How to Rework Loki without upsetting his Mains

[Grav_Starstrider]

Loki's a bit stale to many people, but we know there are people who are attached to his specific playstyles. I have some proposed synergies/buffs that could make Loki a lot more engaging to play, while still enabling people the option to play in mostly the same manner. Obviously feel free to chime in whether you are a Loki main or not, please keep it more constructive than "no" or "this sucks" though.

Edit: New suggestion pasted here, original suggestion quote/spoiler-hidden at end.

---- Ability Updates

Decoy: Does damage by default (not a lot, but make their health and damage scale with enemy level, to be consistently at least contributing a small amount in drawing aggro, being a meatshield decoy, and doing at least a smidge of damage or inflicting more varied/desired procs based on your weapon modding). Still thematically serves the purpose of being a Decoy and does little to change or remove functionality, only improving. Decoy could also be cast on one (or more) enemies, making them a fleeing Decoy (Kavor-style AI, fearful run-and-gunning, either in circles in the current tile, or in a random direction and then making a last stand when they're cornered), so that it's not a blatantly better version of Mind Control, Enthrall, etc., but rather be it's own thing. If DE thinks Decoy is worth buffing even more than this, they could feel free to make the cap higher, like up to 3 Decoy'ed enemies and a Loki Decoy.

Invisibility: Let Loki keep his normal Invisibility, and provide a charge-cast alternate ability, Disguise. Disguise could last a bit or a lot longer, encasing you in the targeted enemy's mesh in a similar manner as Nyx holograms surround Chaos'ed enemies, letting you sneak right past guards and cameras, but not laser-wires. If DE wanted to keep this Disguise option more limited, they could implement mobility limitations like Ivara suffers, where you are capped at the enemy's max sprint speed and normal jumps, or using interactables like Ziplines, but double jumping and bullet jumping will break Disguise. On the opposite end of the spectrum, Invisibility would remain comparatively shorter (the normal length), but could be updated to provide a mobility/parkour boost, to compliment his current wall-clinging passive.

Switch Teleport: Make this ability cost 50 energy, but also afflict enemy targets with his reworked Decoy cast effects by default. Make charge-casts against enemies substitute you in their place already-Disguised for an additional 25 energy. Make the cost of Teleport (and the charged upgrade to Disguise) half off if targeting already-cast Decoys, while refreshing their Decoy duration.

Radial Disarm: Add a synergy between Radial Disarm and Decoy, making (Irradiated/)Radial Disarm be mimicked by the Loki Decoy casting it if present. Maybe also roll Irradiated Disarm's damage and status procs into the base functionality of Radial Disarm, and make the augment "Appropriating Disarm" where it boosts the damage of Loki (and his Decoy[s]) dependent upon enemy level and how many units were disarmed.

---- Passive

If DE was feeling ambitious, they could make a Discord Meter for Loki, where the more he has forced enemies to fight each other, the more of either duration, efficiency, or evasion, he has, or some combination thereof, since he has no way of directly recovering energy for himself, and just to give him more passive flavor than "He clings to walls longer" which is honestly just a really lackluster passive. Maybe he has an easier time of keeping it above a certain threshold by simply passively having a chance of him or his abilities causing radiation procs, above a certain point on the Discord meter, helping feed itself once he's built up the momentum.

---- Summary

Truly, he'd be a trickster god, with this passive and these upgrades. I think there's a lot of room in here for DE to play with the numbers, or opt out of certain features or suggestions, or picking one alternative over another, while still leaving Loki's base kit almost entirely unchanged. I don't think this version of suggestions would even require they add the functionality-altering exilus mod to justify the changes.

Obviously DE could/would decide on how any and all of the numbers work out, or which specific options out of the several presented here, could be utilized. And you're all free to have an opinion on any of this. But I personally think that at least applying even just 1 of the changes here, would make for a fun update to Loki's kit. I just know that I'm never going to use the Helminth System to apply Loki's Decoy to another Warframe, if all it does is draw a bit of aggro, have both a health and duration-based limit, and just tickle enemies with puncture and/or impact procs, so clearly the ability could use a facelift, imo, and the rest of his kit could use it too.

 

The abilities wouldn't even have to become massive walls of text to describe these either.

"Spawn damaging and distracting Holograms on enemies or open spaces" 
"Turn Invisible with added parkour mobility, or charge-cast to Disguise yourself as an enemy"
"Switch Teleport with other entities. Enemies are turned into Decoys. Charge-cast to arrive Disguised for 25 more energy"
"You and any Decoys confuse and disarm nearby foes in a radial wave"

With additional notes and nuances such as the decreased Teleport cost on Decoys, and the refresh of duration, being in Tips, and alterations to augments of course being described in the augment mods.

Spoiler

 

First of all, I'd propose a Loki "Passive" exilus augment, that disables the new synergies, in exchange for some Ability Range and/or Duration, not dissimilar to some of the Augments that have come out for Titania, Zephyr, Nezha, Nidus, etc. This could be an attractive option for Loki mains that don't want new synergies/changes, that don't have an amazing pick in place for the Exilus slot already.

----

Base Ability Change Proposals

For Decoy, I'd propose making it so that your Decoy can actually do damage against foes, rather than only doing IPS status procs. If copying your own weapons would be too OP (even though Celestial Twin does so), then I'd propose making him function using Vauban's Fletchette's Level-based scaling. Less effective than a Celestial Twin is in low-level missions, doesn't become useless no matter how high the mission levels get. If the Decoy is drawing aggro anyways, I figure he may as well be doing damage.

If DE wants to emphasize that Loki is the "mobile" stealth option, to Ivara's "slow" stealth, or Ash's "it's stealth if there aren't any witnesses" approaches, they could simply buff Invisibility to have a minor parkour component, so that people can more effectively utilize his wall-clinging Passive.

Switch Teleport: unchanged

Radial Disarm: unchanged

----

Synergy Proposals

Decoy-
If DE/fans don't want Decoy to be doing damage by default (which would admittedly make it less of a decoy and more of a Clone), or at least don't want Decoy doing much, we could make Switch Teleports and/or Radial Disarms activate or boost the damage output of the Decoy for a short duration, and/or have the Decoy perform a Radial Disarm as well, similar to how Wukong's Celestial Twin performs the same abilities he does. It would be neat to have the Decoy's damage output scale based on the combined quantity/levels of disarmed foes between the two of them.

Invisibility-
Have Invisibility alter the behavior of Switch Teleport, so that the enemy isn't aggro'd or alerted after being teleported, but is rather just extremely confused. Alternatively, make it imbue them with a maxed-out, long-lasting Radiation proc, so that they've been simply "driven mad", and if their former allies put them down and out of their misery, no alert/alarm is raised.
Invisibility could also make it so that a newly cast Decoy won't attack unless it is attacked first, until Loki's Invisibility wears off, or until Loki uses a Radial Disarm.
Invisibility could also make it so that Switch Teleport becomes just a Teleport-and-replace, when used on his Decoys.

