(PSN)DaveTheMadcat Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 I love Warframe, I'll start by saying that. I started with the game back when it launched on PS4 (didn't click for me) and have been playing off an on across PS4, PC, and Xbox ever since, primarily on PS4. I think Warframe has one of the more interesting stories across gaming and sci-fi (aside from Lotus having no agency as a character for the most part) Sadly, 2019 and 2020 were not high points in Warframe for me, at least not in comparison to finally finishing Natah onward in 2018. I am just not the biggest fan of squicky infested and I don't have a dedicated 4-group for Railjack in spite of my best efforts to recruit friends. Hopefully we hear something about that Command Intrinsic soon, amirite? What I have been playing a bunch of has been battle royales. As a genre, I think BR is uniquely adaptable to the setting and technology it's being adapter for. Yes, a majority have been modern military shooters so far but you need look no further than Spellbreak to see how far the model can be stretched. (I look at this from a gameplay design perspective rather than from lore so forgive me if I use shorthand like [plot explanation goes here]) What makes battle royale interesting as a game mode? Fast RPG progression. Like MOBA, BR is built with the idea that players begin with little and through skillful play or dumb luck become more powerful the longer they can stay alive. In many ways these modes can have the ebb and flow of a single player campaign but with an emergent player driven story rather than a specifically designed one So how would you make a Battle Royale in Warframe? Well to start with, there's already a lot of fundamentally solid systems in place: Spoiler Operators - Already highly customizable and generally underused in gameplay, player could drop from their drop ships and for [explanation] reasons lose connection to their warframes on landing, the first stage of play could be Operators working to re-connect to their frames Warframes - god forbid we cut down the mod system but obviously as a competitive mode, tuning would need to be separate from PVE mods. What should not happen is simplification, however. Warframes would represent the middle stage of combat. Looking again to Spellbreak, that game starts you at level 1 and sees you leveling as you enter the progressively shrinking battle area. This could be done with the Frame abilities. This has an interesting gameplay effect in that sometimes you'd be better spec'ing for lower level abilities at the cost of stronger higher tier abilities in order to get an early advantage. Weapons - Warframe has a crap ton of weapons that could be spawned in the map. While it would need balancing it could conceivably be possible for players who own the weapons to configure loadouts for them while unowned weapons would have a basic mod set Vehicles - (Dargyns, K-Drives, Necramechs, Arch-Wings), I don't think these would be great in a first pass at this mode incorporating vehicles from the rest of the game could do wonders with large maps Setting - Warfame has one of the most diverse collection of locations in all of gaming. When looking at the set dressing for a mode like this, Rathuum seems like a good place to build from but maps could be spun out of features from any tileset This is already a lengthy post so I'll stop here for now but I'd love to see discussion about this. I know there's going to be folks who just hate BR games in general and I want to be clear I'm not saying this should be THE FUTURE OF WARFRAME. After 2 years of the game feeling stagnant in terms of what I play it for, I'd love to see more modes with interesting and different play that could grow the game in the future. Please be constructive and polite with your opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TARINunit9 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 No Last time the devs tried to chase a trend like that, it was Rocket League. The result was Lunaro, a game mode you probably haven't even heard of, that's how bad it is Multiply this by the fact Warframe is a game with a very, very vocal "I hate PvP" demographic, and a Warframe battle royale game mode is something the devs have no reason to try and make Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DaveTheMadcat Posted November 4, 2020 Author Share Posted November 4, 2020 9 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said: No Last time the devs tried to chase a trend like that, it was Rocket League. The result was Lunaro, a game mode you probably haven't even heard of, that's how bad it is Multiply this by the fact Warframe is a game with a very, very vocal "I hate PvP" demographic, and a Warframe battle royale game mode is something the devs have no reason to try and make I'd be interested to hear actual reasons rather than "They tried something else and it didn't work. They should never try new things" Please refer to the request for polite and constructive thoughts. If that's too difficult, just don't contribute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THeMooN85 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TARINunit9 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 1 minute ago, (PS4)DaveTheMadcat said: I'd be interested to hear actual reasons rather than "They tried something else and it didn't work. They should never try new things" Please refer to the request for polite and constructive thoughts. If that's too difficult, just don't contribute. I did. The very concept itself is what's flawed, not your list of details and gimmicks DE do their best work when they