour Boost is staying, just the communal Trampoline isn't.
  • Titania can now use Blink while in her Razorwing ability.
  • We fixed an issue where casting Razorwing while in a specific Simarlacrum situation would result in a white screen.

Why:
Since Titania uses the same systems as Archwing in her Razorwing form, we wanted her abilities to match with what players are used to. The new Passive Ability was a replacement that we felt would make her more enticing to play, while also thematic.

9. Rakta Dark Dagger
The passive bonus which grants Shields when attacking an enemy afflicted with the Radiation Status has been tweaked to work with Shield Gating. Now the bonus will only apply if you have shields active.

Why:
This is a balance pass after shield gating was introduced. With the new system, shields would tick in, defeating the new delay set by the Shield gate. This change simply makes sure you are getting the same buffs without abusing the new Shield system.

Please feel free to leave your feedback in this thread, but make sure to keep your feedback civil and constructive.

Thank you!

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Posted (edited)

This might be me, but I feel like Radiation and Viral effects should be interchanged with each other. Radiation is the thing that should increase Health damage the more you have (that's what happens with actual radiation, in a way); and Viral, well, viral can be anything so it might better be suited to this virus that make you attack your friends... like a zombie virus?

I know that it stays like this for legacy reasons (people will get confused) but please don't be afraid to make these changes. In the long run they will make sense.

Looking forward to the Gas changes.

Edited by notNSANE

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Several players in a Discord I'm in have all found that in our average gameplay experiences, Mercy finishers are rarely ever able to be performed on any enemies, because by the time they get down to the Mercy threshold, they're only an errant bullet, melee swing, ability, or existing status proc tick away from dying. The various Parazon mercy effects aren't often even worth the time the Mercy finisher takes to complete, compared to simply pulling a trigger one more time. Please consider making the Mercy more rare but at a higher threshold, to make it more special, more worth doing, and harder to miss the chance for. Or consider making the Impact super-proc raise said threshold and chance. Both changes would honestly be appreciated, I believe, by the rest of the Warframe community.

(Just think of all of the stacked Viral/Corrosive/Heat/Slash/Toxin procs, or Warframe abilities like Saryn's Spores or Nova's Molecular Prime, that are already stacked on most targets, and realize how fast that last sliver of Mercy-able health disappears on it's own)

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Please, we need some major murmur improvements to the Lich System and some major QoL changes beyond just what status effects are doing. 

How do you expect people to give any good feedback about it when the whole system feels like a mess to play? 

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Posted (edited)

Cant seems play Murex space mission, crashed 3 time, 2 time I was host, and 1 time another member. 

But able to play solo. RJ speed gone for some reason.

Edited by -IE-DragonZero-

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54 minutes ago, [DE]Bear said:

5. Foundry Crafting Time Change:
In an effort to help maintain some building consistency, we have reduced the build time for Forma, Orokin Catalysts, Orokin Reactors, and Exilus Adaptors to 23 hours (as opposed to 24) as per player request.

Why: 
When building Forma or another similar item, having a 24-hour limit meant that players who signed on at a regular time would see some delays in when an item was ready. We wanted to be respectful of a player’s playing time, and by making it 23 hours, they can grab their completed item and start another build without upsetting their routine. P.S don’t forget about the Mobile app! 

It would be best to not have to do these changes, not have to add 100x blueprints for ciphers, restores, etc, by making the foundry able to queue multiples of the same blueprint.

You still have QOL issues with other blueprints, like gems, fieldron, mutagen mass, etc.

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First reaction to Gas damage changes vs lv 100 enemies

Gas damage shouldn't push enemies away from the source. It seems to stagger unaware enemies away from the gas source.

1. It doesn't do well versus any faction

     A. Gas damage doesn't proc toxin and bypass shields so it no longer is useful against Corpus espescially if they have a shield drone up.

     B. The slow Heavily armored units don't care about gas damage while light armor units are fast enough to run out of proc range.

