Pablo acknowledges why better AI alone will not be enough for good difficulty in WF: We need to be nerfed first

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, (XB1)WafflyLearner89 said:

I like your ideas. Additionally, maybe nulls could be redone to rather being a big bubble that deactivates abilities, could be a guy that provides personal shields for enemies within range which makes them immune to our powers. This way, it does not outright disable our powers, rather make it that we need to use other weapons or find the null dude.

 

This is a clever idea. 

Agree 100%

That is a smart solution. Some technologies or fields deactivate War Frame 'elemental powers' or certain abilities of the tool kit. Some enemies places devices that deactivates those abilities. For example Equinox AoE, Saryn AoE, Limbo Stasis. These devices could be destroyed by primaries, heavies or melee weapons. Enemies keep bringing them back with thicker shields and tougher guards on these. The game doesn't need to be balanced. It continues as is. Frames remains with their powers untouched however enemies bring devices that deactivates all War Frame powers for a short period of time making them vulnerable. 

This makes more sense lore wise. The team of military engineers and the corpus found ways to turn off these abilities with containment fields that each team devised. Both teams researched Orokin archives and understood how to stop temporary the War Frames. If you want to remain with your power fantasy roll then you have to MOVE and destroy or deactivate these containment fields on the levels. Some spy frames are not affected so team work is encouraged. Harder levels imply mobile troops with smaller devices in numbers making harsher conditions for the War frames. 

 

 

Bingo. 

[Felsagger]

 

These are drill devices. Grineer can bring in similar devices that nullify all war frame abilities analogous to these. 

Smaller troops can carry similar devices like these in their back. 

The problem was already solved but not implemented. I think we are getting a fair solution to this conundrum with a very effective implementation that doesn't require much effort. Almost everything is there. Enemies can have area of effect devices that works against us. 

 

Problem solved, partially. 

 

[Aadi880]

4 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

This makes more sense lore wise. The team of military engineers and the corpus found ways to turn off these abilities with containment fields that each team devised. Both teams researched Orokin archives and understood how to stop temporary the War Frames. If you want to remain with your power fantasy roll then you have to MOVE and destroy or deactivate these containment fields on the levels.

So its like a nullifier, but a very very big bubble, and probably hiding in some corner?

 

You know, we could also bring back the nightwatch enemies. Those had some fairly decent AI compared to the rest.

[SneakyErvin]

3 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

These are drill devices. Grineer can bring in similar devices that nullify all war frame abilities analogous to these. 

Smaller troops can carry similar devices like these in their back. 

 

The problem was already solved but not implemented. I think we are getting a fair solution to this conundrum with a very effective implementation that doesn't require much effort. Almost everything is there. Enemies can have area of effect devices that works against us. 

 

Problem solved, partially. 

 

But what would make it different than nullifiers? How would static units help in any way when mobile units like the nulli are already insta killed? The static generator would be just as weak and it wouldnt come with a lanka that can inflict serious pain if you arent moving.

We'd need a unit similar to the arbi drone, but something that only effect offensive powers and not weapons, in return it would need to be killed through hitting a weakspot with either a single target weapon or a melee attack. This would also mean it could cover a far greater range since you'd be able to kill the enemies protected by it with your weapons anyway. Aside from that we'd need a denial unit that is fast, the speed of the dog days guy with the buff removal of a demo while also locking us out from recasting the skills for 2-3 sec. If we have no active buffs that get removed, there will be no CD either. Same deal there, give it a possible weakpoint that needs to be hit but make it possible to CC. So if units combine well the fast guy will be immune to CC thanks to the shielder, so people will need to rely on weakpoint targeting to take it down or use parkour to avoid it.

Outside of that, just keep the nullifiers and expand them to other races, same deal with the scrambus and denial bursa.

[Corvid]

27 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

 

You know, we could also bring back the nightwatch enemies. Those had some fairly decent AI compared to the rest.

They didn't, actually. They just had better weapons and we weren't quite as overpowered.

That said, I do also want them back.

[Felsagger]

33 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

So its like a nullifier, but a very very big bubble, and probably hiding in some corner?