aren't mindlessly chasing trends. That's why they didn't add a battle royale mode, of ANY kind, back in 2018 when the genre first exploded. And why they certainly won't add one now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DaveTheMadcat Posted November 4, 2020 Author Share Posted November 4, 2020 7 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said: I did. The very concept itself is what's flawed, not your list of details and gimmicks DE do their best work when they aren't mindlessly chasing trends. That's why they didn't add a battle royale mode, of ANY kind, back in 2018 when the genre first exploded. And why they certainly won't add one now Flawed how? I would appreciate if you could come down off your high horse and discuss the gameplay conversation or just leave if you don't mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prexades Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 Suggesting BR with a bit of MOBA sprinkled on top - This must be a troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genitive Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, (PS4)DaveTheMadcat said: They tried something else and it didn't work But that's what happened. PvP is extremely unpopular, neither Lunaro nor any other pvp mode managed to attract enough players to warrant further development, let alone making a brand new mode. In case of Lunaro gameplay was fine, but lack of players, no meaningful rewards, and often lag turned it into a barren wasteland. Other modes aren't that much better, except you can throw any balance out of the window. DE are sooner to remove pvp completely rather than introduce something new. Heck, they have moved some of the pvp-exclusive rewards to nightwave – that's how much people want to play it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VenTheWeeb Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 another Warframe needs x thing/be like *insert any game here* because op played it thread. here we go again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DaveTheMadcat Posted November 4, 2020 Author Share Posted November 4, 2020 9 minutes ago, Prexades said: Suggesting BR with a bit of MOBA sprinkled on top - This must be a troll. I'm really not, lol. I get that it's a departure from a lot of the core PVE grind in Warframe but that's the point. Yes Lunaro was a failure but it was ambitious and I respect DE for trying. I don't expect every thing they add to land perfectly. As with any long lasting game Warframe needs to find ways to stay relevant and more content islands is not the way to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DaveTheMadcat Posted November 4, 2020 Author Share Posted November 4, 2020 8 minutes ago, (NSW)VenTheWeeb said: another Warframe needs x thing/be like *insert any game here* because op played it thread. here we go again Here we go again, someone else who has nothing better to do than be down on ideas. I know this is the internet in 2020 but aren't there other threads for you to go whine on? I'm much more interested in a hypothetical discussion of how this COULD work than hearing a bunch of folks say they don't want the thing. I already know you guys are there and you're not adding anything to the conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TARINunit9 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, (PS4)DaveTheMadcat said: Flawed how? I would appreciate if you could come down off your high horse and discuss the gameplay conversation or just leave if you don't mind. There's a lot of willful ignorance in your assertion that Warframe royale could work DE are simply not good at PvP games. At all. It doesn't get any more complicated or nuanced than that. You look at a list of DE's games -- Epic Pinball, Unreal 1, darkSector, Bioshock 1's PS3 port, Darkness 2 -- and you see that they only have good experience in PvE games. Their highest profile PvP game was Bioshock 2, a game whose multiplayer everyone hated. Developing Warframe has not changed this dichotomy at all. DE simply do not make good PvP games, especially not PvP games that are transparent attempts to cash in on trends. Warframe royale would be a terrible idea at its very core Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DaveTheMadcat Posted November 4, 2020 Author Share Posted November 4, 2020 7 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said: There's a lot of willful ignorance in your assertion that Warframe royale could work DE are simply not good at PvP games. At all. It doesn't get any more complicated or nuanced than that. You look at a list of DE's games -- Epic Pinball, Unreal 1, darkSector, Bioshock 1's PS3 port, Darkness 2 -- and you see that they only have good experience in PvE games. Their highest profile PvP game was Bioshock 2, a game whose multiplayer everyone hated. Developing Warframe has not changed this dichotomy at all. DE simply do not make good PvP games, especially not PvP games that are transparent attempts to cash in on trends. Warframe royale would be a terrible idea at its very core DE are simply not good at PVP games? Who is being willfully ignorant? Digital Extremes made Unreal Tournament, not Unreal 1. You're doing a lot of speaking definitively with your own opinions as if they are facts. I know plenty who enjoyed the Bioshock 2 multiplayer. And I'm not asserting anything. I'm trying to get a discussion going about how such a thing could work. Which you clearly have no interest in participating in. Why are you still here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TARINunit9 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 Just