Kuva Bramma feedback and Discussion

[(PSN)Apoleon_amarr]

Ok berf it, but let me get max conclave standing first

[SpringRocker]

9 minutes ago, Vharu said:

By this logic as a reason for to nerf something, you would forever be nerfing everything back to zero damage one by one. 

Step 1. Nerf Bramma
Step 2. Oh now some other weapon deals more damage than anything else in the game
Step 3. Nerf next strongest weapon.
Step 4. Repeat step 2.

The weapon is fine, only thing that needs a nerf is your expectations. 

Highest damage weapon, fine. Highest damage weapon that also clears rooms AND is getting another 20% boost again?

Also just because you clipped that sentence doesn't mean my points changed... Here you go because I'm guessing you didn't read it:

 

11 hours ago, SpringRocker said:

Really, it deals more damage than anything else in the game... With self-damage gone (why?) it's the go to weapon for both single damage and AOE.

[akots]

Bramma is tolerable only when there is some way to get away from the spammer. If it is defense or if the spammer is chasing me around, I simply quit. Playing with powered down monitor is less annoying. Seems like DE has done that on purpose. Want to use Bramma, you have to solo then or find your fellow Brama fans for company. They should add more screen shake, more fireworks, and some obnoxious non-customazable color to make sure.

WF needs not only self damage but friendly fire as well, at least in some Nightmare missions. Or at least make Bramma randomly proc radiation on team mates.

[Drachnyn]

One of the few weapons that can compete with melee weapons and people want it nerfed instantly. Have you thought that maybe other guns just need buffs to keep up with Bramma or melee weapons?

[CopperBezel]

We've reached a point where I don't think it's mathematically and biologically possible for hitscan non-AoE weapons to keep up with AoE, melee, and abilities in most content because a player simply can't possibly click on all the heads in a horde of enemies faster than someone can nuke them. The "buff" required would have to be something like aim assist targeting smartguns like a mini Peacemaker.

[CopperBezel]

Mine is definitely fine at 30%. I put a couple of forma in, fewer than with other guns I like but only because of the free extra mod points that come with Kuva weapons.

And part of SpringRocker's point is that the Bramma isn't just the best (again I'm still agnostic and apathetic to the claim itself) but that it's the best for all situations. Those are two different statements. If something is the best at damaging a single heavy, it shouldn't also be the best at clearing a mob of trash enemies. That's just not how Warframe weapons work.

[dota_Icarus]

Single target dmg less than catchmoon? Buddy you sure about that XD

[Uhkretor]

Spoiler

Catchmoon: Kuva Bramma version!

[CopperBezel]

40 minutes ago, dota_Icarus said:

Single target dmg less than catchmoon? Buddy you sure about that XD

Yeah, I can't find a way to make that true. My Catchmoon is built for damage, crit, and reload (Zipneedle and Lovetap). I took the riven off my Catchmoon and tried them both with pretty normal crit hybrid builds against a level 125 Bombard in the Simulacrum, using Corrosive and then using Radiation to try both with and without armor strip. (And I realize that the hybrid build is irrelevant to Radiation but they at least were equally nerfed in this way.) My Bramma has base electric, 30%, so that did at least contribute to both elements, while the Catchmoon's base heat only contributes to Radiation and isn't statistically very good at supporting Corrosive at armor strip.

TTK was significantly faster either way with the Bramma, and I could do it at longer range. I was aiming high, so the Catchmoon should have been getting the crit-headshot bonus (but not the headshot modifier itself, because it's a wave gun.) Bramma's not so good with headshots and mostly splattered in a puddle around him regardless. 

Maybe a speedy status built Catchmoon could kill faster with the armor strip? But in terms of raw damage, it's not in the running. The DPS numbers in the Arsenal look similar, with the Catchmoon dealing half the damage at nearly the same crit chance and a quicker fire rate, but I don't think the radial damage numbers on the Bramma account for the grenades. 

[SpringRocker]

7 hours ago, Vharu said:

No I did read everything, but you haven't refuted what I said. Being the strongest weapon is not enough of a reason to nerf something - there will always be a weapon that is stronger than others. Maybe we just need more difficult enemies, more planets and nodes and another star chart with missions starting with level 150+ enemies.

If enemies start at level 150, the Bramma is dealing the most damage out of all other weapons and is doing so by the area.

Once again, it deals the most single target damage AND it does that damage to an area.

 

7 hours ago, Vharu said:

I'm guessing you either fall into one of these categories...
1. Don't have a Bramma
2. Have a low Elemental Bramma and can't be bother farming higher values
3. Have a bramma but haven't used it much
4. Too attached to some other weapon, can't aim a bramma and rather see it nerfed so what you use is less irrelevant. 
5. Bought your bramma and dont respect the value of time in earning/farming it to max % yourself.

Actually you can put another category:

#6, didn't think it was that powerful until I got one and actually took a look at it and the numbers.

It's overpowered and outclasses everything else, pure and simple.

