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Lowering the helminth MR requirements only hurts the playerbase at large.


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I want to say on the record:

I followed all the people crying about the Helminth system and interacting on it.

While it is nice that newer players will have a way to dispose oF frames earlier, it isn't worth sacrificing the gate on this system to give them something to work towards, and furthermore,
NOBODY was crying about that.

What they were crying about were:

-Rhino's roar is too OP (which it's not, it's kinda pointless really, once you one shot stuff you don't need more damage, further, you need 300% strength to have it really be noticeable... not a lot of frames build for that).
-Valkyr is giving away half her kit and I'm salty as a Valk main (I'm a nidus main, they are giving away 100% of his usable kit in 99% of missions and I'm happy about it, the problem with valkyr isn't a loss of identity, it's that her kit is old and dusty and half of it is trash and they needed to demand a rework, not cry that other people got access to a decent ability.  If anything I'm mad that they are nerfing larva just to hurt protea mains, that's F'd up).
-Three people complained that they were MR 8 on purpose and want to stay that way Forever for the Lulz... a meme that was funny once in 2015.  I have 0 sympathy that this is a problem of any kind for anyone.

I'm proposing that these three jerks are the reason for the lack of MR gate.

Nobody, NOBODY was asking the MR be lowered except those people.  Some people were disappointed that they couldn't access it right away, but most of them realized that this meant they had to start to get to work grinding and many probably did grind out MR 15 in hopes of achieving this system in time for launch, just like many of us grinded out all base frames the day tennocon started.

 

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15 hours ago, Blaudari said:

...Don't try & say that this is gonna mess up the veteran community or the whole community as a whole. You don't speak for everyone.

in fact, I'm really not giving a damn about all this all "thing"...
and I play from the launch of the game !!

however, in some moments I find myself thinking about how difficult it was to me, in the beginning to get to where I am today...
and TODAY, that changes and I see that it would have been better to wait and start now!!!

lol

how will it be that some veterans face this kind of thing?!?
who cares!!!

Edited by S0NGA
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20 hours ago, S0NGA said:

in fact, I'm really not giving a damn about all this all "thing"...

...to be honest, I’ve been disappointed so many times with the game’s nerfs, that I will didn’t even do the helminth!
I can no longer imagine me spending time and resources on it and watching my work go down the drain.
I haven't seen anything good about it yet...
maybe, later on, when the dust settles, I have the patience to try to do something about it, with the best left over!

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NOT lowering the MR would be viewed as an attempt to force new players to buy ever increasing numbers of slots for the ever increasing list of frames.

All the Helminth system does is free up room for players to consume resources and try new frames until they find their true main. Resource sinks promote grinding.

Elites see MR as "something", when it really is not. If I want to spend years using a MK1 Paris only, and never trade, I should have the right to play any content out there that I can handle. Game elitists are horrible, I commend the devs in seeing there are many types of gamers out there. I for one HATE the MR tests. I cant stand the archwing stuff. I spend my plat on fashion frame stuff, hang with my real world buddy in our Ghost Clan, and enjoy the game. Why does the low MR players matter more? We purchase our plat with fiat because we arent getting uber drops to fund our fun. Fiat pays the bills and paychecks at DE.

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On 2020-08-21 at 11:27 AM, kaotis said:

People that stook around for years probably spend more money do, also mantain an economy of riven rolls etc that incentivises the buying of plat. 

That's provably false. I've been around for 3-4 years now, and I'm already out of stuff to buy, other than maybe the occasional Forma. Veterans do not bring in significant revenue. And yes, when you start describing other people having things you have as "a slap in the face," then that very much smells like elitism. DE might have many flaws, but the one flaw they consistently avoid is catering to an insular elitist minority which considers itself more important than everyone else. Regardless of how you couch these arguments, they are not constructive.

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Look at the bright side; At least DE gave a clear implication they don't intend for the MR system to be any meaningful, so we high MR players don't have to grind new recycled filler content, like open worlds for mastery fodder because it's meaningless anyways.

Good on them!

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hace 1 hora, Steel_Rook dijo:

That's provably false. I've been around for 3-4 years now, and I'm already out of stuff to buy, other than maybe the occasional Forma. Veterans do not bring in significant revenue. And yes, when you start describing other people having things you have as "a slap in the face," then that very much smells like elitism. DE might have many flaws, but the one flaw they consistently avoid is catering to an insular elitist minority which considers itself more important than everyone else. Regardless of how you couch these arguments, they are not constructive.

Giving 250 extra standing to some one when the  basic usable things are 500? With the exeption of basic fishing rod etc that cost 100?

I call slap in the face to give trash to the players that engaged with most of the content they put out.