Switch Teleport-
As mentioned in "Decoy", if DE/fans don't want Decoy doing damage by default, they could make it a temporary damage output done by Decoy, only activated by Switch Teleporting either the Decoy into range of enemies, or an enemy into range of the Decoy.

Radial Disarm-
As mentioned in "Decoy", Radial Disarm could be cast by Decoy as well, and could either buff Decoy's damage output, or provide the damage output in the first place, if DE/fans don't want it doing damage by default.

----

Upgrading Decoy to either do damage by default, or only via using Switch Teleport and/or Radial Disarm, and by being able to modify the behaviors/outcomes of Decoy and Switch Teleport by using Invisibility, and having an Exilus mod option available to disable all of the synergies, would allow people to find either a drastically increased amount of engagement in Loki's abilities and how they interact, or allow them to play him in a virtually unchanged manner.

 

 

[(PSN)NoTrollGaming]

I do hope Loki gets some small changes, I remember when I first started I grinded so hard to get him and I played him for the majority of the game until it became boring

[Yamazuki]

Step 1- Delete the tint from his stealth. HoD just shows how bad it is.

[Grav_Starstrider]

1 hour ago, Yamazuki said:

Step 1- Delete the tint from his stealth. HoD just shows how bad it is.

I'd appreciate it if the tint had a purpose, like making enemies more vividly visible. But as it is, it's a really over-the-top and ugly way of indicating invisibility, when Octavia and Ivara have far less intrusive and obnoxious invisibilities.

[Grav_Starstrider]

2 hours ago, (PS4)NoTrollGaming said:

I do hope Loki gets some small changes, I remember when I first started I grinded so hard to get him and I played him for the majority of the game until it became boring

Would you say you "Mained him" and found some of these suggestions inoffensive? Cuz that's what I was going and hoping for :p 

[MasterBurik]

 

Quote

First of all, I'd propose a Loki "Passive" exilus augment, that disables the new synergies, in exchange for some Ability Range and/or Duration, not dissimilar to some of the Augments that have come out for Titania, Zephyr, Nezha, Nidus, etc. This could be an attractive option for Loki mains that don't want new synergies/changes, that don't have an amazing pick in place for the Exilus slot already.

I dunno...

Having to give up my exilus slot to appease your playstyle just feels wrong to me.

Quote

Base Ability Change Proposals

For Decoy, I'd propose making it so that your Decoy can actually do damage against foes, rather than only doing IPS status procs. If copying your own weapons would be too OP (even though Celestial Twin does so), then I'd propose making him function using Vauban's Fletchette's Level-based scaling. Less effective than a Celestial Twin is in low-level missions, doesn't become useless no matter how high the mission levels get. If the Decoy is drawing aggro anyways, I figure he may as well be doing damage.

It appears to me that Decoy wants to fit the "trickster illusionist" theme of the Norse god Loki. As such, its primary focus isn't to deal damage. It is to draw fire away from Loki.

But if damage was indeed their purpose, Decoys lack scaling health to do so sufficiently. Giving them the ability to deal scaling damage would still fall flat, as they would start dying too quickly for it to matter.

Quote

If DE wants to emphasize that Loki is the "mobile" stealth option, to Ivara's "slow" stealth, or Ash's "it's stealth if there aren't any witnesses" approaches, they could simply buff Invisibility to have a minor parkour component, so that people can more effectively utilize his wall-clinging Passive.

That sounds sensible.

Quote

Switch Teleport: unchanged

Radial Disarm: unchanged

Oof.

Like most of Loki's skills, Switch Teleport is barely a skill on its own.

And Radial Disarm is rather expensive for what it does. Baruuk's Desolate Hands is only 75 energy at base, and provides much more value than a simple disarm AoE.

Quote

Synergy Proposals

Decoy-
If DE/fans don't want Decoy to be doing damage by default (which would admittedly make it less of a decoy and more of a Clone), or at least don't want Decoy doing much, we could make Switch Teleports and/or Radial Disarms activate or boost the damage output of the Decoy for a short duration, and/or have the Decoy perform a Radial Disarm as well, similar to how Wukong's Celestial Twin performs the same abilities he does. It would be neat to have the Decoy's damage output scale based on the combined quantity/levels of disarmed foes between the two of them.

Quote

Switch Teleport-
As mentioned in "Decoy", if DE/fans don't want Decoy doing damage by default, they could make it a temporary damage output done by Decoy, only activated by Switch Teleporting either the Decoy into range of enemies, or an enemy into range of the Decoy.

Quote

Radial Disarm-
As mentioned in "Decoy", Radial Disarm could be cast by Decoy as well, and could either buff Decoy's damage output, or provide the damage output in the first place, if DE/fans don't want it doing damage by default.

"Which would admittedly make it less of a decoy and more of a Clone": No. Anything that successfully lures or entices a target to come to (or go after) it is a decoy, whether it deals damage or not.

 

I already mentioned thematic concerns and survivability issues of decoys with non-scaling health, so here is something new:

This proposed synergy wouldn't make either group happy. Both groups would need to jump through or avoid the hoops you have created in an attempt to try and appease them both. And if Decoys were indeed changed to deal scaling damage, why even try to create ways to avoid it? For those that would not want them to change that much, the damage would already be done.

Quote

Invisibility-
Have Invisibility alter the behavior of Switch Teleport, so that the enemy isn't aggro'd or alerted after being teleported, but is rather just extremely confused. Alternatively, make it imbue them with a maxed-out, long-lasting Radiation proc, so that they've been simply "driven mad", and if their former allies put them down and out of their misery, no alert/alarm is raised.
Invisibility could also make it so that a newly cast Decoy won't attack unless it is attacked first, until Loki's Invisibility wears off, or until Loki uses a Radial Disarm.
Invisibility could also make it so that Switch Teleport becomes just a Teleport-and-replace, when used on his Decoys.

The first portion would be a welcome change to the "alert states" that stealth mechanics have.

This second part feels like a rather niche scenario, and would be dependent on the alert state of the enemy. "Threat Level" mechanics come into play if they are already alerted, and Decoys exude threat in a set radius whether they are attacking or not.

"Teleport-and-replace"? Do you mean it would refresh the duration of that decoy?

Quote

Upgrading Decoy to either do damage by default, or only via using Switch Teleport and/or Radial Disarm, and by being able to modify the behaviors/outcomes of Decoy and Switch Teleport by using Invisibility, and having an Exilus mod option available to disable all of the synergies, would allow people to find either a drastically increased amount of engagement in Loki's abilities and how they interact, or allow them to play him in a virtually unchanged manner.