 

You know, we could also bring back the nightwatch enemies. Those had some fairly decent AI compared to the rest.

True. 

 

Doesn't have to be a bubble, more of a field that covers large areas. A device that requires six soldiers to lift, transport and place whenever needed. Bigger troops brings battery like devices that has a smaller area of effect like the Limbo stasis. A gentle graphic gesture shows the sphere with some dot particles when an enemy carries one of these null devices. 

 

Lotus inform of these devices where the player can locate. However destroying these devices alerts more guards asking for replacements. The enemy will get the strategy of area off effect forcing the War Frame come close to them and engage. The solution is very simple and feasible. Doesn't requires thousands of man hours for the implementation. 

 

We get what we want while they focus more on A.I. level design and better enemies. This partial solution ameliorate the problem for them and for us. Instead of permanent downgrades on war frames, enemies have these counter measures. Problem solved. 

[Felsagger]

28 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

But what would make it different than nullifiers? How would static units help in any way when mobile units like the nulli are already insta killed? The static generator would be just as weak and it wouldnt come with a lanka that can inflict serious pain if you arent moving.

Answer:

1. Nulls are small bubbles. These are fields. They cover wide regions of the map. 

2. Containment units don't expose themselves to shots they get near while the rest of the platoon attack the War frames. Few heavy soldiers will provide cover for the smaller units with these devices. 

3. Static generators are transportable. They will require heavy punishment due to their thick armor in the device. If they are destroyed, troops asks for more but during that time you have the advantage. 

 

Quote

We'd need a unit similar to the arbi drone, but something that only effect offensive powers and not weapons, in return it would need to be killed through hitting a weakspot with either a single target weapon or a melee attack. This would also mean it could cover a far greater range since you'd be able to kill the enemies protected by it with your weapons anyway. Aside from that we'd need a denial unit that is fast, the speed of the dog days guy with the buff removal of a demo while also locking us out from recasting the skills for 2-3 sec. If we have no active buffs that get removed, there will be no CD either. Same deal there, give it a possible weakpoint that needs to be hit but make it possible to CC. So if units combine well the fast guy will be immune to CC thanks to the shielder, so people will need to rely on weakpoint targeting to take it down or use parkour to avoid it.

Outside of that, just keep the nullifiers and expand them to other races, same deal with the scrambus and denial bursa.

 

Yes, assets of the game are already built. There are many ways to do this. One could be the flying drones with these fields, some heavy devices that are static in the stage requires more punishment for the destruction. Once destroyed they can't be replaced after certain amount of time with reinforcements. Heavy portable field units are transportable by troops, once destroyed, grineer asks for replacements. They spawn more often and the troops with portable null fields. These troops happens more often in the field. 

 

This problem was already 'almost' solved. 

 

Where this happened before? Law of retribution chemical mixture. That device had bleed out damage. Why not do one that cancel out all War Frame powers. 

Edited May 26, 2020 by Felsagger

[Urlan]

1 hour ago, Felsagger said:

Answer:

1. Nulls are small bubbles. These are fields. They cover wide regions of the map. 

2. Containment units don't expose themselves to shots they get near while the rest of the platoon attack the War frames. Few heavy soldiers will provide cover for the smaller units with these devices. 

3. Static generators are transportable. They will require heavy punishment due to their thick armor in the device. If they are destroyed, troops asks for more but during that time you have the advantage. 

Yes, assets of the game are already built. There are many ways to do this. One could be the flying drones with these fields, some heavy devices that are static in the stage requires more punishment for the destruction. Once destroyed they can't be replaced after certain amount of time with reinforcements. Heavy portable field units are transportable by troops, once destroyed, grineer asks for replacements. They spawn more often and the troops with portable null fields. These troops happens more often in the field. 

 

This problem was already 'almost' solved. 

 

Where this happened before? Law of retribution chemical mixture. That device had bleed out damage. Why not do one that cancel out all War Frame powers. 

Powers are not really the issue, they are the feature of the game but that said; this current diversion on Nullifiers; they and Sapping Osprey were designed and championed by DE Pablo. And one doesn't need to create wholesale new versions for the Grineer, that was done for Nightmare Law of  Retribution which had the explanation that Grineer had captured lots of the equipment overtime and while they didn't completely understand it enough for fullscale use, Hek had authorized it being attached to specialized Propaganda Drones for helping annoy folk hitting his Nightmare Trial.

