Opinions on a mod that changes weapons ammo to battery mode?

[Zahnrad]

I've had a mod idea in my head for a while now. Warframe seems to be slowly introducing more weapons that work on a recharging battery system, I understand it wouldn't make the most sense for example, say a Karak to recharge its magazine but what about if DE introduced a mod for primaries and secondaries that allowed them to go from ammo pickups to recharging ammo? Allowing weapons to be completely self sustaining and never running out of ammo, at the cost of no reserve ammo and wait times instead.

It's something I think would be interesting, and a viable alternative to ammo mutation. But I'm not sure how exactly one would go about balancing it as many of the existing battery weapons seem to recharge insanely fast. Faster than reloads fast even.

[o0Despair0o]

Bad idea.

 

I mean, the only weapons in this game that have even a slight chance of actually running out of ammo are bows and maybe 2-3 rifles.

[Drachnyn]

So like pax charge but as a mod? Would you have it be an exilus mod?

[Zahnrad]

Just now, Drachnyn said:

So like pax charge but as a mod? Would you have it be an exilus mod?

As a player I would want it as an Exilus, but I don't think it would be the best of decisions if that was the case as it might become mandatory on every build. I'd much rather have others put their opinions on the exilus idea.

[Lutesque]

I don't see why not... Its not broken, seems like something people would use... but most importantly... having it on would actually feel like you've Modified your weapon ! 

Like seriously when was the last time a Mod actually changed your weapon's Functionality rather than just made it deal more/less damage. We don't have enough of those. Totally on board with this idea.... BTW Battery weapons Reload even whilest Holstered so you could your Secondary to maintain offense while your Primary recharge 😉 .

[lukinu_u]

The idea is interesting but would need a bit more to really be useful and functionnal.

First of all, as stated by someone else, really few weapons can actually run out of ammo outside of 1h+ runs. Not running out of ammo can be useful with some specific builds using fire rate on ammo hungry weapons to boost your DPS, but very few of them would still run of ammo this way.
Next, conclave reload mods and Synth set (which perform the same) exists and some are Exilus while other are usable on pet. It mean you can completely negate reload time if you swich weapons or use melee, simply by using slots on your pet or exilus.

Overall, it mean very few weapons would really benefit from the ammo to battery conversion.
A simple solution would be a non-exilus mod, changing the weapon from ammo to battery with other effect as well. Here are a few examples of possibilities :

• Weapon use a battery instead of ammo with 250% of the magazine (affected by mod) as ammo pool.
• Weapon use a battery instead of ammo and damage is affected by remaining ammo. Damage linerally grow from 70% to 130% as the magazine is depleting.
• Weapon use a battery instead of ammo. On magazine depletion : knockdown enemies is a 5m radius and inflict a random status effect from the weapon.
• Warframe mod : All weapons use battery instead of ammo and holster speed is increased by 200%.

[(NSW)Greybones]

I’m all for having some fun thought experiments surrounding additions that don’t push the META but can simply give alternative options.

Hmm. If ammo reserves are no longer a problem, that potentially means we’ll have ammo lying around on the ground, right?

Could something be done with that ammo to add additional functionality to the mod? Perhaps like an overcharge mechanic. Not quite a buff though, since the player could accidentally pick up ammo when not wanting to when flying around in fast-paced combat. An alternate fire option that grants explosive radius around player for each built up charge sounds neat, though.

Or maybe a synergy with squadmates 🤔 No longer needing the ammo pickups, the ammo could be split amongst teammates

Edited April 28, 2020 by (NSW)Greybones

[trst]

Since most weapons don't have ammo issues until enemy levels start to outscale your damage and you would be trading damage for infinite ammo it sounds a bit counterproductive. But because of that it doesn't seem like it would be that op especially since there is still mutation mods, Carrier, and ammo restores. That is so long as it doesn't make them work like the Shedu where you have zero downtime with a low enough fire rate.

The only case I can see it being a problem is for really low ammo weapons like the Bramma or Kuva Seer but if recharge speed/delay scaled with both max ammo and reload speed it might balance out.

[(PSN)Shelneroth]

This is kind of in game already with the synth mod set. Set bonus gradually reloads your unequiped gun. I use it all the time because I hate reloading. Your idea would be a welcome alternative.

[saghzs]

I love battery weapons, use pax charge on every kitgun and the holster reload mods on a couple other guns.