Obviously DE could/would decide on how any and all of the numbers work out, or which specific options out of the several presented here, could be utilized. And you're all free to have an opinion on any of this. But I personally think that at least applying even just 1 of the changes here, would make for a fun update to Loki's kit. I just know that I'm never going to use the Helminth System to apply Loki's Decoy to another Warframe, if all it does is draw a bit of aggro, have both a health and duration-based limit, and just tickle enemies with puncture and/or impact procs, so clearly the ability could use a facelift, imo.

Overall, I'm just not a big fan of the direction you seem to want to go with Loki. But you do you.

 

IMO:

Spoiler

1. Make Decoy a target-cast that gives a targeted enemy the functional equivalent of a Radiation proc for the duration, but they are "immune" to player damage for the duration. Up to 3 enemy can be Decoyed at a time. Visually, Loki casts the "illusion" that the targeted enemy looks like Loki.
   1. Savior Decoy may need a little tweaking to work, perhaps giving a short "invisibility" (or "mask") when the swap occurs and targeting the nearest (or furthest) Decoy for the swap.
   2. Deceptive Bond would function one-way, transferring damage dealt to Loki (or Helminth-infused Warframe) towards a Decoy.
   • It may not be doing tons of damage, but it would be more than just basic IPS procs of the current Decoy. And you could be selective in which enemy you want to turn into a Decoy, allowing for specific damage type/procs or special abilities. Plus, they would almost always survive for the entire duration.
   • While Enthrall and Mind Control function similarly, each end up fulfilling a different role. Decoy continues to be a defensive tool, having improved capabilities (DR or "extra life") with the use of an augment.
2. Instead of Invisibility, Loki should "mask" his appearance to look like a generic enemy of the opposing faction (Lancer, Crewman, Runner, Corrupted Lancer, Battalyst). Press to cast this "mask", hold to cast Switch Teleport. If an enemy is targeted for the hold-cast, they become a Decoy.
   1. Hushed Invisibility could still work, or be dumped if DE treats "gunplay" as silent (non-alerting) to same-side factions.
   2. Safeguard Switch could be moved to this ability for the hold-to-cast portion. 
   • I've always thought this form of illusion-based trickery would fit Loki better than plain invisibility, but it would certainly require some faction-swap identity finagling.
   • Bonus points for still being able to create a Decoy if you choose to subsume the Decoy ability (like Khora being able to keep Venari).
3. Free Ability slot that DE could fill with something fresh and new.
   • Loki's skills are rather "empty" in comparison to other Warframe skills, so I figured one could be folded into another with minimal overall loss to that ability.
4. Make Irradiating Disarm the default state of Radial Disarm
   1. Irradiating Disarm augment is renamed, and changed to increase incoming damage to affected enemies.

 

 

[Aldain]

I'd lump Decoy and Switch Teleport together, make Decoy actually able to take a hit and make Switch Teleport a hold-cast that strips armor/shields from the target and applies those stats to Loki for a short time (if swapped to an ally Loki gets a buff based upon the stats of the ally swapped to instead).

Then give him an actual 3rd ability, not sure what but right now he has 2.5 abilities at best (yes, Decoy and ST are both only 0.25 of an ability in my eyes).

[Grav_Starstrider]

1 hour ago, Aldain said:

I'd lump Decoy and Switch Teleport together, make Decoy actually able to take a hit and make Switch Teleport a hold-cast that strips armor/shields from the target and applies those stats to Loki for a short time (if swapped to an ally Loki gets a buff based upon the stats of the ally swapped to instead).

Then give him an actual 3rd ability, not sure what but right now he has 2.5 abilities at best (yes, Decoy and ST are both only 0.25 of an ability in my eyes).

Isn't that why each of them only cost 25 energy at base?

 

2 hours ago, MasterBurik said:

• Make Decoy a target-cast that gives a targeted enemy the functional equivalent of a Radiation proc for the duration, but they are "immune" to player damage for the duration. Up to 3 enemy can be Decoyed at a time. Visually, Loki casts the "illusion" that the targeted enemy looks like Loki.
  1. Savior Decoy may need a little tweaking to work, perhaps giving a short "invisibility" (or "mask") when the swap occurs and targeting the nearest (or furthest) Decoy for the swap.
  2. Deceptive Bond would function one-way, transferring damage dealt to Loki (or Helminth-infused Warframe) towards a Decoy.
  • It may not be doing tons of damage, but it would be more than just basic IPS procs of the current Decoy. And you could be selective in which enemy you want to turn into a Decoy, allowing for specific damage type/procs or special abilities. Plus, they would almost always survive for the entire duration.
  • While Enthrall and Mind Control function similarly, each end up fulfilling a different role. Decoy continues to be a defensive tool, having improved capabilities (DR or "extra life") with the use of an augment.
• Instead of Invisibility, Loki should "mask" his appearance to look like a generic enemy of the opposing faction (Lancer, Crewman, Runner, Corrupted Lancer, Battalyst). Press to cast this "mask", hold to cast Switch Teleport. If an enemy is targeted for the hold-cast, they become a Decoy.
  1. Hushed Invisibility could still work, or be dumped if DE treats "gunplay" as silent (non-alerting) to same-side factions.
  2. Safeguard Switch could be moved to this ability for the hold-to-cast portion. 
  • I've always thought this form of illusion-based trickery would fit Loki better than plain invisibility, but it would certainly require some faction-swap identity finagling.
  • Bonus points for still being able to create a Decoy if you choose to subsume the Decoy ability (like Khora being able to keep Venari).
• Free Ability slot that DE could fill with something fresh and new.
  • Loki's skills are rather "empty" in comparison to other Warframe skills, so I figured one could be folded into another with minimal overall loss to that ability.
• Make Irradiating Disarm the default state of Radial Disarm
  1. Irradiating Disarm augment is renamed, and changed to increase incoming damage to affected enemies.

Too good to hide!

I'm always a fan of multi-functionality like your hold-to-cast roll-together of Disguise/Invisibility, love it in other Warframes. I would easily choose your recommended kit over Loki's current kit!

If I had one thought, it might be that the... Complete removal of Invisibility would really kinda kill Loki's current niche of speed-running spy vaults while invisible. I'd wonder if I could refine my suggestions further based on your critique... To start with though,

2 hours ago, MasterBurik said:

This proposed synergy wouldn't make either group happy. Both groups would need to jump through or avoid the hoops you have created in an attempt to try and appease them both. And if Decoys were indeed changed to deal scaling damage, why even try to create ways to avoid it? For those that would not want them to change that much, the damage would already be done.

