(PSN)Xachary_Cross Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 I wouldn't say passive regen, but some sort of non-RNG energy renewal would go a long way. One thing I've always noted when re-ranking, is how nice the energy flow works when you have the refills on rank up, so if they could build something similar in with pseudo-ranks even if you're maxed out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PookieNumnums Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 Just combine shield and energy like hildryn . Health only frames use health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLexiConArtist Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said: On frames with channeling skills you can make use of 190% efficiency, those extra 15% apply on channeled skills. With 190% efficiency you are only required to have 40% duration in order to hit the cost cap on channeled skills. You can make use of >175% efficiency stat in the channelling equation, but the equation nonetheless still caps at 175% net efficiency. It sounds good on paper, but non-channeled abilities can easily achieve better net uptime/efficiency than 4x by scaling from the two stats separately, while also retaining all energy acquisition sources for the purpose of upkeep. Generally a frame will not be 100% reliant on only channelling skills, either, which further marginalises the effect of over-efficiency. Having an ability be channelled is a limitation, not a benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevoisvevo Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 12 hours ago, darkbrick said: Streamline + Fleeting Expertise not enough for you? no we want old double stack energize for unlimited powwwaahhhhh ⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyErvin Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 7 minutes ago, TheLexiConArtist said: You can make use of >175% efficiency stat in the channelling equation, but the equation nonetheless still caps at 175% net efficiency. It sounds good on paper, but non-channeled abilities can easily achieve better net uptime/efficiency than 4x by scaling from the two stats separately, while also retaining all energy acquisition sources for the purpose of upkeep. Generally a frame will not be 100% reliant on only channelling skills, either, which further marginalises the effect of over-efficiency. Having an ability be channelled is a limitation, not a benefit. It comes alot down to the frame in question. I run both my Oberon and Enox with reduced duration. I only aimed to have oberon's #2 last long enough so I can get two reckoning of if I wanna strip some armor. And on Enox I barely use any skill besides 3 and 4, so duration becomes highly pointless. I dont even use her 1 since I'm already in day mode at the start of a mission. And it is the same deal for me on Titania since the skill I use outside of Razorwing, which is her tribute, isnt effected by duration at all. But then on Mesa my investment on duration is far higher to reach the channeling cap since I need it in order for the buffs to last (really hope they sync the duration of her two buffs!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLexiConArtist Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said: It comes a lot down to the frame in question. True, I did say generally, but also take care to note that I said marginalisation of benefit from over-efficiency. Even if duration is completely irrelevant, you're still paying a little extra for stat that isn't being used on anything with a direct cost. However, it's also more often a case of 'unimportant' than 'irrelevant'; not to need the added duration doesn't always mean it wouldn't be a however-minor benefit were it still present - outside of certain things like Tribute as you mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyErvin Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 1 minute ago, TheLexiConArtist said: True, I did say generally, but also take care to note that I said marginalisation of benefit from over-efficiency. Even if duration is completely irrelevant, you're still paying a little extra for stat that isn't being used on anything with a direct cost. However, it's also more often a case of 'unimportant' than 'irrelevant'; not to need the added duration doesn't always mean it wouldn't be a however-minor benefit were it still present - outside of certain things like Tribute as you mentioned. Well yeah you pay extra, but only in capacity and a small reduction to your duration. If you wanna hit the cap without over-efficiency you are trading 2 capacity cost for a whole extra mod slot instead. A mod slot you probably already need for a priority stat and not duration. Now this is fully based on if you wanna cap your non-channeling ability cost, so have FE and SL already equipped at 1 from max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beol Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 In general terms, warframe follows a very common model. Across a wide variety of game genres, it's normal to be resource starved as a newbie, and have to rely on auto-attack/left click/default attack/whatever and using your "powers" once in awhile, then by endgame you're spamming the powers non-stop. It seems like more of a problem for warframe because a lot of people quit before seeing any meaningful increase in their ability usage. Before, in fact, seeing any evidence that it ever changes at all. There's no "energy regen" as a stat (outside of one aura) for you to see on gear and think, "oh, once I have 50x more of