     C. Infested already die pretty quickly so it's difficult to build up procs against them and ancient healers prevent the light units from getting the proc and any unit close to the healer takes no damage so it doesn't matter.

2. No weapon can take advantage of gas proc properly.

     A. The proc deals damage in an AoE based on your damage so you want high damage weapons for a stronger proc.

     B. Snipers can't proc often enough to get the AoE to affect enough enemies

     C. Fast firing automatic weapons don't deal enough damage per shot to make building for gas worthwhile. You have a large AoE that doesn't deal enough damage.

3.  The main problem with gas is that weapons that can proc a lot of gas either don't deal enough damage or benefit more from other status while high damage weapons usually can't benefit from multiple gas procs and don't really get any use from the AoE. I personally think gas still needs some tweaks for it to be worth using.

     A. Making the gas AoE always 12 meters would  make it much better for high damage weapons like snipers

     B. If the procs had no cap like fire procs it would be better for fast firing automatic weapons.

     C. I would personally change gas procs to add a percentage of the targets health as damage to the AoE so you would target high health enemies like Bombards,Techs, and Ancients and when they die the gas AoE takes care of the light units.

     D. Another possible change would to be to keep the 12 radius but only have gas procs appear on the death of the target and have the percent based damage. It would deal an explosion of gas damage on death based on number of procs and the cloud damage would be based a % on the target's max health.

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Posted (edited)
Quote
Spoiler

 

Test results: As expected...

Regular Ogris only has Blast Damage, and since mods like these

latest?cb=20171007145335happen to not be usable outside of Conclave, you can't even give it Impact.

The Kuva Ogris, funnily enough does have Impact...on ''impact'' only. 
What does this mean? It means you will only proc Impact, using the Kuva Ogris, if you hit an enemy directly. Caught in the eplosion radius? 'Tis but a scratch.

 

Explain to me your logic here DE, please. What made you think, that an RPG should not be capable of knocking it's target off-balance...
Unless said target is yourself of course, because that makes sense.

Solution: Revert the Blast status proc change pronto! Buff it even, as an apology to not only people like me who use it, but to the laws of physics as well!
Bonus solution: Do the above^ and give the accuracy debuff to Impact procs, i.e. Impact now staggers targets and makes them less accurate.

Quote

I am waiting.

Quote

Und die wait continues.

Quote

Gets popcorn

Quote

Patience supply: 9000/9001

 

 

 

 

I am not gonna stop, you know.

Edited by AlphaPHENIX
Quality Standards

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Gas AoE damage doesn't stack beyond the first ten procs.

DIRECTED BY ROBERT B. WEIDE

No, seriously, that's... It's so... I don't even have words that don't break forum rules. Have anybody spent a second considering the high ROF/low dmg per shot weapons? Anyone at all?

 

 

6 минут назад, Luther848 сказал:

Making the gas AoE always 12 meters would  make it much better for high damage weapons like snipers

Current gas at 10 procs is no more than 7 meters. In a standard Simulacrum formation for 8x spawns, it's impossible to affect the entire group when firing at the fringe targets. It seems to scale from ~3m to ~6.5m or something. It has no fall-off, so range is probably ok. If the damage is made into something meaningful, it would be enough, without turning any weapon into Bramma equivalent.

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"Magus Lockdown will no longer apply Puncture damage to tethered enemies.
The amount of active Tether Mines is now limited to 2 per player (with 10 Tethers a piece at rank 5). This means that if you cast Magus Lockdown a third time, the first Tether Mine will stop, and the new Tether Mine will take its place."

Have the 2 nerf is too mush.

Only 1 of the 2 would be enough :

Remove the damage, or limite the number of target.

 

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4 minutes ago, Seeryx said:

Current gas at 10 procs is no more than 7 meters. In a standard Simulacrum formation for 8x spawns, it's impossible to affect the entire group when firing at the fringe targets. It seems to scale from ~3m to ~6.5m or something. It has no fall-off, so range is probably ok. If the damage is made into something meaningful, it would be enough, without turning any weapon into Bramma equivalent.