[SneakyErvin]

14 hours ago, Felsagger said:

Answer:

1. Nulls are small bubbles. These are fields. They cover wide regions of the map. 

2. Containment units don't expose themselves to shots they get near while the rest of the platoon attack the War frames. Few heavy soldiers will provide cover for the smaller units with these devices. 

3. Static generators are transportable. They will require heavy punishment due to their thick armor in the device. If they are destroyed, troops asks for more but during that time you have the advantage. 

 

 

Yes, assets of the game are already built. There are many ways to do this. One could be the flying drones with these fields, some heavy devices that are static in the stage requires more punishment for the destruction. Once destroyed they can't be replaced after certain amount of time with reinforcements. Heavy portable field units are transportable by troops, once destroyed, grineer asks for replacements. They spawn more often and the troops with portable null fields. These troops happens more often in the field. 

 

This problem was already 'almost' solved. 

 

Where this happened before? Law of retribution chemical mixture. That device had bleed out damage. Why not do one that cancel out all War Frame powers. 

So just more things that makes it less about WFs and more about just weapons instead of balancing a handful of actual outlier frames. Nullifiers were already seen as a cheap solution, adding more types of the same mechanic is not a solution. Arbi drones worked since they were different, the downsides are that they are too easy to kill, which is easily fixed by not being able to just AoE them to death aswell as them dying and taking all shielded mobs with them. It has still be the best approach to hinder us, far better than nulls. So I'd rather see the mechanics of the drones, demolysts and denial bursas getting expanded on as opposed to the cheap "solution" that is the null mechanic.

Massive null fields would just push us into an even more narrow meta composed of high HP frames that dont need their abilities and AoE weapons/melee. You'd have a meta consisting of Inaros, Atlas, Grendel, Hildryn and Khora pretty much, frames that can just ignore their active abilities and still retain high eHP and sustain while mowing through things with a melee or AoE gun. All in order to "fix" 5 other frames instead of simply just fixing them.

What we need are different types of units that punish different types of frames. So X is useful to help Y clear something that blocks its powers, while also having something that keeps X on its toes so it doesnt get stripped of crucial buffs. Just as we would need something that is punishing towards the high eHP frames, possibly something like a healing preventor, like mortal strike (-50% healing) or scourge strike (absorbs up to X amount of incoming healing) from WoW. A single type of mechanic like the null would not solve those things and it would not treat frames at all on a remotely equal level. The nulls work as they are, they just need to be given to each faction, but we dont need the mechanic expanded to other things, we need new and properly balanced ones.

[TheGodofWiFi]

I’m sitting here looking at all these people who so desperately want to turn Warframe into something its not and I have two questions that continuously pop-up in my mind;

1. If you guys like a challenge, why don’t you just remove all the mods from your builds and play that way?

2. Why are you even bothering to play Warframe if you want a challenge? There are a lot of other games out there that give a good controller-smashing challenge experience. Yes I understand you like Warframe’s style, but you need to accept that you can’t have your cake and eat it. Accept the game for what it is.

Warframe is a power fantasy game. Its purely meant to be played to relax and allow you to just feel like an overpowered God. I honestly do not understand the people who want to turn it into just another boring semi-challenging shooter experience. If you want challenge guys, go and get it somewhere else. Not everything needs to be the same and Warframe is a unique gem in the fact it allows you to experience a lot of power. Its a game meant to allow you to chill out.

Also, to those who say that power becomes boring after a while; so what? When people get bored of the game, they leave and play another one for a bit. Once they’ve have had enough of that game, they come back to Warframe with renewed enthusiasm. This game has been around for seven years now. Its a formula that works. Any game, no matter what its difficulty level will eventually become boring if you play it often enough, so changing the difficulty and the fundamentals of what makes Warframe a literal blast, will not permanently relive the boredom/burnout. If anything, the majority will be highly annoyed that the game has just been turned into another somewhat above average third person shooter like so many other games of that type and simply abandon the game since it no longer has that unique escapist power fantasy.