You call it elitism ... you are in the your right to think what ever you want. I reiterated in several posts it's  a symbolic nr that was given to the high end just to say here we gave you something don't cry. I would have preferred to get 0 than getting a spit in the face.

Not constructive? You might want to refresh on the definition of constructive criticism  there. Kissing but and saying yes you do 100% perfect is not feedback, if that's what you do in the political system in your country the go for it. 

Real constructive criticism/feedback is when you say what you have to say. (And in this case calling out clear mistakes) You don't share my opinion ? Good on you! Keep it up ! 

You have 3-4 years... yet your account was made in 17 august 2018  so either A) you got banned and are using a secondary account or B) you are lying or C) math ain't your forte chief... i'm inclined on B. 

You don't have anything to buy... so you don't buy prime packs to help DE , you don't buy community skins to help creators, you play like a true ninja...yea... back at the previous B) option.

And my account says January 25 on 2015... hmmm got a few years on ya there chief... a few years of seeing same treatment from DE update after update so... yea... sorry if i'm not at rainbows and sunshine when i get this type of changes.

Is this enough feedback for you? or do you want more?

 

Edited by kaotis
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On 2020-08-20 at 7:24 PM, Flustershy said:

But on steam

Can't rely on Steam stats. They're inaccurate.

The MR cap is fine where it is. If newer players want to play with the Helminth system, let them. Player freedom is a good thing. But remember that they first have to unlock it by grinding up high enough Entrati standing...

Which at low MR is painful to do when you have a real life outside of gaming. And that's still assuming they have the gear (namely: good mods) they need to handle that grind on Deimos. Consider that Deimos doesn't offer Archwing or K-Drive itself, so they'd need to ALSO go to PoE or Fortuna to get them for traveling around easily (So that's even more grind to enable the Deimos grind to unlock the Helminth grind). Velocipods exist, but you have to find them.

I'm not in the least bit concerned about DE nerfing costs. I was happy to see them nerf Railjack costs, personally, as an MR29 player.

Edited by DrakeWurrum
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2 hours ago, kaotis said:

You have 3-4 years... yet your account was made in 17 august 2018  so either A) you got banned and are using a secondary account or B) you are lying or C) math ain't your forte chief... i'm inclined on B. 

That's the date when I joined the forums. My account was created somewhere in 2016, whereupon I played for a few hours and abandoned the game entirely. Late 2017 is when a friend of mine started insisting I play Warframe with him, and it wasn't until early 2018 that I actually started playing in earnest. So fair enough - not quite 3-4 years, I was speaking off the top of my head. But hey - you want to accuse me of lying if it makes you feel any better, then go right ahead.

 

2 hours ago, kaotis said:

You don't have anything to buy... so you don't buy prime packs to help DE , you don't buy community skins to help creators, you play like a true ninja...yea... back at the previous B) option.

OK, so I spent about half an hour trying to parse data out of my Steam recepits because I don't feel like going through all of them. The next step would be to write a text-parser script and I don't feel like doing that at 4 AM. I've bought exactly one Prime Pack - Rhino Prime back around where I started playing for €40. I've bought $50's worth of Plat around a dozen times on 75% discount - the game's given me quite a few of those. I've bought almost all of the Graxx skins because I thought they looked pretty cool, all of them $7 a pop. At last tally, I was ~€500 into Warframe, and I've bought Plat at least once since then... Actually, I used the Outlook app to add the numbers by hand. It came out to a total of €643.78, according to Steam's receipts. That's... A lot more than I was actually expecting, as you can tell by my shorthand guess.

Of course, you can accuse me of lying unless I show you my receipts with my billing address or some such. Suffice it to say, however, that I'm a whale. No, I've not spent thousands of dollars on Warframe, but that's a lot of money for the relatively short time I've played this game. I currently have every MR-granting item in the game aside from the Founder's stuff (which isn't obtainable) and the Cambian Drift stuff (because I haven't lost my patience with Deimos yet). What would YOU propose I buy? Boosters? I've had a near-uninterrupted Affinity Booster for the last year. Skins? I already have custom skins for the majority of my Warframes and quite a few of my weapons. Forma? I've already spent thousands of Plat on Forma - I nearly never earn any of it. Catalysts and Reactors? Same deal - I've bought the majority of mine. Arcanes? Spent 1700 on Arcane Grace - apparently I got fleeced, especially since I then had to spend more to get it to Rank 5 come Scarlet Spear. Prime Accessories packs? I might be a whale, but I'm not whale enough to blow $80 in a Warframe and two guns. Cosmetics? I like the way my Warframes look already. Those that have alternate skins I like, I already have. I find Syandanas as a whole to look like butts so no sense wasting money on that.