But it would have to be compatible with the pexilus slot.
If it isn't, nobody's gonna use it.
95% of builds just don't have free space for a mod like that.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

could be viable, but the question is whether or not it would be too powerful to be made into an Exilus mod. if not, some people may struggle to fit it on their builds without losing substantial damage.

personally I'm fine with magazines as long as the reload time is reasonable: anything more than 3 seconds is too long IMO,. and I would only want a 3 second reload to balance an extremely powerful, very high capacity weapon. 

[Zahnrad]

I've been trying to think of weapons that'd really benefit from it. So far I'm thinking of Launcher or Explosive weapons and the Kohm.

[(NSW)Quarky]

Isn't that more or less the ammo mutations, OP? I think your idea is strictly superior to ammo mutations, though. I want. I do love my ammo recharge mechanic weapons :3

DE, exilus plz and ty 4 ur hard wurkz

12 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

-snip-

HMM WHAT TO DO WITH ALL THOSE AMMO DROPS?!?! HMMMMM?!?!

Explosive legerdemain my man.

Edited April 28, 2020 by (NSW)Quarky

[(NSW)Greybones]

2 minutes ago, (NSW)Quarky said:

Explosive legerdemain my man.

Did you need to misquote me so aggressively? 😞 Just trying to have some fun and show my thinking, is all. I can trim it back if it bothers you so much

Edited April 28, 2020 by (NSW)Greybones

[(NSW)Quarky]

Just now, (NSW)Greybones said:

Did you need to misquote me so aggressively? 😞 Just trying to have some fun and show my thinking, is all

Actually yes, I had a good time interpreting your musings. If you were offended, well that sucks for you.

[(NSW)Greybones]

7 hours ago, (NSW)Quarky said:

Actually yes, I had a good time interpreting your musings. If you were offended, well that sucks for you.

I see

edit: Sorry for the brief off tangent, OP. Back on topic now!

Edited April 28, 2020 by (NSW)Greybones

[Zahnrad]

Out of all my threads I've made as a result of passing ideas, this is probably my favourite concept I've had. I can't stop thinking about all the weapons I'd love to try out with it.

[Lutesque]

9 hours ago, (NSW)Quarky said:

Actually yes, I had a good time interpreting your musings. If you were offended, well that sucks for you.

Shame !!!

 

[Zahnrad]

22 hours ago, lukinu_u said:

• Weapon use a battery instead of ammo with 250% of the magazine (affected by mod) as ammo pool.
• Weapon use a battery instead of ammo and damage is affected by remaining ammo. Damage linerally grow from 70% to 130% as the magazine is depleting.
• Weapon use a battery instead of ammo. On magazine depletion : knockdown enemies is a 5m radius and inflict a random status effect from the weapon.
• Warframe mod : All weapons use battery instead of ammo and holster speed is increased by 200%.

If you don't mind me asking, would these be stackable? The first and last suggestion interest me the most.

[(PSN)thowed]

Kohm and acceltra  are foaming at the mouth right now.

[Lutesque]

22 hours ago, lukinu_u said:

Warframe mod : All weapons use battery instead of ammo and holster speed is increased by 200%.

This maybe more powerful than Vigorous Swap on Holistic Builds/Loadouts. Imagine being able to Fire the Pox then switching to your Melee/Primary so Fast that its basically just like using a single weapon.... The Battery feature isn't even a factor here... just the Holster Speed by itself seems good... having Unlimited Ammo on the Pox would merely be a Bonus (I think you could only fire it 24 Times before you were completely empty)

[lukinu_u]

il y a une heure, Zahnny a dit :

If you don't mind me asking, would these be stackable? The first and last suggestion interest me the most.

I don't know, that's juste some spare ideas and didn't though about adding all of them in the game, only one that would be the single battery conversion mod (with variant for each weapon type). To be honest I don't know, let you using multiple ones at the cost of loosing half or the mod purpose (because you already get the battery thing from the other one) open some interesting possibilities, but it's a bit weird to stack a unique gameplay changing feature a bit like you can't use Shattering Justice on the Vaykor to avoid getting 2 time the Justice buff on the same weapon.
 

il y a 3 minutes, Lutesque a dit :

This maybe more powerful than Vigorous Swap on Holistic Builds/Loadouts. Imagine being able to Fire the Pox then switching to your Melee/Primary so Fast that its basically just like using a single weapon.... The Battery feature isn't even a factor here... just the Holster Speed by itself seems good... having Unlimited Ammo on the Pox would merely be a Bonus (I think you could only fire it 24 Times before you were completely empty)

The idea was to make a non-exilus (so stronger) variant of Synth Reflex but yes, +200% might be a bit to strong.
About the Pox, the battery would use the magazine as ammo pool so Pox would only shoot 4 time, not 24.

