I Don’t Understand the Token Hate

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

9 minutes ago, vegetosayajin said:

Not be forced to play a hiding game/bring a special frame if you don't want to(you can kill it with anything but it gives half the stuff for example) - make more animals, not an occasional 1-2 or 0(in the case of fortuna if you don't follow the tracks).Make them have gathering spots.
You can still get the double(or triple) bonus for playing the slow hiding and perfect capture game if you are into this stuff, but for those who don't animals can be just killed and picked up for the resources or standing if you want to.
Make it so your cat/dog can catch one.
I do every nightwave challenge out of boredom, but I always skip those after the first couple of times...

tl;dr make it more engaging and with a lot of choice.

 

Pets already do enough. Asking them to perform captures is just lazy. You would just sit there and wait for the AI to do the work like people already do with wukong. 

There are 3 or 4 frames that can go invis, so you're still not forced to use a certain frame. You should already have one of those frames anyways if you're a decent MR. 

I hate conservation too, and hope they make some adjustments to it, though. 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)Wil_Shatner_face said:

I played a ton of Halo 2 and 3 and I think Destiny is a much better product, but honestly it feels sluggish after playing Warframe. That’s not necessarily Destiny’s fault though, a lot of games feel sluggish after getting accustomed to WF’s movement. Gunplay in Destiny is A+ though, I will give them that.

Yea exactly. I tried CoD Warzone after some friends begged me to try it. I can not stand walking in FPS' now its completely sluggish. 

It reminds me of walking in Final Fantasy or WoW before mounts.

[(PSN)Wil_Shatner_face]

Just now, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Yea exactly. I tried CoD Warzone after some friends begged me to try it. I can not stand walking in FPS' now its completely sluggish. 

It reminds me of walking in Final Fantasy or WoW before mounts.

Bruh, same. COD was my game of choice for years and I can’t even play it now. I started to get burnt out on PVP games, somebody recommended Warframe and I’ve barely played anything else for like 7 months now.

[SoulEchelon]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

There apparently is. Tokens show up out in the open world. So..... Their salty salt is, salty. 

Ah well that's good. But do you really think these same people will take the time to venture out into the world and look for them? xD Ah well. I'm sure some youtuber will eventually make a video on where they spawn so those that refuse to use the system can just be pointed towards those instead.

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Wil_Shatner_face said:

Personally I don’t enjoy conservation, but I also don’t mind that the game forces me to engage with something that they spent time developing. I’ve played very few games where I enjoyed 100% of everything I did while playing it. Sometimes you have to get past a roadblock to get back to the things you enjoy, that’s just video games IMO.

The freak outs about it on these forums are hilarious though.

I understand and generally agree. Warframe first and foremost is a horde shooter, and not everyone enjoys not horde shooting for a few moments - which is fine. As you said, it's these insane, entitled reactions people get here that are facepalming.

[AltheusVI]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Wil_Shatner_face said:

There are obviously some kinks to work out, particularly with the son tokens, but overall this is going be so much better than previous standing systems once those kinks are worked out.

You can just stockpile tokens for the next day, so for the first time you can actually farm past your standing limit. So I just don’t understand the hate.

EDIT: Couple people have pointed out that some of the annoyance comes from being forced into things like conservation. I agree with this and I do think they should implement multiple ways to get certain tokens, or just condense it to one or two types of tokens that can be obtained multiple ways. Overall though, token system good.

The ability to store up tokens is the good bit, the requirement for specific tokens that have only one minigame to get them isn't.

If there were a token exchange that would exchange one kind for another at a 2-1 ratio I don't think anyone would be complaining.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

7 minutes ago, NanoVega said:

I've been running around for literally hours and only found 1 son token through this. So that's not efficient or effective. And doesn't solve the fact that you need to get specific tags to rank up from 2 to 3.

That just confirms that they exist and are an alternative to specifically farming for them. The problem here isn't the lack of an alternative, it's a false sense of entitlement that makes you believe that these things should just be handed to you. 