Aren't my recommendations for making the default behaviors mostly the same, basically a means of addressing this? I figure that making it so that Decoy, Invisibility, Switch Teleport, and Radial Disarm are all basically just better than they currently are by default, with additional options that can be opted out of via extremely minor gameplay tweaks or a single mod, would have appeased the Loki players that want his kit unchanged. Of course, this is dependent upon if/how DE chooses to implement any of these suggestions. I had definitely forgotten about hold-to-casts though. Wouldn't making a number of my suggestions be hold-to-cast adjustments to the ability, rather than synergy-dependent or modding-dependent or baseline changes to the abilities?

If I was going to do my best to tweak my suggestions with your feedback/suggestions in mind...

 

I might recommend DE change the following for Loki.

Decoy: Does damage by default (not by a lot, but make their health and damage scale with enemy level, to be consistently at least contributing a small amount in drawing aggro, being a meatshield decoy, and doing at least a smidge of damage or inflicting more varied/desired procs based on your weapon modding). Still thematically serves the purpose of being a Decoy and does little to change or remove functionality, only improving. To make this still be an ability that justifies a cost of only 25 energy, I'd reduce your recommendations down to making a single enemy a fleeing Decoy (Kavor-style AI, fearful run-and-gunning), so that it's not a blatantly better version of Mind Control, Enthrall, etc., but rather be it's own thing. If DE thought it worth having more power though, they could feel free to make the cap higher, like up to 3 Decoy'ed enemies and a Loki Decoy.

Invisibility: I'd vote for giving Loki both your Disguise recommendation, as well as his normal Invisibility, either one could be made the hold-to-cast. Disguise could last a lot longer, encasing you in the targeted enemy's mesh in a similar manner as Nyx holograms surround Chaos'ed enemies, letting you sneak right past guards and cameras, but not laser-wires. If they wanted to keep this Disguise option more limited, they could implement mobility limitations like Ivara suffers, where you are capped at the enemy's max sprint speed and normal jumps, or using interactables like Ziplines, but double jumping and bullet jumping will break Disguise. On the opposite end of the spectrum, Invisibility is comparatively shorter (the normal length), but not only allows Bullet and Double Jumps and Aim Glides, but boosts these mobility options a smidge (small parkour boost).

Switch Teleport: Make this afflict enemy targets with his Decoy cast effects by default. Make charge-casts against enemies substitute you in their place already-Disguised.

Radial Disarm: I really like the thought of adding a synergy between Radial Disarm and Decoy, making (Irradiated/)Radial Disarm be mimicked by the Loki Decoy casting it if present. Maybe they could(/should) also, or alternatively roll Irradiated Disarm's damage and status procs into the base functionality of Radial Disarm, and make the augment "Appropriating Disarm" where it boosts the damage of Loki (and his Decoy[s]) dependent upon enemy level and how many units were disarmed.

If DE felt ambitious, they could make a Discord Meter for Loki, where the more he has forced enemies to fight each other, the more of either duration, efficiency, or evasion, he has, or some combination thereof, since he has no way of directly recovering energy for himself, and just to give him more passive flavor than "He clings to walls longer" which is honestly just a really lackluster passive. Maybe he has an easier time of keeping it above a certain threshold by simply passively having a chance of him or his abilities causing radiation procs, above a certain point on the Discord meter, helping feed itself once he's built up the momentum. Truly, he'd be a trickster god, with this passive and these upgrades. I think there's a lot of room in here for DE to play with the numbers, or opt out of certain features or suggestions, or picking one alternative over another, while still leaving Loki's base kit almost entirely unchanged. I don't think this version of suggestions would even require they add the functionality-altering exilus mod to justify the changes.

I personally found the idea of ditching invisibility altogether felt really off. What would you think of this alteration? It also doesn't require DE or us to think of an entirely different new ability, while "filling them up" so they don't feel as "empty". Switch Teleport connects to Decoy and Invisibility/Disguise with this configuration, and Decoy has a synergy with Radial Disarm.

Love to know what you think, since you had a bunch of the thoughts!

edit: had a thought. Making Switch Teleport cost the same amount as a Decoy cast, while making it perform the same thing as Decoy, seems silly. Especially if we propose Loki having an energy efficiency-affecting passive meter, or even just giving him all of these buffs and options. So I'd probably propose making Switch Teleport into a 50-energy-cost ability, and make it either half cost or free when used on Decoys, adding the cost of the Disguise or Invisibility for hold-casts on top of that.... Lots of options.

[Aldain]

1 hour ago, Grav_Starstrider said:

Isn't that why each of them only cost 25 energy at base?

The point is that Switch Teleport is taking an entire slot for something that could be a hold action on another ability.

Decoy and Switch Teleport as they are also don't do enough to warrant taking up 2 of the 4 ability slots that Loki has, they need to have buffs that make them actually worth using outside of the niche of "Put the Decoy where it can't be shot" and "Switch Teleport one heavy out of a crowd for some reason", Loki is the only frame that seems to be just stuck in the closed beta in terms of design.

[Grav_Starstrider]

Just now, Aldain said:

The point is that Switch Teleport is taking an entire slot for something that could be a hold action on another ability.

Decoy and Switch Teleport as they are also don't do enough to warrant taking up 2 of the 4 ability slots that Loki has, they need to have buffs that make them actually worth using outside of the niche of "Put the Decoy where it can't be shot" and "Switch Teleport one heavy out of a crowd for some reason", Loki is the only frame that seems to be just stuck in the closed beta in terms of design.

I just updated my suggestions and responses. How does Decoy being enemy-scaling for health and damage, having multiple enemy decoys in addition to the Loki Decoy, being another node for a Radial Disarm to be cast from (like Wukong), having an Augment available to boost it's damage output, and having Switch Teleport have Decoy baked into it, with options to Disguise Loki as an enemy or use his Invisibility, for the same cast, sound?

[Aldain]

12 minutes ago, Grav_Starstrider said:

How does Decoy being enemy-scaling for health and damage, having multiple enemy decoys in addition to the Loki Decoy, being another node for a Radial Disarm to be cast from (like Wukong), having an Augment available to boost it's damage output, and having Switch Teleport have Decoy baked into it, with options to Disguise Loki as an enemy or use his Invisibility, for the same cast, sound?

Under any other circumstance that would be one of those excessive laundry lists of ability buffs that are often taken as a joke, but considering the current state of Decoy and Switch Teleport it actually is about just how much would need to be done to make it more worth using.

The Switch Telport segment might be a bit overkill, I'd still say it would be better to steal armor/shields from the enemy target or borrow them from an ally instead; and making it deal damage isn't what I'd go for for the Decoy Augment, maybe make it so that the enemy that kills the Decoy inherits the aggro of the Decoy instead.

As for a replacement third ability, I wouldn't know quite where to start, somebody who is more familiar with Loki's Mythology would likely be better for that.