now, (PS4)DaveTheMadcat said: Digital Extremes made Unreal Tournament, not Unreal 1 No, DE made Unreal 1. By the time Unreal Tournament came out Epic Games had acquired the franchise 2 minutes ago, (PS4)DaveTheMadcat said: I know plenty who enjoyed the Bioshock 2 multiplayer. Yeah, for the story, not the PvP gameplay. Basically everyone I've heard talk about Bioshock 2 refuses to defend the gameplay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FRTE_Ret5o Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 Not again, not this again. I dont think that warframe has the necessity of adding another PvP, conclave is not popular and for a reason, this game is based on a co-op. Not as battle royale games, that base their whole game on PvP. Plus the sistem of pvp is individual hosting, and damn, sometimes is laggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--F--NerevarCM Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said: No, DE made Unreal 1. By the time Unreal Tournament came out Epic Games had acquired the franchise + to that, DE probably made the weapons, not the PvP mechanics. Because Steve said he had the idea for the ASMD Shock Rifle and the Plasma Gun. This shows DE is really good at making weapons sound, look and play cool, but they're not that good at making PvP mechanics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VenTheWeeb Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, (PS4)DaveTheMadcat said: Here we go again, someone else who has nothing better to do than be down on ideas. I know this is the internet in 2020 but aren't there other threads for you to go whine on? I'm much more interested in a hypothetical discussion of how this COULD work than hearing a bunch of folks say they don't want the thing. I already know you guys are there and you're not adding anything to the conversation. I mean the "whiners" do have a point. Warframe is a Looter Shooter and most of the threads like this one want something unrelated to Looter Shooters in Warframe. However I will give you points for actually saying how it could fit into Warframe rather than just saying It needs x thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General-Pacman Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 This has been discussed ad nauseam for a very, very long time. This will simply not happen, Warframe is not a game designed to have a good PvP experience, and the overwhelming majority of the playerbase does not want o does not care about PvP, so there is no actual incentive for DE to work on it. It's as simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiritTeA Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 I will start with subjective - BR is same crap as MOBA for very ... Special people... Seriously all the stupidest players in all games I’ve seen are in those 2 game genres. Not offending you or anyone who like it here. Warframe has much bigger minimum IQ floor needed for playing, so ... It won’t attract general BR audience into Warframe anyway, and most players who do like BR and play Warframe are vomiting only when thinking about cOnCl@Ve. PvP won’t be good in this game until DE make PvP with separate mobility similar to Destiny at least, or UT with little steroids . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DaveTheMadcat Posted November 4, 2020 Author Share Posted November 4, 2020 Okay. I'm going to try to be as clear about this as I possibly can since is seems like there's some folks having difficulty reading. I'm not attacking your precious Warframe as it exists now. I think development on the game should continue as it is. I'm not even talking about a real idea that's been discussed by the devs. But what's the harm in trying something new and killing it if it doesn't take off? Lunaro isn't hurting anyone. 23 minutes ago, Genitive said: But that's what happened. PvP is extremely unpopular, neither Lunaro nor any other pvp mode managed to attract enough players to warrant further development, let alone making a brand new mode. In case of Lunaro gameplay was fine, but lack of players, no meaningful rewards, and often lag turned it into a barren wasteland. Other modes aren't that much better, except you can throw any balance out of the window. DE are sooner to remove pvp completely rather than introduce something new. Heck, they have moved some of the pvp-exclusive rewards to nightwave – that's how much people want to play it. Big thanks to Genitive for actually answering the conversation. I see you weren't a fan and in particular not having rewards that incentivize a mode will kill it fast unless it's truly spectacular. Now that hopefully we're back to remembering that this is all in hypotheticals can we also stop assuming that DE would half ass this? DE doesn't half ass anything to do with Warframe. If they were to try something like this I would fully expect them to take their time and cut dozens if not hundreds of prototypes. I hear aloe is good for bum rash, btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaytanic93 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 14 minutes ago, (PS4)DaveTheMadcat said: I know this is the internet in 2020 but aren't there other threads for you to go whine on? I'm much more interested in a hypothetical discussion of how this COULD work than hearing a bunch of folks say they don't want the thing. I already know you guys are there and you're not adding anything to the conversation. Whether something has the potential to make it into the game at all is literally part of the point of bringing up an idea in the forums. If we are to stay on hypothetical details of things that won't actually