At the end of the day, it comes down to what you personally want from a game. If one game isn’t what you want it to be, then simply go and find one that is. And likewise if you get bored of the game, go and play something else until you get bored of that and come back to WF again.

We do not need to keep turning games into other types of games. Its unnecessary and quite frankly detrimental practice to the diversity of gaming as whole.

Edited May 27, 2020 by TheGodofWiFi

[SneakyErvin]

3 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

I’m sitting here looking at all these people who so desperately want to turn Warframe into something its not and I have two questions that continuously pop-up in my mind;

1. If you guys like a challenge, why don’t you just remove all the mods from your builds and play that way?

2. Why are you even bothering to play Warframe if you want a challenge? There are a lot of other games out there that give a good controller-smashing challenge experience.

Warframe is a power fantasy game. Its purely meant to be played to relax and allow you to just feel like an overpowered God.

Nothing wrong with adding challenging content aswell. No one is forced into it afterall.

Warframe may be a power fantasy game, but it is a misconception to think it means what you stated in your post. You dont need to be able to Thanos snap everything in order for it to be a power fantasy, there is no need to have an imbalanced game in order for it to be a power fantasy. A power fantasy simply means you play something extraordinary compared to the overall enemies you face in a game, where some may even be as powerful as you. Most superhero games are power fantasies since you beat up mucks and goons mostly, but most of them also have real nemesis encounters where you face other superpowered enemies that may even be stronger than you.

[General-Pacman]

I've been reading this thread from time to time, and the discussion has been quite interesting. It's actually great to see 50+ pages of actual debate without the thread being derailed (except for some minor cases), so kudos to everyone involved.

My opinion on this is pessimistic, however. I've learned a long time ago to stop coming to Warframe expecting any form of challenge. This game has a ton of potential to generate challenging content, but the development over the years has always been catered to casual players, and I feel like those players have been the majority for quite a long time; so, I keep coming to Warframe to chill, but when I want to engage in any form of hard or challenging content, I go somewhere else. 
It's great seeing people coming with so many suggestions on how to add harder gameplay, but I won't get my hopes up any more.

Edited May 27, 2020 by General-Pacman
grammar sucks

[TheGodofWiFi]

19 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Nothing wrong with adding challenging content aswell.

Never said there was. The thing is that in Warframe there is very little that is an actual challenge. Its a game of extremes. You either have enemies who are easy to kill in droves or enemies that are slightly more annoying to kill.

The only real thing that makes an enemy a challenge is whether or not they have an invulnerability stage and/or cancel out most of our abilities, because we simply do far too much damage for any sort of middle-ground to exist. As Pablo said; its pointless to try and follow other games in terms of challenging/smart AI for enemies and such, because at the end of the day we’re still going to blow them to bits with one shot.

And you know what, thats great. No other kind of game offers that kind of power. Its what makes WF unique.

19 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

You dont need to be able to Thanos snap everything in order for it to be a power fantasy

I agree, but that doesn’t mean having that kind of power is bad either. Not every power fantasy needs to be the same.

19 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Most superhero games are power fantasies since you beat up mucks and goons mostly, but most of them also have real nemesis encounters where you face other superpowered enemies that may even be stronger than you.

Again, why does that mean Warframe needs to be the same as your average superhero game?

This is the thing I just don’t understand. People seem to think that Warframe needs to be like every other power fantasy, where balance is considered. Why does it need to be that way when there are already so many other games out there like that already?

I honestly do not understand why people are so down on Warframe being the way it is. Its supposed to be a chill out game you can play when you literally just want to play a game without caring too much. There is definitely room for that in an industry as homogeneous as this, where we get yearly churned out sequels of the same thing and where most game developers are trying to ape other popular games.

Edited May 27, 2020 by TheGodofWiFi

[Felsagger]

1 minute ago, General-Pacman said:

I've been reading this thread from time to time, and the discussion has been quite interesting. It's actually great to see 50+ pages of actual debate without the thred being derailed (except for some minor cases), so kudos to everyone involved.