I'm not claiming to be a major investor in Warframe, but I have already spent far more money on this game than is really reasonable. DE aren't going to get a lot more money out of me, because I literally don't have anything else I want that I can spend money on. I can't pay money for a Necromech because those aren't for sale and I don't actually like any of the new Infested weapons enough to bother buying them. As far as a lucrative audience goes, I'm not it. I've already spent pretty much all I'm going to spend. I might throw another 45 for Plat if I start running low again, but I'm sitting on 6000 Plant. That'll take a while to work through on just Forma and Catalysts.

 

3 hours ago, kaotis said:

Not constructive? You might want to refresh on the definition of constructive criticism  there. Kissing but and saying yes you do 100% perfect is not feedback, if that's what you do in the political system in your country the go for it. 

I just find it funny when people have this much of a one-track mind. You accuse me of "kissing ass" while I literally have another thread on these forums open in another tab where a poster is accusing me of whining and moaning. I don't care how many more years you have on me - NEITHER of us are Warframe's target audience because neither of us have that much left to spend on the game, relative to the new money a new player brings in. A game which caters to veterans is a game which grows stagnant and quickly. Developers and publishers might occasionally throw a bone at "veteran" players, but don't for a second expect special treatment. I mean, who knows - maybe you buy every Prime Access Pack that comes out at full price and single-handedly fund Digital Extremes out of pocket. Thing is, I rather doubt it. A new player who still needs Plat for Warframes and slots and Forma and Boosters and such is going to spend a hell of a lot more than a veteran ever will, even a veteran pretending to do charity.

If you feel it's a "slap in the face" to not be treated like a VIP, well... You're going to be continually disappointed.

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hace 9 horas, Steel_Rook dijo:

That's the date when I joined the forums. My account was created somewhere in 2016, whereupon I played for a few hours and abandoned the game entirely. Late 2017 is when a friend of mine started insisting I play Warframe with him, and it wasn't until early 2018 that I actually started playing in earnest. So fair enough - not quite 3-4 years, I was speaking off the top of my head. But hey - you want to accuse me of lying if it makes you feel any better, then go right ahead.

I only made once my account and i honestly don't remeber a tiem when game account and forum account weren't the same (as in they get created at the same time)

hace 9 horas, Steel_Rook dijo:

But hey - you want to accuse me of lying if it makes you feel any better, then go right ahead.

An extract from https://www.dictionary.com/browse/lying

Spoiler

the telling of lies, or false statements

I didn't just accuse you of lying i also proven it. i said that what you said was false (a factual thing that was easy to get to) and as a result of that factual thing 3 conclusions could be had, if you said it with bad intetion or not that only you can know, i'm left with a text on a black screen, to figure out intent from that is rather complicated.

hace 9 horas, Steel_Rook dijo:

OK, so I spent about half an hour trying to parse data out of my Steam recepits because I don't feel like going through all of them

This might help :

 

hace 9 horas, Steel_Rook dijo:

The next step would be to write a text-parser script and I don't feel like doing that at 4 AM

Text parser? As in you want to dowload manualy all the mails xD? You could write an mail reader in c# , python or what ever is your favorite poison that collects all your mails that come from steam, then filter out thous that don't have "Warframe" in it , a bit of black magic of regular expresions to get the spent ammount (based on the currency you use) , convert that to double , sum it up and show it in a message.

hace 9 horas, Steel_Rook dijo:

Of course, you can accuse me of lying unless I show you my receipts with my billing address or some such.

The actual nr is not of importance so there is no real reason to question you about the exact sum.   

hace 9 horas, Steel_Rook dijo:

relatively short time I've played this game

Depends on how many hours in-game , it would boil down to $$$/hours played  and if you consider it a good trade. Only you can judge that.

hace 9 horas, Steel_Rook dijo:

NEITHER of us are Warframe's target audience because neither of us have that much left to spend on the game

It depends, i for one have started to spend more on these type of things as the years gone by, because in my case at least, i have less time to spend playing so i sorta started paying to skip time.

hace 9 horas, Steel_Rook dijo:

A game which caters to veterans is a game which grows stagnant and quickly

I didn't ask to be catered to or get the most extravaganza treatment coz i got to almost 100% completion. What i asked for was don't give me somthing symbolic that is meaningles just to use it as an excuse later on when players acuse you of ignorign veterans <--- because don't be fooled sooner or lather the 250 they gave us will be used as a "see this... ye this ... i didn't forget you existed so shut up ".

hace 9 horas, Steel_Rook dijo:

Developers and publishers might occasionally throw a bone at "veteran" players, but don't for a second expect special treatment.

hace 9 horas, Steel_Rook dijo:

If you feel it's a "slap in the face" to not be treated like a VIP, well... You're going to be continually disappointed.