Huh thought they said it was going to be like 12 in the devstream must be remembering it wrong.

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Is there meant to be matchmaking in scarlet spear? because there isn't, and that's a problem for people like me who have no friends that play warframe

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Getting the kill codes is a massive load of frustration. I brought Gara, perfect for protecting the scanners.

 

Except they don't go where you want them, they are scattered all about. Sometimes over 10m away from wheere you are targetting. So you can't protect them.

 

Add to the fact that doing 3 of the scans only nets you 45 score and it will take 15k score to get a blueprint... with a 27h window.

 

tumblr_npp2liUhXQ1ra5kwho1_400.gifv

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Posted (edited)

Personally, I really wish that the arcanes that are being offered for the Scarlet Spear event were not maxed out. I have a lot of arcanes, and I would have liked to just buy the remaining amount I needed. Also, matchmaking would be really welcome for this event. Just a node for "Space team" and "ground team" would be good, and it would auto assign you to a floatilla

I was informed that they are only shown as full arcanes, but you do actually buy them one at a time. Thats fair

Edited by spacerocks

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Luther848 said:

-Snip-

5 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

2. Gas Damage:
Gas damage has been reworked to have a radius stacking effect with a focus on how it continues to work after the death of an enemy who is affected by it. In short, this means the following changes have been made:

  • Gas Effects will continue to cause damage-over-time to targets even after the original target dies.
  • Gas Status Area-of-Effect radius increases with the number of stacks, to a max of 10 stacks.
  • Gas damage resistance has been removed from Toxic Ancient Auras. 

Gas damage's biggest issue is that it no longer has any sort of elemental mod scaling for the DoT. Give it dmg scaling off of heat and toxin mods and it'll be great again.

Edited by Dragazer

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

Scarlet Spear ETA Now Live!

Murmur Grind flashbacks.

Cost for both decorations and the gun blueprints are absurdly high.

 

Edited by 8faiNt

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Gas is still useless in levels where status beginns to matter, but even if you buff Gas to a place where it will be good no one will use it as viral as it stands is insane, it works great on every faction and it works better than anything else so why should anybody use anything else? And to be honest i dont know how this happened, like before these changes Corrosive Gas and viral could all be better than each other in different situations and on different weapons, creating a balance and some build diversity. But for some reason you thought that nerfing one a little bit (Corrosive), nerfing one a lot(Gas) and buffing ones damage 3x (Viral) would somehow create more build diversity??? Like honestly how did you come up with this? Im just confused. While these changes for gas are cool and are a good base to make it better, as long as the damage against armored and shielded enemies does not get buffed it will still be useless for anyone. I suspect that you want people to change elements for every faction. The problem with that is that Grineer are the only faction that has high enough effective health that its enough to just mod to fight them and everything that works good on them works also on other factions, espacially against infested.

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vor 2 Minuten schrieb 8faiNt:

Murmur Grind flashbacks.

Cost for both decorations and the gun blueprints are absurdly high.

 

tbh its fine if you do the railjack missions, as you get alot of point that way, but the problem with that is, that for some reason you cant join other public missions if you have your own railjack, so you basically have to do it solo or invt other people in your squad. I mean i wouldnt mind if they increased the rewards, but you also have to take into account that this event is up for a month, you are probably not supposed to frind through everything in a couple hours, more like doing it here and there every time you play.

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vor 49 Minuten schrieb spacerocks:

Personally, I really wish that the arcanes that are being offered for the Scarlet Spear event were not maxed out. I have a lot of arcanes, and I would have liked to just buy the remaining amount I needed. Also, matchmaking would be really welcome for this event. Just a node for "Space team" and "ground team" would be good, and it would auto assign you to a floatilla

 

you only get unreanked ones it says so when you click in them, they are only shown at rank 5 in the shop screen so you see how good they are at max rank

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vor 2 Stunden schrieb AreeSoothsayer:

Add to the fact that doing 3 of the scans only nets you 45 score and it will take 15k score to get a blueprint... with a 27h window.