 

2 minutes ago, SoulEchelon said:

Ah well that's good. But do you really think these same people will take the time to venture out into the world and look for them? xD Ah well. I'm sure some youtuber will eventually make a video on where they spawn so those that refuse to use the system can just be pointed towards those instead.

Absolutely not. Lazy people are lazy. 🤷‍♂️

[NanoVega]

2 minutes ago, SoulEchelon said:

Ah well that's good. But do you really think these same people will take the time to venture out into the world and look for them? xD Ah well. I'm sure some youtuber will eventually make a video on where they spawn so those that refuse to use the system can just be pointed towards those instead.

I understand and generally agree. Warframe first and foremost is a horde shooter, and not everyone enjoys not horde shooting for a few moments - which is fine. As you said, it's these insane, entitled reactions people get here that are facepalming.

Regardless of son tokens rarely appearing in the open world.... You still need specific capture tags to rank up from 2 to 3. So even that incredibly crappy solution really isn't a solution...

[NanoVega]

Just now, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

That just confirms that they exist and are an alternative to specifically farming for them. The problem here isn't the lack of an alternative, it's a false sense of entitlement that makes you believe that these things should just be handed to you. 

 

Absolutely not. Lazy people are lazy. 🤷‍♂️

Son tokens existing in open world doesn't fix the requirement to get 5 of an incredibly rare creature tag to rank up.

[Darazio]

I think the Token system is a good idea, I just wish they had implemented this system with Fortuna and Cetus... Well mainly Cetus...

[SoulEchelon]

 

Just now, NanoVega said:

Regardless of son tokens rarely appearing in the open world.... You still need specific capture tags to rank up from 2 to 3. So even that incredibly crappy solution really isn't a solution...

Well again, any solutions to be given aren't supposed to also negate the need to actually do some form of conservation. The system isn't there to be ignored or become immediately obsolete.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

3 minutes ago, NanoVega said:

Son tokens existing in open world doesn't fix the requirement to get 5 of an incredibly rare creature tag to rank up.

Are they incredibly rare or have you just not found many of them? 

[Vyra]

While i have no problem, i can understand people get bored of fishing. But as far as i played i got resources like fishes and gems just by doing bounties/killing next to Requiem Pillars.

 

Btw, isnt Fortune the same? You need fishing to get amps, kitguns and moas? 

 

And then theres of course Plains of eidolon.

 

For those who dont like conservation, maybe try ivara or other sleep frames?

[NanoVega]

Just now, SoulEchelon said:

 

Well again, any solutions to be given aren't supposed to also negate the need to actually do some form of conservation. The system isn't there to be ignored or become immediately obsolete.

The only solution would be to make it an optional thing again. There's no good purpose to forcing players to do a random mini game VERY extensively just for the purpose of getting to do the content we want to do. And if you don't do that, and make them separate towers to climb, not only do you have way more content for players to do in a linear way, it's also optional to even do the ones that make other players want to uninstall the game. 

There's no "Making it better" aside from trivializing it almost entirely or removing it. But if you really want to focus on tuning the numbers, all they have to do is take a serious look at the amount of tags needed. 6 purple velocipods and 8 vizier tags for 2 son tokens is absurd. 

[AltheusVI]

4 minutes ago, SoulEchelon said:

 

Well again, any solutions to be given aren't supposed to also negate the need to actually do some form of conservation. The system isn't there to be ignored or become immediately obsolete.

Then make it optional and those who enjoy it will do it.

[NanoVega]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Are they incredibly rare or have you just not found many of them? 

Considering the amount of other people testifying the difficulty of capturing Achivea. They're apparently incredibly rare. 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

Just now, NanoVega said:

Considering the amount of other people testifying the difficulty of capturing Achivea. They're apparently incredibly rare. 

🤣

You're funny. 

[NanoVega]

1 minute ago, Vyra said:

While i have no problem, i can understand people get bored of fishing. But as far as i played i got resources like fishes and gems just by doing bounties/killing next to Requiem Pillars.