My opinion on this is pessimistic, however. I've learn a long time ago to stop coming to Warframe expecting any form of challenge. This game has a ton of potential to generate challenging content, but the development over the years has always been catered to casual players, and I feel like those players have been the majority for quite a long time; so, I keep coming to Warframe to chill, but when I want to engage in any form of hard or challenging content, I go somewhere else. 
It's great seeing people coming with so many suggestions on how to add harder gameplay, but I won't get my hopes up any more.

 

That's logical thinking and the simplest way to deal with the problem effectively. 

 

I seek challenge somewhere else. This GAAS F2p game ran its course. If it gets few more years better. For challenge I play Titan Fall 2 frontier for serious team play. Serious challenge happens in Sekiro, Demon Souls, Dark Souls 3, Blood Borne. For mild fun the game Monster Hunter Ice Borne does a good job. At this stage DE should wrap things up fixing the bugs in the game surviving few more years. My money of course will be towards a PS5, few more games like Cyberpunk 77 and Tsushima. 

Caring too much for this game can turn hair white with all the concerns the game has. I simply receive what DE provides. If their offering worth more hours of play, I'll see what's up. If not, get busy with other games. Besides the problem is already solved. A.I. is not enough for this game. Simple solutions abounds like AoE power cancellation destructible generators or portable fields with large extensions carried by the troops. DE knows already how to deal with the solution. 

[Felsagger]

2 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Never said there was. The thing is that in Warframe there is very little that is an actual challenge. Its a game of extremes. You either have enemies who are easy to kill in droves or enemies that are slightly more annoying to kill.

 

 

This man perfectly resumes War Frame. 

 

Well, it's a game dome by Digital Extremes.....(Pun intended) ^^

[DeMonkey]

7 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Again, why does that mean Warframe needs to be the same as your average superhero game?

How does referring to how another type of "power fantasy" game handles enemies, rather generically I might add, even remotely suggest that Warframe "needs to be the same as your average superhero game".

This is why you're having trouble understanding, it's not what we're saying, it's the predisposition you have towards our posts.

7 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

People seem to think that Warframe needs to be like every other power fantasy, where balance is considered.

But not half an hour ago people were arguing that because it's a power fantasy, balance shouldn't be considered.

33 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Warframe is a power fantasy game. Its purely meant to be played to relax and allow you to just feel like an overpowered God

Here's an example of such from... you.

7 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

There is definitely room for that in an industry as homogeneous as this

Nah, that market niche has already been cornered.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/363970/Clicker_Heroes/

Edited May 27, 2020 by DeMonkey

[Zimzala]

1 minute ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

This is the thing I just don’t understand. People seem to think that Warframe needs to be like every other power fantasy, where balance is considered. Why does it need to be that way when there are already so many other games out there like that already?

I honestly do not understand why people are so down on Warframe being the way it is. Its supposed to be a chill out game you can play when you literally just want to play a game without caring too much. There is definitely room for that in an industry as homogeneous as this, where we get yearly churned out sequels of the same thing.

IMO, because many people just don't like for things to be different.

WF offers a specific alternative to the current landscape of GaaS games that appeals to a lot of gamers.

Somehow, in the eyes of some gamers, this is somehow 'bad' ... because 'reasons'...

I play this game because of the chaos, the changes, the unpredictable, the relaxing pixel killing, and the dopamine of collecting stuff...I play WF for what WF is.

When I want a challenge, I work. Seriously, when I want to be challeged in life, I do more work in the real world.

When I want entertainment, I prefer interactive entertainment like games. I play games to be entertained, not challenged.

I have yet to actually see any challenges in games anyway - it's herding players to do the right dance, mashing the buttons fast enough, in the right order, or both - spend a little time, boom, everyone has the new Uber Item of Uberness. Challenges in a video game of this nature are simply hand-eye dance routines at best, which is pretty much like learning a job skill, IME, and I would rather get real return for working.

[Corvid]

1 minute ago, DeMonkey said:

This is why you're having trouble understanding, it's not what we're saying, it's the predisposition you have towards our posts.

This, a thousand times this. I'm getting sick of people saying that we want to change Warframe into something it isn't.