What 27h window are you refering to? are you sure you are not confusing it with the 27 day duration of the event?

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2 minutes ago, n.ull. said:

What 27h window are you refering to? are you sure you are not confusing it with the 27 day duration of the event?

Bugframe strikes again. It showed 27h for me when I looked.

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Can lockdown pls still do damage to lures and vomvalysts on the plains, it was really important for a fun gamplay loop during the eidolon fights, this just feels sad, i get that it was too strong for normal missions, but it would be nice if other parts of the game would not be negativly effected by this espacially if you consider that eidolon fights are really the only content where playing with your operator is necessary and gets rewarded. So nerfing something that was important and not overpowered in that context just feels like an oversight, even if its just a flat damage that is enough to kill the lures with the current 2 mines limits would be fine, you wouldnt be able to kill anything meaningful in other parts of that game with that anyway. Hope you consider these changes, there where even some better suggestions in your first post about the lockdown changes but they have apperantly not been considered yet.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, [DE]Bear said:

Gas damage has been reworked to have a radius stacking effect with a focus on how it continues to work after the death of an enemy who is affected by it. In short, this means the following changes have been made:

  • Gas Effects will continue to cause damage-over-time to targets even after the original target dies.
  • Gas Status Area-of-Effect radius increases with the number of stacks, to a max of 10 stacks.
  • Gas damage resistance has been removed from Toxic Ancient Auras. 

Alright, seeing as gas still doesn't scale with toxin mods, I'm going to assume it's intentional. With that in mind, I think I see what DE is going for with the changes. This will be my final post on the issue.

Gas is now most effective against crowds of weak enemies. The lingering effect could be useful in modes like defense, and I could even see large status duration bonuses being really useful to keep clouds going in bottlenecks of maps. That's what the design seems to be going for.

I'd like to step back and look at the purpose of Status 3.0: to make status weapons powerful alongside crit weapons. Well, before Status 3.0 I was already a status believer. Gas was the damage king, and is what kept status weapons competitive with crit weapons. Stacking toxin with faction damage mods was a needle-focused build strategy with extremely rewarding results.

Gas today finds itself instead competing with other effects, such as today's go-to Viral+heat combination. What can gas combo with? Cold, Electric, or Magnetic. You can just give me electric, I don't even want my gas diluting the electric. I would rather heat and toxin not combine, at least they both scale, and carry much more useful effects such as reduced armor, shield-piercing damage, and heat DoTs that can be refreshed forever (I miss enduring affliction, another god-like mod to salvage status that we've lost). Yeah they don't work in an AoE, but at least they do damage. Gas needs two elements. It's new radius is not very impressive, and I think of it as a low-impact feature. It doesn't make up for it's abysmal damage. Oh how it has fallen.

Before viral was buffed, it already saw plenty of use. Now it sees all the use on every weapon, regardless if they are focused on crit or status. Gas is only strong against crowds, Viral is equally strong against the same crowds, so why use Gas? Corrosive has also seen better days, but it too rarely sees use in builds today. It can be combo'd with Heat, Cold, or Blast. Why bother.

What's happening? Just about all of the status diversity has been lost in a single update. The damage potential of status has been gutted with the neutering of the gas damage formula. Armor and Corrosive have both been made significantly less important. Their adjacent elements don't make up for them. 

Gas doesn't scale with toxin mods. That's just step 1, and it will probably not be exponential like before when this is finally changed. So here's my feedback for when that happens: It's not enough. It will be on par with electric, a primary element. The best middle-ground I realistically see happening is letting it scale with both heat AND toxin. BaseDamage * ToxinModifier * Heat Modifier, but it needs to be BaseDamage * ToxinModifier ^ 2.

I don't want to play this viral game, I want my gas to do damage.

Edited by VhwatGoes
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