 

7 hours ago, Vharu said:

Bramma accels due to its AoE only - which is getting a damage adjustment to its radial impact.

I assume you're talking about the changes for weapons with radial damage?

That means increasing it's damage by 20% along with everything, even more damage. It's also a change to ALL explosive weapons.

[GPrime96]

8 hours ago, Drachnyn said:

One of the few weapons that can compete with melee weapons and people want it nerfed instantly. Have you thought that maybe other guns just need buffs to keep up with Bramma or melee weapons?

Something that’s being rarely thought about. The way there’s a very low amount of Primaries that can keep up the Strength of current Melees (Bramma being one of those) and having Secondaries that can perform better than about 90% of Primaries in this Game or have a use as Utility is ridiculous. 

[SpringRocker]

42 minutes ago, Vharu said:

The bramma has most of it's damage in the blast radius section, which is not the initial impact hit. Remove the AoE blast and that bramma ain't hitting harder than the catchmoon...

Are you really trying to tell me that the initial blast blast doesn't count when it's centered on where you hit?

Guy, basic math, come on...

 

38 minutes ago, Vharu said:

Yeah but a radial damage decrease of 50% applied to the outer 50% range of the AoE... you think 20% damage buff to the stats is going to compensate for that? It wont, its going to result in less damage over all. Opticor vandal will have a noticable buff tho, it's AoE is tiny and it shoot strait like a sniper. 

It's still going to have an AOE room clear...

Once again: Highest damage weapon, fine. Highest damage weapon that also clears rooms AND is getting another 20% boost again?

EDIT: Last sentence is talking about how that the damage fallout doesn't make it meaningless, just wanted to point that out.

[SpringRocker]

3 minutes ago, Vharu said:

there is a delay between the initial hit and the radius blast

Nope, I actually checked that just before I posted. It happens on impact.

 

4 minutes ago, Vharu said:

hahaha 😄 look, technically I'm right... there is a delay between the initial hit and the radius blast, and the initial hit does less than the catchmoon.

So now you're arguing that the arrow impact (with the intial blast that's centered on the arrow not counting... for some reason...) deals less damage than the Catchmoon?

If you're not going to even to address the points made, why are you here?

[Liam]

People who ask to get bramma nerfed is

1. Not able or lazy to farm it. 

2. Cant afford buying a lich with one. 

[SpringRocker]

1 hour ago, Vharu said:

What points am I supposed to address? - all I can see is opinions.

1. Most single target damage of any other weapon.
2. Deals the most damage in an AOE than any other weapon.

Those are the main ones. But unless you want to come up with something better than "My Catchmoon does more damage" you're not addressing any of the point:

It outclasses everything else and makes all other weapons trivial.

 

30 minutes ago, --Aegis--Angel said:

People who ask to get bramma nerfed is

1. Not able or lazy to farm it. 

2. Cant afford buying a lich with one. 

3. I thought the Bramma was fine, until I got one and took a look at it. Deals more damage than everything else, has higher single target DPS, and does it to an area.

It outclasses everything else and makes all other weapons trivial.

[TheLexiConArtist]

@SpringRocker Better dig in your heels for the long haul, it took up to 56 pages in a single thread for the Tonkor meta to get its due.

And ignore Vharu, they just build the straw-iest men to argue against. It's ridiculous.

Beaning someone with the inert casing that delivers the explosive payload being considered the only part of the damage to be compared against the (incidentally also AOE) projectile wall from the Catchmoon is the most hilariously misrepresented thing I've heard all week.

[GPrime96]

15 minutes ago, Vharu said:

For low end opposition (to me that means level 100 or below), bramma is going to do pretty good.... but head into the 200+ range and that thing is getting holstered 

This reason right here is why i would only use it with damage buffing Frames than Frames like Equinox which use it separately instead of together. Lvl 300+ Solo Mot, yeah GL reaching that far with Kuva Bramma without Frames like Nova Prime or Garuda, although Mag + Kuva Bramma needs to be fixed. Most useless combination ever for some reason.

[TheLexiConArtist]

1 hour ago, Vharu said:

I am a 'they' ? This guys is just butthurt because I killed his thread. But hey, if you like being told what to do by others, feel free to listen to him.

I neither know nor care whether you're a crazed bloke or a wanton Karen lacking a manager with whom to speak. Either way, you haven't 'killed my thread' anywhere but the fantasy world in your head. Just made a bit of a fool of yourself.

[Miyabi-sama]

Relax dudes. Tonkor 1.0 is nigh.

[SpringRocker]

11 hours ago, Vharu said:

1. Nah, My Cyath melee with heavy attack build does more. In terms of clearing out mobs, the only advantage my Bramma has over it is being able to do things from range. But using my operator dash and some skill, my melee deals more damage, kills things faster. Reasoning being is heavy attacks with machete does forced slash procs, and its a high cc/cd build. Plus the heavy does a 4x hit on single wind up.