[Tyreaus]

While I would certainly not call myself a Loki main, I do feel giving his kit direct damage is a bit misguided in terms of theme. That's more of Ash's domain, whereas elements like armour stripping and damage vulnerability increases make more sense on Loki. He sort of fits like the inverse of Octavia: where she buffs allies (with some CC), he debuffs enemies. That, I feel, is probably the better direction to go for Loki.

Casting Decoy on enemies does seem to step on Nyx's toes a bit. That said, the hologram probably should either be invulnerable or have scaling health to be massively durable (personally, I lean toward the former). As above: the decoy dealing damage doesn't seem fitting.

I don't see the Disguise idea being terribly well-used for how similar it is to Invisibility. It sounds like decaffeinated Invisibility with a longer duration, and it's the sort of thing - in the heat of the moment - I feel most players are going to forget is a thing. It makes more sense for that concept to be innate to Switch Teleport: switch with an enemy, take their appearance in the same instant.

As for Switch Teleport itself, some kind of debuff or armour strip or finisher opening - something of that sort - feels along the right lines. Perhaps as a hold-cast, if the regular Switch Teleport comes with the disguise.

I do agree about Radial Disarm having synergy with Decoy.

That said, I feel like it needs more weight on the aforementioned enemy debuffing side. Even with these changes, his kit largely amounts to mild enemy CC - it's effectively what he has now with a few extra bells and whistles. That doesn't really fix the issues with his kit being ineffective, especially when compared to Vauban or even Octavia, it just puts some sprinkles on top.

[MasterBurik]

1 minute ago, Grav_Starstrider said:

Too good to hide!

I'm always a fan of multi-functionality like your hold-to-cast roll-together of Disguise/Invisibility, love it in other Warframes. I would easily choose your recommended kit over Loki's current kit!

If I had one thought, it might be that the... Complete removal of Invisibility would really kinda kill Loki's current niche of speed-running spy vaults while invisible. I'd wonder if I could refine my suggestions further based on your critique... To start with though,

"Speed-run"-wise, Nova trumps Loki if you have the skill. Most of a Spy mission is travelling between the objectives, enemy units have trouble detecting "teleporting" players (ever try spamming in and out of operator mode?), and their alert state can often be reset when they "teleport" ahead to become "fresh" enemy units.

If DE's "invisibility" mechanics work the way I think they do, you aren't exactly "ditching invisibility" so much as changing the visuals to better fit part of the theme that derives from Loki the Norse god. While the "illusion" is active, you would essentially be "invisible" to the enemy (including lasers and cameras). Shoot an enemy or let the duration run out, and the "illusion" breaks (more or less as it would with invisibility). Otherwise, do as you please for its duration. There are plenty of enemy units with "odd" mobility and naturally destructive talents that wander around the ship when unalerted, so a bullet-jumping Lancer shouldn't be that odd to them. Or perhaps they just don't "see" that happening...at which point it is just "invisibility with better visuals". 😉

But if DE really had to curb its mobility...the loss of bullet-jumps and wall-running wouldn't be that bad, so long as he could still fully utilize sprint, jump, and slide. It's not like you wouldn't be able to recast the "illusion" before entering the vaults.

Quote

Decoy: Does damage by default (not by a lot, but make their health and damage scale with enemy level, to be consistently at least contributing a small amount in drawing aggro, being a meatshield decoy, and doing at least a smidge of damage or inflicting more varied/desired procs based on your weapon modding). Still thematically serves the purpose of being a Decoy and does little to change or remove functionality, only improving. To make this still be an ability that justifies a cost of only 25 energy, I'd reduce your recommendations down to making a single enemy a fleeing Decoy (Kavor-style AI, fearful run-and-gunning), so that it's not a blatantly better version of Mind Control, Enthrall, etc., but rather be it's own thing. If DE thought it worth having more power though, they could feel free to make the cap higher, like up to 3 Decoy'ed enemies and a Loki Decoy.

I like it better than the original suggestion.

 

In regards to cost justification:

If enemy Decoys were to function the way I hope, they would be more visually distinct than Enthralled enemies (aka, they would be "masked" with Loki holo-decoys). If they were, I would prefer to remove the "immunity" caveat placed on it instead. Being able to create multiple decoys at once just feels more versatile to me. The "immunity" was something I tacked on, more as a "just in case" than anything else.

As a half-step between nothing and gaining "immunity", Decoys could gain additional temporary health like the Well of Life used to (pre-Helminth/Deimos update). That would at least give them some survivability vs. AoE spamming teammates.

Quote

Invisibility: I'd vote for giving Loki both your Disguise recommendation, as well as his normal Invisibility, either one could be made the hold-to-cast. Disguise could last a lot longer, encasing you in the targeted enemy's mesh in a similar manner as Nyx holograms surround Chaos'ed enemies, letting you sneak right past guards and cameras, but not laser-wires. If they wanted to keep this Disguise option more limited, they could implement mobility limitations like Ivara suffers, where you are capped at the enemy's max sprint speed and normal jumps, or using interactables like Ziplines, but double jumping and bullet jumping will break Disguise. On the opposite end of the spectrum, Invisibility is comparatively shorter (the normal length), but not only allows Bullet and Double Jumps and Aim Glides, but boosts these mobility options a smidge (small parkour boost).

If you had access to both in a single ability slot, why would you use Disguise (especially if it could not bypass lasers)?

Quote

Switch Teleport: Make this afflict enemy targets with his Decoy cast effects by default. Make charge-casts against enemies substitute you in their place already-Disguised.

When I gave Switch Teleport the ability to make enemy targets a Decoy, it was the hold-to-cast counterpart of my "illusion/mask" version of Invisibility. That increased its base energy cost to 50, so I needed to give it additional traits.

If standalone Switch Teleport can create a Decoy by default, why have the Decoy ability? They both have a base cost of 25 Energy.

Disguise tied to Invisibility would seemingly have a base cost of 50 Energy. Is the charge-cast for Switch Teleport more expensive to compensate?

Quote

Radial Disarm: I really like the thought of adding a synergy between Radial Disarm and Decoy, making (Irradiated/)Radial Disarm be mimicked by the Loki Decoy casting it if present. Maybe they could(/should) also, or alternatively roll Irradiated Disarm's damage and status procs into the base functionality of Radial Disarm, and make the augment "Appropriating Disarm" where it boosts the damage of Loki (and his Decoy[s]) dependent upon enemy level and how many units were disarmed.

Rolling Irradiated Disarm into base Radial Disarm would certainly be better than it is now. As for the augment, plain self-buffing damage feels a bit "off" thematically.

Because Loki was a cunning trickster:

• Radial Fervor: Enemies (in range) receive X% increased damage from all sources for X duration. Allies and enemies (in range) receive +X% melee damage for X duration.