this, I'll have all the energy I need", and clearing your way through a few planets on the star chart, you may never notice you could have used a lot more powers in the few missions with enough enemy density to support it on blue orbs alone. The other methods of amping your energy are all hidden one way or another. Would it be better if newbies had a little more energy to play with, and endgame a little less? Imma go with probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diavoros Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 Passive energy regen was a thing before they added focus schools, if I am not wrong. However, players seem to think that having passive energy regen would change a thing when it comes to casters or channeled ability warframes. You would still need to build for high efficiency if spamming high cost abilities, or to keep channeled abilities uptime, the later would toggle off the passive energy regen so that wouldn't make a damn difference anyway. Get arcane energize R5, build energy pads x100, that's the stuff that makes a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuroraSonicBoom Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 With every frame having become more tanky, the viability for putting rage on them has also drastically increased. There's plenty of ways for you to regain energy already. No need to power creep even more. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovyul Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 10 hours ago, trst said: Efficiency mods that's not regen 10 hours ago, trst said: Arcane Energize that's very expensive and RNG 10 hours ago, trst said: Exodia Brave weapon restricted 10 hours ago, trst said: looting abilities/augments only applies to a handful of frames 10 hours ago, trst said: companions that die when you actually need them 10 hours ago, trst said: abilities name 42 frames with Energy Vampire or equivalent 10 hours ago, trst said: Energy Siphon negligible unless party stacked 10 hours ago, trst said: Energy Generator AHAHAHA 10 hours ago, trst said: Rage/Hunter Adrenalin works as long as you're vs lvl 50's and 95% damage res past that, name 42 frames with these possibilities 10 hours ago, trst said: Equilibrium just nuked 1 mod slot unless you have a Nekros or Oberon 10 hours ago, trst said: Energy Restores send all your polymers my way then R5 Energizing Dash should be baseline regen for all frames at all times. Before you go on about how that's OP and etc etc, it's literally already in the game, all we have to do is to press 3 buttons in a sequence. It's practically another Vacuum scenario, the majority used Carrier purely for vacuum, now the majority uses Zenurik purely for energy. Anyhow, I'm not expecting anything to change regarding this matter. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, Sovyul said: that's not regen that's very expensive and RNG weapon restricted only applies to a handful of frames that die when you actually need them name 42 frames with Energy Vampire or equivalent negligible unless party stacked AHAHAHA works as long as you're vs lvl 50's and 95% damage res past that, name 42 frames with these possibilities just nuked 1 mod slot unless you have a Nekros or Oberon send all your polymers my way then R5 Energizing Dash should be baseline regen for all frames at all times. Before you go on about how that's OP and etc etc, it's literally already in the game, all we have to do is to press 3 buttons in a sequence. It's practically another Vacuum scenario, the majority used Carrier purely for vacuum, now the majority uses Zenurik purely for energy. Anyhow, I'm not expecting anything to change regarding this matter. You're an adult you can farm your own polymer...... You made nothing but excuses for why you cant use any of these items. "Hahaha" isn't a valid argument. At least be honest and say you're either bad at energy management, or otherwise uninformed about your build. If you'd like some advice for a particular frame....feel free to actually ask. This is how you learn things instead of changing the game due to lack of knowledge. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trst Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 12 minutes ago, Sovyul said: -snip- Yes, a free 5 energy a second is horribly overpowered. Energizing Dash at least has the excuse of requiring over 950k focus to restore that much, to make it 100% free is absurd. Everything I listed are merely the methods we all have available to restore energy and none of which exist in a vacuum and several can be stacked together at no detrimental cost to a build. Also my point anyways was that energy is too free already thanks to everything we already have even without relying on Zenurik and has already ruined several aspects of the game. We do not need even more free energy on top of everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovyul Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 12 minutes ago, trst said: Also my point anyways was that energy is too free already thanks to everything we already have even without relying on Zenurik and has already ruined several aspects of the game Transform Warframe into a tactical shooter so muh ability spam won't be a problem anymore, also increase rewards by 4x since it takes more time to finish missions now. Warframe is grind optimized now, it's not a tactical shooter/tech demo anymore. Energy accessibility even in its current form is not OP. 32 minutes ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said: You're an adult you can farm your own