There's a reason why they're going back and re-examining melee. They already tried looking into putting in "follow through". Melee was extremely strong on it's own and it still is, they're just taking their time because they don't want to make sudden changes and rein it in too far.

 

11 hours ago, Vharu said:

Think about it, if it really was the best at single target damage, then why isn't it used at 200+ enemy levels? the fire rate and damage just isn't going to cut it - you atleast need a high amount of slash combined with Toxin or Corrosive, and hunter munitions just doesn't cut it. 

And this is all before Armor scaling changes take place. You need Slash to deal True damage for much higher levels, Viral and Corrosive will just reset health and armor if its not re-applied in the DoT duration, so at higher levels you need to kill the thing before that happens. Gas/Toxin/Slash - these are the only damage types that will do the finishing touch unless you strip armor. 

They way you build bramma is either going for Viral, Gas, or Corrosive build - you are not going to get a combination of these. Slash is king, and the Bramma doesn't have any - and one mod for a 30% procs is not good enough compared to proper slash builds.

It still out performs all other non-melee weapons at that level. +200 level enemies? People rarely stay that long, it still does better than every other non-melee weapon.

 

11 hours ago, Vharu said:

Most single target damage in the game? No, you have to specify a range of opposition level. High level you need mure status options, and more status chance to then crit those status procs. Take off multishot and Bramma doesnt really have a great deal of SC. I mean it's good, but it's not going to keep pace with high level mobs aswel as other weapons. Frankly, since melee rework, thats just the nature of primary/secondary weps across the board.

• Imp = 187
• Main explosion = 839
• Bomblet = 187  (x6)
• 1.6x kuva trait

So that's:

• 1641 Single target damage
• 1342 Main explosion
• 299 Per Bomblet
• potential to output 1641 area damage with no mods
• These are pre-mod stats

ALL THIS BEFORE MODS

 

12 hours ago, Vharu said:

Depending how you mod the bramma, you are limited with what damage types it can deal. Blast isn't going to scale, Impact is pretty much useless, hunter munitions is a 30% proc chance for a portion of slash. The only thing this has is either loads of Corrosive or Viral (which reset Armor and health when the DoT proc finishes), or Gas... which on its own will not scale without also stripping armor. You can't have corrosive and gas on it...so this is why Slash is king - negates armor and deals true damage... bramma has no slash. 

Most people dont consider these things because most people leave a mission before they even see level 150+ To them the Bramma is "OP" with no downside... Well go take it into a 3-4 hour survival exclusively and see how you go.

It still performs better than all other non-melee weapons in every class.

[CopperBezel]

17 hours ago, SpringRocker said:

There's a reason why they're going back and re-examining melee. They already tried looking into putting in "follow through". Melee was extremely strong on it's own and it still is, they're just taking their time because they don't want to make sudden changes and rein it in too far.

What they said in the Phase 2 devstream was that Follow Through has been a hidden stat for all melee weapons all along, and they were going to newly make it visible. 

[(XBOX)Yufix4574]

I hate unbalanced weapons, now on warframe you only see people with Bramma who continue to make all enemies disappear instantly while they keep dropping the frame rate and not letting me see anything.

Soon the self damage will be removed, Bramma will become even more unbalanced, the guys who don't know how to use it and die for self damage are the only thing that stops Bramma from destroying the game.

[Castens]

I see people like this complain just about everything !.....u say its broken ! I agree with that, infact I dont think anyone here would say different. But dsnt that apply to everything that is in warframe at the moment ! dnt u feel overpowered by just using anything in the game ? u dnt even need RIVEN mods to go deadly. a simple build with a set of simple mods will make u deadly and kill all sorta challenges....If Bramma is FUN for ppl to use and its basically the same outcome as other weapons (u one hit everything) Then let ppl have fun with the thing u dnt need to be this strict in a PVE oriented Game...ur main focus is to have fun killing AI and feel destructively Powerful doing it..if this was a PVP GAME then yes we would be having this conversation..PS: I have a 55% Toxin Bramma and I dnt even use it !....reason being I dont find it fun...Let the ppl Enjoy their time..dnt be that one dude 😉

[Shy0]

yup, here we go again. you could ask DE to optimise the performance issues or tinker with explosive weapons in general when the self-damage is removed (you can count on explosive weapons being everywhere after that patch, not just the bramma), but nope. bramma too stronk, nerf pl0x. makes me feel like taking my mirage and simulor out again just to annoy people..

seriously though, where will you stop once you start? saryn has way more killing power over a huge area. equinox also has a strong nuke, albeit one that needs charging. nuke mirage is also up there. at least with weapons, you need to aim and land your shots (nearby in explosive cases) instead of just pressing single buttons and wiping entire maps. please just stop with the nerf mentality. so many good weapons were nerfed to the point of uselessness already. at least let the rambow enthusiasts have some fun. it's just a game.

[(PSN)kingbrown2012]

Dev workshop part 2 means they will have to actually aim with the Kuva bramma slightly and no damage buff so therefore thread not needed any longer in my opinion