Quote

If DE felt ambitious, they could make a Discord Meter for Loki, where the more he has forced enemies to fight each other, the more of either duration, efficiency, or evasion, he has, or some combination thereof, since he has no way of directly recovering energy for himself, and just to give him more passive flavor than "He clings to walls longer" which is honestly just a really lackluster passive. Maybe he has an easier time of keeping it above a certain threshold by simply passively having a chance of him or his abilities causing radiation procs, above a certain point on the Discord meter, helping feed itself once he's built up the momentum. Truly, he'd be a trickster god, with this passive and these upgrades. I think there's a lot of room in here for DE to play with the numbers, or opt out of certain features or suggestions, or picking one alternative over another, while still leaving Loki's base kit almost entirely unchanged. I don't think this version of suggestions would even require they add the functionality-altering exilus mod to justify the changes.

The wall latch isn't horrible if you lean into it a bit with certain mods and arcanes, but a better passive would certainly be nice.

I'm not sure about a Discord Meter though. It sounds like an overly dressed version of Ember's reworked passive, but with Radiation procs and "not Ability Strength". That isn't to say it is bad...just that it doesn't need to be so fancified. Some of the best passives are rather simplistic in regards to how they mechanically function.

[LuckyCharm]

As a Loki main, the only real thing I feel he needs are a few things that other frames already have. 

1- His decoy needs to revert to being duration only not hp and actually attract enemy fire. The fact it barely attracts enemy agro while active ruins the whole point of it, and that it has hp just means it drops in seconds as soon as you invis.  It's a hologram, it should NOT be taking damage. 

2. His invisibility needs to be recastable while its still going. There's literally no reason why frames like octavia can re-invis themselves for longer durations and still be invis during their casts if loki has to drop out of his to recast. 

3. Switch teleport needs to stop giving that "target is obstructed" bs it does now. It never used to  do that when swapping with your clones and it just ruins the whole reason for even having it as an ability if its not able to do what you need it to do. 

4. Radial disarm is fine. 

 

 That's all he really needs. Besides the invisibility thing, its just reverts. He was stronger in the past because he could do more than he can now. Given the state of power creep, he's now underpowered because he can't do what he used to thanks to unneeded nerfs

[(PSN)Sentiel]

Now, I'm not a Loki main, heck I rarely even tough the frame, but I still like it. You see, Loki Prime was the first frame I saw, even before I started playing Warframe and immediately liked how it looks a lot. When I finally tried it in the game itself, I was disappointed by his kit, which is the reason why I don't use Loki.

In short, other Stealth frames do the same thing Loki does but better and his trickster theme is not properly expanded into.

His Decoy is useless because it dies nearly instantly after it's cast. HP scaling would help, or make it outright invulnerable. Alternatively, it could be cast on an enemy to make other enemies attack that particular enemy, making them think it's Loki, while they will instead think Loki is one of them. This fits the trickster theme perfectly.

His Switch Teleport is a useless ability. Ash has nearly identical ability that kills the enemy. This just displaces the enemy, which does nothing. Perhaps if Loki could choose an enemy and teleport them elsewhere, it could be useful. Imagine placing the other end of the teleport, where the enemy will end, as an item (button hold) and teleport enemies there (button press). You could teleport an enemy into a trap, into your friends abilities, or just hurl them off a cliff. Again, much better solution and fits the trickster theme. There's synergy with his Decoy too, since you could use the Decoy on an enemy and then teleport it elsewhere, the other enemies would follow it.

His invisibility is good as it is but I would remove the colour filter. It's straining to the eyes and unnecessary. 

His Radial Disarm is good as it is.

[Ishredpapers]

How about leave Loki alone because he's already a great frame with perfect abilities, invisibility, clone, reverse teleport which helps get around lazors in spy missions together with your clone which is great and radial disarm (which if modded for range is absolutely awesome). It's because of people like you, that we get "fixes" and "improvements" nobody asked for.

 

 

[(PSN)NoTrollGaming]

8 hours ago, Grav_Starstrider said:

Would you say you "Mained him" and found some of these suggestions inoffensive? Cuz that's what I was going and hoping for :p 

Yeah I did main him back then, but no I do like these suggestions, the meter thing from making enemies attack each other seems cool and they could do something like that

but I don’t think his decoy needs to scale with health , I think it should just be invincible considering it is a hologram so the attacks go through it

[Grav_Starstrider]

7 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

Casting Decoy on enemies does seem to step on Nyx's toes a bit.

A'ight but like. Nyx needs her 1 and 3 to not be ridiculously worse versions of Revenant's Thralls already XD. Nyx's Mind Control should not set the bar for abilities, I don't think there's hardly anyone who was actually excited when they saw Decoy and Mind Control on the Helminth list.

6 hours ago, LuckyCharm said:

His invisibility needs to be recastable while its still going. There's literally no reason why frames like octavia can re-invis themselves for longer durations and still be invis during their casts if loki has to drop out of his to recast. 

6 hours ago, (PS4)Sentiel said:

His Switch Teleport is a useless ability. Ash has nearly identical ability that kills the enemy. This just displaces the enemy, which does nothing.

Ivara has to either keep up the energy (admittedly trivial) or uncloak somewhere to recover energy, Octavia has to T-Bag, and Ash is in the same boat of not being able to recast while invisible, they're set up to be "bursts of activity during tactically chosen times", not "permanent invisibility forever". You're really comparing apples to oranges with other invisibilities that aren't Ash's Smokescreen. Ash's does a stagger and finisher exposure, Ivara's makes you slower or more restricted in movements, and I'd argue that Octavia's is overtuned. That's why I've provided the suggestions of buffs to Parkour/Mobility with Invisibility, and/or longer-lasting Disguise, so that this "lack of recastability" isn't as punishing, but can rather be played around. And "Switch Teleport" being a worse Ash Teleport is exactly why I've suggested and been in agreement with other people, that it should either Decoy the enemy swapped, or make Loki be in Disguise, so that it has more utility.

8 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

As for Switch Teleport itself, some kind of debuff or armour strip or finisher opening - something of that sort - feels along the right lines. Perhaps as a hold-cast, if the regular Switch Teleport comes with the disguise.

The more people are saying it, the more I could see Disguise being the default outcome of using a Switch Teleport on an enemy, and I agree with it doing more to the enemy by default (because moving them anywhere outside of a kill-pit is.... Close to useless?), that's why I recommend it afflicting them with the Decoy effects upon switch.

I'm glad someone else likes the Radial Disarm being mimicked by the Decoy(s)!

6 hours ago, MasterBurik said:

If you had access to both in a single ability slot, why would you use Disguise (especially if it could not bypass lasers)?

Just as additional options, and so that you could, at a leisurely pace, walk up to the different hacking consoles, rather than have to more aggressively watch your invisibility timer. Once again, I'm mostly trying to add options rather than change options, so that people like this guy below don't get upset :p

Speaking of.