The fact that every token is 100 standing and our increment is 250 means we will lose 50 standing if we max it out in the new zone, meaning we actualy have 200 if we don't want to lose standing or we actualy lose standing if we max. So this ain't a bone ... this is a slap on the face. What i originaly comented about here and in other threads.

hace 9 horas, Steel_Rook dijo:

maybe you buy every Prime Access Pack that comes out at full price and single-handedly fund Digital Extremes out of pocket

Nah i haven't invested that much , I'm at 719,26 right now.

hace 9 horas, Steel_Rook dijo:

A new player who still needs Plat for Warframes and slots and Forma and Boosters and such is going to spend a hell of a lot more than a veteran ever will

Or get sick of having to buy anything and stop playing. ---side note here about new players, the actual thing that has happened to many of the poeple i have tryied to introduce to the game: they got overwhelmed with all the systems that are in place since the start basicaly leading them to not want to interact with a lot of this systems that where made to cater to them lol----

 

 

Edited by kaotis
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2 hours ago, kaotis said:

Depends on how many hours in-game , it would boil down to $$$/hours played  and if you consider it a good trade. Only you can judge that.

3076 hours according to Steam. Then again, you've made it patently obvious that you're looking for a fight. I tried posting in good faith and you mocked and derided me for it. If that's what your attitude is going to be, then I'm simply going to defer to "entitled elitism" and not bother arguing with you further. The mere fact that your main line of attack was "you haven't spent as much time or money on the game as me, son" is reason enough to disregard anything else you have to say. I hope that pitching a fit and picking fights with random bystanders is cathartic for you, because it's not going to earn you any respect.

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hace 25 minutos, Steel_Rook dijo:

Then again, you've made it patently obvious that you're looking for a fight

Ermmmm I was never looking for a fight, you are the one that came guns blazing and acused me of elitism when on the contrary i was directly saying i rather have nothing if it's going to be used as an excuse a few weeks or months down the road.

If asking to be left alone is what you call "entitled elitism" then sure role with that. 

hace 25 minutos, Steel_Rook dijo:

The mere fact that your main line of attack was "you haven't spent as much time or money on the game as me, son" is reason enough to disregard anything else you have to say.

When the fck did i say that? I said( or at least tryied to) that it is hard to belive you have everything under the sun and won't spend a cent more on the game.

I never inteded for that to be meant as an atack... can't say the same about you callign me an "entitled elitist" ...

If i where you i would drop the play victim card when some one calls you out on the bs you say online, grow up and admit what you said was wrong , you didn't read my first post and overreacted and finally move on with your life.<--- this you could tecnicaly called a looking for a fight statement more or less ... would be pasive agresive if you reflected a bit but stil there you go. Snowflake must snowflake i guess.

hace 25 minutos, Steel_Rook dijo:

with random bystanders is cathartic for you, because it's not going to earn you any respect

The victim card is strong in you i see. Here is a sumary:

  1. You started the discusion by callign me elitist when i gave my honest feedback on how DE dealt with this case
  2. You made some false statements that i called you out on
  3. You are now saying i wanted to start a fight  when 1. and 2. are direct result of your actions.

So cry wolf all you want and call yourself inocet and "random bystander" ... that surely won't garner you any respect from any one that reads this thread of coments betwen you and me. Have a good day and enjoy the 250 extra standing you aparently love so much

Edited by kaotis
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On 2020-08-23 at 4:52 PM, Kefirno said:

Mastery ranks means nothing. It only shows how much garbage weapons you have leveled. Mastery ranks gates are stupid. Except liches because accidentally creating a Lich without proper tools to kill him can seriously mess up new player's progression.

Weapons, equipment are content. It doesn't matter that they are bad, because they could be as good and unique as DE is trying to do now. The discovery of maps and planets is content.

All this means that MR shows the amount of content that you have mastered. Yes, this is not ideal, but as I said above, the whole problem is that things can be bad, but they are still content.

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  • 1 month later...

I feel DE is doing this to get money fro newer players, who don't know:

  • about wiki
  • trading
  • farming
  • MR meaning/ leveling

By allowing lower MR to invest in the Helminth means they are using their resources into creating two of the same frame immediately and farming two. But more than likely they must save their resources to use for Helminth cost. If not they wont be able to use the Helminth system unless they will be spending real money for in game currency to by frames instead of crafting them.

Yes this sounds very broken. Even a MR 15 is kind of low. Id be more compelled to MR 20. Since they have the majority of items crafted and really don't need them all any longer for foundry crafting.

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