As I've said before, we want Warframe to be Warframe, not "Mindless 1-button AOE Spam: The Game". Because believe it or not, Warframe wasn't always this unbalanced.

And no, the dev interviews don't say they're happy with what the game has become. They've outright stated that its current state inhibits their ability to make new gameplay interesting.

[TheGodofWiFi]

18 minutes ago, Corvid said:

As I've said before, we want Warframe to be Warframe, not "Mindless 1-button AOE Spam: The Game". Because believe it or not, Warframe wasn't always this unbalanced.

So what you are saying is you basically want Warframe to be 2013 Warframe, back when it was a barely average third-person shooter that was struggling to find a decent playerbase, so much so that they had to promote an exclusive deal just to stay afloat.

That time has long passed and the game has evolved into a lot more. So yes you are asking Warframe to be something its not and has not been for nearly a decade.

Yes the game is unbalanced, but again; so what? If you want balance there are so many games out that can offer that to you. Warframe has found its niche in being a God simulator and that is how it is staying. Its never going to go back to how it was and that is perfectly fine. The whole reason the game is popular is because it has changed so much in such good ways.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with standing out for just being a truly completely overpowered God simulator in an industry that is so similar and always cares about balance.

Edited May 27, 2020 by TheGodofWiFi

[Aadi880]

19 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Warframe is a power fantasy game. Its purely meant to be played to relax and allow you to just feel like an overpowered God. I honestly do not understand the people who want to turn it into just another boring semi-challenging shooter experience. If you want challenge guys, go and get it somewhere else. Not everything needs to be the same and Warframe is a unique gem in the fact it allows you to experience a lot of power. Its a game meant to allow you to chill out.

 

10 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Warframe may be a power fantasy game, but it is a misconception to think it means what you stated in your post. You dont need to be able to Thanos snap everything in order for it to be a power fantasy, there is no need to have an imbalanced game in order for it to be a power fantasy. A power fantasy simply means you play something extraordinary compared to the overall enemies you face in a game, where some may even be as powerful as you. Most superhero games are power fantasies since you beat up mucks and goons mostly, but most of them also have real nemesis encounters where you face other superpowered enemies that may even be stronger than you.

 

Not important here, just my opinion:
If I were to be completely honest, warframe can no longer be called a power fantasy game. Its a megalomanic's game. Balance is completely out the window. 
None-Important opinion over.

 

Pablo has made it clear. They want to keep power fantasy, and NOBODY disagrees with it, not even those who seek challenge. Pablo has also made it clear, and so has the entirety of DE at the past years, that the Devs despise a state where players can just stay in one spot and do absolutely nothing to win other than pressing a single button. DE cannot make content for this type of megalomania. This starts a downward spiral of multiple failed content updates when DE has to resort to, I dare say, bullet sponges and is doing simply nothing but wasting time to artificially increase playtime of an update.

Here's the important part:

Lets think about this for DE. What content can they make that will retain players? WHY would players even bother with that content? Just a new weapon? some MR points? Those will be pointless when the players reaches MR 30. 

Fun? What would be considered "fun" for a megalomanic? Killing hordes of enemies whilst pressing a button inside a single room?

1 minute ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Yes the game is unbalanced, but again; so what?

The real problem is sustainability. DE wants to achieve sustainability (every private or public or third sector organization does), being able to make content whilst the players are enjoying existing ones. The longer player stays, the more profits DE can get to continue development, cycle continues, DE's happy, player's happy.

But if you complete the content in a single day (extreme example, realistically, its like a week), what will DE do? They have to force players to wait weeks for the next update. Players get bored, or find themselves nothing to do, and takes a break. Player retention has failed. DE makes less money. DE does not want to make their playerbase wait. (Trust me, no developer likes it when their customers are forced to wait). Less money results in less capital on development, and content gets rushed, comes out buggy. The vicious cycle repeats.

This has already happened. Failure of the Old Blood update caused another failure in the Rising Tide update, which carried on to the Empyrean update. Notice playtime on ALL of these was increased by giving extreme costs (Rising Tide), or giving bullet sponges (Empyrean), or by giving wait times (Rising Tide), or by using RNG (Kuva lich)

I bet DE realized this, and started revisits, which promptly broke the cycle. And started balance passes.