5 hours ago, Ishredpapers said:

How about leave Loki alone because he's already a great frame with perfect abilities, invisibility, clone, reverse teleport which helps get around lazors in spy missions together with your clone which is great and radial disarm (which if modded for range is absolutely awesome). It's because of people like you, that we get "fixes" and "improvements" nobody asked for.

I was thinking most/all of my suggestions basically removed or changed nothing about the base abilities in a meaningful way :V Can you give a little more constructive feedback, so that we know why you're saying this? Do the suggested changes to Decoy (basically just suggesting added damage and Radial Disarm and either health scaling or invincibility), Invisibility (just adding a Disguise option), Switch Teleport (basically just adding free Decoy casts), or Radial Disarm (basically just wanting it upgraded, since it's one of the worst 4's in the game), would any of these changes actually negatively or radically change your gameplay? Do you have recommendations for giving them special conditions for certain functionalities to occur? I know there'll be more people like you who are worried about changing things just for the sake of changing them, and that's why my recommendations have been attempts to keep his core kit virtually unchanged and unmodified.

4 hours ago, (PS4)NoTrollGaming said:

I don’t think his decoy needs to scale with health , I think it should just be invincible considering it is a hologram so the attacks go through it

6 hours ago, (PS4)Sentiel said:

His Decoy is useless because it dies nearly instantly after it's cast. HP scaling would help, or make it outright invulnerable. Alternatively, it could be cast on an enemy to make other enemies attack that particular enemy, making them think it's Loki, while they will instead think Loki is one of them. This fits the trickster theme perfectly.

6 hours ago, LuckyCharm said:

His decoy needs to revert to being duration only not hp and actually attract enemy fire. The fact it barely attracts enemy agro while active ruins the whole point of it, and that it has hp just means it drops in seconds as soon as you invis.  It's a hologram, it should NOT be taking damage.

Agreed, I hate the way it works for Chroma's Effigy too, it's bad enough for these abilities to be bottlenecked by one stat, like Duration/Efficiency, but to have them additionally bottlenecked by Health that can't be scaled up either at all, or as easily, makes the abilities basically not exist at higher levels, because they just get peppered by several heavy gunners, bombards, or napalms (or in Loki's Decoy's case, a stray sneeze), and the ability (and the energy you spent on it) is gone. And Sentiel, we have been suggesting options for either Switch Teleport, Decoy, or "Disguise" doing things to those effects, and I'm all in favor of at least one of those changes/buffs being added.

I came away from this draft a while ago and came back, so I may have lost my train of thought, or willingness to respond to everyone about every single thing. But I look forward to more responses or feedback!

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

I really only think his Decoy could use some type of health boost or take the incoming damage after 3-5 seconds and add to its health.

Switch teleport has some great niche uses, and I personally don't think it needs changing. For example, the fight against Fossa I think it was? Where the bursas come down from above and you hack them. Well one of them was stuck up there and I teleported it down to us, hacked it, and it was the last one we needed. You can also use your decoy and teleport to it past spy lasers as well. 

Disarm obviously needs to stay, Loki and Mesa are incredibly valuable for being able to stop 1000 bullets flying at you from different angles. I personally use it all the time, especially in the Void and Mot.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

11 hours ago, Ishredpapers said:

How about leave Loki alone because he's already a great frame with perfect abilities, invisibility, clone, reverse teleport which helps get around lazors in spy missions together with your clone which is great and radial disarm (which if modded for range is absolutely awesome). It's because of people like you, that we get "fixes" and "improvements" nobody asked for.

 

 

I agree.

[Grav_Starstrider]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

I really only think his Decoy could use some type of health boost or take the incoming damage after 3-5 seconds and add to its health.

Switch teleport has some great niche uses, and I personally don't think it needs changing. For example, the fight against Fossa I think it was? Where the bursas come down from above and you hack them. Well one of them was stuck up there and I teleported it down to us, hacked it, and it was the last one we needed. You can also use your decoy and teleport to it past spy lasers as well. 

Disarm obviously needs to stay, Loki and Mesa are incredibly valuable for being able to stop 1000 bullets flying at you from different angles. I personally use it all the time, especially in the Void and Mot.

I don't think anyone here has been recommending that Switch Teleport or Disarm would be removed outright, they're still there and basically the same, in our suggestions. Same with Decoy. We've just been suggesting additional effects and functionality added to them. I just want to know why you feel so negatively about the changes, as more accurate inputs from more players would help me (and DE) know how to update Loki to be almost universally more appealing, without compromising his current playstyles. Because a lot of people think that without Raids and such, he's lost a lot of his utility and place in the game, and is increasingly overshadowed by other Warframes. Do you dislike how suggested extending Decoy to be an altered multi-target-capable Mind Control in addition to the normal Holographic Loki, and doing some damage since doing only CC is a bit stale for the current gameplay? Or how we're kicking around the idea of adding a Disguise or Decoy-applying feature to Switch Teleport? Cuz I think my current suggestions for his rework doesn't change or remove his basic features in any way, just adds additional options, perks, and benefits to the existing playstyles.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

3 minutes ago, Grav_Starstrider said:

I don't think anyone here has been recommending that Switch Teleport or Disarm would be removed outright, they're still there and basically the same, in our suggestions. Same with Decoy. We've just been suggesting additional effects and functionality added to them. I just want to know why you feel so negatively about the changes, as more accurate inputs from more players would help me (and DE) know how to update Loki to be almost universally more appealing, without compromising his current playstyles. Because a lot of people think that without Raids and such, he's lost a lot of his utility and place in the game, and is increasingly overshadowed by other Warframes. Do you dislike how suggested extending Decoy to be an altered multi-target-capable Mind Control in addition to the normal Holographic Loki, and doing some damage since doing only CC is a bit stale for the current gameplay? Or how we're kicking around the idea of adding a Disguise or Decoy-applying feature to Switch Teleport? Cuz I think my current suggestions for his rework doesn't change or remove his basic features in any way, just adds additional options, perks, and benefits to the existing playstyles.

I think letting decoy do some damage with his pistol, even letting the decoy use your equipped weapon, being able to proc some status or do some damage or absorbing damage to then release it as an aoe sleep or damage type once he dies can work. We have 3 weapons to be really dangerous with Loki, though. There's already enough dps centered frames and we don't really need another simplified cookie cutter dps spam.

Every warframe isn't for a raid or group setting, either. Not everyone plays in group settings 24/7 and CC is still very much useful, especially in solo settings or pre-made group settings at higher levels. He can still perform in groups, but that is dependent on the group. He is very much useful now to the people know how to use him and don't see the point of balancing him around groups that may just want to compete in damage for fun, as there are multiple frames and other synergies for that.

I don't understand the use of a disguise, when we already have stealth. It's just a stealth that the enemy sees and doesn't react to....still making it stealth...if you killed an enemy in a disguise, it would still alert other enemies if seen.