happen, then we might as well start discussing how would the Warframe dating sim gamemode be implemented, how would it work? Whether it's battle royale or dating sim, you are free to make whatever suggestion you want. But you can't demand people to leave your thread because they don't agree with you, if you want an echo chamber, you can discuss the topic with your close friends on discord. Now you are calling people butthurt... come on, you should know that is a recipe for derailment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DaveTheMadcat Posted November 4, 2020 Author Share Posted November 4, 2020 7 minutes ago, Slaytanic93 said: Whether something has the potential to make it into the game at all is literally part of the point of bringing up an idea in the forums. If we are to stay on hypothetical details of things that won't actually happen, then we might as well start discussing how would the Warframe dating sim gamemode be implemented, how would it work? Whether it's battle royale or dating sim, you are free to make whatever suggestion you want. But you can't demand people to leave your thread because they don't agree with you, if you want an echo chamber, you can discuss the topic with your close friends on discord. Now you are calling people butthurt... come on, you should know that is a recipe for derailment... You're totally correct. It's clear no one wants to actually discuss the idea because folks are hung up over it and I'm giving up on having this conversation here. At this point anyone who might actually want to discuss this in good faith has to wade through a bunch of crap from everyone up to this point that isn't constructive in the slightest. Thread can be locked and closed for all I care. PS: Warframe dating sim mode sounds like a lot of fun, tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)The Neko Otaku Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 If you want pointless trend chasing go to a Hi-rez game they can't be original to save their life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrivaMain Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 We don’t accept PvP here. DE tried with Conclave, look at how that turned out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoicon Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 While I'm not outright opposed to the idea of PvP in Warframe, and even then there are a crapton of caveats; a Battle Royale mode is about the furthest thing DE should add. Not if they want to repopulate PvP, less so if they want a fun PvP mode. Still, I feel like I'm going to have to be a little bit more specific than that. Quote spoilers No. Focus schools and amp construction already create far too big a difference for any sort of PvP involving operators being balanced in any way. Add Arcanes to that equation, and everything gets that much more unbalanced. The last thing you want for a PvP mode is to grind for years however long it takes to build a half-decent amp, plus however long it takes to get a decent number of perks into focus schools. Mind you, both of those things are their own can of worms. Now, given the previous point: Quote Warframes - [...] You've immediately reduced the amount of viable frames for this mode to, maybe, a handful. There aren't that many that have reliable 1st and 2nd abilities, while also having survivability and reliable 3rd and 4th abilities. Less so considering the changes made for each ability on a PvP framework. And while the idea of "spec'ing for 1st and 2nd for an advantage early on" is very cute, I don't see how that would happen. You talk about leveling up, cutting out mods, and the afforementioned "spec'ing", but I can't find any explanation whatsoever as to how that would work. Quote Weapons - [...] It doesn't matter how many weapons WF has, because in PvP, what you're looking for is very simple. "What can I get that deals a solid amount of damage per shot, has good ammo economy, and allows me to hit a very fast moving object while not hampering my mobility". Any weapon that fails to do at least three of those four is dead in the water. In other words, watch the winning players be the ones that got to the Amprex/Ignis/Phage/Bramma/Acceltra/Trumna the fastest. Among a few more. Quote Vehicles - [...] And this is where the great heelturn happens, while I still completely disagree with what you're saying: Vehicles are, essentially, the only way PvP in WF could work. Necramech conclave, K-Drive races, Archwing dogfights... Obviously Archgun rivens would have to be forbidden, but if you want to talk about PvP in any aspect, you have to start by talking about vehicle PvP. If only for the reason that most players are going to be in the closest thing to a level playing field you can get in WF PvP. As for them being used in open areas, no. The one case where I'd be permissive of that is Archwing dogfights. Primarily because you really can't have it any other way. And even if Vehicular PvP would be a fine idea by my standards, the caveats I mentioned in the first paragraph would still apply. But those are not the topic, so: TL;DR: No. It wouldn't work. Certainly not how you present it. Less so considering that you're not showing anything that Warframe's Conclave doesn't already have/hasn't already done. And I feel like the failure of Conclave's current iteration is proof enough that those things don't work. Addendum: Quote Warframe dating sim mode sounds like a lot of fun I do agree with this. It'd be nice if the playerbase could do the f████ing for once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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