Unbalanced content is not sustainable, and cannot keep DE to continue developing warframe. DE has said so themselves, they want to find a middle ground, not make it unbalanced.

DE NEEDS you to keep playing, in fact, I'm willing to bet this was one of the reasons to included kuva lich and railjack in nightwave, not just to replace alerts, but make players play content which they otherwise wouldn't. 

[Corvid]

1 minute ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

So what you are saying is you basically want Warframe to be 2013 Warframe, back when it was a barely average third-person shooter that was struggling to find a decent playerbase, so much so that they had to promote an exclusive deal just to stay afloat.

That time has long passed and the game has evolved into a lot more. So yes you are asking Warframe to be something its not and has not been for nearly a decade.

Yes the game is unbalanced, but again; so what? If you want balance there are so many games out that can offer that to you. Warframe has found its niche in being a God simulator and that is how it is staying. Its never going to go back to how it was and that is perfectly fine. The whole reason the game is popular is because it has changed so much in such good ways.

Bit of advice: Never say "So what you are saying". It makes it clear that you're not responding to a person, but to a strawman of your own making.

This might be a hard concept to grasp, but challenge is a spectrum, not a binary state. My opinion, and that of most of the people asking for the game to be more balanced, is that it would be better somewhere between the two extremes.

Also, the game didn't have trouble staying afloat when it came out. It had less players, but that was largely due to a lack of exposure at the time, not problems with the gameplay.

It's also not a very good "God simulator", given how inconsistent the experience is.

[Wearbe]

5 minutes ago, Corvid said:

Bit of advice: Never say "So what you are saying". It makes it clear that you're not responding to a person, but to a strawman of your own making.

This might be a hard concept to grasp, but challenge is a spectrum, not a binary state. My opinion, and that of most of the people asking for the game to be more balanced, is that it would be better somewhere between the two extremes.

Also, the game didn't have trouble staying afloat when it came out. It had less players, but that was largely due to a lack of exposure at the time, not problems with the gameplay.

It's also not a very good "God simulator", given how inconsistent the experience is.

So what you are saying is that you need to phrase your check-for-understanding paraphrasing in terms that are less commonly used so the activity will not elicit negative responses from people who often lose arguments to people who use underdeveloped arguments that are not actually arguments at all? 😜

Edited May 27, 2020 by Wearbe

[Corvid]

3 minutes ago, Wearbe said:

So what you are saying is that you need to phrase your check-for-understanding paraphrasing in terms that are less commonly used so the activity will not elicit negative responses from people who often lose arguments?

Feel free to actually contribute to the discussion without disparaging remarks mate, we'd love to have you.

Edited May 27, 2020 by Corvid

[Wearbe]

Didn't mean to insult (definitely not pointed at you or anyone in particular, but without reference I can see you taking it that way). I just found some really good humor in that. 🙂  Carry on, I'll go back to enjoying in the background.

Edited May 27, 2020 by Wearbe

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

On 2020-05-25 at 11:41 PM, Felsagger said:

 

 A game that constantly receives updates. 

https://forums.warframe.com/forum/3-pc-update-notes/

You said: 

"There's nothing wrong with the level designs, AI or overall game design. "

A game that constantly requires revisions. 

https://forums.warframe.com/forum/11-pc-bugs/

You said:

"There's nothing wrong with the level designs, AI or overall game design. "

A typical game in Frontier Horde mode Titan Fall 2: 

A typical game in ESO War Frame:

A skill based game versus a gear based game

You said:

"There's nothing wrong with the level designs, AI or overall game design. "

Enemy A.I. 

You said:

"There's nothing wrong with the level designs, AI or overall game design. "

Urdak: Doom Eternal. 

Urdak secret rooms. 

Jupiter Gas Giant tileset: 

You said:

"There's nothing wrong with the level designs, AI or overall game design. "

If there nothing wrong with the level design, AI or overall game design then we should not even be here discussing problems of balancing and challenge. We would not be disusing here anything related with difficulty settings, A.I. immersion or any other related topic on these matters. 

Shall I continue? 

Please do!!