Placing multiple decoys does seem like a good idea, though. But I don't see the reason for mind control, personally. I wouldn't need to control someone's mind when I'm already stealth or have ways of tricking them with my teleport or decoy.

I don't really agree with much else, sorry. I have arcanes for parkour, and I really like his current passive. There are mods that synergize with wall latching and even an arcane that gives weapon damage when wall latching. Some environments are great for wall latching like the void tilesets for example.

[Grav_Starstrider]

21 hours ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

I think letting decoy do some damage with his pistol, even letting the decoy use your equipped weapon, being able to proc some status or do some damage or absorbing damage to then release it as an aoe sleep or damage type once he dies can work. We have 3 weapons to be really dangerous with Loki, though. There's already enough dps centered frames and we don't really need another simplified cookie cutter dps spam.

Every warframe isn't for a raid or group setting, either. Not everyone plays in group settings 24/7 and CC is still very much useful, especially in solo settings or pre-made group settings at higher levels. He can still perform in groups, but that is dependent on the group. He is very much useful now to the people know how to use him and don't see the point of balancing him around groups that may just want to compete in damage for fun, as there are multiple frames and other synergies for that.

I don't understand the use of a disguise, when we already have stealth. It's just a stealth that the enemy sees and doesn't react to....still making it stealth...if you killed an enemy in a disguise, it would still alert other enemies if seen.

Placing multiple decoys does seem like a good idea, though. But I don't see the reason for mind control, personally. I wouldn't need to control someone's mind when I'm already stealth or have ways of tricking them with my teleport or decoy.

I don't really agree with much else, sorry. I have arcanes for parkour, and I really like his current passive. There are mods that synergize with wall latching and even an arcane that gives weapon damage when wall latching. Some environments are great for wall latching like the void tilesets for example.

I suppose I should clarify that the point of the Disguise is that it could have a longer duration than Invisibility, with some negative mobility tradeoffs, and that it could cause the enemies to not trust each other (stop working in formation, causing the Discord Meter to go up) or even shoot each other (at a high amount of Discord, also keeping the Discord high) when you use it to fight them and their allies. And my suggested additions to Decoy is less Mind Control, and more that they get Hologram-cloaked as a Loki Decoy, the enemies fire upon them, and in confusion and fear, they run away, shooting their allies back, as they don't know what to do (using AI similar to the Kavor in Defection, movement focused rather than making a stand and fighting with composure or purpose). It really would be making enemies into Decoys, rather than mind-controlling them.

Fair though, on the rest, we don't all have to agree on everything. I just think that it's a pity if a Warframe is an inherently terrible pick for 90% of random comps in a PvE game, and I'd just hope that DE sees some things almost everyone can agree with (giving Decoy more than only IPS procs, making it so that multiple can be cast, whether standalone or over mobile enemies) could at least be implemented on him. Anything to make him a bit more attractive to play across the board, for basically all users. And to spice up his really sad Helminth offering.

[Azamagon]

Not entirely sure if I would agreed to all those suggestions. If I may, here's some other suggestions:

Decoy

• Casting changes = Recast the ability midduration to kill the Decoy manually (Note: You now need to cast twice to place a new decoy midduration, as the first "recast" only kills the first)
  • This is both for stealth-reasons (to remove aggro on the map) and for the new additions below.
• Effect changes = When the Decoy dies (be it by losing health, expiring in time or with the manual "detonation"), the Decoy blinds enemies in 3/4/5/6 meter radius (Radius-moddable) for 4/5/6/7 seconds (Duration-moddable), which opens up enemies for finishers. Also, upon the 2-ish seconds of placing a Decoy, the Decoy is immortal (during which damage taken is converted to health, ala Snow Globe and Molt etc)
• Augment = Savior Decoy = This augment now also buffs the blinding radius by X%.
• Augment = Deceptive Bond = In PvE, the Decoy just absorbs damage from Loki (i.e. the Decoy-to-Loki damage is removed)

Invisibility

• Personally, I'm quite fine with this one as it is, but the Disguise option is neat I guess? Let him cast abilities while Disguised though, so he can really sow some chaos. Also, I'd make Disguise just cost 25 energy, since it's weaker than Invisibility.
• If anything though: Casting changes = Recast the ability midduration to end it early (allowing a recast afterwards).

Switch Teleport

• Casting changes:
  • Tap cast = Same as now
  • Hold cast = Teleport to your Decoy without needing to target the Decoy, as long as the Decoy is within casting range. This works even through walls, as long as it doesn't "backwards progress" you during particular scripted fights and such.
• Effect changes:
  • On ally = If Loki casts it on an ally, the ally gets a lengthy survivability buff (Be it damage reduction or evasion, doesn't matter), and Loki gets heavily reduced aggro for the same duration.
  • On enemy = If Loki casts it on an enemy, the enemy gets a longlasting Duration-moddable high-aggro Radiation-proc on them (with a Chaos-esque hologram on them, so the enemy looks like Loki), and Loki gets the Disguise-effect on him for the same duration - to enemies it looks like you never swapped in the first place!
• Augment = Safeguard Switch Tangled Switch = Still causes allies to become briefly invulnerable. If used on an enemy or Decoy, a tether will be placed on it for 5/7/9/12 second. This tether immobilizes the main enemy, makes other enemies who get near the tether be latched onto it and dragged closer to the centre AND causes 15/25/35/50% (Strength-moddable, capped at 100%) of all damage taken to be shared among all the tethered enemies (if used on a Decoy, then the Decoy can share its damage taken to enemies, but enemies won't share the damage over to the Decoy!). This tether remains in place for its full duration, even after the switch-target might've died. Max 1 tether can be used at a time. Recasting the ability removes the old tether before placing a new one.
  • Note: The tether is placed BEFORE the teleport-swap, so if you Switch an enemy who is amidst more enemies, they will all be dragged to the swapped location!
    • Note that if using this on a Decoy, the Decoy will have the Tether AND the invulnerability both at once! However, this invulnerability does not prevent the damage-sharing from it! Yummie! :)
      • This ought to make it an actually worthwhile and powerful augment, which synergizes very much in particular with his Decoy and the new effects on Radial Disarm.

Radial Disarm

• The synergy between Decoy and Disarm is nice (i.e. it also casts Disarm from the Decoy's location), would love to see that part added
• Effect changes = Also adds a longlasting debuff on enemies, causing any damage they do to also be dealt to themselves, with a 200/250/300/350% amplification, (Strength-moddable). This works on ALL enemies, including bosses, melee units and anything non-disarmable.

[redkunaz]

On 2020-09-09 at 10:35 PM, (PS4)NoTrollGaming said:

I do hope Loki gets some small changes, I remember when I first started I grinded so hard to get him and I played him for the majority of the game until it became boring

Doesn't help you never see him because you are invisible...