Those are great, and honestly I love fishing. Conservation has way too many variables involved to make it mandatory. From the several types of animals of differing rarity and capturability, to the glitchiness of the capture system itself, to the glitchiness of the interactions between animals and infested, to the difficulty of locating animals and whether or not they're even spawning. It's a mess. A tumor, easier cut out and laid aside rather than forced down people's throats.

[NanoVega]

1 minute ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

🤣

You're funny. 

🤪

You're funny.

[Kconvey]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

That just confirms that they exist and are an alternative to specifically farming for them. The problem here isn't the lack of an alternative, it's a false sense of entitlement that makes you believe that these things should just be handed to you. 

 

Absolutely not. Lazy people are lazy. 🤷‍♂️

This level of grind is NOT in any way shape or form acceptable.

[(PSN)Oracle-Raven]

Son tokens are beyond godawful.

The other token types are fine IMO.

[vegetosayajin]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

 

Pets already do enough. Asking them to perform captures is just lazy. You would just sit there and wait for the AI to do the work like people already do with wukong. 

There are 3 or 4 frames that can go invis, so you're still not forced to use a certain frame. You should already have one of those frames anyways if you're a decent MR. 

I hate conservation too, and hope they make some adjustments to it, though. 

Not capture everything with the cat - a chance to capture only a number of animals.4 frames out of 40+ and from these 4 - 2 are the best...yea a lot of choice.

I'm not saying I can't do them, I said that I don't because after the 40-50 capture I was fed up how annoying the mechanic it is.
Also these were of the top of my head, because you asked to, I'm sure a team of 200+ people could come up with something better if they wanted to.

[Vyra]

1 minute ago, NanoVega said:

Those are great, and honestly I love fishing. Conservation has way too many variables involved to make it mandatory. From the several types of animals of differing rarity and capturability, to the glitchiness of the capture system itself, to the glitchiness of the interactions between animals and infested, to the difficulty of locating animals and whether or not they're even spawning. It's a mess. A tumor, easier cut out and laid aside rather than forced down people's throats.

Mhhh, im sorry you feel that way.

I play this world with Equinox, capturing animals is easy to me, maybe i try another frame and see what that feels like. 

[SoulEchelon]

Just now, NanoVega said:

The only solution would be to make it an optional thing again. There's no good purpose to forcing players to do a random mini game VERY extensively just for the purpose of getting to do the content we want to do. And if you don't do that, and make them separate towers to climb, not only do you have way more content for players to do in a linear way, it's also optional to even do the ones that make other players want to uninstall the game. 

There's no "Making it better" aside from trivializing it almost entirely or removing it. But if you really want to focus on tuning the numbers, all they have to do is take a serious look at the amount of tags needed. 6 purple velocipods and 8 vizier tags for 2 son tokens is absurd. 

I already mentioned in my earlier post that the amount of tags needed for son tokens should be reduced due to the time and effort needed to obtain them. As for everything else, the only option I would partially agree with is rare bounty rewards for some of these tags. There can not be a way to 100% circumvent the system without it being a longer, more randomized grind. Because if you circumvent it with an easier grind, you alienate the players that enjoy the conservation system while also making said system redundant. Seeing as conservation is the direct antithesis to murdering everything in sight, it stands to reason not using the system in place would mean less frequent rewards from said system.

[Circle_of_Psi]

Can someone please explain to me whats going on?, I'm hearing all this feedback on how hard it is to get "Tokens" and the "Hunting" thing, but I am unsure if people just can't grasp out the Tranq-n-Quill works or this system is different to PoE/Orb Val.

[NanoVega]

Just now, Vyra said:

Mhhh, im sorry you feel that way.

I play this world with Equinox, capturing animals is easy to me, maybe i try another frame and see what that feels like. 

There's feeling and then there's demonstrate-able facts. Your attempt to somewhat degrade the truths I'm spitting by implying they are only my subjective opinion isn't appreciated.