Vigorous Swap is just bad though, because the +165% is additive with base damage mods and it's not exilus, so it's just a weaker version of Synth Reflex. I honestly think the mod should be changed from +165% additionnal base damge to +20-30% multiplicative damage increase to be meaningful (and same goes for weapon amp Auras).

[Lutesque]

Just now, lukinu_u said:

The idea was to make a non-exilus (so stronger) variant of Synth Reflex but yes, +200% might be a bit to strong.
About the Pox, the battery would use the magazine as ammo pool so Pox would only shoot 4 time, not 24.

Yeah my bad... I meant to say 24 in Total (Since you'l have 4 In the Magazine to Start before you go into your 20 Reserve Shots)... I just didn't English it Properly.

2 minutes ago, lukinu_u said:

Vigorous Swap is just bad though, because the +165% is additive with base damage mods and it's not exilus, so it's just a weaker version of Synth Reflex. I honestly think the mod should be changed from +165% additionnal base damge to +20-30% multiplicative damage increase to be meaningful (and same goes for weapon amp Auras).

Perfectly True... But if you're using Inaros what other Mods are you going to use ? The Whole Vigurous Swap thing only Started gaining small popularity when the Profit Taker fight came out, with the whole No Warframe Ability Allowed Design. Sure you could use Chroma for Speed but Inaros was great for Comfort and Vigorous Swap was a No Brainer since you have Mod Slots to spare if you can't use your Abilities. Since then I've been using it in Warframes who could spare a Slot and honestly couldnt think of anything better to fit in there. Nezha was one of them, I think I used it on my Loki when I wasn't using a Disarm Build. Gara was another one. 

Whats the name of that Synth Mod that Increases Holster Speed ? Synth Reflex ? Yeah thats what I would use if I Intended to be serious purely because It fits nicely in the Exilus Slot where Vigorous Swap doesn't.

In any case... if they use your idea and offer 200% Holster Speed... Im Taking It 😄 !!!!

[Bacl]

 I would see this only on the Arch weapons and you would have to give away something in return like the Archgun taking both primary and secondary slot.

Currently most Arcguns are weaker than what you can equip on either primary or secondary slot, the Larkspur being the exception, that thing rocks! So having that class with its upside being battery style ammo would be quite cool.

The Shedu did open the door for it like Scott said but it should be on only a certain class of weapons and a drawback need to be implemented as well. The Shedu is great and i think it might be a tad too good utility wise but with the Basmu, they are both Sentient weapons so thats their gimmick.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Bacl

[lukinu_u]

il y a 4 minutes, Lutesque a dit :

Yeah my bad... I meant to say 24 in Total (Since you'l have 4 In the Magazine to Start before you go into your 20 Reserve Shots)... I just didn't English it Properly.

I think you didn't understand. With the ammo to battery conversion, your total ammo pool would be based on the magazine and not max ammo. So converting Pox from ammo to battery would use the magazine (so 4) as the ammo pool, unless you use the specific battery conversion mod that use 250% of the magazine, or bump the reserve with magazine size mod.
Using the magazine size as ammo reserve when converting to battery sounds like a great balance and give advantage to large magazine weapons like Quellor, Supra, Kohm etc... while not making the conversion too stromg on low magazine weapons like Tigris or Zarr.
 

il y a 10 minutes, Lutesque a dit :

Perfectly True... But if you're using Inaros what other Mods are you going to use ? The Whole Vigurous Swap thing only Started gaining small popularity when the Profit Taker fight came out, with the whole No Warframe Ability Allowed Design. Sure you could use Chroma for Speed but Inaros was great for Comfort and Vigorous Swap was a No Brainer since you have Mod Slots to spare if you can't use your Abilities. Since then I've been using it in Warframes who could spare a Slot and honestly couldnt think of anything better to fit in there. Nezha was one of them, I think I used it on my Loki when I wasn't using a Disarm Build. Gara was another one. 

Whats the name of that Synth Mod that Increases Holster Speed ? Synth Reflex ? Yeah thats what I would use if I Intended to be serious purely because It fits nicely in the Exilus Slot where Vigorous Swap doesn't.

I rarely have spare slots in my builds, so I can't really tell.

I've been using Vigorous swap for my Volt solo Eidolon build with neg crit Vasto, but the +165% was not really meaningful on top of the +220 from Hornet Strike and +120% from Arcane Precision, a little 37% increase.
I'm using Synth Reflex a bit more though, for Profit Taker mainly and a few other builds that rely on both primary and secondary (since I already have 2 Synth on my pet for magazine regen). Sadly I love bullet jump mods too much, I rarely have the exilus slot vacant for other stuff.