polymer...... You made nothing but excuses for why you cant use any of these items. "Hahaha" isn't a valid argument. At least be honest and say you're either bad at energy management, or otherwise uninformed about your build. If you'd like some advice for a particular frame....feel free to actually ask. This is how you learn things instead of changing the game due to lack of knowledge. >anything i disagree with is an excuse, also i must cherry pick 1 comment out of 11, and assume things so i don't fall off my high horse Good lord have I triggered you. Stay mad though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpicyDinosaur Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 15 hours ago, MPonder said: Maxed Stream + Maxed Fleeting give the best Efficiency for channeling abilities and cast cost. If your Warframe doesn't have other abilities that need duration, it is a good combo. You do realise efficiency caps at 175% and maxing both those mods goes over that cap, while still punishing you with the negative, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPonder Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, SpicyDinosaur said: You do realise efficiency caps at 175% and maxing both those mods goes over that cap, while still punishing you with the negative, right? Try it, then come talk about it again, we were talking about cost of channeling abilities. Edited April 13, 2020 by MPonder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trst Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Sovyul said: Transform Warframe into a tactical shooter so muh ability spam won't be a problem anymore, also increase rewards by 4x since it takes more time to finish missions now. Warframe is grind optimized now, it's not a tactical shooter/tech demo anymore. Energy accessibility even in its current form is not OP. The game doesn't need to become something else, it just needs frames to not be able to mash their abilities like they turned on god mode. Otherwise what's the point of any other mechanic or even the simple act of shooting enemies when pressing 4 can kill over ten times the number of enemies in less time than it takes to kill anything with a gun. What purpose does the entire mobility system serve when CC frames can infinitely suppress entire waves of enemies or tank/healing frames when they don't have to ever worry about how many enemies are shooting them. Edited April 13, 2020 by trst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpicyDinosaur Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 10 minutes ago, MPonder said: Try it, then come talk about it again, we were talking about cost of channeling abilities. Maybe you should try it yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPonder Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, SpicyDinosaur said: Mag has no channeling abilities. You are not getting. Max Streamline + Max Fleeting give the max efficiency you can have on CHANNELINGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG abilities. Edited April 13, 2020 by MPonder 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpicyDinosaur Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 Just now, MPonder said: Mag has no channeling abilities. okay, explain in more detail. The stat is 175% and doesn't go over regardless. Unless you have some sort of proof of your claim. I ponied up my proof, so show me how channeling abilities can be impacted beyond the 175% efficiency you can get from the mods by just... going over the cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPonder Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 Just now, SpicyDinosaur said: okay, explain in more detail. The stat is 175% and doesn't go over regardless. Unless you have some sort of proof of your claim. I ponied up my proof, so show me how channeling abilities can be impacted beyond the 175% efficiency you can get from the mods by just... going over the cap. Try it on a Warframe that has Channeling abilities and check the cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPonder Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 1 minute ago, SpicyDinosaur said: okay, explain in more detail. The stat is 175% and doesn't go over regardless. Unless you have some sort of proof of your claim. I ponied up my proof, so show me how channeling abilities can be impacted beyond the 175% efficiency you can get from the mods by just... going over the cap. There is a formula for channeling abilities on this page. It involves efficiency and durationhttps://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Ability_Efficiency Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpicyDinosaur Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 Just now, MPonder said: Try it on a Warframe that has Channeling abilities and check the cost. show me. You are making the claim that I have never heard anything about until this very moment. If it's valid then show proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPonder Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, SpicyDinosaur said: show me. You are making the claim that I have never heard anything about until this very moment. If it's valid then show proof. I think at least another 3 people said what I said a little different in this same topic. Edited April 13, 2020 by MPonder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpicyDinosaur Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 Oh god you linked me to maths. 😞 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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